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Re: [Pharo-project] small thoughts... system browser to show super methods & wide debugger

by Frank Shearar

On 5 March 2012 10:32, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > > Just sharing some small thoughts as they cross my mind on the chance the are > of any interest. Not necessarily looking for any response or action. > > 1. In the System Browser when viewing a method, this might include an > expandable list of overridden methods. Â Beneath the code of the current > method being viewed each 'super' method would be listed with an expandable > '+' symbol. Â I have attached a mock up [1] showing all expanded but the > default might be the collapsed state. This is an excellent idea! I've thought of something very similar, and never got around to doing anything with it, namely to do what you suggest above, only also display the "sub" methods - methods of the subclasses. I'd like some options, too: I'd prefer to see these things expanded by default, for instance, while you'd prefer to see them collapsed by default. > 2. The debugger lists instance and temporary variables to be inspected, but > not every object that 'passes through' the method being executed is held in > a variable. Â More often messages are chained together such that to inspect > the object returned from the middle of this chain you need to select that > bit of the code and choose to inspect it again. Â However there may be > side-effects of executing that a second time so you are not guaranteed to > end up looking at the object actually encountered by the execution of the > method. > > What would be interesting would be if in certain circumstances every object > returned by every message in a method was held to be inspected. Which means you'd want to memoise everything within this context? There's a difficult tradeoff to be made here, I think: as you say, invoking a method may cause side effects (even if YOU write purely functional, side-effect-free code, the code you call may not!). Which means sometimes you want to see how you got to where you are - memoising the method calls so the debugger remembers the precise history of the calculation - and sometimes (after you press <restart>) you want to replay the computation, side effects and all. How do you think you could present these options in the debugger? As simply as "memoise until <restart>, and then clear the cache" as a default behaviour? > Â This might > take the form of hovering or right-clicking on any message an choosing > something like 'inspect context'. Â The circumstances this might be turned > on for could be: > a. globally > b. ongoing execution from within debugger > c. certain methods / classes / categories. > > 3. With screens getting much bigger, perhaps the debugger could have an > option to show code from previous calls back to a certain level. Â I have > attached a mock up [2]. Â Even though this image shows using a lot of > vertical space, this would be scrolled. Â Ultimately it would be horizontal > space required as the code steps in, but todays wide screens match this even > better than those a few years ago. Note the yellow highlighted line in the > top pane which can position how far back you look. Bravo, too, on supplying mockups - they give an immediate feel for what you're talking about. frank > cheers, -ben > > [1] SystemBrowser - showing-overriden-methods.png > [2] Debugger - expanded code display.png >

March 5, 2012

[Pharo-project] Pharo 1.4 Tests-Mac - Build # 255 - Still Unstable!

by jenkins-pharo.ci.inria.fr＠jenkins-server.lille.inria.fr

March 5, 2012

[Pharo-project] small thoughts... system browser to show super methods & wide debugger

by Ben Coman

Just sharing some small thoughts as they cross my mind on the chance the are of any interest. Not necessarily looking for any response or action. 1. In the System Browser when viewing a method, this might include an expandable list of overridden methods. Beneath the code of the current method being viewed each 'super' method would be listed with an expandable '+' symbol. I have attached a mock up [1] showing all expanded but the default might be the collapsed state. 2. The debugger lists instance and temporary variables to be inspected, but not every object that 'passes through' the method being executed is held in a variable. More often messages are chained together such that to inspect the object returned from the middle of this chain you need to select that bit of the code and choose to inspect it again. However there may be side-effects of executing that a second time so you are not guaranteed to end up looking at the object actually encountered by the execution of the method. What would be interesting would be if in certain circumstances every object returned by every message in a method was held to be inspected. This might take the form of hovering or right-clicking on any message an choosing something like 'inspect context'. The circumstances this might be turned on for could be: a. globally b. ongoing execution from within debugger c. certain methods / classes / categories. 3. With screens getting much bigger, perhaps the debugger could have an option to show code from previous calls back to a certain level. I have attached a mock up [2]. Even though this image shows using a lot of vertical space, this would be scrolled. Ultimately it would be horizontal space required as the code steps in, but todays wide screens match this even better than those a few years ago. Note the yellow highlighted line in the top pane which can position how far back you look. cheers, -ben [1] SystemBrowser - showing-overriden-methods.png [2] Debugger - expanded code display.png

March 5, 2012

[Pharo-project] Pharo 1.3 - Build # 19 - Still unstable!

by jenkins-pharo.ci.inria.fr＠jenkins-server.lille.inria.fr

March 5, 2012

[Pharo-project] Pharo 1.4 Tests-Mac - Build # 254 - Still unstable!

