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Re: [Pharo-project] VM page in pharo book is outdated

by Serge Stinckwich

On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 10:12 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > Checking the pharo colaboractive book, I found that the VM building is old and it is not compatible anymore with our current process. Maybe "someone" (cough, cough, Mariano, cough, cough) could update it with better information? > > Cheers, > Esteban > > pd: also... I'm a little worried about nobody noticing this before. That means people does not use pharo book? I think is a great way to share information, but maybe there is not much people aware of it... I know, there is a link in "external links" in main page and is top in "documentation"... I don't know if we can do it more visible or clear? > ppd: I'd rearrange "pharo tools" section by adding subsections like: "Persistence", "Web", etc., today looks a little bit confusing, IMHO. > pppd: yeah... today is my "stupid questions" day... :P There is the Pharo by Example book (Vol 1 and vol 2) and the Pharo Collaboractive book. I'm wondering if this is a kind of dispersion to have two books at the same time. What is the idea of Pharo Collaborative book ? More focused on Pharo applications ? a Pharo user manual ? Maybe some chapters maybe be shared between the two books. Regards, -- Serge Stinckwich UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC), Hanoi, Vietnam Matsuno Laboratory, Kyoto University, Japan (until 12/2011) http://www.mechatronics.me.kyoto-u.ac.jp/ Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://doesnotunderstand.org/

Nov. 30, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] VM page in pharo book is outdated

by Serge Stinckwich

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 6:51 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > >> Hi Esteban. I DID notice that the book was "outdated". The thing is that we have to decide, as the Pharo community, if it is outdated or just another alternative. >> Eliot's way of building the VM is different than "our". We use ConfigurationOfCog + CMakeVMMaker + Git. Eliot uses another way. >> So what is documented in the pharo book is kind of Eliot way. >> We have to decide as a community what do we expect when building cog. Is ConfigurationOfCog + CMakeVMMaker + Git the OFFICIAL Pharo way of building the VM? Â If we do agree on this, then yes, we should update the book. Something different is if ConfigurationOfCog + CMakeVMMaker + Git is just ANOTHER way of bulding the VM, in which case I don't see as incorrect what is in the pharo book. > > > Guess my answer :) > Why would we throw away the three months igor spent making sure that idiot like me can compile the VM without problems. > And more important Git (which I hate for my article) is socially the way to go for the VM = message to cool C hackers > yes you are welcome to clean and improve our VM (it deserves it and once of these days we will have to do somethingâ¦ because > we are losing against simpler, nicer VM like lua (C-embedding, â¦.). > JB is fighting to get the stack vm compiling on a funky micro pro and the VM dusty code is getting in our way. +1 I would love to use Pharo to do more robotics/embedded stuff. For example, i would like to be able to connect C/C++ computer vision libraries like OpenCV with FFI/Alien. But this is still difficult to do that in Pharo. I don't have the energy and man-power to invest time in this direction. If i ask some students do to this work, i know that they will have a lot of difficulties and at end the experience will be not very funny. Regards, -- Serge Stinckwich UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC), Hanoi, Vietnam Matsuno Laboratory, Kyoto University, Japan (until 12/2011) http://www.mechatronics.me.kyoto-u.ac.jp/ Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://doesnotunderstand.org/

Nov. 30, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo VMs should be more Pharo-like

by Serge Stinckwich

On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 9:46 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > Currently, we are linking official VMs Â for pharo taking directly from Jenkins a version and packaging for download (or for Pharo One-Click). > I think this is a temporal solution, we need something better: > > 1) Pharo VMs should have Pharo Icons. > 2) Pharo VMs should be named "pharo" or "pharovm" (better the fist), not "CogVM", which is an internal name. > 3) We should include a PLUGINS.txt file with information about present plugins (internal and external) > 4) We should include a LICENCE.txt file with all licence information. > > ... I think that's all :) > > > > I know... this is very dumb and clearly not mandatory, but it says a lot about the maturity of our Pharo :) > > All agree? Should I create a ticket? Yes, nobody could disagree with that ;-) > Cheers, > Esteban > > pd: I'm the only one who does not likes One-Click versions? I would prefer a different package for each platform (Is ugly to have a directory named Pharo.app in linux or windows. Also, no need to have all those duplicated-but-for-different-platform files) Most of the time, i'm using One-click images. This is really convenient to move images between machines and give them to friends. If the process of creating releases is automated, both can be provided. Regards, -- Serge Stinckwich UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC), Hanoi, Vietnam Matsuno Laboratory, Kyoto University, Japan (until 12/2011) http://www.mechatronics.me.kyoto-u.ac.jp/ Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://doesnotunderstand.org/

Nov. 30, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] object format of true, false, nil and others...

