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Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Big Smallapack progress on Squeak/Pharo

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I do not know :) they are inside a room without windows and internet ! hacking ectatcically :) Stef On Aug 23, 2011, at 10:06 PM, Nicolas Cellier wrote: > 2011/8/23 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >> BTW igor and henrik are coding like nuts floating point support with nativeboost. No need to have a float plugin. >> They seems to have fun like kids with a cool toy :). >> >> Stef >> > > Cool, they might add missing libm functions but also control float > rounding modes, trap exceptions and so on... > > Nicolas > >> On Aug 23, 2011, at 9:27 PM, Nicolas Cellier wrote: >> >>> Hurrah! After 5 years of inaction with eyes turned toward heavens, >>> brain waiting for a miraculous enlightening, I suddenly had the >>> illumination and solved most of may Smallapack problems in Squeak! >>> See http://smallissimo.blogspot.com/2011/08/smallapack-progress-on-squeak.html >>> This post shall interest anyone using or wanting to use FFI. Unless >>> maybe I was the last idiot not knowing how to ;) >>> This information shall be written in FFI classes comment, in the WIKI >>> and every place pretending to inform the poor unaware users like me. >>> >>> Nicolas >>> >> >> >> >

Aug. 23, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Some bugs

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Aug 23, 2011, at 10:01 PM, Nicolas Cellier wrote: > Hi Michael, I did in recent past and can renew help with 4) which is > an immediate cheap solution compared to 5), but as you have seen in 2) > the solution is not universal. But Squeak has exactly the same problem that pharo to this respect I tried in 43-11481 > On thing to remember with Decompiler, is that it sounds like a visitor > pattern, but some very important features are sometimes implemented on > the node side! > This does not help understanding the too much complicated code (simple > browsing is void, you often need debugging). > > Nicolas > > 2011/8/23 Michael Roberts <mike(a)mjr104.co.uk>: >> I think for the debugger, we all live with the bugs. I mean, we (I) >> unfortunately made the situation worse with the introduction of the >> closures around 1.0/1.1 and it has never been fixed. It is hard to fix >> too, this stuff is not simple. I contacted a few people quietly maybe >> a year ago to see if we all lived with it, because a few times i >> posted about the debugger and there was not a lot of response. I >> wondered if no one *actually* programmed in pharo. but no, we become >> masters of interpreting the debugger highlight... >> >> What can we do- >> 1) I have contacted Eliot (again). Historically he said it was fixed >> (or better) in teleplace images but I need him to send us any patches. >> He has also been helpful and highlighted the areas that need work like >> the decompiler and how we could write some tests to protect against >> unintended change >> >> 2) I have checked a recent Squeak, and it is bust there too. >> >> 3) I am writing some test cases. So that we can regression test the >> debugger highlighting, and building an analyser class (@esug) to make >> it easier to dig into the debugger. >> >> 4) carefully check Squeak class versions for merging changes into >> Pharo. this is not easy. >> >> 5) We have to rebuild the debugger model based on the new compiler / >> decompiler machinery. (This is a long term Pharo goal) >> >> I am just chipping away at the analysis, and i will share my code when >> i have something on the tracker. >> >> Also would be great in a separate thread if someone could explain to >> me the simulation guard primitive. i.e you can not step over process >> creation, but you can halt after it e.g. >> >> cheers, >> Mike >> >> >

Aug. 23, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] little uMorphic progress

by Nicolas Cellier

Sounds a lot like a 2Â¢ Spoon imprinting... Nicolas 2011/8/23 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: > georgous :) > (probably geek Smalltalk style) > > >> I cheated ;-) >> >> I started with a script (export.st) that takes content of Core >> packages that are not present in the Gofer image and exports a long >> file containing definitions of classes and traits (in safe order) and >> all replaces original methods with proxy methods that when called load >> original source code, log method name and restart yourself. It is very >> similar to messages tracking but without VM support. >> >> Then I used it for modified initCore script so I got list of messages >> that are necessary for initialization and function of Morphic doing >> this tasks. Then I took this list of messages, created a changeset >> containing it and exported it. >> >> Finally I manually checked the Undeclared and unimplemented calls. It >> is almost the same way that I used for creation of MinimalMorphic >> image in past. >> >> Cheers, >> -- Pavel >> >> On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 9:47 PM, Lukas Renggli <renggli(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> Very cool. I wonder how you created that load script? >>> >>> Lukas >>> >>> On 23 August 2011 18:58, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>>> Thanks. I would love to have a cleaner morphic kernel :) >>>> But it will take time. >>>> >>>> Stef >>>> >>>> On Aug 23, 2011, at 3:31 PM, Pavel Krivanek wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> uMorphic is an experimental image based on Pharo Kernel (+Gofer) that >>>>> contains only core of Morphic functionality. It has no windows or >>>>> fonts, menus nor halos support, it can only open a basic Morph in the >>>>> world and drag it with mouse. The purpose of this image is to provide >>>>> information for Morphic packages reorganization. >>>>> >>>>> Now the basic cleaning was processed on this package so when it is >>>>> loaded to basic gofer image, no new Undeclared nor unimplemented >>>>> messages are added! :-) So it should be quite stable too. >>>>> >>>>> It has 2,9 MB and it modifies behavior of 32 methods. >>>>> >>>>> You may download and try it here: >>>>> http://windmap.cz/playground/trash/uMorphic.zip >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> -- Pavel >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Lukas Renggli >>> www.lukas-renggli.ch >>> >>> >> <proxy.zip> > > >