by jenkins-pharo.ci.inria.fr＠jenkins-server.lille.inria.fr

March 5, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] MVP

by Marcus Denker

On Mar 5, 2012, at 10:03 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Stef, > > Thanks for the code! #stable does some things on 1.4, but I still got nowhere with 1.3. The big thing keeping me off of 1.4 is shout in the browsers - I *really* like syntax highlighting. Isn't Shout enabled in 1.4? > In fairness, I have not looked at 1.4 in a week or so, so maybe that's been fixed. However, I can certainly run it to play around with spec. > > Even on 1.4, I got a DNU over groups; this time I had to add the noop to OB, which is apparently the default in 1.4?? In the past you have shown to want very stable, out of the box usable, "I can not do anything wrong" kind of software. Does it then make sense to use Nautilus, which is in active development? Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

March 5, 2012

[Pharo-project] TestS3 - Build # 2 - Still Unstable!

by jenkins-pharo.ci.inria.fr＠jenkins-server.lille.inria.fr

March 5, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] MVP

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Stef, Thanks for the code! #stable does some things on 1.4, but I still got nowhere with 1.3. The big thing keeping me off of 1.4 is shout in the browsers - I *really* like syntax highlighting. In fairness, I have not looked at 1.4 in a week or so, so maybe that's been fixed. However, I can certainly run it to play around with spec. Even on 1.4, I got a DNU over groups; this time I had to add the noop to OB, which is apparently the default in 1.4?? More fiddling to come. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of StÃ©phane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr] Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 3:26 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP bill thanks for the catch. I updated the document. Gofer new url: 'http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Spec'; package: 'ConfigurationOfSpec'; load ConfigurationOfSpec project load: #stable Stef On Mar 5, 2012, at 1:24 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Ben, > > Great, but I'm still getting nipped by a DNU of #addGroupForPackage:. I found that no-oped in 1.4 so added it to 1.3 and was able to loadFull. It looks like great work, but I can't get anything to run in 1.3 or 1.4. Any ideas? > > Bill > > > > > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Benjamin [benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo(a)gmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 6:53 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP > > Everything has been moved in ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Spec :) > > > Ben > > On Mar 5, 2012, at 12:47 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > >> Ben, >> >> Ok, but I don't see it in either dirty experiments or the mc repository. Am I missing a ConfigurationOfSpec? >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> >> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Benjamin [benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo(a)gmail.com] >> Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 6:38 PM >> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP >> >> I am kind of a middle of something right now, so my advice is really to use the configuration (moreover I have added a lot of packages) >> >> >> Keep me in touch, >> >> Ben >> >> On Mar 5, 2012, at 12:34 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: >> >>> Stef, >>> >>> I skimmed the documentation and attempted to load Spec-BenjaminVanRyseghem.34.mcz into 1.3, but got an error and backed off. >>> >>> Any ideas? >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> >>> >>> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of StÃ©phane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr] >>> Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 2:56 AM >>> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP >>> >>> if you want to have a look at what we are doing with benjamin you can have a look at >>> Spec >>> >>> Yesterday benjamin added inputField support and rewrote the changeSorter. >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> >>> >>> On Feb 5, 2012, at 3:28 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: >>> >>> > More: >>> > >>> > proportional layouts need to let each view have a proportion (zero makes it fixed size) and splitters should be just another view that is added to a composite, following the horizontal/vertical nature of the layout manager. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu] >>> > Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:25 PM >>> > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP >>> > >>> > I'm still a little overwhelmed, but I see attention to layout; this has been a BIG stumbling block for me in my efforts to bring MVP to Pharo. I recommend using nested composite view/presenter pairs for most layout. First, it lends itself well to an eventual view editor, and second, can be surprisingly easy to code directly. >>> > >>> > Each composite view has a layout manager. Layouts include constrained table-like elements, but the real workhorses are proportional layouts, which can be set either horizontal or vertical. By nesting them, very complicate behavior can be achieved. >>> > >>> > There, said "nesting," and that has been where I have fallen into trouble. Pharo/morphic layout works great for children of the top level, but after that, I can't get reliable results. >>> > >>> > Sleep calls... >>> > >>> > Bill >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu] >>> > Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 6:36 PM >>> > To: pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> > Subject: [Pharo-project] MVP >>> > >>> > Hello all, >>> > >>> > I have been to busy to read today, but I like seeing any discussion of MVP. I am **slowly** working on a framework for it, but would be glad to be beaten to it. >>> > >>> > Default models are key; they must be replaceable, but (sub)triads should work "out of the box." Models can include value holders, value adapters, converters, and contexts, depending on how they are wired. >>> > >>> > I have something of a start on the adapters and converters, which I can try to package and make available. If nothing else, they will have value in seeding discussion if not be directly usable. More to come. >>> > >>> > Bill

