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Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo conf. Social Event

by Tudor Girba

I am in as well. Doru On 23 Apr 2012, at 21:08, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > I'm in :) > > On Apr 23, 2012, at 8:50 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > >> On 23 April 2012 19:25, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> For the conference, the lunches and coffee breaks are covered by INRIA and EMD. >>> >>> Now I would like to organize the social event for the thursday evening. Now our team cannot cover it because our budget is tight but I can have a really good restaurant (I know personally the cook). We could have a really good diner for around 30-35 Euros (with a cook cooking everything live in the back). Now I need to know who would like to join. You can come with your partners. >>> >>> So please let me know because like that I can book the restaurant. >>> >> if my company still not too boring, you can invite me with Lusy :) >> >>> Stef >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Igor Stasenko. > -- www.tudorgirba.com "It's not what we do that matters most, it's how we do it."

April 24, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] About Cypress [Was: Re: [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk]

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

When I tried long time ago to load (and I could at then end) all the versions of squeak into VW I faced the problems of the difference in format for floats. So how do you plan to handle that? Storing just strings? Stef On Apr 24, 2012, at 2:32 AM, Dale Henrichs wrote: > Igor, > > GemStone's Smalltalk parser/compiler is implemented in C ... I told you that JSON is and was a pragmatic choice ... > > The seaside JSON parser is 27 methods and runs without change in GemStone ... this is all covered in the other two threads, so maybe you should spend some time reading up on the issues that have already been hashed over twice so far... Oh wait, now there are now three threads that are covering the "why JSON" question:) > > Dale > > ----- Original Message ----- > | From: "Igor Stasenko" <siguctua(a)gmail.com> > | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > | Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 5:21:57 PM > | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] About Cypress [Was: Re: [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk] > | > | On 24 April 2012 03:17, Dale Henrichs <dhenrich(a)vmware.com> wrote: > | > Igor, > | > > | > A lot of your questions/assertions were addressed in the two > | > existing threads ... > | > > | > Smalltalk parsers are not available in all Smalltalk dialects, so > | > again, JSON is and was a pragmatic choice, pure and simple. > | > > | what? how is that? smalltalk which cannot parse smalltalk? but can > | parse JSON? ;) > | > | > The entire disk-based package structure has a number of warts of > | > varying sizes and qualities, but the one thing that is true is > | > that we have 5 Smalltalk dialects (with more coming) sharing the > | > same package structure and the same version control system ... > | > something that has never been true before and _that_ is the most > | > important thing right now... > | > > | that's out of the question > | > | > Dale > | > > | > ----- Original Message ----- > | > | From: "Igor Stasenko" <siguctua(a)gmail.com> > | > | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > | > | Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 4:07:04 PM > | > | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] About Cypress [Was: Re: [ANN] Styled > | > | Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk] > | > | > | > | On 24 April 2012 01:54, Dale Henrichs <dhenrich(a)vmware.com> > | > | wrote: > | > | > Igor, > | > | > > | > | > The short answer is: > | > | > > | > | > We could have used literal arrays, but it would have taken > | > | > more > | > | > work up > | > | > front than using the existing (portable) Seaside JSON parser. > | > | > > | > | umm.. what more work? Use if existing Smalltalk parser is more > | > | work? > | > | > | > | IMO, binding to JSON format and introducing dependency is more > | > | like a > | > | problem to me.. > | > | > | > | but anyways, since i late on party.. i don't wanna put sticks > | > | into > | > | already rotating wheel.. > | > | > | > | you made a decision, if it works for you, fine. > | > | > | > | P.S. I dealt with JSON when playing with SCouchDB project.. i > | > | wouldn't > | > | say that i adore this format. > | > | but it ok.. yeah.. everyone using it. Still s-expressions is IMO > | > | far > | > | more elegant. > | > | > | > | > | > | > At this point we have working implementations in 5 different > | > | > Smalltalk dialects > | > | > written to use JSON for properties files. > | > | > > | > | > Cypress is designed to be flexible. FileTree the original > | > | > Cypress > | > | > implementation > | > | > reads 3 different disk-based package. We're going to stick > | > | > with > | > | > the current > | > | > implementation for the foreseeable future while we expend our > | > | > effort on > | > | > problems for which we don't have ready-made solutions. > | > | > > | > | > Hannes has the correct link for the latter discussion, but the > | > | > original discussion took place at the beginning of Feb[1]. > | > | > > | > | > Dale > | > | > > | > | > [1] > | > | > http://forum.world.st/feedback-on-using-JSON-to-specify-baselines-for-git-r… > | > | > > | > | > > | > | > ----- Original Message ----- > | > | > | From: "Igor Stasenko" <siguctua(a)gmail.com> > | > | > | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > | > | > | Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 2:34:54 PM > | > | > | Subject: [Pharo-project] About Cypress [Was: Re: [ANN] Styled > | > | > | Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk] > | > | > | > | > | > | Hi, Dale > | > | > | > | > | > | it is great to see an effort in such direction. > | > | > | I just wonder what .js files doing there? > | > | > | > | > | > | According to what i see, it is just a meta data which holding > | > | > | additional properties per entity.. > | > | > | > | > | > | { > | > | > | "category" : "Cypress-Tests", > | > | > | "classinstvars" : [ > | > | > | ], > | > | > | "classtraitcomposition" : "{}", > | > | > | "classvars" : [ > | > | > | ], > | > | > | "commentStamp" : "", > | > | > | "instvars" : [ > | > | > | ], > | > | > | "name" : "CypressPatchTest", > | > | > | "pools" : [ > | > | > | ], > | > | > | "super" : "CypressAbstractTest", > | > | > | "traitcomposition" : "{}", > | > | > | "type" : "normal" } > | > | > | > | > | > | why you cannot use a regular smalltalk literal syntax for > | > | > | this > | > | > | data? > | > | > | What/why there is need to store this data in json format? > | > | > | > | > | > | On 23 April 2012 23:57, Dale Henrichs <dhenrich(a)vmware.com> > | > | > | wrote: > | > | > | > Bernhard, > | > | > | > > | > | > | > With regards to sharing code between dialects, I'd like to > | > | > | > recommend that you look into porting Cypress to Cuis (I'm > | > | > | > willing > | > | > | > to help as much as I can). > | > | > | > > | > | > | > The Cypress project is aimed from the get go to enable > | > | > | > sharing > | > | > | > of > | > | > | > packages between Smalltalk dialects with a recognition that > | > | > | > possibly the most important aspect is a shared VCS > | > | > | > (git/github). > | > | > | > > | > | > | > If you look at the current code base in Cypress, you will > | > | > | > see a > | > | > | > reference implementation written against Pharo. The > | > | > | > reference > | > | > | > implementation is a work in progress and the initial > | > | > | > implementation was done for Amber[2]. > | > | > | > > | > | > | > Cypress has Monticello-like packages, but other than taking > | > | > | > a > | > | > | > few > | > | > | > ideas from Monticello (definitions, packages and snapshots > | > | > | > ... > | > | > | > more than a few:)) the code base is independent of > | > | > | > Monticello. > | > | > | > The > | > | > | > fact that Cypress runs on top of Amber (sans file system > | > | > | > access) > | > | > | > speaks volumes for it's portability. > | > | > | > > | > | > | > To paraphrase a point from my STIC talk[3] on this subject: > | > | > | > > | > | > | > Cypress is not intended to be the primary version control > | > | > | > system for any dialect, however, if you want to share code > | > | > | > between dialects you should allow your developers to > | > | > | > import > | > | > | > and export code using the Cypress package format. > | > | > | > > | > | > | > If you are interested, there are bits and pieces of code in > | > | > | > a > | > | > | > few > | > | > | > other projects that I would want to pull into the Cypress > | > | > | > project > | > | > | > and couple other things that I'd like to move out of the > | > | > | > Cypress > | > | > | > project before tackling another port ... > | > | > | > > | > | > | > We can correspond via private email if you'd like to take > | > | > | > me up > | > | > | > on > | > | > | > the offer of help:) > | > | > | > > | > | > | > Dale > | > | > | > > | > | > | > [1] https://github.com/CampSmalltalk/Cypress > | > | > | > [2] https://github.com/CampSmalltalk/amber-cypress > | > | > | > [3] > | > | > | > http://portal.sliderocket.com/vmware/STIC-2012-Practical-Git-for-Smalltalk > | > | > | > > | > | > | > ----- Original Message ----- > | > | > | > | From: "Bernhard Pieber" <bernhard(a)pieber.com> > | > | > | > | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > | > | > | > | Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 9:53:35 AM > | > | > | > | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Styled Text Editor for > | > | > | > | Cuis > | > | > | > | 4.0 Smalltalk > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | Hi GÃ¶ran, > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | Thanks for your question! I have posted the announcement > | > | > | > | of > | > | > | > | the > | > | > | > | Styled Text Editor to the Pharo list as well because I > | > | > | > | still > | > | > | > | have > | > | > | > | not given up on the idea to port it to Squeak and Pharo. > | > | > | > | It > | > | > | > | is > | > | > | > | not > | > | > | > | straightforward but I consider it possible. > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | Currently the Styled Text Editor is an external package > | > | > | > | which > | > | > | > | is > | > | > | > | loaded on top of Cuis 4.0. The API it uses is quite > | > | > | > | specific > | > | > | > | to > | > | > | > | Cuis > | > | > | > | so to port it alone is probably too much effort. What I > | > | > | > | think > | > | > | > | can > | > | > | > | be > | > | > | > | done is the following: > | > | > | > | Split Cuis into three parts, > | > | > | > | a) the parts which are not needed for Styled Text Editor, > | > | > | > | like > | > | > | > | the > | > | > | > | Cuis tools > | > | > | > | b) the parts of Cuis Morphic the Styled Text Editor > | > | > | > | depends > | > | > | > | on â > | > | > | > | this > | > | > | > | is in my opinion the most valuable part of Cuis because > | > | > | > | Juan > | > | > | > | spent > | > | > | > | years cleaning it > | > | > | > | c) the Smalltalk kernel below > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | The idea is to port only part b) and the Styled Text > | > | > | > | Editor. > | > | > | > | And > | > | > | > | it > | > | > | > | has to be done automatically by a tool which creates > | > | > | > | packages > | > | > | > | for > | > | > | > | Squeak and Pharo, always from the latest code base. In > | > | > | > | addition > | > | > | > | you > | > | > | > | will probably need small Cuis portability packages done > | > | > | > | manually, > | > | > | > | one for Squeak and one for Pharo. > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | Being able to always load the latest code base of Styled > | > | > | > | Text > | > | > | > | Editor > | > | > | > | and Cuis Morphic as an external package in Pharo is a > | > | > | > | prerequisite > | > | > | > | to look into possibilities of sharing more of the code. > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | I plan to write a more detailed proposal and then to > | > | > | > | approach > | > | > | > | ESUG > | > | > | > | and ask for support for the funding. Any ideas for other > | > | > | > | sources > | > | > | > | of > | > | > | > | funding are highly welcome and could speed things up > | > | > | > | considerably, > | > | > | > | of course! ;-) > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | I for one have not given up on the idea that it might be > | > | > | > | possible > | > | > | > | to > | > | > | > | develop substantial components as you called it â thank > | > | > | > | you > | > | > | > | for > | > | > | > | that > | > | > | > | as well â in a more Squeak-dialect-independent way. ;-) > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | Finally, I would like to take the opportunity and kindly > | > | > | > | ask > | > | > | > | everyone > | > | > | > | who has not done so yet: Please check out Cuis 4.0 and > | > | > | > | the > | > | > | > | Styled > | > | > | > | Text Editor and give us feedback, even if it does not > | > | > | > | (yet) > | > | > | > | run > | > | > | > | on > | > | > | > | your favourite Squeak dialect! Thank you! > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | Peace, > | > | > | > | Bernhard > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | P.S. Thanks to GÃ¶ran and Janko for trying to establish > | > | > | > | different > | > | > | > | threads for the rather off-topic discussions that my > | > | > | > | announcement > | > | > | > | posting has caused. > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | Am 23.04.2012 um 16:04 schrieb GÃ¶ran Krampe: > | > | > | > | > Hi! > | > | > | > | > > | > | > | > | > On 04/23/2012 03:40 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > | > | > | > | >>> Just cloning it off into Pharo and forking seems... > | > | > | > | >>> less > | > | > | > | >>> optimal. > | > | > | > | >>> Any ideas or thoughts? > | > | > | > | >> > | > | > | > | >> I do not get what you mean. I just want to work on our > | > | > | > | >> roadmap > | > | > | > | >> and > | > | > | > | >> make it getting real. > | > | > | > | >> It is hard enough to get some momentum and to deliver > | > | > | > | >> for > | > | > | > | >> real. > | > | > | > | >> So can you help us to get focused? > | > | > | > | >> People can do what they want. I wrote a vision > | > | > | > | >> document. > | > | > | > | >> We > | > | > | > | >> have a > | > | > | > | >> roadmap > | > | > | > | >> and we will do it. > | > | > | > | > > | > | > | > | > Ok, let me clarify. I was just wondering how the Pharo > | > | > | > | > community > | > | > | > | > wants to handle a case where a substantial component > | > | > | > | > (in > | > | > | > | > this > | > | > | > | > case, this new editor) is not *primarily* developed in > | > | > | > | > Pharo > | > | > | > | > (in > | > | > | > | > this case Cuis). > | > | > | > | > > | > | > | > | > The simple route is to just copy and fork. But IMHO > | > | > | > | > this > | > | > | > | > doesn't > | > | > | > | > leverage the team already around this editor, right? We > | > | > | > | > (Pharo) > | > | > | > | > can't just go around and forking everything and > | > | > | > | > maintaining > | > | > | > | > everything for ourselves, right? > | > | > | > | > > | > | > | > | > I just got interested in that problem - now, later > | > | > | > | > replies > | > | > | > | > indicated that it would still need a substantial > | > | > | > | > rewrite > | > | > | > | > for > | > | > | > | > Pharo, so perhaps the situation I am describing is not > | > | > | > | > really > | > | > | > | > applicable in this case. > | > | > | > | > > | > | > | > | > regards, GÃ¶ran > | > | > | > | > > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | -- > | > | > | Best regards, > | > | > | Igor Stasenko. > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | -- > | > | Best regards, > | > | Igor Stasenko. > | > | > | > | > | > > | > | > | > | -- > | Best regards, > | Igor Stasenko. > | > | >