Aug. 23, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Big Smallapack progress on Squeak/Pharo

by Nicolas Cellier

2011/8/23 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: > BTW igor and henrik are coding like nuts floating point support with nativeboost. No need to have a float plugin. > They seems to have fun like kids with a cool toy :). > > Stef > Cool, they might add missing libm functions but also control float rounding modes, trap exceptions and so on... Nicolas > On Aug 23, 2011, at 9:27 PM, Nicolas Cellier wrote: > >> Hurrah! After 5 years of inaction with eyes turned toward heavens, >> brain waiting for a miraculous enlightening, I suddenly had the >> illumination and solved most of may Smallapack problems in Squeak! >> See http://smallissimo.blogspot.com/2011/08/smallapack-progress-on-squeak.html >> This post shall interest anyone using or wanting to use FFI. Unless >> maybe I was the last idiot not knowing how to ;) >> This information shall be written in FFI classes comment, in the WIKI >> and every place pretending to inform the poor unaware users like me. >> >> Nicolas >> > > >

Aug. 23, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Big Smallapack progress on Squeak/Pharo

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

BTW igor and henrik are coding like nuts floating point support with nativeboost. No need to have a float plugin. They seems to have fun like kids with a cool toy :). Stef On Aug 23, 2011, at 9:27 PM, Nicolas Cellier wrote: > Hurrah! After 5 years of inaction with eyes turned toward heavens, > brain waiting for a miraculous enlightening, I suddenly had the > illumination and solved most of may Smallapack problems in Squeak! > See http://smallissimo.blogspot.com/2011/08/smallapack-progress-on-squeak.html > This post shall interest anyone using or wanting to use FFI. Unless > maybe I was the last idiot not knowing how to ;) > This information shall be written in FFI classes comment, in the WIKI > and every place pretending to inform the poor unaware users like me. > > Nicolas >

Aug. 23, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Some bugs

by Nicolas Cellier

Hi Michael, I did in recent past and can renew help with 4) which is an immediate cheap solution compared to 5), but as you have seen in 2) the solution is not universal. On thing to remember with Decompiler, is that it sounds like a visitor pattern, but some very important features are sometimes implemented on the node side! This does not help understanding the too much complicated code (simple browsing is void, you often need debugging). Nicolas 2011/8/23 Michael Roberts <mike(a)mjr104.co.uk>: > I think for the debugger, we all live with the bugs. I mean, we (I) > unfortunately made the situation worse with the introduction of the > closures around 1.0/1.1 and it has never been fixed. It is hard to fix > too, this stuff is not simple. Â I contacted a few people quietly maybe > a year ago to see if we all lived with it, because a few times i > posted about the debugger and there was not a lot of response. Â I > wondered if no one *actually* programmed in pharo. but no, we become > masters of interpreting the debugger highlight... > > What can we do- > 1) I have contacted Eliot (again). Historically he said it was fixed > (or better) in teleplace images but I need him to send us any patches. > He has also been helpful and highlighted the areas that need work like > the decompiler and how we could write some tests to protect against > unintended change > > 2) I have checked a recent Squeak, and it is bust there too. > > 3) I am writing some test cases. So that we can regression test the > debugger highlighting, and building an analyser class (@esug) to make > it easier to dig into the debugger. > > 4) carefully check Squeak class versions for merging changes into > Pharo. this is not easy. > > 5) We have to rebuild the debugger model based on the new compiler / > decompiler machinery. (This is a long term Pharo goal) > > I am just chipping away at the analysis, and i will share my code when > i have something on the tracker. > > Also would be great in a separate thread if someone could explain to > me the simulation guard primitive. i.e you can not step over process > creation, but you can halt after it e.g. > > cheers, > Mike > >

Aug. 23, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] little uMorphic progress