by Eliot Miranda

On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 2:25 PM, Stefan Marr <pharo(a)stefan-marr.de> wrote: > Hi: > > On 23 Nov 2011, at 22:59, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > > imagine that I want to bootstrap our nice kernel. > > I will need to somehow create a new nil, true, false, instances of new > classes Undefined, True, False. > > Such instances will then be put on the SpecialObjectArray somehow. > > Something kind of related: > > When debugging the VM, I am happy that I always encounter the same object > as the first object in the heap. It is some strange string (think it > encodes an error message or so). > > However, my thought was, also for other purposes, would it be possible to > have these special objects sorted to the beginning? Especially, the nilObj > would be very handy to have as the first object. > Note that Cog assumes that false and true are next to each other. You'll find in all Pharo/Squeak images that the first three objects are nil, false, true in that order. Assuming they're contiguous allows the JIT to generate more compact conditional branch code since true = false + 8, and so it only has to load one 32-bit constant and can derive the other by adding a small constant. > That would need special VM support to arrange it that way, but knowing the > nilObj from the very beginning would allow my to initialize some of my > hacks more consistently, avoiding C-level NULLs and runtime checks. > It's safe to assume nil comes first. One can imagine experimental contexts where one would want to become nil but the current VMs will very likely crash without some work. But why waste cycles on every run when it is so unlilkely anyone will try this? > Just an idea, vaguely related to the question. > > Would be interesting to hear whether there are any historical insights > with regard to ordering objects in the image. > Guess it is not done because nobody needed it. (and then there isn't > really a primitive for it, and a moving GC might also be contra-productive, > etc.) > > Best regards > Stefan > > > > > > > Stef > > -- > Stefan Marr > Software Languages Lab > Vrije Universiteit Brussel > Pleinlaan 2 / B-1050 Brussels / Belgium > http://soft.vub.ac.be/~smarr > Phone: +32 2 629 2974 > Fax: +32 2 629 3525 > > > -- best, Eliot

Nov. 29, 2011

[Pharo-project] [update 1.4] #14239

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

14239 ----- - Issue 5038: Optimization in list wrapping. Thanks Benjamin van ryseghem. http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=5038 - Issue 5034: Harvest class comments from Squeak. Thanks Sean De Nigris. http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=5034 - Issue 5033: ReferenceStream Comment: Remove underscore assignment. Thanks Sean De Nigris. http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=5033 Issue 5039: FlatMessageListBrowser improvement. Thanks Benjamin van ryseghem. http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=5039 Thanks Stef

Nov. 29, 2011

[Pharo-project] New Cog VMs available at...

by Eliot Miranda

VM.r2518/ <http://www.mirandabanda.org/files/Cog/VM/VM.r2518/>. CogVM binaries as per VMMaker.oscog-eem.139/r2518. Add access to VM arguments to Mac. Make Windows, Mac and Unix consistent: Smalltalk getSystemAttribute: -1 => executable name -2 .. -n => VM arguments *including* image (if explicitly supplied). Replace win32 command line parsing with unixesque code using CommandLineToArgvW. linux launch script: Cope with old linuxes use of /lib/tls hack for an optional thread-local-storage version of libc/libpthread. The launch scripts add /lib/tls:/usr/lib/tls: to LD_LIBRARY_PATH instead of /lib:/usr/lib: if the VM is linked to /lib/tls/libc. -- best, Eliot

Nov. 29, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Problem with NonInteractiveUIManager

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

sounds good to me. open an entry. On Nov 29, 2011, at 5:32 PM, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: > This is what I have for a class comment, between what was already there and > what Igor said in this thread: > > I am a UI manager which doesn't provide any kind of interactivity with > users. I guarantee that your task(s) will run in fully-automated mode. This > is useful for things like: > - an image runing as a persistent application on a server > - an image running headless from the command-line with some batch > scripts/commands > > I automatically take ownership: > - when you run an image with the -headless parameter > - during image startup (StartupUIManager) > > To install me: > UIManager default: NonInteractiveUIManager new. > > To replace me: > UIManager default: MorphicUIManager new. > > To handle requests when a UI is not available, catch ErrorNonInteractive. > For example: > response := [ UIManager default request: 'what is your name?' ] on: > ErrorNonInteractive do: [:ex | ex return: 'Mr. John Smith' ]. > > My default error handling: for any unhandled error, print a stack trace to a > log file and exit to the OS. > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Problem-with-NonInteractiveUIManager-tp4115412p411980… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Nov. 29, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Problem with NonInteractiveUIManager

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

send the code and open a bug entry. There is no simple useless easy code. Improving all the time is the only way. Stef On Nov 29, 2011, at 4:56 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > On 29 November 2011 16:42, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> I'm confused by your sentence >> >>> if you run headless and don't want to use this manager, >>> you can disable it, just by setting a morphic ui manager: >>> >>> UIManager default: MorphicUIManager new. >> >> we disable it by setting a morphic ui manager? >> > > perhaps we should introduce another message like: > UIManager ensureInteractive. > > so, then you don't have to mention the concrete class name. > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. >

