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Re: [Pharo-project] STON (was Re: SimpleLiteralArray Spec)

by Dale Henrichs

Sven, Just an off-the-wall thought... If JSON were a subset of STON ... or possibly STON would recognize JSON and parse despite the different syntax...we'd have a nice multipurpose parser/writer that could speak JSON or STON interchangeably... Dale ----- Original Message ----- | From: "Sven Van Caekenberghe" <sven(a)beta9.be> | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 10:35:49 AM | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] STON (was Re: SimpleLiteralArray Spec) | | | On 24 Apr 2012, at 19:22, Dale Henrichs wrote: | | > Sven, | > | > I looked at your sample document in the pdf: | > | > TestDomainObject { | > #created : DateAndTime [ '2012-02-14T16:40:15+01:00' ], | > #modified : DateAndTime [ '2012-02-14T16:40:18+01:00' ], | > #integer : 39581, | > #float : 73.84789359463944, | > #description : 'This is a test', | > #color : #green, | > #tags : [ | > #two, | > #beta, | > #medium | > ], | > #bytes : ByteArray [ 'afabfdf61d030f43eb67960c0ae9f39f' ], | > #boolean : false | > } | > | > And this is very readable (to me)... not as many '[]' as I inferred | > from reading the tests:). | > | > I take back my YAML comparison ... this has the nice flavor of | > Smalltalk ... | > | > Dale | | Thanks! | | The main 'hack' is to extend JSON's list/array [] and map/dictionary | {} with a very simple way to instanciate any class, by preceding | them with a class name (or alias) and giving the control to | instanciate to the class or instance. Furthermore, for Array and | Dictionary these are optional. For the concrete representations | choosen for say DateAndTime or ByteArray, human readability was the | deciding factor. But any of these could be changed without hurting | the concept. | | Note that there are also references and implicit object counting and | graph tracing with a defined visit order. In a discussion with | Mariano I kind of decided to no longer treat Strings as | shareable/referenceable objects. This is not yet reflected in the | document but it is in the code. | | Sven |

April 24, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] SimpleLiteralArray Spec

by Dale Henrichs

Now I can take a crack at your questions:) ----- Original Message ----- | From: "Sven Van Caekenberghe" <sven(a)beta9.be> | To: "Pharo Development" <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> | Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 4:26:12 AM | Subject: [Pharo-project] SimpleLiteralArray Spec | ...snip | | Questions remain: | | - is the escaping OK ? | - what about symbols without a leading # ? If you can get rid of extra syntax, that would be good ... | - what should be allowed in unquoted symbols ? | - what should be allowed for classnames ? For Cypress we decided that the name of the directory (className.class) would not necessarily be the real name of the class since the classname rules might vary across different platforms, so something along the same lines might make sense by encoding the real name of the class in a field of the object while preserving the external name ... that way you the external class name could be 'classname' as defined, while the real name of the class could be specified in an optional classname field when the real name can't be mapped to 'classnamed' | - what about namespaces ? For Cypress namespaces are handled by special class attributes , so perhaps there would be an optional class_properties field where additional meta information about the class name resolution can be stored | - do we allow infinite precision integers ? | - maybe the toplevel should always be an array ? I like the idea that the top level can be any legal construct ... | | | Now: shoot! | | | Sven | | | -- | Sven Van Caekenberghe | http://stfx.eu | Smalltalk is the Red Pill | | | | | |

April 24, 2012

[Pharo-project] Editor focus & hotkeys

by blake

So, I'm entering code into a browser (Nautilus browser, though I don't think this behavior is specific to Nautilus), press Ctrl+S to save and... ...the code editor loses focus. Looks like it goes to the method pane, which seems reasonable. But now, to enter my next method, I have to take my hands off the keyboard and click the mouse. Nautilus seems insensate to the Tab key...how do I get from the method pane back to the code editor sans mouse? ===Blake===

April 24, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] STON (was Re: SimpleLiteralArray Spec)

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 24 Apr 2012, at 19:22, Dale Henrichs wrote: > Sven, > > I looked at your sample document in the pdf: > > TestDomainObject { > #created : DateAndTime [ '2012-02-14T16:40:15+01:00' ], > #modified : DateAndTime [ '2012-02-14T16:40:18+01:00' ], > #integer : 39581, > #float : 73.84789359463944, > #description : 'This is a test', > #color : #green, > #tags : [ > #two, > #beta, > #medium > ], > #bytes : ByteArray [ 'afabfdf61d030f43eb67960c0ae9f39f' ], > #boolean : false > } > > And this is very readable (to me)... not as many '[]' as I inferred from reading the tests:). > > I take back my YAML comparison ... this has the nice flavor of Smalltalk ... > > Dale Thanks! The main 'hack' is to extend JSON's list/array [] and map/dictionary {} with a very simple way to instanciate any class, by preceding them with a class name (or alias) and giving the control to instanciate to the class or instance. Furthermore, for Array and Dictionary these are optional. For the concrete representations choosen for say DateAndTime or ByteArray, human readability was the deciding factor. But any of these could be changed without hurting the concept. Note that there are also references and implicit object counting and graph tracing with a defined visit order. In a discussion with Mariano I kind of decided to no longer treat Strings as shareable/referenceable objects. This is not yet reflected in the document but it is in the code. Sven

