- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] MorphLayout

by Camillo Bruni

perfect :) thanks On 2011-08-30, at 12:44, Gary Chambers wrote: > The standard TableLayout can do this using the #wrapDirection property, e.g.: > > |builder| > builder := UITheme builder. > (builder newRow: { > Morph new color: Color red. > Morph new color: Color yellow. > Morph new color: Color green. > Morph new color: Color blue. > Morph new color: Color orange}) > cellInset: 10; > wrapDirection: #topToBottom; > openInWindow > > Regards, Gary > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Camillo Bruni" <camillo.bruni(a)inria.fr> > To: "Pharo Development" <pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> > Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 10:57 AM > Subject: [Pharo-project] MorphLayout > > > Hi, > > I am looking for a sort of FlowLayout which works the same way usually text is handled: > All submorphs are put on a single line and wrapped when the border is hit. > > Is there already a layout which does this? >

Aug. 30, 2011

[Pharo-project] Omnibrowser in 1.4

by Torsten Bergmann

Sean P. DeNigris wrote: >I ultimately want a system that is clean and beautiful down >as close to the metal as possible. >... >once the necessary pain is done, I think many will step up and >produce amazing things, but not if the cleaning and restructuring stops. +1000 We have to dig in the dirt in the basement until we can say we have a stable ground floor for nice rooms in the upper floors. But still we live in this home while we do all this! On the other side we cry to keep the comfort of our home (tools/compatibility). This is a conflict. Dont know if we have the time/resources to do all this. Working on the top floors without a stable ground doesnt make sense to me (since our home can easily crash and we have this bad feeling anytime we walk into the basement). So lets continue cleaning and restructuring the core and maybe others help to build nice things on top of it. If one really wants compatibility he has to invest his (own) time. It's sad that we do have limited resources - but we have to keep the focus. Regarding Omibrowser: maybe it is a nice framework - I dont know. If it is true that it is too limited (multi selections/tree support/...) it should be improved. If that is not possible I think we should not care about OmniBrowser anymore. We should then switch to a minimal implementation of a browser (maybe Nautilus) that helps us build the next gen browsers/tools. So here are two simple questions: - does OmniBrowser support multi selections and trees? - if not can it (easily) be added If both answered with "no" I doubt that we (can) invest more time into it... Bye T. -- Empfehlen Sie GMX DSL Ihren Freunden und Bekannten und wir belohnen Sie mit bis zu 50,- Euro! https://freundschaftswerbung.gmx.de

Aug. 30, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] MorphLayout

by Gary Chambers

The standard TableLayout can do this using the #wrapDirection property, e.g.: |builder| builder := UITheme builder. (builder newRow: { Morph new color: Color red. Morph new color: Color yellow. Morph new color: Color green. Morph new color: Color blue. Morph new color: Color orange}) cellInset: 10; wrapDirection: #topToBottom; openInWindow Regards, Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Camillo Bruni" <camillo.bruni(a)inria.fr> To: "Pharo Development" <pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 10:57 AM Subject: [Pharo-project] MorphLayout Hi, I am looking for a sort of FlowLayout which works the same way usually text is handled: All submorphs are put on a single line and wrapped when the border is hit. Is there already a layout which does this?

Aug. 30, 2011

[Pharo-project] Omnibrowser in 1.4

by Torsten Bergmann

>>On Aug 30, 2011, at 1:58 AM, Douglas Brebner wrote: >>If I may make a metaphor, it sounds like rebuilding a house from the foundations on up while you're living in it. Things are bound to get unpleasant while it's happening, but it's still worth it in the end. :) Things get very complicated if one start with the roof (tools) and later thinks about a new ground plan with changes in the basement (core). And you cant really get a good home if you design the new ground plan always with compatibility to the broken and misshapend roof... What we currently try is to always work a little bit on the ground floor and update the top floor accordingly (if time permits) If we wouldnt live within this home - we wouldnt care if the roof is covered and rain comes in, we would get the basement right and later build a fashionable roof on top of it. >Stef wrote: >Doing that for real here with three kids :) Doing for real too (with two kids) - but not while living in it (living somewhere else). So you have less dirt and things do not get too much unpleasant since you always have a fallback/save home. To bring it back to Pharo this would mean to boostrap a new home/image from an already working one which is AFAIK also in the pipe... Bye T. -- Empfehlen Sie GMX DSL Ihren Freunden und Bekannten und wir belohnen Sie mit bis zu 50,- Euro! https://freundschaftswerbung.gmx.de

