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Re: [Pharo-project] GSoC: ARM jitter for Squeak VM

by Alexis Parseghian

In case you'd rather work on real hardware instead of an emulator, I can recommend Genesi machines (I am not affiliated with them) : http://www.genesi-usa.com/products It's well-designed, inexpensive and supports both armel and armhf ABIs (one of the guys behind the debian armhf port works mostly on a Smartbook). Besides, they take customer support very seriously.

March 8, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] more Nautilus feed back

by Igor Stasenko

On 8 March 2012 23:24, Benjamin <benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On Mar 8, 2012, at 8:25 PM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > > Hi, > > I'm using Nautilus for my current projects since... well... couple of days, > and I have some Â feedback: > > (yeah... maybe they are dumb reports, but that's because you did a great > work with nautilus, I just have some really small observations :) > > 1) OB had double-click action: show hierarchy. I miss it a lot :( > > > If you activate the "open a class on hierarchy" setting, it does the same :) > > Also, hierarchy button is too far away when I want to see the > hierarchy...Â ok, if you don't want to add double click functionality... can > it be a menu option? (show hierarchy (h)) > > > Maybe I should switch the group button and the hierarchy button. It will > make more sense :) > > Even worst: it swaps panels which is very confusing... but that leads to > point 2 :) > > > There are some good arguments to do that :) But I am quite fed up to tell > them again and again ^^ > > 2) swap panel configuration is not working for me in latest pharo 1.4 > > > Ie ? > > 3) I find "Class", "Instance" buttons very confusing. I liked more the older > solution but well, I understand you want to improve visibility of comments, > but then, I think class button would be better as a "toggle" button (those > buttons who stays pressed) > > > Do you have an example of such a button ? > > 4) bold for class side method and categories is too strong, I don't see any > reason for that, we have panel titles and future ;) toggle button to know > which side is. > > > Some people (Laurent not toell who) complain about the lack of visibility. > And indeed, I found than when you have multiples browsers, it helps a lot to > find where you are in a second. > > 5) OB had a #browserIcon method on classes who changed class icon on > browser. This is really useful for knowing different types/hierarchies like > errors, announcements, morphs, etc. Again, this collides with "uncommented" > icon, but I would like to have them back... > > > There are icons for > Morph/Erros/Announcements/Magnitude/String/Collection/etc... But maybe I > could also add a mechanism to let each class defines it's own icon. > > 6) I'm sorry for saying this, but I don't like the icons, nor the colored > options (source, bytecode, decompiled, etc.) at the side. I would prefer a > combo on button panel... and better looking icons (yes Stef, FamFam icons is > ok :) > > > I will be really glad to use yours :) You know, I am kind of a programmer. > It means that making icons is not my work. And due to that, it takes me ages > to do them. > I have no problem to change them at all, but I really don't have time to do > them. > so then go finish arts and design schools (min 5 years each). and only then you may get back and continue working on nautilus! Hurry up. :) > 7) Why we have a button panel (which is in fact a toolbar) in the middle of > the browser and not where it belongs: on top? this is a remain of OB, who > took this from old Browser... but conceptually (as in usability terms), this > is a not-good solution. We could think on change this and place the button > bar where it belongs (and add some cool keybindings too) > > > You can't say that the hierarchy button is to far, and ask for putting the > toolbar on top ^^ > It's here because it's close to the lists (where you spend 20% of your time) > and also close to the source code (where you spend 80% of your time). > > 8) different sized buttons are a really bad concept. Yes... in Smalltalk > this is very common: to create buttons with the size of text... but this is > bad design because disrupts harmony, and that hurts to the eyes... and when > something hurts, you try not to use it :) > > > I can't agreeÂ more. But buttons are kind of a pain in the ass (because they > are embedded into a group morph with its own layout etc). As soon as I can > set > vResizing: #rigid; hResizing: #rigid, I'll do it for sure ^^ > > > yeah.. most of my observations are also for any other tool we have, and most > are about usability... I humbly recommend (for all people doing GUIs), the > lecture of this book:Â http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_Make_Me_Think.Â It > is for web design, but is also a great guide when you want to make things > people like. > > (Also, reading apple design guide is a good way to notice some interesting > things... those guys had invest an insanely amount of time and money in > development them) > > > I will try to find time to read them, but as I said, my exams are in 11 days > so ;) > no. arts school first. ohh.. nothing is perfect. changes are not always better to what we had. but staying is worst of everything. just keep pushing. I can also easily tell what i don't like in Nautilus. Much harder is to propose alternative. I think that feedback about UI should always come with alternative, explaining why you think its better. Or if one feels that old ways is better he should argument that (an argument 'because i get used to it' is WRONG argument ;). Today i had full day hacking using Nautilus. And found some bugs. Hope next iteration they will be fixed. :) There are some rough corners here and there, but overall impression - it is quite good. I will be starting giving more feedback once i will get used to it. Because 1 day is too little to say anything definitive.. i need more immersion to make my feedback more problem-oriented, not tainted by "i don't like it because it different" attitude. > > Thanks for the feedback :) > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

