- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[Pharo 7.0-dev] Build #705: 21618-Saving-code-as-file-tree-is-broken

by ci-pharo-ci-jenkins2＠inria.fr

There is a new Pharo build available! The status of the build #705 was: FAILURE. The Pull Request #1132 was integrated: "21618-Saving-code-as-file-tree-is-broken" Pull request url: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/1132 Issue Url: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/21618 Build Url: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/job/Test%20pending%20pull%20request%2…

March 20, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] Experiment: New Download page based on Pharo Launcher

by CÃ©drick BÃ©ler

> > > >> On 16 Mar 2018, at 16:41, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> but thing is: default download should be the launcher. >> because this is the ânewbie-friendlyâ approach. >> >> All the rest can be in under a link (or a subtitle, doesnât matters). > > It think that even that is a mistake: To give ânewbiesâ a different download > than the âpeople that know better" is *wrong*. > > Marcus What about having normal/advance mode to shore more or less images ? Official bistro + documentation/book images ? Then the whole stuff. Cheers, CÃ©drick

March 20, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] Experiment: New Download page based on Pharo Launcher

by CÃ©drick BÃ©ler

CLI is cool too but it quickly becomes a mess for me ^^ Just loving the launcher on the Macâ¦ +100 for me to push it. Still, the CLI should be available and probably the better way to launch one specific image. My 2 cents, CÃ©drick

March 20, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] Experiment: New Download page based on Pharo Launcher

by Guillermo Polito

If the launcher had a command line interface, I'd use it all the time :) On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 10:15 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Hi, > > > I'm really glad PharoLauncher has been promoted to the download page, > but it seems some people want to push PharoLauncher to *be* Pharo. > To me this seems a poor strategy. > > The README file in the PharoLauncher zip downloads says... > "Pharo 1.1-2018.01.16 This distribution was built January 16, 2018." > > This seems strange to me and highly likely to confuse newcomers. > Pharo 1.1 more than a few years old. How can something built in 2018 be > named "Pharo 1.1" ? > > And if PharoLauncher is instead published as Pharo 7, then it seems > strange to use it to run Pharo 5 images and later Pharo 8 images. > Why not have the Downloads page just say "The recommended way to manage > Pharo downloads is with PharoLauncher" > and allow PharoLauncher to exist as a separate entity. This would be > similar similar to those applications where you download > an initial 500kB installer, which then grabs the other 100MB from the net > to complete the install. > > Also, when maybe one day we can use Pharo as a command line shell, how > will that relate to PharoLauncher being presented "as" Pharo. > > > > What is clear is that people use many images anyway. And the more machines > get bigger, this will happen even more. > > So any download can only be âthe VM + a Template imageâ. > => when you just start âPharoâ it starts the template (read only) > => drag an image (or double click) -> opens that image. > > To make that work for real we would need to have one release per version > (Pharo6, Pharo7, Pharo8) that you installâ¦ > > The launcher is a similar scheme that I think could be even better, it > adds: > > - easy find images online > - manage your images (you do not need to use it, you can just use the UI > of your OS instead, too). > - manage VMs in addition. > - which means that it is just one download that people need to install to > be able to run all old images, too. > > So I think if can be quite niceâ¦ it needs some iterations > > - simplify the UI so people know what todo when they see it the first time > - make sure it works everywhere > - Sign it so installation is easier > - We need something that the images that end up on disk do not have the > bit set that make drag-n-drop fail. > - integrate command line: There should be a menu to write scripts to > /usr/local/bin to run pharo images easily > - Longterm: we need 1-file imagesâ¦ a container that has the image itself + > auxiliary stuff on âdiskâ but that is one file. > > So for me this is a bit like docker: to use docker, you install docker on > the mac. There is one way, it works. > > Marcus > > > > > > > > -- Guille Polito Research Engineer Centre de Recherche en Informatique, Signal et Automatique de Lille CRIStAL - UMR 9189 French National Center for Scientific Research - *http://www.cnrs.fr <http://www.cnrs.fr>* *Web:* *http://guillep.github.io* <http://guillep.github.io> *Phone: *+33 06 52 70 66 13