April 24, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] STON (was Re: SimpleLiteralArray Spec)

by Dale Henrichs

Sven, For tODE I am very interested having something with this kind of potential ... shipping "real" ST objects back and forth between Amber and Pharo or GemStone has some real appeal... So Goran, the STON format looks somewhat similar to Tirade ... what would Tirade look like for the same data set? Dale ----- Original Message ----- | From: "Dale Henrichs" <dhenrich(a)vmware.com> | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 10:22:36 AM | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] STON (was Re: SimpleLiteralArray Spec) | | Sven, | | I looked at your sample document in the pdf: | | TestDomainObject { | #created : DateAndTime [ '2012-02-14T16:40:15+01:00' ], | #modified : DateAndTime [ '2012-02-14T16:40:18+01:00' ], | #integer : 39581, | #float : 73.84789359463944, | #description : 'This is a test', | #color : #green, | #tags : [ | #two, | #beta, | #medium | ], | #bytes : ByteArray [ 'afabfdf61d030f43eb67960c0ae9f39f' ], | #boolean : false | } | | And this is very readable (to me)... not as many '[]' as I inferred | from reading the tests:). | | I take back my YAML comparison ... this has the nice flavor of | Smalltalk ... | | Dale | | ----- Original Message ----- | | From: "Sven Van Caekenberghe" <sven(a)beta9.be> | | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | | Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 10:06:22 AM | | Subject: [Pharo-project] STON (was Re: SimpleLiteralArray Spec) | | | | Norbert, Dale, et al, | | | | | | On 24 Apr 2012, at 18:43, Norbert Hartl wrote: | | | | > What is STON and STON-object syntax? | | | | Arhh, it is not yet finished, I did it for myself, not for trying | | to | | convince the world, since that it too hard anyway. | | | | This is the work-in-progress paper: | | | | | | | | | | The code lives here: http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/STON | | | | It is a slight variation of JSON, adding some Smalltalk concepts, | | as | | well as a solution to the class problem. | | | | But again, I am not trying to convince anyone to use this, I did it | | as a proof of concept for myself, and I kind of like it. | | | | On the other hand, JSON is so ubiquitous that I wonder a bit, why | | bother ? | | | | Sven | | | | | | -- | | Sven Van Caekenberghe | | http://stfx.eu | | Smalltalk is the Red Pill | | | | | | | | | | |

April 24, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] STON (was Re: SimpleLiteralArray Spec)

by Dale Henrichs

Sven, I looked at your sample document in the pdf: TestDomainObject { #created : DateAndTime [ '2012-02-14T16:40:15+01:00' ], #modified : DateAndTime [ '2012-02-14T16:40:18+01:00' ], #integer : 39581, #float : 73.84789359463944, #description : 'This is a test', #color : #green, #tags : [ #two, #beta, #medium ], #bytes : ByteArray [ 'afabfdf61d030f43eb67960c0ae9f39f' ], #boolean : false } And this is very readable (to me)... not as many '[]' as I inferred from reading the tests:). I take back my YAML comparison ... this has the nice flavor of Smalltalk ... Dale ----- Original Message ----- | From: "Sven Van Caekenberghe" <sven(a)beta9.be> | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 10:06:22 AM | Subject: [Pharo-project] STON (was Re: SimpleLiteralArray Spec) | | Norbert, Dale, et al, | | | On 24 Apr 2012, at 18:43, Norbert Hartl wrote: | | > What is STON and STON-object syntax? | | Arhh, it is not yet finished, I did it for myself, not for trying to | convince the world, since that it too hard anyway. | | This is the work-in-progress paper: | | | | | The code lives here: http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/STON | | It is a slight variation of JSON, adding some Smalltalk concepts, as | well as a solution to the class problem. | | But again, I am not trying to convince anyone to use this, I did it | as a proof of concept for myself, and I kind of like it. | | On the other hand, JSON is so ubiquitous that I wonder a bit, why | bother ? | | Sven | | | -- | Sven Van Caekenberghe | http://stfx.eu | Smalltalk is the Red Pill | | | | |

