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Re: [Pharo-project] Enthousiasm is the main currency among developers

by Marcus Denker

On Jan 27, 2012, at 6:13 AM, dimitris chloupis wrote: > This article is really encapsulates the attitude and what is wrong with programming in general. The attitude of superiority and intelligence that seems to plague coders and being the biggest obstacle to progress. Yes! The "Everyone is dumb but me" phenomenon... What those "intelligent" people don't get is that complexity is inherently exponential. So even if you are 10 times more intelligent than me (very well possible), it is *completely* irrelevant considering that complexity grows non-linearly. If you combine this with the notion of Evolution: that it is impossible to creat "the perfect" out of nothing, yet entropy grows when you incrementally improve things... than this has some very serious consequences. > For me the main problem with is the whole aura of "elitism" , what better example than Lisp, where beginners are attacked and be excluded. We had the same effect in Squeak at the end. No progress, every improvement was actively fighted against, if needed with the nice argument that one can do it even better, and only "the best" is worth for Squeak. Another thing that "intelligent" people don't get is that critizising is trivial: You can *always* do better, there is no perfection. It's an endless process. This implies that one has to accept and embrace imperfection if one wants to have a future. Else you end up never finishing anything, the death of any incremental progress. Pharo was started with the explicit goal to do as many mistakes as possible, as fast as possible. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

Jan. 27, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Proposed (or just written down desired) Keyboard Event Model

by Henrik Johansen

On Jan 27, 2012, at 1:39 30PM, Guillermo Polito wrote: > "Event handling, and the philosopher's keyboard" > > I've downloaded Stef and Igor's EventModel to play with their new event model :). I've created KeydownEvent and KeyupEvent in contrast to the generic KeyboardEvent with all the information. It's very simple code, but, that is the api I'm talking about. > > Gofer it > squeaksource: 'GuilleUtils'; > package: 'EventModel'; > load > > | ann evt | > ann := SystemInputEventAnnouncer new. > ann subscribe: SystemInputEvent send: #dispatchEvent: to: World activeHand. > > 10 timesRepeat: [ > 500 milliSeconds asDelay wait. > evt := Sensor nextEvent. > evt ifNotNil: [ > ann handleEvent: evt > ]. > ]. My 2c: To me, the events just look like thin wrappers around the buffers where you can get values by name rather than by indexâ¦ You need to do the deconstruction of buffers to objects _somewhere_, personally I that place should be before they are handed to specific consumers (like Morphic). I mean, the types are defined by the VM, and not really up for individual interpretation by different frameworks... For SystemKeyboardEvent, that would mean: - Create subclasses of SystemKeyboardEvent, one each for KeyPressed/KeyDown/KeyUp. - Change SystemInputEvent to do newFromBuffer: instead of new initFromBuffer: - Change SystemKeyboardInputEvent to instantiate the correct subclass. Same applies for f.ex. SystemWindowInputEvent, where a consumer might look like: SystemInputAnnouncer subscribe: WindowMetricChanged do: [:ann| ...], and not SystemInputAnnouncer subscribe: SystemInputAnnouncer: SystemWindowInputEvent do: [ann | ann action = WindowEventMetricChange ifTrue: [â¦]] Will there be duplication between Morphic and SystemEvent announcer in distinction of events? Yes, until Morphic is rewritten to use the announcements directly, instead of creating its own representation of the same classes. But removing that duplication (on the Morphic side of things) is a very natural next step... Cheers, Henry

Jan. 27, 2012

[Pharo-project] Artifacts Mirroring

by Camillo Bruni

hi everyone, I thought about mirroring the fresh artifacts from our jenkins server to the google-code site. Like this we would have at least a second place to download fresh builds even if the jenkins site is down again. What do you think?

