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[Pharo-project] flyover help

by Francisco Garau

Hi - the bounding rectangle of the flyover help is not big enough and always causing the last letter to show on a second line. If nobody has reported it, I'll try to fix it. Any pointers are appreciated. - Francisco

April 25, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] PetitSmalltalk: now with a self-contained grammar for number literals

by Levente Uzonyi

On Wed, 25 Apr 2012, Frank Shearar wrote: > On 25 April 2012 21:11, Levente Uzonyi <leves(a)elte.hu> wrote: >> On Fri, 20 Apr 2012, Frank Shearar wrote: >> >>> On 20 April 2012 03:51, Levente Uzonyi <leves(a)elte.hu> wrote: >>>> >>>> On Thu, 19 Apr 2012, Frank Shearar wrote: >>>> >>>>> I found a serious bug in parsing numbers with negative exponents. It >>>>> was completey broken, in fact, parsing 1e-1 as 10, not 1 / 10. Anyway. >>>>> This version fixes that, and adds a bunch of tests demonstrating that >>>>> number parsing will return rationals if it can. >>>>> >>>>> It's significantly slower than Squeak's SqNumberParser: >>>>> >>>>> Time millisecondsToRun: [100000 timesRepeat: [SqNumberParser parse: >>>>> '1234567890']] => 466 >>>>> >>>>> Time millisecondsToRun: [100000 timesRepeat: [PPSmalltalkNumberParser >>>>> parse: '1234567890']] => 32082 >>>>> >>>>> I've attached a MessageTally spying on the latter: I've not much skill >>>>> in reading these, but nothing leaps out at me as being obviously >>>>> awful. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Didn't check the code, just the tally, and I think that >>>> PPSmalltalkNumberParser(PPSmalltalkNumberGrammar)>>digitsBase: is begging >>>> for optimization. It's probably also the cause of the high amount of >>>> garbage >>>> which causes significant amount of time spent with garbage collection. >>>> It's also interesting is that the finalization process does so much work, >>>> there may be something wrong with your image. >>> >>> >>> Thanks for taking a look, Levente. >>> >>> I'd expect digitsBase: to dominate the running costs, given that we're >>> parsing numbers. >> >> >> I finally checked the code and there's plenty of space for optimization. >> Note that the code can't be loaded into Squeak, because there's an invalid >> symbol #__gen__binding, and some methods with nil category. > > Indeed: you might recall I've mentioned some incompatibilities between > Pharo and Squeak where PetitParser is concerned: Symbol >> isBinary > doesn't exist, you MUST have Scanner prefAllowUnderscoreSelectors: > true and Scanner allowUnderscoreAsAssignment: false, you need to > fiddle with RB so you can load AST-Core and AST-Compiler, and so on. > It's _possible_ (I wrote/am writing the number grammar in a Squeak > image), and once I've addressed _this_ incompatibility, I'll address > the others! > >>> I do make a large number of throwaway "immutable" values with a >>> Builder-like pattern... in PPSmalltalkNumberParser >> >>> #makeNumberFrom:base:. That, I would imagine, could explain the >>> garbage? >> >> >> The current garbage collector is not optimal for large images and large >> amount of garbage, so you should try avoid creating it in performance >> critial parts of your code. > > I foolishly forgot to add the message tally. You'll notice the absence > of the weak finalization process: that might have been because the > image predated the recent weak finalization thrashing fix. I'm using Eliot's VMs and those don't include Igor's patch. Levente > > frank > >>> If I may, what do you look for when reading the MessageTally? How do >>> you tell, for instance, that there's excessive garbage production? >> >> >> In your tally GC time was 20% of total time and another 20% for the >> finalization process. These numbers should be much lower, usually less than >> 1%. >> >> >>> That the incremental GCs take 7ms? (I'm reading Andreas' comments on >>> http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/4210 again.) >> >> >> 7ms for an incremental GC is also a bit high, it should be around 1-2ms. >> >> >> Levente >> >> >>> >>> frank >>> >>>> Levente >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> frank >>>>> >>>>> On 14 September 2011 20:26, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar(a)gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3 September 2011 19:35, Nicolas Cellier >>>>>> <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2011/9/3 Frank Shearar <frank.shearar(a)gmail.com>: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 3 September 2011 18:50, Lukas Renggli <renggli(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I think it is a good idea to have the number parser separate, after >>>>>>>>> all it might also make sense to use it separately. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It seems that the new Smalltalk grammar is significantly slower. The >>>>>>>>> benchmark PPSmalltalkClassesTests class>>#benchmark: that uses the >>>>>>>>> source code of the collection hierarchy and does not especially >>>>>>>>> target >>>>>>>>> number literals runs 30% slower. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Also I see that "Number readFrom: ..." is still used within the >>>>>>>>> grammar. This seems to be a bit strange, no? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes: it's a double-parse, which is a bit lame. First, we parse the >>>>>>>> literal with PPSmalltalkNumberParser, which ensures that the thing >>>>>>>> given to Number class >> #readFrom: is a well-formed token (so, in >>>>>>>> particular, Squeak's Number doesn't get to see anything other than a >>>>>>>> well-formed token). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It sounds like you're happy with the basic concept, so maybe I should >>>>>>>> remove the Number class >> #readFrom: stuff, see if I can't remove >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> performance issues, and resubmit the patch. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> frank >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes, a NumberParser is essentially parsing, and this duplication >>>>>>> sounds >>>>>>> useless. >>>>>>> The main feature of interest in NumberParser that I consider a >>>>>>> requirement and should find its equivalence in a PetitNumberParser is: >>>>>>> - round a decimal representation to nearest Float >>>>>>> It's simple, just convert a Fraction asFloat in a single final step to >>>>>>> avoid cumulating round off errors - see >>>>>>> #makeFloatFromMantissa:exponent:base: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The second feature of interest in NumberParser is the ability to >>>>>>> parser LargeInteger efficiently by avoiding (10 * largeValue + >>>>>>> digitValue) loops, and replacing them with a log(n) cost. >>>>>>> This would be a simple thing to implement in a functional language. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hopefully this won't offend your sensibilities too much :). It does, >>>>>> in fact, use 10* loops - I wrote an experimental "front half * rear >>>>>> half" recursion, which was slower in my benchmarks. >>>>>> >>>>>> This version has the grammar and parser doing no string->number >>>>>> conversion at all. PPSmalltalkNumberMaker supplies a number of utility >>>>>> methods designed to stop one from making malformed numbers. It also >>>>>> supplies a builder interface that the parser uses to construct >>>>>> numbers. >>>>>> >>>>>> frank >>>>>> >>>>>>> Nicolas >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Lukas >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 3 September 2011 17:18, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar(a)gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 3 September 2011 15:56, Lukas Renggli <renggli(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 3 September 2011 16:51, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar(a)gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Lukas, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I haven't :) mainly because I'm unsure where to put it - is there >>>>>>>>>>>> perhaps a PP Inbox, or shall I just post the merged version, or >>>>>>>>>>>> what's >>>>>>>>>>>> your preference? (How about an mcd between my merge and PP's >>>>>>>>>>>> head?) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Just put the .mcz at some public URL (dropbox, squeak source, ...) >>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>> attach it to a mail. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ah, great - here it is. You'll see I've written the grammar as a >>>>>>>>>> separate class. That was really more to make what I'd done more >>>>>>>>>> obvious and to minimise the change to PPSmalltalkGrammar, but >>>>>>>>>> perhaps >>>>>>>>>> it's not a bad idea anyway: it's easy to see the number literal >>>>>>>>>> subgrammar. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> frank >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Lukas >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Lukas Renggli >>>>>>>>>>> www.lukas-renggli.ch >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Lukas Renggli >>>>>>>>> www.lukas-renggli.ch >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >

April 25, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] PetitSmalltalk: now with a self-contained grammar for number literals

by Levente Uzonyi

On Wed, 25 Apr 2012, Eliot Miranda wrote: > > > On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 1:11 PM, Levente Uzonyi <leves(a)elte.hu> wrote: > On Fri, 20 Apr 2012, Frank Shearar wrote: > > On 20 April 2012 03:51, Levente Uzonyi <leves(a)elte.hu> wrote: > On Thu, 19 Apr 2012, Frank Shearar wrote: > > I found a serious bug in parsing numbers with negative exponents. It > was completey broken, in fact, parsing 1e-1 as 10, not 1 / 10. Anyway. > This version fixes that, and adds a bunch of tests demonstrating that > number parsing will return rationals if it can. > > It's significantly slower than Squeak's SqNumberParser: > > Time millisecondsToRun: [100000 timesRepeat: [SqNumberParser parse: > '1234567890']] => 466 > > Time millisecondsToRun: [100000 timesRepeat: [PPSmalltalkNumberParser > parse: '1234567890']] => 32082 > > I've attached a MessageTally spying on the latter: I've not much skill > in reading these, but nothing leaps out at me as being obviously > awful. > > > > Didn't check the code, just the tally, and I think that > PPSmalltalkNumberParser(PPSmalltalkNumberGrammar)>>digitsBase: is begging > for optimization. It's probably also the cause of the high amount of garbage > which causes significant amount of time spent with garbage collection. > It's also interesting is that the finalization process does so much work, > there may be something wrong with your image. > > > Thanks for taking a look, Levente. > > I'd expect digitsBase: to dominate the running costs, given that we're > parsing numbers. > > > I finally checked the code and there's plenty of space for optimization. Note that the code can't be loaded into Squeak, because there's an invalid > symbol #__gen__binding, and some methods with nil category. > > > I do make a large number of throwaway "immutable" values with a > Builder-like pattern... in PPSmalltalkNumberParser >> > #makeNumberFrom:base:. That, I would imagine, could explain the > garbage? > > > The current garbage collector is not optimal for large images and large amount of garbage, so you should try avoid creating it in performance > critial parts of your code. > > > If I may, what do you look for when reading the MessageTally? How do > you tell, for instance, that there's excessive garbage production? > > > In your tally GC time was 20% of total time and another 20% for the finalization process. These numbers should be much lower, usually less than 1%. > > That the incremental GCs take 7ms? (I'm reading Andreas' comments on > http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/4210 again.) > > > 7ms for an incremental GC is also a bit high, it should be around 1-2ms. > > > Careful. Â Absolute GC times (as any run-time) depend on the machine. Â On a slow machine GC runs slow... Of course, but the incremental GC is intended to be fast enough to be unnoticable even during audio playback, so it shouldn't take more than 1-2ms on a slower system. Levente > Â > > > > Levente > > > frank > > Levente > > > > frank > > On 14 September 2011 20:26, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On 3 September 2011 19:35, Nicolas Cellier > <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > 2011/9/3 Frank Shearar <frank.shearar(a)gmail.com>: > > On 3 September 2011 18:50, Lukas Renggli <renggli(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I think it is a good idea to have the number parser > separate, after > all it might also make sense to use it separately. > > It seems that the new Smalltalk grammar is significantly > slower. The > benchmark PPSmalltalkClassesTests class>>#benchmark: that > uses the > source code of the collection hierarchy and does not > especially target > number literals runs 30% slower. > > Also I see that "Number readFrom: ..." is still used > within the > grammar. This seems to be a bit strange, no? > > > > Yes: it's a double-parse, which is a bit lame. First, we parse the > literal with PPSmalltalkNumberParser, which ensures that the thing > given to Number class >> #readFrom: is a well-formed token (so, in > particular, Squeak's Number doesn't get to see anything other than a > well-formed token). > > It sounds like you're happy with the basic concept, so maybe I should > remove the Number class >> #readFrom: stuff, see if I can't remove the > performance issues, and resubmit the patch. > > frank > > > Yes, a NumberParser is essentially parsing, and this duplication sounds > useless. > The main feature of interest in NumberParser that I consider a > requirement and should find its equivalence in a PetitNumberParser is: > - round a decimal representation to nearest Float > It's simple, just convert a Fraction asFloat in a single final step to > avoid cumulating round off errors - see > #makeFloatFromMantissa:exponent:base: > > The second feature of interest in NumberParser is the ability to > parser LargeInteger efficiently by avoiding (10 * largeValue + > digitValue) loops, and replacing them with a log(n) cost. > This would be a simple thing to implement in a functional language. > > > > Hopefully this won't offend your sensibilities too much :). It does, > in fact, use 10* loops - I wrote an experimental "front half * rear > half" recursion, which was slower in my benchmarks. > > This version has the grammar and parser doing no string->number > conversion at all. PPSmalltalkNumberMaker supplies a number of utility > methods designed to stop one from making malformed numbers. It also > supplies a builder interface that the parser uses to construct > numbers. > > frank > > Nicolas > > Lukas > > > On 3 September 2011 17:18, Frank Shearar > <frank.shearar(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > On 3 September 2011 15:56, Lukas Renggli > <renggli(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On 3 September 2011 16:51, Frank > Shearar <frank.shearar(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > Hi Lukas, > > I haven't :) mainly > because I'm unsure > where to put it - is > there > perhaps a PP Inbox, or > shall I just post the > merged version, or > what's > your preference? (How > about an mcd between > my merge and PP's > head?) > > > > Just put the .mcz at some public > URL (dropbox, squeak source, ...) > or > attach it to a mail. > > > > Ah, great - here it is. You'll see I've > written the grammar as a > separate class. That was really more to make > what I'd done more > obvious and to minimise the change to > PPSmalltalkGrammar, but perhaps > it's not a bad idea anyway: it's easy to see > the number literal > subgrammar. > > frank > > Lukas > > -- > Lukas Renggli > www.lukas-renggli.ch > > > > > > > -- > Lukas Renggli > www.lukas-renggli.ch > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > best,Eliot > > >

April 25, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] PetitSmalltalk: now with a self-contained grammar for number literals