March 20, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] Experiment: New Download page based on Pharo Launcher

by Marcus Denker

Hi, > > I'm really glad PharoLauncher has been promoted to the download page, > but it seems some people want to push PharoLauncher to *be* Pharo. > To me this seems a poor strategy. > > The README file in the PharoLauncher zip downloads says... > "Pharo 1.1-2018.01.16 This distribution was built January 16, 2018." > > This seems strange to me and highly likely to confuse newcomers. > Pharo 1.1 more than a few years old. How can something built in 2018 be named "Pharo 1.1" ? > > And if PharoLauncher is instead published as Pharo 7, then it seems strange to use it to run Pharo 5 images and later Pharo 8 images. > Why not have the Downloads page just say "The recommended way to manage Pharo downloads is with PharoLauncher" > and allow PharoLauncher to exist as a separate entity. This would be similar similar to those applications where you download > an initial 500kB installer, which then grabs the other 100MB from the net to complete the install. > > Also, when maybe one day we can use Pharo as a command line shell, how will that relate to PharoLauncher being presented "as" Pharo. > > What is clear is that people use many images anyway. And the more machines get bigger, this will happen even more. So any download can only be âthe VM + a Template imageâ. => when you just start âPharoâ it starts the template (read only) => drag an image (or double click) -> opens that image. To make that work for real we would need to have one release per version (Pharo6, Pharo7, Pharo8) that you installâ¦ The launcher is a similar scheme that I think could be even better, it adds: - easy find images online - manage your images (you do not need to use it, you can just use the UI of your OS instead, too). - manage VMs in addition. - which means that it is just one download that people need to install to be able to run all old images, too. So I think if can be quite niceâ¦ it needs some iterations - simplify the UI so people know what todo when they see it the first time - make sure it works everywhere - Sign it so installation is easier - We need something that the images that end up on disk do not have the bit set that make drag-n-drop fail. - integrate command line: There should be a menu to write scripts to /usr/local/bin to run pharo images easily - Longterm: we need 1-file imagesâ¦ a container that has the image itself + auxiliary stuff on âdiskâ but that is one file. So for me this is a bit like docker: to use docker, you install docker on the mac. There is one way, it works. Marcus

March 20, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] New Files in Pharo - Migration Guide, How To's and examples

by Guillermo Polito

Yes, it would be good to have those kind of methods. But there are some other constraints to have into account :) - introducing these without introducing duplications is right now complicated because streams do not share a hierarchy - having a common hierarchy is maybe complicated: ZnStreams should for the moment be backwards compatible with Pharo>4? - using traits to avoid duplications would be good, but for now traits are forbidden from kernel packages (otherwise we need to add traits in the kernel, + trait support in the class builder, runtime,... and the image will grow MBs and the build time will grow too) About the naming, I'm for - #buffered / #bufferedWithBufferSize: size - #encoded / #utf8Encoded / #encodedAs: encoding - #usingCr / #usingLf / #usingCrLf / #usingPlatformLineEndingConvention / #usingLineConvention: aConvention On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 9:53 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > 2018-03-19 17:42 GMT-03:00 Nicolas Cellier <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice@ > gmail.com>: > > 2018-03-19 21:21 GMT+01:00 Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com>: > >> > >> 2018-03-19 20:39 GMT+01:00 Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com>: > >>> > >>> 2018-03-19 16:32 GMT-03:00 Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com>: > > >>> > aStream buffered. > >>> I'd only change this one, to #beBuffered. > > >> But #be sounds like it modifies receiver. > >> But idea is same as #reversed or #sorted for collections. > > -1 for beBuffered, it's not about adding states to the stream. > > As Denis said, it's a transform producing a new stream. > > > I didn't understand it was returning a transformed instance, I > actually thought it was the opposite, so if that is the case then > Denis' suggested selectors are fine. > > Thanks for the clarification. > > Esteban A. Maringolo > > -- Guille Polito Research Engineer Centre de Recherche en Informatique, Signal et Automatique de Lille CRIStAL - UMR 9189 French National Center for Scientific Research - *http://www.cnrs.fr <http://www.cnrs.fr>* *Web:* *http://guillep.github.io* <http://guillep.github.io> *Phone: *+33 06 52 70 66 13

March 20, 2018

[Pharo 7] Help needed reviewing Pull requests

by Marcus Denker

Hello, we need more people helping to review and tests Pull Requests. https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pulls <https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pulls> Especially, it is very important to add a note if you think that something should be merged. Even if it is clear from the context. We need an explicit âthis is good to integrateâ. Marcus