Nov. 29, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] ProtoObject basicNew :)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

it works with the latest version published by esteban On Nov 29, 2011, at 8:45 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 6:07 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > It crashed my NBCog and Cog one vm. so I should probably upgrade. > > > Yes, there were some bugs related to #cannotInterpret: a while ago with Cog. It should not crash with newest Cog versions. Please tell me if it happens. > > > Stef > > > > On Nov 27, 2011, at 11:36 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > > > thanks noury! > > > > > > Stef > > > > On Nov 26, 2011, at 9:05 PM, Noury Bouraqadi wrote: > > > >> Stef, > >> > >> You can easily obtain the list by using a Ghost proxy. > >> 1) Install the package : > >> Gofer new > >> squeaksource: 'Marea'; > >> package: 'GhostProxies'; > >> package: 'GhostProxiesTests'; > >> load. > >> > >> 2) uncomment the body of method SimpleForwarderHandler>>log: aString > >> Transcript show: aString; cr. > >> > >> 3) open a transcript > >> > >> 4) create a proxy on any object and play with it > >> (ObjectProxy proxyFor: (Object new)) inspect > >> > >> 5) analyze the log on the transcript :-) > >> > >> > >> On 25 nov. 2011, at 22:19, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> On Nov 25, 2011, at 10:09 PM, Toon Verwaest wrote: > >>> > >>>> Ok, I guess I was confused by your initial question: "the methods that I should define in a subclass of ProtoObject so that I can use basicNew"... :) > >>> > >>> :) > >>> > >>> Yes it is more the methods that I should define to have a usable class (browse, doit, inspect it). I will probably have to do it by try and error. > >>> > >>> Stef > >>> > >>>> > >>>> On 11/25/2011 10:05 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >>>>> I'm confused. > >>>>> I'm not creating a class but an instance. > >>>>> if it would be Behavior basicNew then yes I made sure that we could do Behavior new and not crashing the system back in Squeak. > >>>>> > >>>>> On Nov 25, 2011, at 9:45 PM, Toon Verwaest wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> With the magic number I mean the number that defines the object's structure. It's one of the first 3 instance variables of every class, encoding how many instance variables there are; what kind of object it is supposed to be (normal, array, bytes, words...). Every "class" basically needs 3 instance variables. 1 defines the structure, 1 the superclass, 1 the behavior (method dictionary). I don't know the other; but just look at some class to know what the order is. > >>>>> Yes format, methodDict, superclass (probably in a different order). > >>>>> And format is ugly because not explicit and coded in several place like instSpec (berk) > >>>>> > >>>>>> And yes, if you want to inspect the object, you'll need to support whatever protocol your inspector is using. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The format is formed as follows: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> format > >>>>>> | fieldSize sizeHiBits format | > >>>>>> fieldSize := self fieldSize + 1. > >>>>>> sizeHiBits := fieldSize // 64. > >>>>>> format := sizeHiBits. > >>>>>> format := (format bitShift: 5) + compactClassIndex. > >>>>>> format := (format bitShift: 4) + self instanceSpecification. > >>>>>> format := (format bitShift: 6) + (fieldSize \\ 64). > >>>>>> format := (format bitShift: 1). > >>>>>> ^ format > >>>>>> > >>>>>> If I read it correctly (just glancing), instance specification specifies if it's arrayed and if it has fields. 0 -> no fields, not arrayed, 1 -> fields, not arrayed, 2 -> arrayed no fields, 3 -> arrayed fields. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> HTH, > >>>>>> Toon > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 11/25/2011 09:31 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >>>>>>> Apparently I can do a doit I was naively doing an inspect ;) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Don't you just need the basicNew primitive, and make sure that the "magic number" is set in the object that has the basicNew installed to something that makes sense? > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I do not know what is the magic number. > >>>>>>> I guess that my problem was that I have first to define what is the minimal behavior. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> If you want to send messages to the object, probably also best install some dictionary as the method dict instvar. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> But I guess that ProtoObject has some behavior since I can browse the class with a browser. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Toon > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On 11/25/2011 09:26 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Hi > >>>>>>>>> I would like to know the methods that I should define in a subclass of ProtoObject so that I can use basicNew. > >>>>>>>>> Does any of you have an idea? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Stef > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> Noury > >> -- > >> http://twitter.com/#!/NouryBouraqadi > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >

Nov. 29, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] VM page in pharo book is outdated

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> Hi Esteban. I DID notice that the book was "outdated". The thing is that we have to decide, as the Pharo community, if it is outdated or just another alternative. > Eliot's way of building the VM is different than "our". We use ConfigurationOfCog + CMakeVMMaker + Git. Eliot uses another way. > So what is documented in the pharo book is kind of Eliot way. > We have to decide as a community what do we expect when building cog. Is ConfigurationOfCog + CMakeVMMaker + Git the OFFICIAL Pharo way of building the VM? If we do agree on this, then yes, we should update the book. Something different is if ConfigurationOfCog + CMakeVMMaker + Git is just ANOTHER way of bulding the VM, in which case I don't see as incorrect what is in the pharo book. Guess my answer :) Why would we throw away the three months igor spent making sure that idiot like me can compile the VM without problems. And more important Git (which I hate for my article) is socially the way to go for the VM = message to cool C hackers yes you are welcome to clean and improve our VM (it deserves it and once of these days we will have to do somethingâ¦ because we are losing against simpler, nicer VM like lua (C-embedding, â¦.). JB is fighting to get the stack vm compiling on a funky micro pro and the VM dusty code is getting in our way. Stef

Nov. 29, 2011