by Frank Shearar

On 25 April 2012 21:11, Levente Uzonyi <leves(a)elte.hu> wrote: > On Fri, 20 Apr 2012, Frank Shearar wrote: > >> On 20 April 2012 03:51, Levente Uzonyi <leves(a)elte.hu> wrote: >>> >>> On Thu, 19 Apr 2012, Frank Shearar wrote: >>> >>>> I found a serious bug in parsing numbers with negative exponents. It >>>> was completey broken, in fact, parsing 1e-1 as 10, not 1 / 10. Anyway. >>>> This version fixes that, and adds a bunch of tests demonstrating that >>>> number parsing will return rationals if it can. >>>> >>>> It's significantly slower than Squeak's SqNumberParser: >>>> >>>> Time millisecondsToRun: [100000 timesRepeat: [SqNumberParser parse: >>>> '1234567890']] => 466 >>>> >>>> Time millisecondsToRun: [100000 timesRepeat: [PPSmalltalkNumberParser >>>> parse: '1234567890']] => 32082 >>>> >>>> I've attached a MessageTally spying on the latter: I've not much skill >>>> in reading these, but nothing leaps out at me as being obviously >>>> awful. >>> >>> >>> >>> Didn't check the code, just the tally, and I think that >>> PPSmalltalkNumberParser(PPSmalltalkNumberGrammar)>>digitsBase: is begging >>> for optimization. It's probably also the cause of the high amount of >>> garbage >>> which causes significant amount of time spent with garbage collection. >>> It's also interesting is that the finalization process does so much work, >>> there may be something wrong with your image. >> >> >> Thanks for taking a look, Levente. >> >> I'd expect digitsBase: to dominate the running costs, given that we're >> parsing numbers. > > > I finally checked the code and there's plenty of space for optimization. > Note that the code can't be loaded into Squeak, because there's an invalid > symbol #__gen__binding, and some methods with nil category. Indeed: you might recall I've mentioned some incompatibilities between Pharo and Squeak where PetitParser is concerned: Symbol >> isBinary doesn't exist, you MUST have Scanner prefAllowUnderscoreSelectors: true and Scanner allowUnderscoreAsAssignment: false, you need to fiddle with RB so you can load AST-Core and AST-Compiler, and so on. It's _possible_ (I wrote/am writing the number grammar in a Squeak image), and once I've addressed _this_ incompatibility, I'll address the others! >> I do make a large number of throwaway "immutable" values with a >> Builder-like pattern... in PPSmalltalkNumberParser >> >> #makeNumberFrom:base:. That, I would imagine, could explain the >> garbage? > > > The current garbage collector is not optimal for large images and large > amount of garbage, so you should try avoid creating it in performance > critial parts of your code. I foolishly forgot to add the message tally. You'll notice the absence of the weak finalization process: that might have been because the image predated the recent weak finalization thrashing fix. frank >> If I may, what do you look for when reading the MessageTally? How do >> you tell, for instance, that there's excessive garbage production? > > > In your tally GC time was 20% of total time and another 20% for the > finalization process. These numbers should be much lower, usually less than > 1%. > > >> That the incremental GCs take 7ms? (I'm reading Andreas' comments on >> http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/4210 again.) > > > 7ms for an incremental GC is also a bit high, it should be around 1-2ms. > > > Levente > > >> >> frank >> >>> Levente >>> >>> >>>> >>>> frank >>>> >>>> On 14 September 2011 20:26, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar(a)gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 3 September 2011 19:35, Nicolas Cellier >>>>> <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 2011/9/3 Frank Shearar <frank.shearar(a)gmail.com>: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3 September 2011 18:50, Lukas Renggli <renggli(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think it is a good idea to have the number parser separate, after >>>>>>>> all it might also make sense to use it separately. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It seems that the new Smalltalk grammar is significantly slower. The >>>>>>>> benchmark PPSmalltalkClassesTests class>>#benchmark: that uses the >>>>>>>> source code of the collection hierarchy and does not especially >>>>>>>> target >>>>>>>> number literals runs 30% slower. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Also I see that "Number readFrom: ..." is still used within the >>>>>>>> grammar. This seems to be a bit strange, no? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes: it's a double-parse, which is a bit lame. First, we parse the >>>>>>> literal with PPSmalltalkNumberParser, which ensures that the thing >>>>>>> given to Number class >> #readFrom: is a well-formed token (so, in >>>>>>> particular, Squeak's Number doesn't get to see anything other than a >>>>>>> well-formed token). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It sounds like you're happy with the basic concept, so maybe I should >>>>>>> remove the Number class >> #readFrom: stuff, see if I can't remove >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> performance issues, and resubmit the patch. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> frank >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, a NumberParser is essentially parsing, and this duplication >>>>>> sounds >>>>>> useless. >>>>>> The main feature of interest in NumberParser that I consider a >>>>>> requirement and should find its equivalence in a PetitNumberParser is: >>>>>> - round a decimal representation to nearest Float >>>>>> It's simple, just convert a Fraction asFloat in a single final step to >>>>>> avoid cumulating round off errors - see >>>>>> #makeFloatFromMantissa:exponent:base: >>>>>> >>>>>> The second feature of interest in NumberParser is the ability to >>>>>> parser LargeInteger efficiently by avoiding (10 * largeValue + >>>>>> digitValue) loops, and replacing them with a log(n) cost. >>>>>> This would be a simple thing to implement in a functional language. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hopefully this won't offend your sensibilities too much :). It does, >>>>> in fact, use 10* loops - I wrote an experimental "front half * rear >>>>> half" recursion, which was slower in my benchmarks. >>>>> >>>>> This version has the grammar and parser doing no string->number >>>>> conversion at all. PPSmalltalkNumberMaker supplies a number of utility >>>>> methods designed to stop one from making malformed numbers. It also >>>>> supplies a builder interface that the parser uses to construct >>>>> numbers. >>>>> >>>>> frank >>>>> >>>>>> Nicolas >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Lukas >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 3 September 2011 17:18, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar(a)gmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 3 September 2011 15:56, Lukas Renggli <renggli(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 3 September 2011 16:51, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar(a)gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Lukas, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I haven't :) mainly because I'm unsure where to put it - is there >>>>>>>>>>> perhaps a PP Inbox, or shall I just post the merged version, or >>>>>>>>>>> what's >>>>>>>>>>> your preference? (How about an mcd between my merge and PP's >>>>>>>>>>> head?) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Just put the .mcz at some public URL (dropbox, squeak source, ...) >>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>> attach it to a mail. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ah, great - here it is. You'll see I've written the grammar as a >>>>>>>>> separate class. That was really more to make what I'd done more >>>>>>>>> obvious and to minimise the change to PPSmalltalkGrammar, but >>>>>>>>> perhaps >>>>>>>>> it's not a bad idea anyway: it's easy to see the number literal >>>>>>>>> subgrammar. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> frank >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Lukas >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Lukas Renggli >>>>>>>>>> www.lukas-renggli.ch >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Lukas Renggli >>>>>>>> www.lukas-renggli.ch >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >

April 25, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] PetitSmalltalk: now with a self-contained grammar for number literals

by Levente Uzonyi

On Wed, 25 Apr 2012, Frank Shearar wrote: > On 20 April 2012 15:15, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> On 20 April 2012 03:51, Levente Uzonyi <leves(a)elte.hu> wrote: >>> On Thu, 19 Apr 2012, Frank Shearar wrote: >>> >>>> I found a serious bug in parsing numbers with negative exponents. It >>>> was completey broken, in fact, parsing 1e-1 as 10, not 1 / 10. Anyway. >>>> This version fixes that, and adds a bunch of tests demonstrating that >>>> number parsing will return rationals if it can. >>>> >>>> It's significantly slower than Squeak's SqNumberParser: >>>> >>>> Time millisecondsToRun: [100000 timesRepeat: [SqNumberParser parse: >>>> '1234567890']] => 466 >>>> >>>> Time millisecondsToRun: [100000 timesRepeat: [PPSmalltalkNumberParser >>>> parse: '1234567890']] => 32082 >>>> >>>> I've attached a MessageTally spying on the latter: I've not much skill >>>> in reading these, but nothing leaps out at me as being obviously >>>> awful. >>> >>> >>> Didn't check the code, just the tally, and I think that >>> PPSmalltalkNumberParser(PPSmalltalkNumberGrammar)>>digitsBase: is begging >>> for optimization. It's probably also the cause of the high amount of garbage >>> which causes significant amount of time spent with garbage collection. >>> It's also interesting is that the finalization process does so much work, >>> there may be something wrong with your image. >> >> Thanks for taking a look, Levente. >> >> I'd expect digitsBase: to dominate the running costs, given that we're >> parsing numbers. >> >> I do make a large number of throwaway "immutable" values with a >> Builder-like pattern... in PPSmalltalkNumberParser >> >> #makeNumberFrom:base:. That, I would imagine, could explain the >> garbage? >> >> If I may, what do you look for when reading the MessageTally? How do >> you tell, for instance, that there's excessive garbage production? >> That the incremental GCs take 7ms? (I'm reading Andreas' comments on >> http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/4210 again.) > > Levente, you're quite right: #digitsBase: has now been optimised even > more, reducing the time taken to run my benchmark > > MessageTally spyOn: [Time millisecondsToRun: [100000 timesRepeat: > [PPSmalltalkNumberParser parse: '1234567890']]] > > from ~32 seconds to ~16 seconds. (Memoising was the answer: > #digitsBase: is effectively a higher-order production and, like OMeta, > PPCompositeParser doesn't memoise those. A simple class var dictionary > solves that problem. Creating a new parser (PPSmalltalkNumberParser) takes quite a while, if you extract the parser creation, then you'll get closer to the performance limit of PetitParser: | p | p := PPSmalltalkNumberParser new. [ Time millisecondsToRun: [100000 timesRepeat: [p parse: '1234567890']] ] timeProfile. "==> 2594" There are still places where you create parsers on the fly, like PPSmalltalkNumberGrammar #>> number. These should be avoided. Levente > > frank > >> frank >> >>> Levente >>> >>> >>>> >>>> frank >>>> >>>> On 14 September 2011 20:26, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On 3 September 2011 19:35, Nicolas Cellier >>>>> <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> 2011/9/3 Frank Shearar <frank.shearar(a)gmail.com>: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3 September 2011 18:50, Lukas Renggli <renggli(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think it is a good idea to have the number parser separate, after >>>>>>>> all it might also make sense to use it separately. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It seems that the new Smalltalk grammar is significantly slower. The >>>>>>>> benchmark PPSmalltalkClassesTests class>>#benchmark: that uses the >>>>>>>> source code of the collection hierarchy and does not especially target >>>>>>>> number literals runs 30% slower. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Also I see that "Number readFrom: ..." is still used within the >>>>>>>> grammar. This seems to be a bit strange, no? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes: it's a double-parse, which is a bit lame. First, we parse the >>>>>>> literal with PPSmalltalkNumberParser, which ensures that the thing >>>>>>> given to Number class >> #readFrom: is a well-formed token (so, in >>>>>>> particular, Squeak's Number doesn't get to see anything other than a >>>>>>> well-formed token). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It sounds like you're happy with the basic concept, so maybe I should >>>>>>> remove the Number class >> #readFrom: stuff, see if I can't remove the >>>>>>> performance issues, and resubmit the patch. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> frank >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, a NumberParser is essentially parsing, and this duplication sounds >>>>>> useless. >>>>>> The main feature of interest in NumberParser that I consider a >>>>>> requirement and should find its equivalence in a PetitNumberParser is: >>>>>> - round a decimal representation to nearest Float >>>>>> It's simple, just convert a Fraction asFloat in a single final step to >>>>>> avoid cumulating round off errors - see >>>>>> #makeFloatFromMantissa:exponent:base: >>>>>> >>>>>> The second feature of interest in NumberParser is the ability to >>>>>> parser LargeInteger efficiently by avoiding (10 * largeValue + >>>>>> digitValue) loops, and replacing them with a log(n) cost. >>>>>> This would be a simple thing to implement in a functional language. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hopefully this won't offend your sensibilities too much :). It does, >>>>> in fact, use 10* loops - I wrote an experimental "front half * rear >>>>> half" recursion, which was slower in my benchmarks. >>>>> >>>>> This version has the grammar and parser doing no string->number >>>>> conversion at all. PPSmalltalkNumberMaker supplies a number of utility >>>>> methods designed to stop one from making malformed numbers. It also >>>>> supplies a builder interface that the parser uses to construct >>>>> numbers. >>>>> >>>>> frank >>>>> >>>>>> Nicolas >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Lukas >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 3 September 2011 17:18, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar(a)gmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 3 September 2011 15:56, Lukas Renggli <renggli(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 3 September 2011 16:51, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar(a)gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Lukas, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I haven't :) mainly because I'm unsure where to put it - is there >>>>>>>>>>> perhaps a PP Inbox, or shall I just post the merged version, or >>>>>>>>>>> what's >>>>>>>>>>> your preference? (How about an mcd between my merge and PP's head?) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Just put the .mcz at some public URL (dropbox, squeak source, ...) >>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>> attach it to a mail. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ah, great - here it is. You'll see I've written the grammar as a >>>>>>>>> separate class. That was really more to make what I'd done more >>>>>>>>> obvious and to minimise the change to PPSmalltalkGrammar, but perhaps >>>>>>>>> it's not a bad idea anyway: it's easy to see the number literal >>>>>>>>> subgrammar. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> frank >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Lukas >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Lukas Renggli >>>>>>>>>> www.lukas-renggli.ch >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Lukas Renggli >>>>>>>> www.lukas-renggli.ch >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>> >