April 24, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] SimpleLiteralArray Spec

by Dale Henrichs

Sven, I see that you have already gone beyond a simple literal array style syntax and it looks like you've headed into YAML territory? ... I'm seeing lots of []... the nice thing about YAML is that they've eliminated a lot of the excess syntactic characters which makes it very readable. The real test for readability would be a variety of sample documents... Dale ----- Original Message ----- | From: "Dale Henrichs" <dhenrich(a)vmware.com> | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 9:18:26 AM | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] SimpleLiteralArray Spec | | Sven, | | I know that having the parser produce dictionaries (i.e., dictionary | _syntax_) is very convenient for the consumer of the parsed output | ... | | When javascript evaluates/parses JSON, you will note that you get | real objects back instead of dictionaries and you can send messages | to those objects, so I would think that rather than inventing a | dictionary syntax, you invent a STON-object syntax then we can then | send setter/getter style messages to these boys... then we'd have | _objects_, arrays, strings, numbers and booleans for the STON format | ... a field could be optionally included in the STON object called | _class_ which would optionally allow the parser to produce instances | of that class with all of the fields filled in ... | | JSON on steroids! | | Anyway ... just a thought. | | Dale | | ----- Original Message ----- | | From: "Sven Van Caekenberghe" <sven(a)beta9.be> | | To: "Pharo Development" <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> | | Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 4:26:12 AM | | Subject: [Pharo-project] SimpleLiteralArray Spec | | | | OK, just to get started, let try to write a spec for | | SimpleLiteralArray, this is based on JSON (and my own STON, not | | ready for public consumption). It will soon become clear that this | | is slightly harder than expected, IMO a writer is needed as well. | | | | S y n t a x | | | | value | | primitive-value | | list | | nil | | primitive-value | | number | | true | | false | | symbol | | string | | classname | | list | | #() | | #( elements ) | | elements | | value | | value , elements | | string | | '' | | ' chars ' | | chars | | char | | char chars | | char | | any-printable-ASCII-character- | | except-"-or-\ | | \" | | \\ | | \/ | | \b | | \f | | \n | | \r | | \t | | \u four-hex-digits | | symbol | | # chars-limited | | # ' chars ' | | chars-limited | | char-limited | | char-limited chars-limited | | char-limited | | a-z A-Z 0-9 - _ . / | | classname | | uppercase-alpha-char alphanumeric-char | | number | | int | | int frac | | int exp | | int frac exp | | int | | digit | | digit1-9 digits | | - digit | | - digit1-9 digits | | frac | | . digits | | exp | | e digits | | digits | | digit | | digit digits | | e | | e | | e+ | | e- | | E | | E+ | | E- | | | | | | Questions remain: | | | | - is the escaping OK ? | | - what about symbols without a leading # ? | | - what should be allowed in unquoted symbols ? | | - what should be allowed for classnames ? | | - what about namespaces ? | | - do we allow infinite precision integers ? | | - maybe the toplevel should always be an array ? | | | | | | Now: shoot! | | | | | | Sven | | | | | | -- | | Sven Van Caekenberghe | | http://stfx.eu | | Smalltalk is the Red Pill | | | | | | | | | | | | | |

April 24, 2012

[Pharo-project] STON (was Re: SimpleLiteralArray Spec)

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Norbert, Dale, et al, On 24 Apr 2012, at 18:43, Norbert Hartl wrote: > What is STON and STON-object syntax? Arhh, it is not yet finished, I did it for myself, not for trying to convince the world, since that it too hard anyway. This is the work-in-progress paper: The code lives here: http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/STON It is a slight variation of JSON, adding some Smalltalk concepts, as well as a solution to the class problem. But again, I am not trying to convince anyone to use this, I did it as a proof of concept for myself, and I kind of like it. On the other hand, JSON is so ubiquitous that I wonder a bit, why bother ? Sven -- Sven Van Caekenberghe http://stfx.eu Smalltalk is the Red Pill

April 24, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] SimpleLiteralArray Spec

by Sean P. DeNigris

Norbert Hartl wrote > > What is STON and STON-object syntax? > Smalltalk Object Notation? http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/STON.html -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/SimpleLiteralArray-Spec-tp4583109p4584177.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

April 24, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [Esug-list] GSoC news: we have 13 projects!

by Sean P. DeNigris

Bert Freudenberg wrote > > Excellent! Thank you so much, Janko, Carla, mentors, students, and ESUG :) > Yes, thank you to everyone who is helping to bring all this excitement and effort!!! It will be even more fun celebrating your accomplishments in a short while ;-) Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/GSoC-news-we-have-13-projects-tp4583213p4584144.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

April 24, 2012