Aug. 30, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Omnibrowser in 1.4

by Sean P. DeNigris

Levente Uzonyi-2 wrote: > > IMHO it doesn't matter if it's crap or not. What you should consider is: > - how widely is the API used? > While this is practical and a great way to prioritize, I ultimately want a system that is clean and beautiful down as close to the metal as possible. In the past, when I've dug deeper (Morphic, VM, etc.), I got smacked by ugly, hard to understand code and broken processes. Usually, just to figure out what the heck is going on I have to spend time refactoring and cleaning before I can do my work. And at ESUG, I got the same feedback. For instance, when Morphic came up, I realized that we all end up reimplementing from the ground up (custom text morph, layout hacks) because it's so brittle. I talked to people all over the world waiting with great ideas, because they were bitten by the ugliness in the depths of the code. Once the necessary pain is done, I think many will step up and produce amazing things, but not if the cleaning and restructuring stops. For me to be confident and productive, I need to know that wherever I go, even if it's not very often, I will be at home and empowered to bend the system to my ends. For me, the releases are like OS releases with a super-human pace, which I enjoy and appreciate. That having been said, I have projects still using 1.2, and spend a lot of time keeping outside projects up to date as I upgrade. If that's the price for the system we all dream of, so be it. Levente Uzonyi-2 wrote: > > - how easy is it to implement a (partially) backwards compatible API? > In some cases, but how about file handling? "FileDirectory extensionFor: aDirectoryEntryFile name" vs. "anFSReference extension" Someone please cryogenically freeze me until the former is eradicated from the image. It hurts and offends me. My 2c, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Omnibrowser-in-1-4-tp3774180p3778260.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Aug. 30, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo 1.3 release

by Marcus Denker

On Aug 30, 2011, at 9:48 AM, laurent laffont wrote: > On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 9:21 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On Aug 30, 2011, at 8:52 AM, laurent laffont wrote: > > > On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 8:42 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > > > On Aug 30, 2011, at 8:37 AM, Pat Maddox wrote: > > > > > 1.2 is for download on the site, 1.3 is listed on the site with no links, and 1.4 is discussed on the mailing list. I have absolutely no idea what is going on with Pharo, which version is being actively developed and maintained, which one to use, etc. It is very frustrating. So what's the deal with the Pharo "roadmap" ? > > > > > > Pat > > > > situation is really simple > > 1.3 is in post release candidate mode. > > we should build the one click distribution, update the web site and announce it > > > > > > I can update the website when you tell me. > > > > Laurent. > > thanks laurent > > could you add a little info and a link on the latest 1.3 release candidate? > > > Yes. I've tried but I'm stupid I don't know how to add a blog post on cmsbox :) I'm waiting Adrian answer but maybe one of you know ? > I would not do a blog post but just put infos on http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download/release-1-3 -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