April 25, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Error at startup with the NonInteractiveUIManager

by Francois Stephany

I've identified the source of my problem =) I starts my image with a script like: exec "$VM" $VM_PARAMS "$IMAGE" $STARTUP_SCRIPT where $STARTUP_SCRIPT is the path to a .st file. That file was named "startup.st". Which is automatically loaded with Pharo 1.4. So it was loaded twice and my image was fucked. I tried to modify my script to: exec "$VM" $VM_PARAMS "$IMAGE" and put "startup.st" next to the image. But that still gives me the error. In the end I just kept exec "$VM" $VM_PARAMS "$IMAGE" $STARTUP_SCRIPT but rename the file lying in $STARTUP_SCRIPT in "start.st". Everything seems to work fine now. On 25/04/12 00:48, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 7:12 AM, Francois Stephany > <tulipe.moutarde(a)gmail.com <mailto:tulipe.moutarde@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Hi there, > > I have a problem when trying to start an application on a linux > server with the latest cogvm (2550) and Pharo 1.4-14438. > > > ==== Startup Error: PrimitiveFailed: primitive #primGetPosition: > in MultiByteFileStream failed > MultiByteFileStream(Object)>>__primitiveFailed: > MultiByteFileStream(Object)>>__primitiveFailed > MultiByteFileStream(__StandardFileStream)>>__primGetPosition: > MultiByteFileStream(__StandardFileStream)>>position > MultiByteFileStream(__PositionableStream)>>__skipStyleChunk > MultiByteFileStream(__PositionableStream)>>__fileInAnnouncing: > in Block: [:bar | ... > NonInteractiveUIManager(__CommandLineUIManager)>>__progressInitiationExceptionDef__aultAction: > ProgressInitiationException>>__defaultAction > UndefinedObject>>handleSignal: > MethodContext(ContextPart)>>__handleSignal: > Got startup errors: > PrimitiveFailed: primitive #primGetPosition: in > MultiByteFileStream failed > > > > > > Francois, I think that stacktrace is a problem trying to write into > PharoDebug.log ANOTHER problem. So you shuld try to somehow see which is > the original error. > > Cheers > > I haven't identified the cause yet but if anybody had that problem > before, i'm all ears ;) > > > Cheers, > Francois > > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > -- http://tulipemoutarde.be CA: +1 778 558 3225 BE: +32 65 709 131

April 25, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] PetitSmalltalk: now with a self-contained grammar for number literals