March 5, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Ideas for this year GSoC wanted

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

HI janko Here is a project for the pharo core team > Your project idea should be written as answers to these questions: Name: Bootstrapping the core Level Advanced Possible mentor: S. Ducasse Possible second mentor: I Stasenko Description The goal of the project is to support the bootstrapping of a image based on a list of operations. Technical Details This works is a follow up on the effort we started around hazelnuts http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/web/pier/software/Seed We will continue working on system tracer and we will revisit the decisions we took in hazelnuts Benefits to the Student Learn about in the internal of the system and bootstrapping techniques. Benefits to the Community Have a new kernel that builds from sources systematically > > > See how such ideas look like in past: http://gsoc2010.esug.org/ideas. > > Waiting for your ideas > Carla and Janko, your GSoC Admin team > > [1] http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/homepage/google/gsoc2012 > [2] http://gsoc2012.esug.org > > -- > Carla F. Griggio, Janko MivÅ¡ek > Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team > http://gsoc2012.esug.org > > <gsoc12-logo.png>

March 5, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] MVP

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

bill thanks for the catch. I updated the document. Gofer new url: 'http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Spec'; package: 'ConfigurationOfSpec'; load ConfigurationOfSpec project load: #stable Stef On Mar 5, 2012, at 1:24 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Ben, > > Great, but I'm still getting nipped by a DNU of #addGroupForPackage:. I found that no-oped in 1.4 so added it to 1.3 and was able to loadFull. It looks like great work, but I can't get anything to run in 1.3 or 1.4. Any ideas? > > Bill > > > > > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Benjamin [benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo(a)gmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 6:53 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP > > Everything has been moved in ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Spec :) > > > Ben > > On Mar 5, 2012, at 12:47 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > >> Ben, >> >> Ok, but I don't see it in either dirty experiments or the mc repository. Am I missing a ConfigurationOfSpec? >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> >> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Benjamin [benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo(a)gmail.com] >> Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 6:38 PM >> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP >> >> I am kind of a middle of something right now, so my advice is really to use the configuration (moreover I have added a lot of packages) >> >> >> Keep me in touch, >> >> Ben >> >> On Mar 5, 2012, at 12:34 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: >> >>> Stef, >>> >>> I skimmed the documentation and attempted to load Spec-BenjaminVanRyseghem.34.mcz into 1.3, but got an error and backed off. >>> >>> Any ideas? >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> >>> >>> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of StÃ©phane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr] >>> Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 2:56 AM >>> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP >>> >>> if you want to have a look at what we are doing with benjamin you can have a look at >>> Spec >>> >>> Yesterday benjamin added inputField support and rewrote the changeSorter. >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> >>> >>> On Feb 5, 2012, at 3:28 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: >>> >>> > More: >>> > >>> > proportional layouts need to let each view have a proportion (zero makes it fixed size) and splitters should be just another view that is added to a composite, following the horizontal/vertical nature of the layout manager. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu] >>> > Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:25 PM >>> > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] MVP >>> > >>> > I'm still a little overwhelmed, but I see attention to layout; this has been a BIG stumbling block for me in my efforts to bring MVP to Pharo. I recommend using nested composite view/presenter pairs for most layout. First, it lends itself well to an eventual view editor, and second, can be surprisingly easy to code directly. >>> > >>> > Each composite view has a layout manager. Layouts include constrained table-like elements, but the real workhorses are proportional layouts, which can be set either horizontal or vertical. By nesting them, very complicate behavior can be achieved. >>> > >>> > There, said "nesting," and that has been where I have fallen into trouble. Pharo/morphic layout works great for children of the top level, but after that, I can't get reliable results. >>> > >>> > Sleep calls... >>> > >>> > Bill >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu] >>> > Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 6:36 PM >>> > To: pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> > Subject: [Pharo-project] MVP >>> > >>> > Hello all, >>> > >>> > I have been to busy to read today, but I like seeing any discussion of MVP. I am **slowly** working on a framework for it, but would be glad to be beaten to it. >>> > >>> > Default models are key; they must be replaceable, but (sub)triads should work "out of the box." Models can include value holders, value adapters, converters, and contexts, depending on how they are wired. >>> > >>> > I have something of a start on the adapters and converters, which I can try to package and make available. If nothing else, they will have value in seeding discussion if not be directly usable. More to come. >>> > >>> > Bill

March 5, 2012