Jan. 27, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Proposed (or just written down desired) Keyboard Event Model

by Guillermo Polito

*"Event handling, and the philosopher's keyboard"* I've downloaded Stef and Igor's EventModel to play with their new event model :). I've created KeydownEvent and KeyupEvent in contrast to the generic KeyboardEvent with all the information. It's very simple code, but, that is the api I'm talking about. Gofer it squeaksource: 'GuilleUtils'; package: 'EventModel'; load | ann evt | ann := SystemInputEventAnnouncer new. ann subscribe: SystemInputEvent send: #dispatchEvent: to: World activeHand. 10 timesRepeat: [ 500 milliSeconds asDelay wait. evt := Sensor nextEvent. evt ifNotNil: [ ann handleEvent: evt ]. ]. I don't know what other people happen to think about it :/, but a simple path to include this stuff in the image without breaking everything should be: 1) since keyup and keydown events are not used in any morph in the core, adding the new keydown and keyup should not break anything. 2) fetch a #keyStroke: implementor 3) if it's handling shortcuts instead of only chars (like cmd+smthg, ctrl+smthng), create an issue "put my shortcut handling in #keyDown: please" 4) solve the issue 5) if (#keyStrokes: toRefactor) > 0 : goto 2 After all that, the keyStroke users should only be using keyCharacter, and the refactor to use a simplified KeystrokeEvent is pretty straight forward :). On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 3:07 PM, Guillermo Polito <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com > wrote: > > 2) Some key representation varies from platform to platform. i.e.: A > Shift-only press generates today a keydown event with: > - a 254 keyCode value in unix > - a 16 keyCode value in windows > > So I think a "table" has to be built and documented for mappings for each > key in a keyboard. Examples of this can be found in enums/defs from other > platforms: > > X11 (current used window system in unix vm): > http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/proto/x11proto/plain/keysymdef.h Andreas Raab suggested here to follow the X11 table, since it seems to be the more complete one :): http://forum.world.st/Windows-cog-vm-Keyboard-events-related-about-keycode-… Guille

Jan. 27, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Enthusiasm is the main currency among developers

by Janko MivÅ¡ek

Very interesting article indeed. Some more interesting snippets (emphasized mostly by me: "Over and over again, I felt "Yeah! I am _good_ at this!" ... All around me were people who felt the same way, who were *competent and intelligent and caring* about each their own fields, and we could talk about and study each other's work and share information and sit down together and solve problems bigger than each of us could deal with alone. For every hardware or software product, there are enthusiasts: wild, untamed, uncontrollable people who overflow with excitement that "normal" people have no way to understand. It is that _excitement_ that sets us apart from the crowd. It is that _excitement_ that causes people to join free software and open source projects to give away their work to others of the same kind. This is why free software and open source are mostly developer-to-developer, because *only developers share their joy*. Users do not understand, they do not care, and they do not understand why we care. *The currency in the developer community is enthusiasm*. As a developer, you are not judged solely by your work, but by *how great you think it is*, what went into making it great, and for *your capacity to understand how great somebody else's work is*. All of the software tools on the Internet have a following behind them: People who _care_ and who are willing to help others who care. All languages have groups of dedicated people behind them that profess their love for their language .. they feel personally betrayed by incompetent, unintelligent, or careless people. But give them half a chance to prove otherwise, and developers *will love them again, forgiving and forgetting*, because they share the overall enthusiasm that drives us all. In fact, developer to developer, *we do not only expect enthusiasm, we demand it*. The demand for enthusiasm is a profound recognition of the competence, intelligence and caring that _must_ go into computer software. However, there is something _very_ seriously wrong with the Common Lisp community. People _in_ the community feel that it is perfectly OK to debase, denigrate, ridicule, denounce, disrespect, insult, defame, and smear Common Lisp. The desire to maintain a greatness is so powerful ... that they split whenever they need an incompatible feature. A new name is often chosen for the new language. Anything to keep people looking upwards and onwards. The new feature is great to those who follow it, and the old feature is great to those who stay. The enthusiasm that really helps improve a language is a love for it the way it is and has evolved so far, with an understanding and appreciation of its "momentum of evolution" so that any changes that are proposed seek to retain the users and the investments in it and does not splinter off into a different language and break with the past." Janko S, Sven Van Caekenberghe piÅ¡e: > The following 10 year old Usenet article is quite interesting: > > http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/4563e504dba92253 > > Although it is quite long and partly about Common Lisp, its main point is that enthousiasm and positive energy are the main/natural currency among developers. I think that this is also the main driving force behind Pharo. > > The author is Erik Naggum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_Naggum) a programmer and (in)famous, provocative participant to many discussions. He died a couple of years ago. > > Sven > -- Janko MivÅ¡ek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si