Aug. 30, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Omnibrowser in 1.4

by Levente Uzonyi

On Tue, 30 Aug 2011, Igor Stasenko wrote: > On 30 August 2011 02:58, Douglas Brebner <squeaklists(a)fang.demon.co.uk> wrote: >> On 29/08/2011 21:41, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >>> >>> So may be you do not like Ring and this is ok. >>> Now I want an abstraction so that we can build a remote browser by >>> plugging simply rTalk + nautilus + ring. >>> With the current state of the system this was simply impossible. >>> >>> I want to be able to browse senders in the past and compare them with the >>> current version. Because we use >>> prehistorical tools even if we could have something like torch to help us. >>> >>> I cannot see anymore SystemChangeNotifier (even if this was far better >>> than without) >>> PackageInfo, PackageOrganizer with lazy identification of packages >>> so that when you do an analysis you have to ask sometimes twice to >>> packageOrganiser and packageInfo. Ask cyrille the time he spent there. >>> >>> I want one good browser, one code model (to be used by all the tools), one >>> system notifier and a good one. >>> One AST. >>> >> >> If I may make a metaphor, it sounds like rebuilding a house from the >> foundations on up while you're living in it. Things are bound to get >> unpleasant while it's happening, but it's still worth it in the end. :) >> > > Yes.. > > I agree with Stef. Compatibility (including backward's one) is good to > have when it worth it. > > But keeping compatibility with crap (okay, okay lets call it poorly > designed software)? IMHO it doesn't matter if it's crap or not. What you should consider is: - how widely is the API used? - how easy is it to implement a (partially) backwards compatible API? > Why? > > Of course we can focus our energy somewhere else.. But then i think it > will be not making Pharo, but more making things on top of it. > Still there's a lot to do in Pharo. Maybe for Lukas it is unclear.. > i'm not sure. > But we are agree in one thing: we want to fix stuff even if its not > broken , because the way it works is against laws of logic, software > engineering, common sense etc.. > > And i can remind everyone: nobody forcing people to use latest stuff. > I know that commercial applications are at least 1 year behind the > current version. > That's the way it works and not only for Pharo, but for most other > software in the world. And there is nothing bad with it. > > Personally, if i would be involved in commercial project, i would just > pick one version of image and stick with it to the death. Unless you need the new features of the newer images. Levente > Because often there's much more to care about inside a project itself > (development, support etc), and you usually having deadlines.. > so trying to cope up with latest and greates stuff at the same rate as > it appears would be just silly and waste of energy. > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. > >

Aug. 30, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo 1.3 release

by laurent laffont

On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 9:21 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > wrote: > > On Aug 30, 2011, at 8:52 AM, laurent laffont wrote: > > > On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 8:42 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse < > stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > > > On Aug 30, 2011, at 8:37 AM, Pat Maddox wrote: > > > > > 1.2 is for download on the site, 1.3 is listed on the site with no > links, and 1.4 is discussed on the mailing list. I have absolutely no idea > what is going on with Pharo, which version is being actively developed and > maintained, which one to use, etc. It is very frustrating. So what's the > deal with the Pharo "roadmap" ? > > > > > > Pat > > > > situation is really simple > > 1.3 is in post release candidate mode. > > we should build the one click distribution, update the web site > and announce it > > > > > > I can update the website when you tell me. > > > > Laurent. > > thanks laurent > > could you add a little info and a link on the latest 1.3 release candidate? > Yes. I've tried but I'm stupid I don't know how to add a blog post on cmsbox :) I'm waiting Adrian answer but maybe one of you know ? Laurent. > > Stef >

Aug. 30, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo 1.3 release

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Aug 30, 2011, at 8:52 AM, laurent laffont wrote: > On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 8:42 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On Aug 30, 2011, at 8:37 AM, Pat Maddox wrote: > > > 1.2 is for download on the site, 1.3 is listed on the site with no links, and 1.4 is discussed on the mailing list. I have absolutely no idea what is going on with Pharo, which version is being actively developed and maintained, which one to use, etc. It is very frustrating. So what's the deal with the Pharo "roadmap" ? > > > > Pat > > situation is really simple > 1.3 is in post release candidate mode. > we should build the one click distribution, update the web site and announce it > > > I can update the website when you tell me. > > Laurent. thanks laurent could you add a little info and a link on the latest 1.3 release candidate? Stef

Aug. 30, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Omnibrowser in 1.4

by Philippe Marschall

On 29.08.2011 14:32, Lukas Renggli wrote: > On 29 August 2011 13:54, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: >> Since there is ob, I personally use Nautilus. It provides interesting functionalities >> such as grouping packages and the hierarchies view (such as in vw). Importing >> things are missing however, including refactorings. > > Personally I wonder what the goal of Nautilus is? > > Nautilus looks to me like yet another Smalltalk-80 browser that works > exactly the same as all previous Smalltalk browsers in the last 32 > years (including OB). IMHO fixed lists, a text field and ugly buttons > do not cut it anymore. Did any Smalltalker ever work with XCode, > Eclipse, VisualStudio, ...? They are all inferior! Everybody body who has never used them or has used them at most for 5 seconds by clicking through the menus can confirm this. Because that was the state 15 years ago. Never mind that nobody actually uses RB because it's that bad. As long as nobody admits this our tools are prefect. Cheers Philippe

Aug. 30, 2011