April 24, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] About Cypress [Was: Re: [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk]

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Apr 24, 2012, at 2:32 AM, Dale Henrichs wrote: > Igor, > > GemStone's Smalltalk parser/compiler is implemented in C â¦ This puzzled me a lot: so you cannot invoke it from Smalltalk? Then how do you compile code in Gemstome? Via the command line? As I said if this is only that we can write a parser for literal array. But yo should not say that you need a literal array syntax that support dictionaries because syntax and semantics are two different things. (x 33) (z 24) can be binding for dictionary. Stef > I told you that JSON is and was a pragmatic choice ... > > The seaside JSON parser is 27 methods and runs without change in GemStone ... this is all covered in the other two threads, so maybe you should spend some time reading up on the issues that have already been hashed over twice so far... Oh wait, now there are now three threads that are covering the "why JSON" question:) > > Dale > > ----- Original Message ----- > | From: "Igor Stasenko" <siguctua(a)gmail.com> > | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > | Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 5:21:57 PM > | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] About Cypress [Was: Re: [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk] > | > | On 24 April 2012 03:17, Dale Henrichs <dhenrich(a)vmware.com> wrote: > | > Igor, > | > > | > A lot of your questions/assertions were addressed in the two > | > existing threads ... > | > > | > Smalltalk parsers are not available in all Smalltalk dialects, so > | > again, JSON is and was a pragmatic choice, pure and simple. > | > > | what? how is that? smalltalk which cannot parse smalltalk? but can > | parse JSON? ;) > | > | > The entire disk-based package structure has a number of warts of > | > varying sizes and qualities, but the one thing that is true is > | > that we have 5 Smalltalk dialects (with more coming) sharing the > | > same package structure and the same version control system ... > | > something that has never been true before and _that_ is the most > | > important thing right now... > | > > | that's out of the question > | > | > Dale > | > > | > ----- Original Message ----- > | > | From: "Igor Stasenko" <siguctua(a)gmail.com> > | > | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > | > | Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 4:07:04 PM > | > | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] About Cypress [Was: Re: [ANN] Styled > | > | Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk] > | > | > | > | On 24 April 2012 01:54, Dale Henrichs <dhenrich(a)vmware.com> > | > | wrote: > | > | > Igor, > | > | > > | > | > The short answer is: > | > | > > | > | > We could have used literal arrays, but it would have taken > | > | > more > | > | > work up > | > | > front than using the existing (portable) Seaside JSON parser. > | > | > > | > | umm.. what more work? Use if existing Smalltalk parser is more > | > | work? > | > | > | > | IMO, binding to JSON format and introducing dependency is more > | > | like a > | > | problem to me.. > | > | > | > | but anyways, since i late on party.. i don't wanna put sticks > | > | into > | > | already rotating wheel.. > | > | > | > | you made a decision, if it works for you, fine. > | > | > | > | P.S. I dealt with JSON when playing with SCouchDB project.. i > | > | wouldn't > | > | say that i adore this format. > | > | but it ok.. yeah.. everyone using it. Still s-expressions is IMO > | > | far > | > | more elegant. > | > | > | > | > | > | > At this point we have working implementations in 5 different > | > | > Smalltalk dialects > | > | > written to use JSON for properties files. > | > | > > | > | > Cypress is designed to be flexible. FileTree the original > | > | > Cypress > | > | > implementation > | > | > reads 3 different disk-based package. We're going to stick > | > | > with > | > | > the current > | > | > implementation for the foreseeable future while we expend our > | > | > effort on > | > | > problems for which we don't have ready-made solutions. > | > | > > | > | > Hannes has the correct link for the latter discussion, but the > | > | > original discussion took place at the beginning of Feb[1]. > | > | > > | > | > Dale > | > | > > | > | > [1] > | > | > http://forum.world.st/feedback-on-using-JSON-to-specify-baselines-for-git-r… > | > | > > | > | > > | > | > ----- Original Message ----- > | > | > | From: "Igor Stasenko" <siguctua(a)gmail.com> > | > | > | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > | > | > | Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 2:34:54 PM > | > | > | Subject: [Pharo-project] About Cypress [Was: Re: [ANN] Styled > | > | > | Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk] > | > | > | > | > | > | Hi, Dale > | > | > | > | > | > | it is great to see an effort in such direction. > | > | > | I just wonder what .js files doing there? > | > | > | > | > | > | According to what i see, it is just a meta data which holding > | > | > | additional properties per entity.. > | > | > | > | > | > | { > | > | > | "category" : "Cypress-Tests", > | > | > | "classinstvars" : [ > | > | > | ], > | > | > | "classtraitcomposition" : "{}", > | > | > | "classvars" : [ > | > | > | ], > | > | > | "commentStamp" : "", > | > | > | "instvars" : [ > | > | > | ], > | > | > | "name" : "CypressPatchTest", > | > | > | "pools" : [ > | > | > | ], > | > | > | "super" : "CypressAbstractTest", > | > | > | "traitcomposition" : "{}", > | > | > | "type" : "normal" } > | > | > | > | > | > | why you cannot use a regular smalltalk literal syntax for > | > | > | this > | > | > | data? > | > | > | What/why there is need to store this data in json format? > | > | > | > | > | > | On 23 April 2012 23:57, Dale Henrichs <dhenrich(a)vmware.com> > | > | > | wrote: > | > | > | > Bernhard, > | > | > | > > | > | > | > With regards to sharing code between dialects, I'd like to > | > | > | > recommend that you look into porting Cypress to Cuis (I'm > | > | > | > willing > | > | > | > to help as much as I can). > | > | > | > > | > | > | > The Cypress project is aimed from the get go to enable > | > | > | > sharing > | > | > | > of > | > | > | > packages between Smalltalk dialects with a recognition that > | > | > | > possibly the most important aspect is a shared VCS > | > | > | > (git/github). > | > | > | > > | > | > | > If you look at the current code base in Cypress, you will > | > | > | > see a > | > | > | > reference implementation written against Pharo. The > | > | > | > reference > | > | > | > implementation is a work in progress and the initial > | > | > | > implementation was done for Amber[2]. > | > | > | > > | > | > | > Cypress has Monticello-like packages, but other than taking > | > | > | > a > | > | > | > few > | > | > | > ideas from Monticello (definitions, packages and snapshots > | > | > | > ... > | > | > | > more than a few:)) the code base is independent of > | > | > | > Monticello. > | > | > | > The > | > | > | > fact that Cypress runs on top of Amber (sans file system > | > | > | > access) > | > | > | > speaks volumes for it's portability. > | > | > | > > | > | > | > To paraphrase a point from my STIC talk[3] on this subject: > | > | > | > > | > | > | > Cypress is not intended to be the primary version control > | > | > | > system for any dialect, however, if you want to share code > | > | > | > between dialects you should allow your developers to > | > | > | > import > | > | > | > and export code using the Cypress package format. > | > | > | > > | > | > | > If you are interested, there are bits and pieces of code in > | > | > | > a > | > | > | > few > | > | > | > other projects that I would want to pull into the Cypress > | > | > | > project > | > | > | > and couple other things that I'd like to move out of the > | > | > | > Cypress > | > | > | > project before tackling another port ... > | > | > | > > | > | > | > We can correspond via private email if you'd like to take > | > | > | > me up > | > | > | > on > | > | > | > the offer of help:) > | > | > | > > | > | > | > Dale > | > | > | > > | > | > | > [1] https://github.com/CampSmalltalk/Cypress > | > | > | > [2] https://github.com/CampSmalltalk/amber-cypress > | > | > | > [3] > | > | > | > http://portal.sliderocket.com/vmware/STIC-2012-Practical-Git-for-Smalltalk > | > | > | > > | > | > | > ----- Original Message ----- > | > | > | > | From: "Bernhard Pieber" <bernhard(a)pieber.com> > | > | > | > | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > | > | > | > | Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 9:53:35 AM > | > | > | > | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Styled Text Editor for > | > | > | > | Cuis > | > | > | > | 4.0 Smalltalk > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | Hi GÃ¶ran, > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | Thanks for your question! I have posted the announcement > | > | > | > | of > | > | > | > | the > | > | > | > | Styled Text Editor to the Pharo list as well because I > | > | > | > | still > | > | > | > | have > | > | > | > | not given up on the idea to port it to Squeak and Pharo. > | > | > | > | It > | > | > | > | is > | > | > | > | not > | > | > | > | straightforward but I consider it possible. > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | Currently the Styled Text Editor is an external package > | > | > | > | which > | > | > | > | is > | > | > | > | loaded on top of Cuis 4.0. The API it uses is quite > | > | > | > | specific > | > | > | > | to > | > | > | > | Cuis > | > | > | > | so to port it alone is probably too much effort. What I > | > | > | > | think > | > | > | > | can > | > | > | > | be > | > | > | > | done is the following: > | > | > | > | Split Cuis into three parts, > | > | > | > | a) the parts which are not needed for Styled Text Editor, > | > | > | > | like > | > | > | > | the > | > | > | > | Cuis tools > | > | > | > | b) the parts of Cuis Morphic the Styled Text Editor > | > | > | > | depends > | > | > | > | on â > | > | > | > | this > | > | > | > | is in my opinion the most valuable part of Cuis because > | > | > | > | Juan > | > | > | > | spent > | > | > | > | years cleaning it > | > | > | > | c) the Smalltalk kernel below > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | The idea is to port only part b) and the Styled Text > | > | > | > | Editor. > | > | > | > | And > | > | > | > | it > | > | > | > | has to be done automatically by a tool which creates > | > | > | > | packages > | > | > | > | for > | > | > | > | Squeak and Pharo, always from the latest code base. In > | > | > | > | addition > | > | > | > | you > | > | > | > | will probably need small Cuis portability packages done > | > | > | > | manually, > | > | > | > | one for Squeak and one for Pharo. > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | Being able to always load the latest code base of Styled > | > | > | > | Text > | > | > | > | Editor > | > | > | > | and Cuis Morphic as an external package in Pharo is a > | > | > | > | prerequisite > | > | > | > | to look into possibilities of sharing more of the code. > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | I plan to write a more detailed proposal and then to > | > | > | > | approach > | > | > | > | ESUG > | > | > | > | and ask for support for the funding. Any ideas for other > | > | > | > | sources > | > | > | > | of > | > | > | > | funding are highly welcome and could speed things up > | > | > | > | considerably, > | > | > | > | of course! ;-) > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | I for one have not given up on the idea that it might be > | > | > | > | possible > | > | > | > | to > | > | > | > | develop substantial components as you called it â thank > | > | > | > | you > | > | > | > | for > | > | > | > | that > | > | > | > | as well â in a more Squeak-dialect-independent way. ;-) > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | Finally, I would like to take the opportunity and kindly > | > | > | > | ask > | > | > | > | everyone > | > | > | > | who has not done so yet: Please check out Cuis 4.0 and > | > | > | > | the > | > | > | > | Styled > | > | > | > | Text Editor and give us feedback, even if it does not > | > | > | > | (yet) > | > | > | > | run > | > | > | > | on > | > | > | > | your favourite Squeak dialect! Thank you! > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | Peace, > | > | > | > | Bernhard > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | P.S. Thanks to GÃ¶ran and Janko for trying to establish > | > | > | > | different > | > | > | > | threads for the rather off-topic discussions that my > | > | > | > | announcement > | > | > | > | posting has caused. > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | Am 23.04.2012 um 16:04 schrieb GÃ¶ran Krampe: > | > | > | > | > Hi! > | > | > | > | > > | > | > | > | > On 04/23/2012 03:40 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > | > | > | > | >>> Just cloning it off into Pharo and forking seems... > | > | > | > | >>> less > | > | > | > | >>> optimal. > | > | > | > | >>> Any ideas or thoughts? > | > | > | > | >> > | > | > | > | >> I do not get what you mean. I just want to work on our > | > | > | > | >> roadmap > | > | > | > | >> and > | > | > | > | >> make it getting real. > | > | > | > | >> It is hard enough to get some momentum and to deliver > | > | > | > | >> for > | > | > | > | >> real. > | > | > | > | >> So can you help us to get focused? > | > | > | > | >> People can do what they want. I wrote a vision > | > | > | > | >> document. > | > | > | > | >> We > | > | > | > | >> have a > | > | > | > | >> roadmap > | > | > | > | >> and we will do it. > | > | > | > | > > | > | > | > | > Ok, let me clarify. I was just wondering how the Pharo > | > | > | > | > community > | > | > | > | > wants to handle a case where a substantial component > | > | > | > | > (in > | > | > | > | > this > | > | > | > | > case, this new editor) is not *primarily* developed in > | > | > | > | > Pharo > | > | > | > | > (in > | > | > | > | > this case Cuis). > | > | > | > | > > | > | > | > | > The simple route is to just copy and fork. But IMHO > | > | > | > | > this > | > | > | > | > doesn't > | > | > | > | > leverage the team already around this editor, right? We > | > | > | > | > (Pharo) > | > | > | > | > can't just go around and forking everything and > | > | > | > | > maintaining > | > | > | > | > everything for ourselves, right? > | > | > | > | > > | > | > | > | > I just got interested in that problem - now, later > | > | > | > | > replies > | > | > | > | > indicated that it would still need a substantial > | > | > | > | > rewrite > | > | > | > | > for > | > | > | > | > Pharo, so perhaps the situation I am describing is not > | > | > | > | > really > | > | > | > | > applicable in this case. > | > | > | > | > > | > | > | > | > regards, GÃ¶ran > | > | > | > | > > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | -- > | > | > | Best regards, > | > | > | Igor Stasenko. > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | -- > | > | Best regards, > | > | Igor Stasenko. > | > | > | > | > | > > | > | > | > | -- > | Best regards, > | Igor Stasenko. > | > | >

