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[Pharo-project] Morphic replacement

by Fernando Olivero

Dear all, I've been working on a hole replacement of Morphic myself, because if was tired of fixing Morphic (or porting CUIS Morphic into Pharo), and found much more productive the approach of rewriting it from scratch. In my expierience, i was 100% more productive by not trying to be backward compatible with Morphic, Polymorph , etc. I found it easier to come up with a new set of widgets (EntryField, AutoCompletionEntryField, Button, Label, Column, Row, ScrollableColumns) from scratch. They are all fairly tested also. Maybe it's time to move on, and develop from the ground up a Morphic-like successor, instead of fixing the current Morphic. There's no problem with preserving the current UI for all the apps that are out there, and provide a cleaner, simpler UI framework for the new apps. Regarding the new "morphic", I only assume that i have a scalable canvas, and the vm's notifying me of the user events. On top of that i recreated a World, that can have multiple views. There's only one World at a given time. Views are presented within the world in a given viewport, and present a scene. Scene are were the shapes live in. No World as a subclass of PasteUpMorph, no globals such as World, ActiveWorld, Hand. ActiveHand, etcs.. The world has a mouse and a keyboard, which take care of events announced by the world. For example GMouse>>down: aDisplayPosition, would take care of transforming the display position into a world position, into a view position, into a scene position, and finally notifying the proper shape under the mouse that it has been clicked at a certain local position. GShape>>clickedAt: , GShape>>secondaryClickedAt:, etc.. No Events hierarchy, or the awful switch currently in HandMorph ( generateMouseEvent: or generateKeyboardEvent:). I have a "Gaucho" system working now, with GShape (instead of Morphs), using the simple new layouts developed by Juan in CUIS, uniform usage of keybindings across the whole GShape hierarchy, amongst other goodies. It's still tailored to be a Morphic replacement for Gaucho, so first i need to polish a few things prior to releasing it. For example, i'm going to ditch my current scalable canvas implementation, in favor of Athens. Hope that very soon i can provide more details, but my plans are to release it as part of the next Gaucho version, to provide a working example. Fernando

Nov. 25, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] experience with large images?

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 25 Nov 2011, at 10:31, Norbert Hartl wrote: > A very good reason to bring 64bit back into focus, don't you think? I too think that big images are important: as other have said, RAM is cheap so there is no reason not to use it. One should not get sloppy and waiste memory, so good engineering and algorithms are very important, but if someone wants to take huge amounts of data in RAM for whatever reason, that should be possible. Being able to use a lot of memory amplifies the power of Smalltalk. At least a 32-bit VM should offer a usable memory space for the image as close as possible to its theoretical maximum. And indeed, next is a 64-bit VM/image combination. Sven

Nov. 25, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] object format of true, false, nil and others...

by Frank Shearar

On 23 November 2011 21:59, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Hi > > imagine that I want to bootstrap our nice kernel. > I will need to somehow create a new nil, true, false, instances of new classes Undefined, True, False. > Such instances will then be put on the SpecialObjectArray somehow. > > Now I can create a dummy object playing such roles and then use SystemTracer to substitute my placeholder with the true nil falseâ¦. > or another trick to swap them. Now anybody has other ideas? I recall Michael van der Gulik bootstrapping his SecureSqueak a while back in a sort've "ab initio" kind of way. Maybe he can offer some insight? frank

Nov. 25, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] experience with large images?

by Norbert Hartl

Am 25.11.2011 um 00:45 schrieb Igor Stasenko: > On 25 November 2011 01:28, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: >> Igor Stasenko wrote: >> >>> I think you looking for solution in a wrong direction. >>> Just ask yourself, how much of that data you need to keep in operative >>> memory at single moment of time >>> to efficiently compute results. >> >> All of it. And then of course the annotations and resulting output model. >> I know practically nothing about the data at first (about 700 files, >> about 700 MB). When trying to understand the data, it is crucial that I can >> test hypotheses fast. Efficiency is about my time, not computer time. >> >>> If today you need to deal with >500Mb data sets, >>> tomorrow you may need to deal with multigigabyte datasets, which can >>> easily surpass >>> the amount of operative memory your computer has. >> >> 16 GB DIMMS are about 250 Euro. For a commercial project it is >> easy to justify half a terabyte of ram. >> > ok. then how about investing a bit to make sure VMs could conserve > that much memory? :) > A very good reason to bring 64bit back into focus, don't you think? Norbert >>> I know, it is easier to find cheap solution, without spending time >>> implementing own >>> data caching scheme, but you just delaying inevitable. >> >> Delaying is crucial. If I wait long enough, PC's will have enough memory. >> >> Stephan >> >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. >