March 8, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Getting the stack trace for an exception

by Guillermo Polito

Yeap, I found that what I want should be something like: exception signalerContext errorReportOn: aStream Thanks! On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 7:54 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 8 March 2012 23:26, Guillermo Polito <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi! > > > > I can't find any way of asking an exception it's stacktrace, which I > found > > useful when logging errors... > > > > I know the code for it is surely written somewhere, but > > - I do not know where > > - wouldn't be ok to move this behaviour to exception/error? (if not, > why?) > > > usually it is a context which having #stack > and exception, which having #signalerContext > > > Guille > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. > >

March 8, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Getting the stack trace for an exception

by Igor Stasenko

On 8 March 2012 23:26, Guillermo Polito <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi! > > I can't find any way of asking an exception it's stacktrace, which I found > useful when logging errors... > > I know the code for it is surely written somewhere, but > - I do not know where > - wouldn't be ok to move this behaviour to exception/error?Â (if not, why?) > usually it is a context which having #stack and exception, which having #signalerContext > Guille -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

March 8, 2012

[Pharo-project] Getting the stack trace for an exception

by Guillermo Polito

Hi! I can't find any way of asking an exception it's stacktrace, which I found useful when logging errors... I know the code for it is surely written somewhere, but - I do not know where - wouldn't be ok to move this behaviour to exception/error? (if not, why?) Guille

March 8, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] more Nautilus feed back

by Benjamin

On Mar 8, 2012, at 8:25 PM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > Hi, > > I'm using Nautilus for my current projects since... well... couple of days, and I have some feedback: > > (yeah... maybe they are dumb reports, but that's because you did a great work with nautilus, I just have some really small observations :) > > 1) OB had double-click action: show hierarchy. I miss it a lot :( If you activate the "open a class on hierarchy" setting, it does the same :) > Also, hierarchy button is too far away when I want to see the hierarchy... ok, if you don't want to add double click functionality... can it be a menu option? (show hierarchy (h)) Maybe I should switch the group button and the hierarchy button. It will make more sense :) > Even worst: it swaps panels which is very confusing... but that leads to point 2 :) There are some good arguments to do that :) But I am quite fed up to tell them again and again ^^ > 2) swap panel configuration is not working for me in latest pharo 1.4 Ie ? > 3) I find "Class", "Instance" buttons very confusing. I liked more the older solution but well, I understand you want to improve visibility of comments, but then, I think class button would be better as a "toggle" button (those buttons who stays pressed) Do you have an example of such a button ? > 4) bold for class side method and categories is too strong, I don't see any reason for that, we have panel titles and future ;) toggle button to know which side is. Some people (Laurent not toell who) complain about the lack of visibility. And indeed, I found than when you have multiples browsers, it helps a lot to find where you are in a second. > 5) OB had a #browserIcon method on classes who changed class icon on browser. This is really useful for knowing different types/hierarchies like errors, announcements, morphs, etc. Again, this collides with "uncommented" icon, but I would like to have them back... There are icons for Morph/Erros/Announcements/Magnitude/String/Collection/etc... But maybe I could also add a mechanism to let each class defines it's own icon. > 6) I'm sorry for saying this, but I don't like the icons, nor the colored options (source, bytecode, decompiled, etc.) at the side. I would prefer a combo on button panel... and better looking icons (yes Stef, FamFam icons is ok :) I will be really glad to use yours :) You know, I am kind of a programmer. It means that making icons is not my work. And due to that, it takes me ages to do them. I have no problem to change them at all, but I really don't have time to do them. > 7) Why we have a button panel (which is in fact a toolbar) in the middle of the browser and not where it belongs: on top? this is a remain of OB, who took this from old Browser... but conceptually (as in usability terms), this is a not-good solution. We could think on change this and place the button bar where it belongs (and add some cool keybindings too) You can't say that the hierarchy button is to far, and ask for putting the toolbar on top ^^ It's here because it's close to the lists (where you spend 20% of your time) and also close to the source code (where you spend 80% of your time). > 8) different sized buttons are a really bad concept. Yes... in Smalltalk this is very common: to create buttons with the size of text... but this is bad design because disrupts harmony, and that hurts to the eyes... and when something hurts, you try not to use it :) I can't agree more. But buttons are kind of a pain in the ass (because they are embedded into a group morph with its own layout etc). As soon as I can set vResizing: #rigid; hResizing: #rigid, I'll do it for sure ^^ > > yeah.. most of my observations are also for any other tool we have, and most are about usability... I humbly recommend (for all people doing GUIs), the lecture of this book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_Make_Me_Think. It is for web design, but is also a great guide when you want to make things people like. > > (Also, reading apple design guide is a good way to notice some interesting things... those guys had invest an insanely amount of time and money in development them) > I will try to find time to read them, but as I said, my exams are in 11 days so ;) Thanks for the feedback :) Ben > best, > Esteban >