by Eliot Miranda

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 1:11 PM, Levente Uzonyi <leves(a)elte.hu> wrote: > On Fri, 20 Apr 2012, Frank Shearar wrote: > > On 20 April 2012 03:51, Levente Uzonyi <leves(a)elte.hu> wrote: >> >>> On Thu, 19 Apr 2012, Frank Shearar wrote: >>> >>> I found a serious bug in parsing numbers with negative exponents. It >>>> was completey broken, in fact, parsing 1e-1 as 10, not 1 / 10. Anyway. >>>> This version fixes that, and adds a bunch of tests demonstrating that >>>> number parsing will return rationals if it can. >>>> >>>> It's significantly slower than Squeak's SqNumberParser: >>>> >>>> Time millisecondsToRun: [100000 timesRepeat: [SqNumberParser parse: >>>> '1234567890']] => 466 >>>> >>>> >>>> Time millisecondsToRun: [100000 timesRepeat: [PPSmalltalkNumberParser >>>> parse: '1234567890']] => 32082 >>>> >>>> I've attached a MessageTally spying on the latter: I've not much skill >>>> in reading these, but nothing leaps out at me as being obviously >>>> awful. >>>> >>> >>> >>> Didn't check the code, just the tally, and I think that >>> PPSmalltalkNumberParser(**PPSmalltalkNumberGrammar)>>**digitsBase: is >>> begging >>> for optimization. It's probably also the cause of the high amount of >>> garbage >>> which causes significant amount of time spent with garbage collection. >>> It's also interesting is that the finalization process does so much work, >>> there may be something wrong with your image. >>> >> >> Thanks for taking a look, Levente. >> >> I'd expect digitsBase: to dominate the running costs, given that we're >> parsing numbers. >> > > I finally checked the code and there's plenty of space for optimization. > Note that the code can't be loaded into Squeak, because there's an invalid > symbol #__gen__binding, and some methods with nil category. > > > >> I do make a large number of throwaway "immutable" values with a >> Builder-like pattern... in PPSmalltalkNumberParser >> >> #makeNumberFrom:base:. That, I would imagine, could explain the >> garbage? >> > > The current garbage collector is not optimal for large images and large > amount of garbage, so you should try avoid creating it in performance > critial parts of your code. > > > >> If I may, what do you look for when reading the MessageTally? How do >> you tell, for instance, that there's excessive garbage production? >> > > In your tally GC time was 20% of total time and another 20% for the > finalization process. These numbers should be much lower, usually less than > 1%. > > > That the incremental GCs take 7ms? (I'm reading Andreas' comments on >> http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/**4210 <http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/4210>again.) >> > > 7ms for an incremental GC is also a bit high, it should be around 1-2ms. Careful. Absolute GC times (as any run-time) depend on the machine. On a slow machine GC runs slow... > > > > Levente > > > >> frank >> >> Levente >>> >>> >>> >>>> frank >>>> >>>> On 14 September 2011 20:26, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar(a)gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 3 September 2011 19:35, Nicolas Cellier >>>>> <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)**gmail.com<nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 2011/9/3 Frank Shearar <frank.shearar(a)gmail.com>: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3 September 2011 18:50, Lukas Renggli <renggli(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think it is a good idea to have the number parser separate, after >>>>>>>> all it might also make sense to use it separately. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It seems that the new Smalltalk grammar is significantly slower. The >>>>>>>> benchmark PPSmalltalkClassesTests class>>#benchmark: that uses the >>>>>>>> source code of the collection hierarchy and does not especially >>>>>>>> target >>>>>>>> number literals runs 30% slower. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Also I see that "Number readFrom: ..." is still used within the >>>>>>>> grammar. This seems to be a bit strange, no? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes: it's a double-parse, which is a bit lame. First, we parse the >>>>>>> literal with PPSmalltalkNumberParser, which ensures that the thing >>>>>>> given to Number class >> #readFrom: is a well-formed token (so, in >>>>>>> particular, Squeak's Number doesn't get to see anything other than a >>>>>>> well-formed token). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It sounds like you're happy with the basic concept, so maybe I should >>>>>>> remove the Number class >> #readFrom: stuff, see if I can't remove >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> performance issues, and resubmit the patch. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> frank >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, a NumberParser is essentially parsing, and this duplication >>>>>> sounds >>>>>> useless. >>>>>> The main feature of interest in NumberParser that I consider a >>>>>> requirement and should find its equivalence in a PetitNumberParser is: >>>>>> - round a decimal representation to nearest Float >>>>>> It's simple, just convert a Fraction asFloat in a single final step to >>>>>> avoid cumulating round off errors - see >>>>>> #makeFloatFromMantissa:**exponent:base: >>>>>> >>>>>> The second feature of interest in NumberParser is the ability to >>>>>> parser LargeInteger efficiently by avoiding (10 * largeValue + >>>>>> digitValue) loops, and replacing them with a log(n) cost. >>>>>> This would be a simple thing to implement in a functional language. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hopefully this won't offend your sensibilities too much :). It does, >>>>> in fact, use 10* loops - I wrote an experimental "front half * rear >>>>> half" recursion, which was slower in my benchmarks. >>>>> >>>>> This version has the grammar and parser doing no string->number >>>>> conversion at all. PPSmalltalkNumberMaker supplies a number of utility >>>>> methods designed to stop one from making malformed numbers. It also >>>>> supplies a builder interface that the parser uses to construct >>>>> numbers. >>>>> >>>>> frank >>>>> >>>>> Nicolas >>>>>> >>>>>> Lukas >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 3 September 2011 17:18, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar(a)gmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 3 September 2011 15:56, Lukas Renggli <renggli(a)gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 3 September 2011 16:51, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar(a)gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Lukas, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I haven't :) mainly because I'm unsure where to put it - is there >>>>>>>>>>> perhaps a PP Inbox, or shall I just post the merged version, or >>>>>>>>>>> what's >>>>>>>>>>> your preference? (How about an mcd between my merge and PP's >>>>>>>>>>> head?) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Just put the .mcz at some public URL (dropbox, squeak source, ...) >>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>> attach it to a mail. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ah, great - here it is. You'll see I've written the grammar as a >>>>>>>>> separate class. That was really more to make what I'd done more >>>>>>>>> obvious and to minimise the change to PPSmalltalkGrammar, but >>>>>>>>> perhaps >>>>>>>>> it's not a bad idea anyway: it's easy to see the number literal >>>>>>>>> subgrammar. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> frank >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Lukas >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Lukas Renggli >>>>>>>>>> www.lukas-renggli.ch >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Lukas Renggli >>>>>>>> www.lukas-renggli.ch >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> >> > -- best, Eliot

April 25, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Who is maintaining the Grease configuration