April 24, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] About Cypress [Was: Re: [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk]

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Igor I completely agree and I propose to write a literal array platform independent parser but I gave up because this is discussion was emotional like let us JSON to attract people to Smalltalk wonderful idea. I think that it is stupid to use another syntax for storing meta-data. Stef On Apr 24, 2012, at 1:07 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > On 24 April 2012 01:54, Dale Henrichs <dhenrich(a)vmware.com> wrote: >> Igor, >> >> The short answer is: >> >> We could have used literal arrays, but it would have taken more work up >> front than using the existing (portable) Seaside JSON parser. >> > umm.. what more work? Use if existing Smalltalk parser is more work? > > IMO, binding to JSON format and introducing dependency is more like a > problem to me.. > > but anyways, since i late on party.. i don't wanna put sticks into > already rotating wheel.. > > you made a decision, if it works for you, fine. > > P.S. I dealt with JSON when playing with SCouchDB project.. i wouldn't > say that i adore this format. > but it ok.. yeah.. everyone using it. Still s-expressions is IMO far > more elegant. > > >> At this point we have working implementations in 5 different Smalltalk dialects >> written to use JSON for properties files. >> >> Cypress is designed to be flexible. FileTree the original Cypress implementation >> reads 3 different disk-based package. We're going to stick with the current >> implementation for the foreseeable future while we expend our effort on >> problems for which we don't have ready-made solutions. >> >> Hannes has the correct link for the latter discussion, but the original discussion took place at the beginning of Feb[1]. >> >> Dale >> >> [1] http://forum.world.st/feedback-on-using-JSON-to-specify-baselines-for-git-r… >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> | From: "Igor Stasenko" <siguctua(a)gmail.com> >> | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> | Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 2:34:54 PM >> | Subject: [Pharo-project] About Cypress [Was: Re: [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk] >> | >> | Hi, Dale >> | >> | it is great to see an effort in such direction. >> | I just wonder what .js files doing there? >> | >> | According to what i see, it is just a meta data which holding >> | additional properties per entity.. >> | >> | { >> | "category" : "Cypress-Tests", >> | "classinstvars" : [ >> | ], >> | "classtraitcomposition" : "{}", >> | "classvars" : [ >> | ], >> | "commentStamp" : "", >> | "instvars" : [ >> | ], >> | "name" : "CypressPatchTest", >> | "pools" : [ >> | ], >> | "super" : "CypressAbstractTest", >> | "traitcomposition" : "{}", >> | "type" : "normal" } >> | >> | why you cannot use a regular smalltalk literal syntax for this data? >> | What/why there is need to store this data in json format? >> | >> | On 23 April 2012 23:57, Dale Henrichs <dhenrich(a)vmware.com> wrote: >> | > Bernhard, >> | > >> | > With regards to sharing code between dialects, I'd like to >> | > recommend that you look into porting Cypress to Cuis (I'm willing >> | > to help as much as I can). >> | > >> | > The Cypress project is aimed from the get go to enable sharing of >> | > packages between Smalltalk dialects with a recognition that >> | > possibly the most important aspect is a shared VCS (git/github). >> | > >> | > If you look at the current code base in Cypress, you will see a >> | > reference implementation written against Pharo. The reference >> | > implementation is a work in progress and the initial >> | > implementation was done for Amber[2]. >> | > >> | > Cypress has Monticello-like packages, but other than taking a few >> | > ideas from Monticello (definitions, packages and snapshots ... >> | > more than a few:)) the code base is independent of Monticello. The >> | > fact that Cypress runs on top of Amber (sans file system access) >> | > speaks volumes for it's portability. >> | > >> | > To paraphrase a point from my STIC talk[3] on this subject: >> | > >> | > Cypress is not intended to be the primary version control >> | > system for any dialect, however, if you want to share code >> | > between dialects you should allow your developers to import >> | > and export code using the Cypress package format. >> | > >> | > If you are interested, there are bits and pieces of code in a few >> | > other projects that I would want to pull into the Cypress project >> | > and couple other things that I'd like to move out of the Cypress >> | > project before tackling another port ... >> | > >> | > We can correspond via private email if you'd like to take me up on >> | > the offer of help:) >> | > >> | > Dale >> | > >> | > [1] https://github.com/CampSmalltalk/Cypress >> | > [2] https://github.com/CampSmalltalk/amber-cypress >> | > [3] >> | > http://portal.sliderocket.com/vmware/STIC-2012-Practical-Git-for-Smalltalk >> | > >> | > ----- Original Message ----- >> | > | From: "Bernhard Pieber" <bernhard(a)pieber.com> >> | > | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> | > | Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 9:53:35 AM >> | > | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis >> | > | 4.0 Smalltalk >> | > | >> | > | Hi GÃ¶ran, >> | > | >> | > | Thanks for your question! I have posted the announcement of the >> | > | Styled Text Editor to the Pharo list as well because I still have >> | > | not given up on the idea to port it to Squeak and Pharo. It is >> | > | not >> | > | straightforward but I consider it possible. >> | > | >> | > | Currently the Styled Text Editor is an external package which is >> | > | loaded on top of Cuis 4.0. The API it uses is quite specific to >> | > | Cuis >> | > | so to port it alone is probably too much effort. What I think can >> | > | be >> | > | done is the following: >> | > | Split Cuis into three parts, >> | > | a) the parts which are not needed for Styled Text Editor, like >> | > | the >> | > | Cuis tools >> | > | b) the parts of Cuis Morphic the Styled Text Editor depends on â >> | > | this >> | > | is in my opinion the most valuable part of Cuis because Juan >> | > | spent >> | > | years cleaning it >> | > | c) the Smalltalk kernel below >> | > | >> | > | The idea is to port only part b) and the Styled Text Editor. And >> | > | it >> | > | has to be done automatically by a tool which creates packages for >> | > | Squeak and Pharo, always from the latest code base. In addition >> | > | you >> | > | will probably need small Cuis portability packages done manually, >> | > | one for Squeak and one for Pharo. >> | > | >> | > | Being able to always load the latest code base of Styled Text >> | > | Editor >> | > | and Cuis Morphic as an external package in Pharo is a >> | > | prerequisite >> | > | to look into possibilities of sharing more of the code. >> | > | >> | > | I plan to write a more detailed proposal and then to approach >> | > | ESUG >> | > | and ask for support for the funding. Any ideas for other sources >> | > | of >> | > | funding are highly welcome and could speed things up >> | > | considerably, >> | > | of course! ;-) >> | > | >> | > | I for one have not given up on the idea that it might be possible >> | > | to >> | > | develop substantial components as you called it â thank you for >> | > | that >> | > | as well â in a more Squeak-dialect-independent way. ;-) >> | > | >> | > | Finally, I would like to take the opportunity and kindly ask >> | > | everyone >> | > | who has not done so yet: Please check out Cuis 4.0 and the Styled >> | > | Text Editor and give us feedback, even if it does not (yet) run >> | > | on >> | > | your favourite Squeak dialect! Thank you! >> | > | >> | > | Peace, >> | > | Bernhard >> | > | >> | > | P.S. Thanks to GÃ¶ran and Janko for trying to establish different >> | > | threads for the rather off-topic discussions that my announcement >> | > | posting has caused. >> | > | >> | > | Am 23.04.2012 um 16:04 schrieb GÃ¶ran Krampe: >> | > | > Hi! >> | > | > >> | > | > On 04/23/2012 03:40 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> | > | >>> Just cloning it off into Pharo and forking seems... less >> | > | >>> optimal. >> | > | >>> Any ideas or thoughts? >> | > | >> >> | > | >> I do not get what you mean. I just want to work on our roadmap >> | > | >> and >> | > | >> make it getting real. >> | > | >> It is hard enough to get some momentum and to deliver for >> | > | >> real. >> | > | >> So can you help us to get focused? >> | > | >> People can do what they want. I wrote a vision document. We >> | > | >> have a >> | > | >> roadmap >> | > | >> and we will do it. >> | > | > >> | > | > Ok, let me clarify. I was just wondering how the Pharo >> | > | > community >> | > | > wants to handle a case where a substantial component (in this >> | > | > case, this new editor) is not *primarily* developed in Pharo >> | > | > (in >> | > | > this case Cuis). >> | > | > >> | > | > The simple route is to just copy and fork. But IMHO this >> | > | > doesn't >> | > | > leverage the team already around this editor, right? We (Pharo) >> | > | > can't just go around and forking everything and maintaining >> | > | > everything for ourselves, right? >> | > | > >> | > | > I just got interested in that problem - now, later replies >> | > | > indicated that it would still need a substantial rewrite for >> | > | > Pharo, so perhaps the situation I am describing is not really >> | > | > applicable in this case. >> | > | > >> | > | > regards, GÃ¶ran >> | > | > >> | > | >> | > | >> | > | >> | > >> | >> | >> | >> | -- >> | Best regards, >> | Igor Stasenko. >> | >> | >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. >