Nov. 25, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] VM Exit Value

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 25 Nov 2011, at 09:37, Lukas Renggli wrote: > Not nice, but works reasonably well. The invoking script "listens" to Pharo generating some output file. > Have a look at builder.sh, it does that. Thx, I knew about that one. And indeed, it does seems to work, but it is not very nice compared to how everything else in *nix is supposed to work. Sven

Nov. 25, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Morphic Cleanup Status

by Alain Plantec

Le 25/11/2011 07:39, Sean P. DeNigris a Ã©crit : > What's currently in progress? SimpleMorphic? CUIS related? Other? > > I was pulling my hair out with Morphic layouts yesterday and started to > clean, but I don't want to duplicate efforts on things already being worked > on. There are a bunch of open issues and discussions on the list. What's > actively being done right now? Hi Sean, AFAIK, no deep cleaning action. nothing from my side for now. I think they have done some refactoring around layout managing in CUIS (SimpleMorphic). btw, **thanks a lot** for all you are doing. Cheers Alain > > Thanks. > Sean > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Morphic-Cleanup-Status-tp4106566p4106566.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Nov. 25, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] VM Exit Value

by Lukas Renggli

Not nice, but works reasonably well. The invoking script "listens" to Pharo generating some output file. Have a look at builder.sh, it does that. Lukas On Friday, 25 November 2011, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)beta9.be> wrote: > Hi, > > For scripting purposes, I would like to use/control the VM exit status/value (on Linux). > > There is SmalltalkImage>>#snapshot:andQuit: but there is nothing there that indicates that one can set the process exit status. Is there a way to do that ? > > Has anyone a good idea on how the CogVM could communicate back to its invoking script whether is ran OK or not ? > > Thx, > > Sven > -- Lukas Renggli (mobile) http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

Nov. 25, 2011

[Pharo-project] VM Exit Value

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Hi, For scripting purposes, I would like to use/control the VM exit status/value (on Linux). There is SmalltalkImage>>#snapshot:andQuit: but there is nothing there that indicates that one can set the process exit status. Is there a way to do that ? Has anyone a good idea on how the CogVM could communicate back to its invoking script whether is ran OK or not ? Thx, Sven

Nov. 25, 2011

[Pharo-project] Morphic Cleanup Status

by Sean P. DeNigris

What's currently in progress? SimpleMorphic? CUIS related? Other? I was pulling my hair out with Morphic layouts yesterday and started to clean, but I don't want to duplicate efforts on things already being worked on. There are a bunch of open issues and discussions on the list. What's actively being done right now? Thanks. Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Morphic-Cleanup-Status-tp4106566p4106566.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Nov. 25, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] experience with large images?

by Igor Stasenko

On 25 November 2011 01:28, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: > Igor Stasenko wrote: > >> I think you looking for solution in a wrong direction. >> Just ask yourself, how much of that data you need to keep in operative >> memory at single moment of time >> to efficiently compute results. > > All of it. And then of course the annotations and resulting output model. > I know practically nothing about the data at first (about 700 files, > about 700 MB). When trying to understand the data, it is crucial that I can > test hypotheses fast. Efficiency is about my time, not computer time. > >> If today you need to deal with >500Mb data sets, >> tomorrow you may need to deal with multigigabyte datasets, which can >> easily surpass >> the amount of operative memory your computer has. > > 16 GB DIMMS are about 250 Euro. For a commercial project it is > easy to justify half a terabyte of ram. > ok. then how about investing a bit to make sure VMs could conserve that much memory? :) >> I know, it is easier to find cheap solution, without spending time >> implementing own >> data caching scheme, but you just delaying inevitable. > > Delaying is crucial. If I wait long enough, PC's will have enough memory. > > Stephan > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Nov. 24, 2011