by Dale Henrichs

... let me finish my thought ... I can share that algorithm with you, if you want:) Dale ----- Original Message ----- | From: "Dale Henrichs" <dhenrich(a)vmware.com> | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 2:01:05 PM | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Who is maintaining the Grease configuration | | For Gemstone, I generate (and cache) the attributes based on | programmatic access to the image version number... | | Dale | | ----- Original Message ----- | | From: "StÃ©phane Ducasse" <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> | | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | | Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 12:58:25 PM | | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Who is maintaining the Grease | | configuration | | | | Ok I will do it. | | We should add this to our process. | | | | Stef | | | | | | > The first thing that I ran into is that the attributes for | | > Pharo2.0 | | > need to be updated ... right now: | | > | | > ConfigurationOfGrease project attributes | | > | | > returns: | | > | | > an OrderedCollection(#common #squeakCommon #pharo #'pharo1.x' | | > #'pharo1.4.x') | | > | | > Looks like SmalltalkImage>>metacelloPlatformAttributes needs to | | > be | | > updated to return: | | > | | > #(#squeakCommon #pharo #'pharo2.x' #'pharo2.0.x') | | > | | > Dale | | > | | > ----- Original Message ----- | | > | From: "StÃ©phane Ducasse" <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> | | > | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | | > | Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 10:26:18 AM | | > | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Who is maintaining the Grease | | > | configuration | | > | | | > | Thanks | | > | I will start to add the pharo2.0.x to some configurations too. | | > | | | > | Stef | | > | | | > | > I'm the editor for the Grease configuration, so I'll take | | > | > this | | > | > on | | > | > ... | | > | > | | > | > Dale | | > | > | | > | > ----- Original Message ----- | | > | > | From: "StÃ©phane Ducasse" <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> | | > | > | To: "Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Development" | | > | > | <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> | | > | > | Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 7:37:14 AM | | > | > | Subject: [Pharo-project] Who is maintaining the Grease | | > | > | configuration | | > | > | | | > | > | Because we should create a symbolic version for 20 | | > | > | | | > | > | This package depends on the following classes: | | > | > | BlockContext | | > | > | You must resolve these dependencies before you will be able | | > | > | to | | > | > | load | | > | > | these definitions: | | > | > | fixCallbackTemps | | > | > | tempVarRefs | | > | > | valueWithPossibleArguments: | | > | > | | | > | > | | | > | > | | | > | > | | > | | | > | | | > | | | > | | | | | | |

April 25, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Who is maintaining the Grease configuration

by Dale Henrichs

For Gemstone, I generate (and cache) the attributes based on programmatic access to the image version number... Dale ----- Original Message ----- | From: "StÃ©phane Ducasse" <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 12:58:25 PM | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Who is maintaining the Grease configuration | | Ok I will do it. | We should add this to our process. | | Stef | | | > The first thing that I ran into is that the attributes for Pharo2.0 | > need to be updated ... right now: | > | > ConfigurationOfGrease project attributes | > | > returns: | > | > an OrderedCollection(#common #squeakCommon #pharo #'pharo1.x' | > #'pharo1.4.x') | > | > Looks like SmalltalkImage>>metacelloPlatformAttributes needs to be | > updated to return: | > | > #(#squeakCommon #pharo #'pharo2.x' #'pharo2.0.x') | > | > Dale | > | > ----- Original Message ----- | > | From: "StÃ©phane Ducasse" <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> | > | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | > | Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 10:26:18 AM | > | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Who is maintaining the Grease | > | configuration | > | | > | Thanks | > | I will start to add the pharo2.0.x to some configurations too. | > | | > | Stef | > | | > | > I'm the editor for the Grease configuration, so I'll take this | > | > on | > | > ... | > | > | > | > Dale | > | > | > | > ----- Original Message ----- | > | > | From: "StÃ©phane Ducasse" <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> | > | > | To: "Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Development" | > | > | <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> | > | > | Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 7:37:14 AM | > | > | Subject: [Pharo-project] Who is maintaining the Grease | > | > | configuration | > | > | | > | > | Because we should create a symbolic version for 20 | > | > | | > | > | This package depends on the following classes: | > | > | BlockContext | > | > | You must resolve these dependencies before you will be able | > | > | to | > | > | load | > | > | these definitions: | > | > | fixCallbackTemps | > | > | tempVarRefs | > | > | valueWithPossibleArguments: | > | > | | > | > | | > | > | | > | > | > | | > | | > | | > | | |

April 25, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Nautilus for Pharo 2.0?

by Gary Chambers

As, I'll start using Nautilus... Regards, Gary Sent from my iPad On 25 Apr 2012, at 20:43, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Gary > > let us shake a bit 2.0 before jumping. :) > > Stef > > > On Apr 25, 2012, at 7:41 PM, Gary Chambers wrote: > >> Ar, will switch once migrated our stuff from (early) 1.4... >> >> Regards, Gary >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dale Henrichs" <dhenrich(a)vmware.com> >> To: <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 6:24 PM >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Nautilus for Pharo 2.0? >> >> >>> And Nautilus looks and drives nicely (after a few minutes in Pharo2.0 myself:) >>> >>> Dale >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> | From: "Mariano Martinez Peck" <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> >>> | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> | Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 10:14:03 AM >>> | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Nautilus for Pharo 2.0? >>> | >>> | >>> | >>> | >>> | >>> | On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 6:20 PM, Benjamin < >>> | benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo(a)gmail.com > wrote: >>> | >>> | >>> | Since a couple of minutes, Nautilus is part of Nautilus 2.0 >>> | >>> | >>> | >>> | s/Nautilus 2.0/Pharo 2.0 >>> | >>> | ;) >>> | >>> | >>> | >>> | Ben >>> | >>> | >>> | >>> | On Apr 25, 2012, at 6:17 PM, Noury Bouraqadi wrote: >>> | >>> | > Any plans to have an auto-build on Jenkins? >>> | > >>> | > Noury >>> | > -- >>> | > http://twitter.com/#!/NouryBouraqadi >>> | > http://www.kroobe.com/profile/noury >>> | > >>> | > >>> | > Afin de contribuer au respect de l'environnement, >>> | > merci de n'imprimer ce courriel qu'en cas de necessite >>> | > >>> | > Please consider the environment before you print >>> | > >>> | > >>> | > >>> | > >>> | >>> | >>> | >>> | >>> | >>> | -- >>> | Mariano >>> | http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>> | >>> | >> >> > >

April 25, 2012