April 24, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] new icon set

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Apr 24, 2012, at 1:36 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > no, guys.. you lost me.. the things you propose is like stone age :) > > i want something which will give us much better things.. > like this one: > http://raphaeljs.com/icons/ > or this: > http://www.tehkseven.net/blog/1/entry-1066-475-free-awesome-high-quality-ic… yes but the license is unclear. "you can you them in any way you want is not that clear :)" Then ok but can we use vector graphics without athens-cairo? > > and they are in SVG format.. so you don't lose a bit of quality .. > never. anymore :) > > On 24 April 2012 01:44, Martin Sandiford <ms(a)mcdev.com.au> wrote: >> How about "cake" from the silk set? :) >> >> More seriously, what about "rosette"? >> >> I'm guessing that this is the set used: >> http://www.famfamfam.com/lab/icons/silk/previews/index_abc.png >> >> The bullets look kind of familiar from OmniBrowser test cases. >> >> Cheers, >> Martin >> >> On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 11:02 PM, Guillermo Polito >> <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> I like them. Except for the test runner one :P. Isn't there any other >>> nicer? >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. >

April 24, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk

by Dale Henrichs

Bernhard and Juan, I was curious enough about Cypress and Cuis to start a Cypress port to Cuis[1]. Loaded code and started working through tests: 19 run, 6 passed, 3 failed, 10 errors We'll see if I get any farther tonight:) Dale [1] https://github.com/CampSmalltalk/cuis-cypress ----- Original Message ----- | From: "Dale Henrichs" <dhenrich(a)vmware.com> | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 1:57:57 PM | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk | | Bernhard, | | With regards to sharing code between dialects, I'd like to recommend | that you look into porting Cypress to Cuis (I'm willing to help as | much as I can). | | The Cypress project is aimed from the get go to enable sharing of | packages between Smalltalk dialects with a recognition that possibly | the most important aspect is a shared VCS (git/github). | | If you look at the current code base in Cypress, you will see a | reference implementation written against Pharo. The reference | implementation is a work in progress and the initial implementation | was done for Amber[2]. | | Cypress has Monticello-like packages, but other than taking a few | ideas from Monticello (definitions, packages and snapshots ... more | than a few:)) the code base is independent of Monticello. The fact | that Cypress runs on top of Amber (sans file system access) speaks | volumes for it's portability. | | To paraphrase a point from my STIC talk[3] on this subject: | | Cypress is not intended to be the primary version control | system for any dialect, however, if you want to share code | between dialects you should allow your developers to import | and export code using the Cypress package format. | | If you are interested, there are bits and pieces of code in a few | other projects that I would want to pull into the Cypress project | and couple other things that I'd like to move out of the Cypress | project before tackling another port ... | | We can correspond via private email if you'd like to take me up on | the offer of help:) | | Dale | | [1] https://github.com/CampSmalltalk/Cypress | [2] https://github.com/CampSmalltalk/amber-cypress | [3] | http://portal.sliderocket.com/vmware/STIC-2012-Practical-Git-for-Smalltalk | | ----- Original Message ----- | | From: "Bernhard Pieber" <bernhard(a)pieber.com> | | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | | Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 9:53:35 AM | | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 | | Smalltalk | | | | Hi GÃ¶ran, | | | | Thanks for your question! I have posted the announcement of the | | Styled Text Editor to the Pharo list as well because I still have | | not given up on the idea to port it to Squeak and Pharo. It is not | | straightforward but I consider it possible. | | | | Currently the Styled Text Editor is an external package which is | | loaded on top of Cuis 4.0. The API it uses is quite specific to | | Cuis | | so to port it alone is probably too much effort. What I think can | | be | | done is the following: | | Split Cuis into three parts, | | a) the parts which are not needed for Styled Text Editor, like the | | Cuis tools | | b) the parts of Cuis Morphic the Styled Text Editor depends on â | | this | | is in my opinion the most valuable part of Cuis because Juan spent | | years cleaning it | | c) the Smalltalk kernel below | | | | The idea is to port only part b) and the Styled Text Editor. And it | | has to be done automatically by a tool which creates packages for | | Squeak and Pharo, always from the latest code base. In addition you | | will probably need small Cuis portability packages done manually, | | one for Squeak and one for Pharo. | | | | Being able to always load the latest code base of Styled Text | | Editor | | and Cuis Morphic as an external package in Pharo is a prerequisite | | to look into possibilities of sharing more of the code. | | | | I plan to write a more detailed proposal and then to approach ESUG | | and ask for support for the funding. Any ideas for other sources of | | funding are highly welcome and could speed things up considerably, | | of course! ;-) | | | | I for one have not given up on the idea that it might be possible | | to | | develop substantial components as you called it â thank you for | | that | | as well â in a more Squeak-dialect-independent way. ;-) | | | | Finally, I would like to take the opportunity and kindly ask | | everyone | | who has not done so yet: Please check out Cuis 4.0 and the Styled | | Text Editor and give us feedback, even if it does not (yet) run on | | your favourite Squeak dialect! Thank you! | | | | Peace, | | Bernhard | | | | P.S. Thanks to GÃ¶ran and Janko for trying to establish different | | threads for the rather off-topic discussions that my announcement | | posting has caused. | | | | Am 23.04.2012 um 16:04 schrieb GÃ¶ran Krampe: | | > Hi! | | > | | > On 04/23/2012 03:40 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: | | >>> Just cloning it off into Pharo and forking seems... less | | >>> optimal. | | >>> Any ideas or thoughts? | | >> | | >> I do not get what you mean. I just want to work on our roadmap | | >> and | | >> make it getting real. | | >> It is hard enough to get some momentum and to deliver for real. | | >> So can you help us to get focused? | | >> People can do what they want. I wrote a vision document. We have | | >> a | | >> roadmap | | >> and we will do it. | | > | | > Ok, let me clarify. I was just wondering how the Pharo community | | > wants to handle a case where a substantial component (in this | | > case, this new editor) is not *primarily* developed in Pharo (in | | > this case Cuis). | | > | | > The simple route is to just copy and fork. But IMHO this doesn't | | > leverage the team already around this editor, right? We (Pharo) | | > can't just go around and forking everything and maintaining | | > everything for ourselves, right? | | > | | > I just got interested in that problem - now, later replies | | > indicated that it would still need a substantial rewrite for | | > Pharo, so perhaps the situation I am describing is not really | | > applicable in this case. | | > | | > regards, GÃ¶ran | | > | | | | | | |

April 24, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk

by Juan Vuletich (mail lists)