Jan. 27, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] This is so cool, and we can compute it !

by Nicolas Cellier

2012/1/27 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)beta9.be>: > > On 27 Jan 2012, at 11:08, Norbert Hartl wrote: > > I think I've found a bug. Mine ends with > > ... > > 990991992993994995996997999000s3000 > > You can see after 997 there is 999. :) > > > Yeah, the decimals printed in blocks look like this: > > 000001002003004005006007008009 > 010011012013014015016017018019 > 020021022023024025026027028029 > 030031032033034035036037038039 > 040041042043044045046047048049 > 050051052053054055056057058059 > 060061062063064065066067068069 > 070071072073074075076077078079 > 080081082083084085086087088089 > 090091092093094095096097098099 > 100101102103104105106107108109 > 110111112113114115116117118119 > 120121122123124125126127128129 > 130131132133134135136137138139 > 140141142143144145146147148149 > 150151152153154155156157158159 > 160161162163164165166167168169 > 170171172173174175176177178179 > 180181182183184185186187188189 > 190191192193194195196197198199 > 200201202203204205206207208209 > 210211212213214215216217218219 > 220221222223224225226227228229 > 230231232233234235236237238239 > 240241242243244245246247248249 > 250251252253254255256257258259 > 260261262263264265266267268269 > 270271272273274275276277278279 > 280281282283284285286287288289 > 290291292293294295296297298299 > 300301302303304305306307308309 > 310311312313314315316317318319 > 320321322323324325326327328329 > 330331332333334335336337338339 > 340341342343344345346347348349 > 350351352353354355356357358359 > 360361362363364365366367368369 > 370371372373374375376377378379 > 380381382383384385386387388389 > 390391392393394395396397398399 > 400401402403404405406407408409 > 410411412413414415416417418419 > 420421422423424425426427428429 > 430431432433434435436437438439 > 440441442443444445446447448449 > 450451452453454455456457458459 > 460461462463464465466467468469 > 470471472473474475476477478479 > 480481482483484485486487488489 > 490491492493494495496497498499 > 500501502503504505506507508509 > 510511512513514515516517518519 > 520521522523524525526527528529 > 530531532533534535536537538539 > 540541542543544545546547548549 > 550551552553554555556557558559 > 560561562563564565566567568569 > 570571572573574575576577578579 > 580581582583584585586587588589 > 590591592593594595596597598599 > 600601602603604605606607608609 > 610611612613614615616617618619 > 620621622623624625626627628629 > 630631632633634635636637638639 > 640641642643644645646647648649 > 650651652653654655656657658659 > 660661662663664665666667668669 > 670671672673674675676677678679 > 680681682683684685686687688689 > 690691692693694695696697698699 > 700701702703704705706707708709 > 710711712713714715716717718719 > 720721722723724725726727728729 > 730731732733734735736737738739 > 740741742743744745746747748749 > 750751752753754755756757758759 > 760761762763764765766767768769 > 770771772773774775776777778779 > 780781782783784785786787788789 > 790791792793794795796797798799 > 800801802803804805806807808809 > 810811812813814815816817818819 > 820821822823824825826827828829 > 830831832833834835836837838839 > 840841842843844845846847848849 > 850851852853854855856857858859 > 860861862863864865866867868869 > 870871872873874875876877878879 > 880881882883884885886887888889 > 890891892893894895896897898899 > 900901902903904905906907908909 > 910911912913914915916917918919 > 920921922923924925926927928929 > 930931932933934935936937938939 > 940941942943944945946947948949 > 950951952953954955956957958959 > 960961962963964965966967968969 > 970971972973974975976977978979 > 980981982983984985986987988989 > 990991992993994995996997999000 > > So, yes it seems the end has a problem. > > I think we will have to ask our math genius in residence, Nicolas, to > explain this ;-) > > Sven Alas, finding maths amusing is not enough to make a genius. It's just a pinch of salt. You can read the blog and try by yourself which fraction lead to this tail tail := ((0 to: 99) inject: '' writeStream into: [:s :n | n printOn: s base: base length: 2 padded: true. s]) contents. It won't be that short a Fraction. Nicolas