March 8, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] GSoC: ARM jitter for Squeak VM

by Eliot Miranda

On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Nick Ager <nick.ager(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Elliot, > > I'm probably the least qualified of the people who have responded so far - > but if at all possible I'd love to try and help. > You're welcome too. > If you want something to do now, the first thing to do is to produce an >> ARM simulator plugin, analogous to the Bochs simulator. The first thing to >> do is go out and find a suitable software simulator, written in either C or >> C++ (cuz these suit the plugin compilation system) and play with it, >> configuring an ARM and running some simple assembler on it. >> > > In terms of ARM emulators a popular one seems to be QEMU [1] - the Android > simulator uses it. > Right, but this one is unsuitable because it does dynamic translation. Because the Squeak VM has a moving garbage collector and because, when simulating, the entire Cog heap, including generated machine-code, lives in a single ByteArray, the machine code generated by Cog, when simulating, can move. So the interface between the processor simulator and the generated machine code and memory must be based on virtual addresses. I'm pretty certain that a JIT like QEMU will use real addresses and so its own code generation would get confused by any movements of the Cog heap ByteArray. Hence it is I think better to stick with a simple interpretive simulator such as the Armulator <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARMulator>, and of course Bochs <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bochs>. BTW, the ARM is so simple that the core instruction set simulator in the ARM is only 1500 lines of C++ (including whitespace). So another approach might be to implement ARM in Smalltalk, e.g. by back-porting the Armulator code, although I expect it'll be significantly slower than optimized C++. > > Cheers > > Nick > > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QEMU > -- best, Eliot

March 8, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] GSoC: ARM jitter for Squeak VM

by Nick Ager

Hi Elliot, I'm probably the least qualified of the people who have responded so far - but if at all possible I'd love to try and help. If you want something to do now, the first thing to do is to produce an ARM > simulator plugin, analogous to the Bochs simulator. The first thing to do > is go out and find a suitable software simulator, written in either C or > C++ (cuz these suit the plugin compilation system) and play with it, > configuring an ARM and running some simple assembler on it. > In terms of ARM emulators a popular one seems to be QEMU [1] - the Android simulator uses it. Cheers Nick [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QEMU

March 8, 2012

[Pharo-project] more Nautilus feed back

by Esteban Lorenzano

Hi, I'm using Nautilus for my current projects since... well... couple of days, and I have some feedback: (yeah... maybe they are dumb reports, but that's because you did a great work with nautilus, I just have some really small observations :) 1) OB had double-click action: show hierarchy. I miss it a lot :( Also, hierarchy button is too far away when I want to see the hierarchy... ok, if you don't want to add double click functionality... can it be a menu option? (show hierarchy (h)) Even worst: it swaps panels which is very confusing... but that leads to point 2 :) 2) swap panel configuration is not working for me in latest pharo 1.4 3) I find "Class", "Instance" buttons very confusing. I liked more the older solution but well, I understand you want to improve visibility of comments, but then, I think class button would be better as a "toggle" button (those buttons who stays pressed) 4) bold for class side method and categories is too strong, I don't see any reason for that, we have panel titles and future ;) toggle button to know which side is. 5) OB had a #browserIcon method on classes who changed class icon on browser. This is really useful for knowing different types/hierarchies like errors, announcements, morphs, etc. Again, this collides with "uncommented" icon, but I would like to have them back... 6) I'm sorry for saying this, but I don't like the icons, nor the colored options (source, bytecode, decompiled, etc.) at the side. I would prefer a combo on button panel... and better looking icons (yes Stef, FamFam icons is ok :) 7) Why we have a button panel (which is in fact a toolbar) in the middle of the browser and not where it belongs: on top? this is a remain of OB, who took this from old Browser... but conceptually (as in usability terms), this is a not-good solution. We could think on change this and place the button bar where it belongs (and add some cool keybindings too) 8) different sized buttons are a really bad concept. Yes... in Smalltalk this is very common: to create buttons with the size of text... but this is bad design because disrupts harmony, and that hurts to the eyes... and when something hurts, you try not to use it :) yeah.. most of my observations are also for any other tool we have, and most are about usability... I humbly recommend (for all people doing GUIs), the lecture of this book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_Make_Me_Think. It is for web design, but is also a great guide when you want to make things people like. (Also, reading apple design guide is a good way to notice some interesting things... those guys had invest an insanely amount of time and money in development them) best, Esteban

March 8, 2012

[Pharo-project] vmPath vs vmFullPath

by Camillo Bruni

What are these two methods / primitives supposed to return? Under OSX StackVM StackInterpreter VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.139 I get the following: Smalltalk vmFullPath '/Applications/StackVM.app' Smalltalk vmPath '/Applications/StackVM.app/' according to the comments I should get the following Smalltalk vmFullPath '/Applications/StackVM.app/Contents/MacOS/StackVM' Smalltalk vmPath '/Applications/' or as well the quirky '/Applications/StackVM.app/Contents/MacOS/' As far as we understand vmPath should be the place where you go and look for the PharoV10.sources file, meaning the second option does not make a lot of sense here... best cami + damien

March 8, 2012