Quoting David Graham <david(a)unthinkable.org>: > Would the Spoon project be relevant for this scenario? Craig > mentioned on the Spoon list that he is working with Cuis. Hi David, I think Spoon could be very useful. I'm waiting for some tutorial or howto on how to use Spoon for this. Cheers, Juan Vuletich > On 4/23/12 11:53 AM, Bernhard Pieber wrote: >> Hi GÃ¶ran, >> >> Thanks for your question! I have posted the announcement of the >> Styled Text Editor to the Pharo list as well because I still have >> not given up on the idea to port it to Squeak and Pharo. It is not >> straightforward but I consider it possible. >> >> Currently the Styled Text Editor is an external package which is >> loaded on top of Cuis 4.0. The API it uses is quite specific to >> Cuis so to port it alone is probably too much effort. What I think >> can be done is the following: >> Split Cuis into three parts, >> a) the parts which are not needed for Styled Text Editor, like the >> Cuis tools >> b) the parts of Cuis Morphic the Styled Text Editor depends on - >> this is in my opinion the most valuable part of Cuis because Juan >> spent years cleaning it >> c) the Smalltalk kernel below >> >> The idea is to port only part b) and the Styled Text Editor. And it >> has to be done automatically by a tool which creates packages for >> Squeak and Pharo, always from the latest code base. In addition you >> will probably need small Cuis portability packages done manually, >> one for Squeak and one for Pharo. >> >> Being able to always load the latest code base of Styled Text >> Editor and Cuis Morphic as an external package in Pharo is a >> prerequisite to look into possibilities of sharing more of the code. >> >> I plan to write a more detailed proposal and then to approach ESUG >> and ask for support for the funding. Any ideas for other sources of >> funding are highly welcome and could speed things up considerably, >> of course! ;-) >> >> I for one have not given up on the idea that it might be possible >> to develop substantial components as you called it - thank you for >> that as well - in a more Squeak-dialect-independent way. ;-) >> >> Finally, I would like to take the opportunity and kindly ask >> everyone who has not done so yet: Please check out Cuis 4.0 and the >> Styled Text Editor and give us feedback, even if it does not (yet) >> run on your favourite Squeak dialect! Thank you! >> >> Peace, >> Bernhard >> >> P.S. Thanks to GÃ¶ran and Janko for trying to establish different >> threads for the rather off-topic discussions that my announcement >> posting has caused. >> >> Am 23.04.2012 um 16:04 schrieb GÃ¶ran Krampe: >>> Hi! >>> >>> On 04/23/2012 03:40 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >>>>> Just cloning it off into Pharo and forking seems... less >>>>> optimal. Any ideas or thoughts? >>>> I do not get what you mean. I just want to work on our roadmap >>>> and make it getting real. >>>> It is hard enough to get some momentum and to deliver for real. >>>> So can you help us to get focused? >>>> People can do what they want. I wrote a vision document. We have a roadmap >>>> and we will do it. >>> Ok, let me clarify. I was just wondering how the Pharo community >>> wants to handle a case where a substantial component (in this >>> case, this new editor) is not *primarily* developed in Pharo (in >>> this case Cuis). >>> >>> The simple route is to just copy and fork. But IMHO this doesn't >>> leverage the team already around this editor, right? We (Pharo) >>> can't just go around and forking everything and maintaining >>> everything for ourselves, right? >>> >>> I just got interested in that problem - now, later replies >>> indicated that it would still need a substantial rewrite for >>> Pharo, so perhaps the situation I am describing is not really >>> applicable in this case. >>> >>> regards, GÃ¶ran >>> >> > > >

April 24, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] About Cypress [Was: Re: [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk]