March 20, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] Experiment: New Download page based on Pharo Launcher

by Marcus Denker

> On 16 Mar 2018, at 16:41, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > but thing is: default download should be the launcher. > because this is the ânewbie-friendlyâ approach. > > All the rest can be in under a link (or a subtitle, doesnât matters). It think that even that is a mistake: To give ânewbiesâ a different download than the âpeople that know better" is *wrong*. Marcus

March 20, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] Experiment: New Download page based on Pharo Launcher

by CÃ©drick BÃ©ler

> > > On Sat, Mar 17, 2018 at 1:26 PM, CÃ©drick BÃ©ler <cdrick65(a)gmail.com <mailto:cdrick65@gmail.com>> wrote: > Little feedback too. > > I was surprised by the new download as some students had to install on windowsâ¦ hopefully, I had old win versions but it has disturbed me :) > Still handy and straightforward to just put an image on the VM. > > Butâ¦this being said, I just tried on Mac and this works nicely and this is true that launcher makes the management of image clearer and easier.. > I donât know about windows but I have to care about as 98% of students uses Pharo on windows... > > I was thinking of some adjustments: > 1) maybe a default/advanced mode on the launcher to show only, as default, Mooc/PBE5/Official distributions. > > > did you see that the Launcher already includes this? > There is a Pharo Mooc item. Yes but I was more thinking about hiding most of elements of the tree, especially Jenkins. To me a newcomer only need to see (at first) official distributions + MOOC + PBE5. I canât find the official PBE5 image. It doesnât seem to be the raw Pharo5 ? If not present, is it possible to add it ? I think this is important (if doc cannot be updated) to keep the proper book related images. > > > 2) a proper icon name to display in OSâs task bars. > When several image are opened, they should have different icons, at least different name when hovering, and not only Pharo. > > The PharoLauncher should be named Pharo Launcher :). > Now we should get a nice icon. Yes :) I would go for a circle containing three circles (circle being the pharo logo like the quick pic hack below) :) => image all the way downsâ¦ > > <PastedGraphic-4.png> > > A more general feedback is about cloud drive OSâs (iCloud Drive, Dropbox, â¦). > I have 3 macâs (pro and personal). I put often files in a directory that are synchronized across these devices. > - sometimes I get a message that an image are in different states > - sync image might be long (+changes) depending on network conditions > > I think the question is important as the launcher download in the Document folder (OSX) and this directory is synchronized by default. > What do you think about such common situation ? What are your common practices ? > - lets says on two Macs and works on both > - or I use a dropbox folder > > => cloud drive are cool and my impression is that we could take a better advantage of them for data that could be shared between (personal) images (Play-Cache ? Packages-cache ? â¦ ) > ==> would it be possible to have several files for one image (chunked over time so only the last chunk is modified and then less file would be synchronized) - (I donât know at all if possible) ? > ==> same for changesâ¦ but this one should be easier I think. > > => I also find longer to share pharo system the old ways - zipping (or not) via USB - I think git integration produces a large number of files that relies slows down system copy paste (if only image this is ok)â¦ No idea about that ? I finally resolved to change the default image and VM dirâ¦ Documents is syncing on Macs, and when your connection is slowâ¦ thatâs quite problematics (especially when you do image experiments like trying to graphs more than 2Million objects ^^). I finally got my space low warning (I may retry on a better computer with a 64 bits image) ^^ Side note: ok image grows, but the default is about 200MB in memory for me (Launcher is 115MB here)â¦ when you see safari tab being always more Thant 200MB (and this time I have only one opened tab which is rare)â¦ Safari is not an exception, I find Pharo memory related concern still very reasonable (+ it will improve once the bootstrap is production ready). Cheers, CÃ©drick

March 20, 2018

Re: [Pharo-dev] Released versions in Pharo Bootstrap

by Stephan Eggermont

Cyril Ferlicot D. <cyril.ferlicot(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Le 19/03/2018 Ã 18:49, Stephan Eggermont a Ã©crit : >> Then why bother releasing? >> > > Hi, > > For people using Pharo 7 to not get the same bugs for more than 1 year, > to get the new functionalities and to be able to detect new bugs > introduced in releases. Forgive me for sounding like a broken record. How exactly is this style of releasing going to help with these points? Stephan

March 20, 2018