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

georgous :) (probably geek Smalltalk style) > I cheated ;-) > > I started with a script (export.st) that takes content of Core > packages that are not present in the Gofer image and exports a long > file containing definitions of classes and traits (in safe order) and > all replaces original methods with proxy methods that when called load > original source code, log method name and restart yourself. It is very > similar to messages tracking but without VM support. > > Then I used it for modified initCore script so I got list of messages > that are necessary for initialization and function of Morphic doing > this tasks. Then I took this list of messages, created a changeset > containing it and exported it. > > Finally I manually checked the Undeclared and unimplemented calls. It > is almost the same way that I used for creation of MinimalMorphic > image in past. > > Cheers, > -- Pavel > > On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 9:47 PM, Lukas Renggli <renggli(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Very cool. I wonder how you created that load script? >> >> Lukas >> >> On 23 August 2011 18:58, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>> Thanks. I would love to have a cleaner morphic kernel :) >>> But it will take time. >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> On Aug 23, 2011, at 3:31 PM, Pavel Krivanek wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> uMorphic is an experimental image based on Pharo Kernel (+Gofer) that >>>> contains only core of Morphic functionality. It has no windows or >>>> fonts, menus nor halos support, it can only open a basic Morph in the >>>> world and drag it with mouse. The purpose of this image is to provide >>>> information for Morphic packages reorganization. >>>> >>>> Now the basic cleaning was processed on this package so when it is >>>> loaded to basic gofer image, no new Undeclared nor unimplemented >>>> messages are added! :-) So it should be quite stable too. >>>> >>>> It has 2,9 MB and it modifies behavior of 32 methods. >>>> >>>> You may download and try it here: >>>> http://windmap.cz/playground/trash/uMorphic.zip >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> -- Pavel >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Lukas Renggli >> www.lukas-renggli.ch >> >> > <proxy.zip>

Aug. 23, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Big Smallapack progress on Squeak/Pharo

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Kind of a sacred day then :) http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=184608 Stef On Aug 23, 2011, at 9:27 PM, Nicolas Cellier wrote: > Hurrah! After 5 years of inaction with eyes turned toward heavens, > brain waiting for a miraculous enlightening, I suddenly had the > illumination and solved most of may Smallapack problems in Squeak! > See http://smallissimo.blogspot.com/2011/08/smallapack-progress-on-squeak.html > This post shall interest anyone using or wanting to use FFI. Unless > maybe I was the last idiot not knowing how to ;) well we are quite a bunch of them here. > This information shall be written in FFI classes comment, in the WIKI > and every place pretending to inform the poor unaware users like me. > > Nicolas >

Aug. 23, 2011

[Pharo-project] FW: little uMorphic progress

by Edgar J. De Cleene

------ Forwarded Message > From: Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> > Reply-To: <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> > Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 16:31:41 +0200 > To: Pharo Development <pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> > Subject: [Pharo-project] little uMorphic progress > > Hi, > > uMorphic is an experimental image based on Pharo Kernel (+Gofer) that > contains only core of Morphic functionality. It has no windows or > fonts, menus nor halos support, it can only open a basic Morph in the > world and drag it with mouse. The purpose of this image is to provide > information for Morphic packages reorganization. > > Now the basic cleaning was processed on this package so when it is > loaded to basic gofer image, no new Undeclared nor unimplemented > messages are added! :-) So it should be quite stable too. > > It has 2,9 MB and it modifies behavior of 32 methods. > > You may download and try it here: > http://windmap.cz/playground/trash/uMorphic.zip > > Cheers, > -- Pavel > ------ End of Forwarded Message Y funciona en Mac con Squeak 4.2.5beta1U pero no con las VM Cog. GrandisimoÂ Pavel, ahora espero aprender como hacer crecer esta imagen And it works on Mac with 4.2.5beta1U Squeak VM but not with Cog. Pavel great, now I hope to learn how to grow this image Edgar

Aug. 23, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] little uMorphic progress

by Pavel Krivanek

I cheated ;-) I started with a script (export.st) that takes content of Core packages that are not present in the Gofer image and exports a long file containing definitions of classes and traits (in safe order) and all replaces original methods with proxy methods that when called load original source code, log method name and restart yourself. It is very similar to messages tracking but without VM support. Then I used it for modified initCore script so I got list of messages that are necessary for initialization and function of Morphic doing this tasks. Then I took this list of messages, created a changeset containing it and exported it. Finally I manually checked the Undeclared and unimplemented calls. It is almost the same way that I used for creation of MinimalMorphic image in past. Cheers, -- Pavel On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 9:47 PM, Lukas Renggli <renggli(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Very cool. I wonder how you created that load script? > > Lukas > > On 23 August 2011 18:58, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> Thanks. I would love to have a cleaner morphic kernel :) >> But it will take time. >> >> Stef >> >> On Aug 23, 2011, at 3:31 PM, Pavel Krivanek wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> uMorphic is an experimental image based on Pharo Kernel (+Gofer) that >>> contains only core of Morphic functionality. It has no windows or >>> fonts, menus nor halos support, it can only open a basic Morph in the >>> world and drag it with mouse. The purpose of this image is to provide >>> information for Morphic packages reorganization. >>> >>> Now the basic cleaning was processed on this package so when it is >>> loaded to basic gofer image, no new Undeclared nor unimplemented >>> messages are added! :-) So it should be quite stable too. >>> >>> It has 2,9 MB and it modifies behavior of 32 methods. >>> >>> You may download and try it here: >>> http://windmap.cz/playground/trash/uMorphic.zip >>> >>> Cheers, >>> -- Pavel >>> >> >> >> > > > > -- > Lukas Renggli > www.lukas-renggli.ch > >

Aug. 23, 2011