by Dale Henrichs

Igor, GemStone's Smalltalk parser/compiler is implemented in C ... I told you that JSON is and was a pragmatic choice ... The seaside JSON parser is 27 methods and runs without change in GemStone ... this is all covered in the other two threads, so maybe you should spend some time reading up on the issues that have already been hashed over twice so far... Oh wait, now there are now three threads that are covering the "why JSON" question:) Dale ----- Original Message ----- | From: "Igor Stasenko" <siguctua(a)gmail.com> | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 5:21:57 PM | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] About Cypress [Was: Re: [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk] | | On 24 April 2012 03:17, Dale Henrichs <dhenrich(a)vmware.com> wrote: | > Igor, | > | > A lot of your questions/assertions were addressed in the two | > existing threads ... | > | > Smalltalk parsers are not available in all Smalltalk dialects, so | > again, JSON is and was a pragmatic choice, pure and simple. | > | what? how is that? smalltalk which cannot parse smalltalk? but can | parse JSON? ;) | | > The entire disk-based package structure has a number of warts of | > varying sizes and qualities, but the one thing that is true is | > that we have 5 Smalltalk dialects (with more coming) sharing the | > same package structure and the same version control system ... | > something that has never been true before and _that_ is the most | > important thing right now... | > | that's out of the question | | > Dale | > | > ----- Original Message ----- | > | From: "Igor Stasenko" <siguctua(a)gmail.com> | > | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | > | Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 4:07:04 PM | > | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] About Cypress [Was: Re: [ANN] Styled | > | Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk] | > | | > | On 24 April 2012 01:54, Dale Henrichs <dhenrich(a)vmware.com> | > | wrote: | > | > Igor, | > | > | > | > The short answer is: | > | > | > | > Â We could have used literal arrays, but it would have taken | > | > Â more | > | > Â work up | > | > Â front than using the existing (portable) Seaside JSON parser. | > | > | > | umm.. what more work? Use if existing Smalltalk parser is more | > | work? | > | | > | IMO, binding to JSON format and introducing dependency is more | > | like a | > | problem to me.. | > | | > | but anyways, since i late on party.. i don't wanna put sticks | > | into | > | already rotating wheel.. | > | | > | you made a decision, if it works for you, fine. | > | | > | P.S. I dealt with JSON when playing with SCouchDB project.. i | > | wouldn't | > | say that i adore this format. | > | but it ok.. yeah.. everyone using it. Still s-expressions is IMO | > | far | > | more elegant. | > | | > | | > | > Â At this point we have working implementations in 5 different | > | > Â Smalltalk dialects | > | > Â written to use JSON for properties files. | > | > | > | > Â Cypress is designed to be flexible. FileTree the original | > | > Â Cypress | > | > Â implementation | > | > Â reads 3 different disk-based package. We're going to stick | > | > Â with | > | > Â the current | > | > Â implementation for the foreseeable future while we expend our | > | > Â effort on | > | > Â problems for which we don't have ready-made solutions. | > | > | > | > Hannes has the correct link for the latter discussion, but the | > | > original discussion took place at the beginning of Feb[1]. | > | > | > | > Dale | > | > | > | > [1] | > | > http://forum.world.st/feedback-on-using-JSON-to-specify-baselines-for-git-r… | > | > | > | > | > | > ----- Original Message ----- | > | > | From: "Igor Stasenko" <siguctua(a)gmail.com> | > | > | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | > | > | Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 2:34:54 PM | > | > | Subject: [Pharo-project] About Cypress [Was: Re: [ANN] Styled | > | > | Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk] | > | > | | > | > | Hi, Dale | > | > | | > | > | it is great to see an effort in such direction. | > | > | I just wonder what .js files doing there? | > | > | | > | > | According to what i see, it is just a meta data which holding | > | > | additional properties per entity.. | > | > | | > | > | { | > | > | "category" : "Cypress-Tests", | > | > | "classinstvars" : [ | > | > | ], | > | > | "classtraitcomposition" : "{}", | > | > | "classvars" : [ | > | > | ], | > | > | "commentStamp" : "", | > | > | "instvars" : [ | > | > | ], | > | > | "name" : "CypressPatchTest", | > | > | "pools" : [ | > | > | ], | > | > | "super" : "CypressAbstractTest", | > | > | "traitcomposition" : "{}", | > | > | "type" : "normal" } | > | > | | > | > | why you cannot use a regular smalltalk literal syntax for | > | > | this | > | > | data? | > | > | What/why there is need to store this data in json format? | > | > | | > | > | On 23 April 2012 23:57, Dale Henrichs <dhenrich(a)vmware.com> | > | > | wrote: | > | > | > Bernhard, | > | > | > | > | > | > With regards to sharing code between dialects, I'd like to | > | > | > recommend that you look into porting Cypress to Cuis (I'm | > | > | > willing | > | > | > to help as much as I can). | > | > | > | > | > | > The Cypress project is aimed from the get go to enable | > | > | > sharing | > | > | > of | > | > | > packages between Smalltalk dialects with a recognition that | > | > | > possibly the most important aspect is a shared VCS | > | > | > (git/github). | > | > | > | > | > | > If you look at the current code base in Cypress, you will | > | > | > see a | > | > | > reference implementation written against Pharo. The | > | > | > reference | > | > | > implementation is a work in progress and the initial | > | > | > implementation was done for Amber[2]. | > | > | > | > | > | > Cypress has Monticello-like packages, but other than taking | > | > | > a | > | > | > few | > | > | > ideas from Monticello (definitions, packages and snapshots | > | > | > ... | > | > | > more than a few:)) the code base is independent of | > | > | > Monticello. | > | > | > The | > | > | > fact that Cypress runs on top of Amber (sans file system | > | > | > access) | > | > | > speaks volumes for it's portability. | > | > | > | > | > | > To paraphrase a point from my STIC talk[3] on this subject: | > | > | > | > | > | > Â Cypress is not intended to be the primary version control | > | > | > Â system for any dialect, however, if you want to share code | > | > | > Â between dialects you should allow your developers to | > | > | > Â import | > | > | > Â and export code using the Cypress package format. | > | > | > | > | > | > If you are interested, there are bits and pieces of code in | > | > | > a | > | > | > few | > | > | > other projects that I would want to pull into the Cypress | > | > | > project | > | > | > and couple other things that I'd like to move out of the | > | > | > Cypress | > | > | > project before tackling another port ... | > | > | > | > | > | > We can correspond via private email if you'd like to take | > | > | > me up | > | > | > on | > | > | > the offer of help:) | > | > | > | > | > | > Dale | > | > | > | > | > | > [1] https://github.com/CampSmalltalk/Cypress | > | > | > [2] https://github.com/CampSmalltalk/amber-cypress | > | > | > [3] | > | > | > http://portal.sliderocket.com/vmware/STIC-2012-Practical-Git-for-Smalltalk | > | > | > | > | > | > ----- Original Message ----- | > | > | > | From: "Bernhard Pieber" <bernhard(a)pieber.com> | > | > | > | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | > | > | > | Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 9:53:35 AM | > | > | > | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Styled Text Editor for | > | > | > | Cuis | > | > | > | 4.0 Smalltalk | > | > | > | | > | > | > | Hi GÃ¶ran, | > | > | > | | > | > | > | Thanks for your question! I have posted the announcement | > | > | > | of | > | > | > | the | > | > | > | Styled Text Editor to the Pharo list as well because I | > | > | > | still | > | > | > | have | > | > | > | not given up on the idea to port it to Squeak and Pharo. | > | > | > | It | > | > | > | is | > | > | > | not | > | > | > | straightforward but I consider it possible. | > | > | > | | > | > | > | Currently the Styled Text Editor is an external package | > | > | > | which | > | > | > | is | > | > | > | loaded on top of Cuis 4.0. The API it uses is quite | > | > | > | specific | > | > | > | to | > | > | > | Cuis | > | > | > | so to port it alone is probably too much effort. What I | > | > | > | think | > | > | > | can | > | > | > | be | > | > | > | done is the following: | > | > | > | Split Cuis into three parts, | > | > | > | a) the parts which are not needed for Styled Text Editor, | > | > | > | like | > | > | > | the | > | > | > | Cuis tools | > | > | > | b) the parts of Cuis Morphic the Styled Text Editor | > | > | > | depends | > | > | > | on â | > | > | > | this | > | > | > | is in my opinion the most valuable part of Cuis because | > | > | > | Juan | > | > | > | spent | > | > | > | years cleaning it | > | > | > | c) the Smalltalk kernel below | > | > | > | | > | > | > | The idea is to port only part b) and the Styled Text | > | > | > | Editor. | > | > | > | And | > | > | > | it | > | > | > | has to be done automatically by a tool which creates | > | > | > | packages | > | > | > | for | > | > | > | Squeak and Pharo, always from the latest code base. In | > | > | > | addition | > | > | > | you | > | > | > | will probably need small Cuis portability packages done | > | > | > | manually, | > | > | > | one for Squeak and one for Pharo. | > | > | > | | > | > | > | Being able to always load the latest code base of Styled | > | > | > | Text | > | > | > | Editor | > | > | > | and Cuis Morphic as an external package in Pharo is a | > | > | > | prerequisite | > | > | > | to look into possibilities of sharing more of the code. | > | > | > | | > | > | > | I plan to write a more detailed proposal and then to | > | > | > | approach | > | > | > | ESUG | > | > | > | and ask for support for the funding. Any ideas for other | > | > | > | sources | > | > | > | of | > | > | > | funding are highly welcome and could speed things up | > | > | > | considerably, | > | > | > | of course! ;-) | > | > | > | | > | > | > | I for one have not given up on the idea that it might be | > | > | > | possible | > | > | > | to | > | > | > | develop substantial components as you called it â thank | > | > | > | you | > | > | > | for | > | > | > | that | > | > | > | as well â in a more Squeak-dialect-independent way. ;-) | > | > | > | | > | > | > | Finally, I would like to take the opportunity and kindly | > | > | > | ask | > | > | > | everyone | > | > | > | who has not done so yet: Please check out Cuis 4.0 and | > | > | > | the | > | > | > | Styled | > | > | > | Text Editor and give us feedback, even if it does not | > | > | > | (yet) | > | > | > | run | > | > | > | on | > | > | > | your favourite Squeak dialect! Thank you! | > | > | > | | > | > | > | Peace, | > | > | > | Bernhard | > | > | > | | > | > | > | P.S. Thanks to GÃ¶ran and Janko for trying to establish | > | > | > | different | > | > | > | threads for the rather off-topic discussions that my | > | > | > | announcement | > | > | > | posting has caused. | > | > | > | | > | > | > | Am 23.04.2012 um 16:04 schrieb GÃ¶ran Krampe: | > | > | > | > Hi! | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > On 04/23/2012 03:40 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: | > | > | > | >>> Just cloning it off into Pharo and forking seems... | > | > | > | >>> less | > | > | > | >>> optimal. | > | > | > | >>> Any ideas or thoughts? | > | > | > | >> | > | > | > | >> I do not get what you mean. I just want to work on our | > | > | > | >> roadmap | > | > | > | >> and | > | > | > | >> make it getting real. | > | > | > | >> It is hard enough to get some momentum and to deliver | > | > | > | >> for | > | > | > | >> real. | > | > | > | >> So can you help us to get focused? | > | > | > | >> People can do what they want. I wrote a vision | > | > | > | >> document. | > | > | > | >> We | > | > | > | >> have a | > | > | > | >> roadmap | > | > | > | >> and we will do it. | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > Ok, let me clarify. I was just wondering how the Pharo | > | > | > | > community | > | > | > | > wants to handle a case where a substantial component | > | > | > | > (in | > | > | > | > this | > | > | > | > case, this new editor) is not *primarily* developed in | > | > | > | > Pharo | > | > | > | > (in | > | > | > | > this case Cuis). | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > The simple route is to just copy and fork. But IMHO | > | > | > | > this | > | > | > | > doesn't | > | > | > | > leverage the team already around this editor, right? We | > | > | > | > (Pharo) | > | > | > | > can't just go around and forking everything and | > | > | > | > maintaining | > | > | > | > everything for ourselves, right? | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > I just got interested in that problem - now, later | > | > | > | > replies | > | > | > | > indicated that it would still need a substantial | > | > | > | > rewrite | > | > | > | > for | > | > | > | > Pharo, so perhaps the situation I am describing is not | > | > | > | > really | > | > | > | > applicable in this case. | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > regards, GÃ¶ran | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | | > | > | > | | > | > | > | | > | > | > | > | > | | > | > | | > | > | | > | > | -- | > | > | Best regards, | > | > | Igor Stasenko. | > | > | | > | > | | > | > | > | | > | | > | | > | -- | > | Best regards, | > | Igor Stasenko. | > | | > | | > | | | | -- | Best regards, | Igor Stasenko. | |

April 24, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Redline Smalltalk ... (St?phane Ducasse)

by Igor Stasenko

On 24 April 2012 02:10, James Ladd <james_ladd(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > Yes, information about Redline will be in its mailing list > here: http://groups.google.com/group/redline-smalltalk > > I hope you are ok with announcement style things here? as long as you won't start saying "throw away yours, use mine" it is fine. :) -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

April 24, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] About Cypress [Was: Re: [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk]