Jan. 27, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Enthousiasm is the main currency among developers

by Nicolas Cellier

2012/1/27 Nicolas Cellier <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com>: > 2012/1/27 dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk>: >> This article is really encapsulates the attitude and what is wrong with >> programming in general. The attitude of superiority and intelligence that >> seems to plague coders and being the biggest obstacle to progress. And what >> biggest proof of lack of progress than the fact that Lips is probably the >> very best that programming languages have to offer. 40 year old technology, >> how sad that is ? Actually if there is one thing thats driving the coding >> community is lack of enthusiasm, is about sticking to what is already there >> , is the fact of being "practical" and "realistic" about code in general. >> How much progress we have seen the last 40 years ? Sure its alot , but what >> happens if you take games out of it , how much hardware would have progress >> ? How much software ? Very little. >> > > Sure arrogance and exclusion are not welcome, I wish no one feel > intimidated in Smalltalk community. > Smalltalk should remain a vector of learning. > I wish intelligence were a plague, alas, I had the impression that > miss-consideration of intelligence was :) > But your words certainly did not mean that. > >> If you take out games that exercise a clear push to graphics and processing >> power and complex data manipulation approaches , AI and many other things , >> the rest of software out there , if you remove some exceptions here and >> there, is the same boring stuff which makes you wait for a year to add a >> single feature you need with a dozen more you don't need. >> >> Its notÂ enthusiasmÂ that drives coding, its money and profit. >> > > Is it only driving coding? > Are our own profits just measured by money? > Isn't there any such thing as a group profit? > >> Then we arrive at the open source phenomenon, which I agree its great and >> amazing and where exciting stuff really happens. But even open has some >> major issue to resolve. First is to anyone surprise is that all that open >> source is rarely used and recycled, most open source projects seem to start >> from scratch , rarely using source from other projects. And then of course >> there is the big issue of licence , its open source, but its not really open >> ... GPL as an example of Â a licence driving open source back instead of >> forward. >> > > But redoing is essential in human activities. That's how we learn. If > we fail to redo, then we forget our parents knowledge, and finally > loose the skills. > > Nicolas I forgot one last thing, GPL does not prevent to redo, it prevents form preventing to redo :) Nicolas

Jan. 27, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Enthousiasm is the main currency among developers

by Nicolas Cellier

2012/1/27 dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk>: > This article is really encapsulates the attitude and what is wrong with > programming in general. The attitude of superiority and intelligence that > seems to plague coders and being the biggest obstacle to progress. And what > biggest proof of lack of progress than the fact that Lips is probably the > very best that programming languages have to offer. 40 year old technology, > how sad that is ? Actually if there is one thing thats driving the coding > community is lack of enthusiasm, is about sticking to what is already there > , is the fact of being "practical" and "realistic" about code in general. > How much progress we have seen the last 40 years ? Sure its alot , but what > happens if you take games out of it , how much hardware would have progress > ? How much software ? Very little. > Sure arrogance and exclusion are not welcome, I wish no one feel intimidated in Smalltalk community. Smalltalk should remain a vector of learning. I wish intelligence were a plague, alas, I had the impression that miss-consideration of intelligence was :) But your words certainly did not mean that. > If you take out games that exercise a clear push to graphics and processing > power and complex data manipulation approaches , AI and many other things , > the rest of software out there , if you remove some exceptions here and > there, is the same boring stuff which makes you wait for a year to add a > single feature you need with a dozen more you don't need. > > Its notÂ enthusiasmÂ that drives coding, its money and profit. > Is it only driving coding? Are our own profits just measured by money? Isn't there any such thing as a group profit? > Then we arrive at the open source phenomenon, which I agree its great and > amazing and where exciting stuff really happens. But even open has some > major issue to resolve. First is to anyone surprise is that all that open > source is rarely used and recycled, most open source projects seem to start > from scratch , rarely using source from other projects. And then of course > there is the big issue of licence , its open source, but its not really open > ... GPL as an example of Â a licence driving open source back instead of > forward. > But redoing is essential in human activities. That's how we learn. If we fail to redo, then we forget our parents knowledge, and finally loose the skills. Nicolas