by Igor Stasenko

On 24 April 2012 03:17, Dale Henrichs <dhenrich(a)vmware.com> wrote: > Igor, > > A lot of your questions/assertions were addressed in the two existing threads ... > > Smalltalk parsers are not available in all Smalltalk dialects, so again, JSON is and was a pragmatic choice, pure and simple. > what? how is that? smalltalk which cannot parse smalltalk? but can parse JSON? ;) > The entire disk-based package structure has a number of warts of varying sizes and qualities, but the one thing that is true is that we have 5 Smalltalk dialects (with more coming) sharing the same package structure and the same version control system ... something that has never been true before and _that_ is the most important thing right now... > that's out of the question > Dale > > ----- Original Message ----- > | From: "Igor Stasenko" <siguctua(a)gmail.com> > | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > | Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 4:07:04 PM > | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] About Cypress [Was: Re: [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk] > | > | On 24 April 2012 01:54, Dale Henrichs <dhenrich(a)vmware.com> wrote: > | > Igor, > | > > | > The short answer is: > | > > | > Â We could have used literal arrays, but it would have taken more > | > Â work up > | > Â front than using the existing (portable) Seaside JSON parser. > | > > | umm.. what more work? Use if existing Smalltalk parser is more work? > | > | IMO, binding to JSON format and introducing dependency is more like a > | problem to me.. > | > | but anyways, since i late on party.. i don't wanna put sticks into > | already rotating wheel.. > | > | you made a decision, if it works for you, fine. > | > | P.S. I dealt with JSON when playing with SCouchDB project.. i > | wouldn't > | say that i adore this format. > | but it ok.. yeah.. everyone using it. Still s-expressions is IMO far > | more elegant. > | > | > | > Â At this point we have working implementations in 5 different > | > Â Smalltalk dialects > | > Â written to use JSON for properties files. > | > > | > Â Cypress is designed to be flexible. FileTree the original Cypress > | > Â implementation > | > Â reads 3 different disk-based package. We're going to stick with > | > Â the current > | > Â implementation for the foreseeable future while we expend our > | > Â effort on > | > Â problems for which we don't have ready-made solutions. > | > > | > Hannes has the correct link for the latter discussion, but the > | > original discussion took place at the beginning of Feb[1]. > | > > | > Dale > | > > | > [1] > | > http://forum.world.st/feedback-on-using-JSON-to-specify-baselines-for-git-r… > | > > | > > | > ----- Original Message ----- > | > | From: "Igor Stasenko" <siguctua(a)gmail.com> > | > | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > | > | Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 2:34:54 PM > | > | Subject: [Pharo-project] About Cypress [Was: Re: [ANN] Styled > | > | Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk] > | > | > | > | Hi, Dale > | > | > | > | it is great to see an effort in such direction. > | > | I just wonder what .js files doing there? > | > | > | > | According to what i see, it is just a meta data which holding > | > | additional properties per entity.. > | > | > | > | { > | > | "category" : "Cypress-Tests", > | > | "classinstvars" : [ > | > | ], > | > | "classtraitcomposition" : "{}", > | > | "classvars" : [ > | > | ], > | > | "commentStamp" : "", > | > | "instvars" : [ > | > | ], > | > | "name" : "CypressPatchTest", > | > | "pools" : [ > | > | ], > | > | "super" : "CypressAbstractTest", > | > | "traitcomposition" : "{}", > | > | "type" : "normal" } > | > | > | > | why you cannot use a regular smalltalk literal syntax for this > | > | data? > | > | What/why there is need to store this data in json format? > | > | > | > | On 23 April 2012 23:57, Dale Henrichs <dhenrich(a)vmware.com> > | > | wrote: > | > | > Bernhard, > | > | > > | > | > With regards to sharing code between dialects, I'd like to > | > | > recommend that you look into porting Cypress to Cuis (I'm > | > | > willing > | > | > to help as much as I can). > | > | > > | > | > The Cypress project is aimed from the get go to enable sharing > | > | > of > | > | > packages between Smalltalk dialects with a recognition that > | > | > possibly the most important aspect is a shared VCS > | > | > (git/github). > | > | > > | > | > If you look at the current code base in Cypress, you will see a > | > | > reference implementation written against Pharo. The reference > | > | > implementation is a work in progress and the initial > | > | > implementation was done for Amber[2]. > | > | > > | > | > Cypress has Monticello-like packages, but other than taking a > | > | > few > | > | > ideas from Monticello (definitions, packages and snapshots ... > | > | > more than a few:)) the code base is independent of Monticello. > | > | > The > | > | > fact that Cypress runs on top of Amber (sans file system > | > | > access) > | > | > speaks volumes for it's portability. > | > | > > | > | > To paraphrase a point from my STIC talk[3] on this subject: > | > | > > | > | > Â Cypress is not intended to be the primary version control > | > | > Â system for any dialect, however, if you want to share code > | > | > Â between dialects you should allow your developers to import > | > | > Â and export code using the Cypress package format. > | > | > > | > | > If you are interested, there are bits and pieces of code in a > | > | > few > | > | > other projects that I would want to pull into the Cypress > | > | > project > | > | > and couple other things that I'd like to move out of the > | > | > Cypress > | > | > project before tackling another port ... > | > | > > | > | > We can correspond via private email if you'd like to take me up > | > | > on > | > | > the offer of help:) > | > | > > | > | > Dale > | > | > > | > | > [1] https://github.com/CampSmalltalk/Cypress > | > | > [2] https://github.com/CampSmalltalk/amber-cypress > | > | > [3] > | > | > http://portal.sliderocket.com/vmware/STIC-2012-Practical-Git-for-Smalltalk > | > | > > | > | > ----- Original Message ----- > | > | > | From: "Bernhard Pieber" <bernhard(a)pieber.com> > | > | > | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > | > | > | Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 9:53:35 AM > | > | > | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Styled Text Editor for > | > | > | Cuis > | > | > | 4.0 Smalltalk > | > | > | > | > | > | Hi GÃ¶ran, > | > | > | > | > | > | Thanks for your question! I have posted the announcement of > | > | > | the > | > | > | Styled Text Editor to the Pharo list as well because I still > | > | > | have > | > | > | not given up on the idea to port it to Squeak and Pharo. It > | > | > | is > | > | > | not > | > | > | straightforward but I consider it possible. > | > | > | > | > | > | Currently the Styled Text Editor is an external package which > | > | > | is > | > | > | loaded on top of Cuis 4.0. The API it uses is quite specific > | > | > | to > | > | > | Cuis > | > | > | so to port it alone is probably too much effort. What I think > | > | > | can > | > | > | be > | > | > | done is the following: > | > | > | Split Cuis into three parts, > | > | > | a) the parts which are not needed for Styled Text Editor, > | > | > | like > | > | > | the > | > | > | Cuis tools > | > | > | b) the parts of Cuis Morphic the Styled Text Editor depends > | > | > | on â > | > | > | this > | > | > | is in my opinion the most valuable part of Cuis because Juan > | > | > | spent > | > | > | years cleaning it > | > | > | c) the Smalltalk kernel below > | > | > | > | > | > | The idea is to port only part b) and the Styled Text Editor. > | > | > | And > | > | > | it > | > | > | has to be done automatically by a tool which creates packages > | > | > | for > | > | > | Squeak and Pharo, always from the latest code base. In > | > | > | addition > | > | > | you > | > | > | will probably need small Cuis portability packages done > | > | > | manually, > | > | > | one for Squeak and one for Pharo. > | > | > | > | > | > | Being able to always load the latest code base of Styled Text > | > | > | Editor > | > | > | and Cuis Morphic as an external package in Pharo is a > | > | > | prerequisite > | > | > | to look into possibilities of sharing more of the code. > | > | > | > | > | > | I plan to write a more detailed proposal and then to approach > | > | > | ESUG > | > | > | and ask for support for the funding. Any ideas for other > | > | > | sources > | > | > | of > | > | > | funding are highly welcome and could speed things up > | > | > | considerably, > | > | > | of course! ;-) > | > | > | > | > | > | I for one have not given up on the idea that it might be > | > | > | possible > | > | > | to > | > | > | develop substantial components as you called it â thank you > | > | > | for > | > | > | that > | > | > | as well â in a more Squeak-dialect-independent way. ;-) > | > | > | > | > | > | Finally, I would like to take the opportunity and kindly ask > | > | > | everyone > | > | > | who has not done so yet: Please check out Cuis 4.0 and the > | > | > | Styled > | > | > | Text Editor and give us feedback, even if it does not (yet) > | > | > | run > | > | > | on > | > | > | your favourite Squeak dialect! Thank you! > | > | > | > | > | > | Peace, > | > | > | Bernhard > | > | > | > | > | > | P.S. Thanks to GÃ¶ran and Janko for trying to establish > | > | > | different > | > | > | threads for the rather off-topic discussions that my > | > | > | announcement > | > | > | posting has caused. > | > | > | > | > | > | Am 23.04.2012 um 16:04 schrieb GÃ¶ran Krampe: > | > | > | > Hi! > | > | > | > > | > | > | > On 04/23/2012 03:40 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > | > | > | >>> Just cloning it off into Pharo and forking seems... less > | > | > | >>> optimal. > | > | > | >>> Any ideas or thoughts? > | > | > | >> > | > | > | >> I do not get what you mean. I just want to work on our > | > | > | >> roadmap > | > | > | >> and > | > | > | >> make it getting real. > | > | > | >> It is hard enough to get some momentum and to deliver for > | > | > | >> real. > | > | > | >> So can you help us to get focused? > | > | > | >> People can do what they want. I wrote a vision document. > | > | > | >> We > | > | > | >> have a > | > | > | >> roadmap > | > | > | >> and we will do it. > | > | > | > > | > | > | > Ok, let me clarify. I was just wondering how the Pharo > | > | > | > community > | > | > | > wants to handle a case where a substantial component (in > | > | > | > this > | > | > | > case, this new editor) is not *primarily* developed in > | > | > | > Pharo > | > | > | > (in > | > | > | > this case Cuis). > | > | > | > > | > | > | > The simple route is to just copy and fork. But IMHO this > | > | > | > doesn't > | > | > | > leverage the team already around this editor, right? We > | > | > | > (Pharo) > | > | > | > can't just go around and forking everything and maintaining > | > | > | > everything for ourselves, right? > | > | > | > > | > | > | > I just got interested in that problem - now, later replies > | > | > | > indicated that it would still need a substantial rewrite > | > | > | > for > | > | > | > Pharo, so perhaps the situation I am describing is not > | > | > | > really > | > | > | > applicable in this case. > | > | > | > > | > | > | > regards, GÃ¶ran > | > | > | > > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | -- > | > | Best regards, > | > | Igor Stasenko. > | > | > | > | > | > > | > | > | > | -- > | Best regards, > | Igor Stasenko. > | > | > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

April 24, 2012

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