Jan. 27, 2012

[Pharo-project] Pharo sprint in Brussels on Feb 4th

by Andy Kellens

Dear Pharoers, In an earlier mail Stephan Eggermont already mentioned that there will be Pharo sprint collocated with the FOSDEM conference next week. This sprint will take place on Saturday February 4th from 10h until 18h in the rooms of the Software Languages Lab of the Vrije Universiteit Brussel. More precisely: Room 10F720 (10th floor of building F) Vrije Universiteit Brussel Pleinlaan 2 1050 Brussels Due to renovations to our building, you will have to enter via the entrance between buildings F and G. As the university is normally closed on a Saturday, you might have to pass via security in order to be allowed entrance to the building (they have been notified about the sprint). If you are coming by car, please send me your license plate so that I can make sure that you are allowed to enter the campus. To get some idea of how many people to expect, could you please let us know if you are planning to attend. Kind regards, Andy

Jan. 27, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] This is so cool, and we can compute it !

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 27 Jan 2012, at 11:08, Norbert Hartl wrote: > I think I've found a bug. Mine ends with > > ... > > 990991992993994995996997999000s3000 > > You can see after 997 there is 999. :) Yeah, the decimals printed in blocks look like this: 000001002003004005006007008009 010011012013014015016017018019 020021022023024025026027028029 030031032033034035036037038039 040041042043044045046047048049 050051052053054055056057058059 060061062063064065066067068069 070071072073074075076077078079 080081082083084085086087088089 090091092093094095096097098099 100101102103104105106107108109 110111112113114115116117118119 120121122123124125126127128129 130131132133134135136137138139 140141142143144145146147148149 150151152153154155156157158159 160161162163164165166167168169 170171172173174175176177178179 180181182183184185186187188189 190191192193194195196197198199 200201202203204205206207208209 210211212213214215216217218219 220221222223224225226227228229 230231232233234235236237238239 240241242243244245246247248249 250251252253254255256257258259 260261262263264265266267268269 270271272273274275276277278279 280281282283284285286287288289 290291292293294295296297298299 300301302303304305306307308309 310311312313314315316317318319 320321322323324325326327328329 330331332333334335336337338339 340341342343344345346347348349 350351352353354355356357358359 360361362363364365366367368369 370371372373374375376377378379 380381382383384385386387388389 390391392393394395396397398399 400401402403404405406407408409 410411412413414415416417418419 420421422423424425426427428429 430431432433434435436437438439 440441442443444445446447448449 450451452453454455456457458459 460461462463464465466467468469 470471472473474475476477478479 480481482483484485486487488489 490491492493494495496497498499 500501502503504505506507508509 510511512513514515516517518519 520521522523524525526527528529 530531532533534535536537538539 540541542543544545546547548549 550551552553554555556557558559 560561562563564565566567568569 570571572573574575576577578579 580581582583584585586587588589 590591592593594595596597598599 600601602603604605606607608609 610611612613614615616617618619 620621622623624625626627628629 630631632633634635636637638639 640641642643644645646647648649 650651652653654655656657658659 660661662663664665666667668669 670671672673674675676677678679 680681682683684685686687688689 690691692693694695696697698699 700701702703704705706707708709 710711712713714715716717718719 720721722723724725726727728729 730731732733734735736737738739 740741742743744745746747748749 750751752753754755756757758759 760761762763764765766767768769 770771772773774775776777778779 780781782783784785786787788789 790791792793794795796797798799 800801802803804805806807808809 810811812813814815816817818819 820821822823824825826827828829 830831832833834835836837838839 840841842843844845846847848849 850851852853854855856857858859 860861862863864865866867868869 870871872873874875876877878879 880881882883884885886887888889 890891892893894895896897898899 900901902903904905906907908909 910911912913914915916917918919 920921922923924925926927928929 930931932933934935936937938939 940941942943944945946947948949 950951952953954955956957958959 960961962963964965966967968969 970971972973974975976977978979 980981982983984985986987988989 990991992993994995996997999000 So, yes it seems the end has a problem. I think we will have to ask our math genius in residence, Nicolas, to explain this ;-) Sven

Jan. 27, 2012