- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Removing ReferenceStream

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Yes excellent idea we should update the log regularly. Stef > to "take the bull by the horns", I already started the page: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/MIgrationFrom14To20 > > we should use it and point to it somewhere in the site, to allow developers to find it (this list could be merged with http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/ActionsInPharo2, I don't know).

June 6, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Removing ReferenceStream

by Esteban Lorenzano

Hi, I think is hard to document how to migrate everything from 1.1 to 2.0. What is possible and we should do is to document in the wiki the migration path from 1.4 to 2.0, in those cases in which an adjustment is needed (like this one). I'm not proposing to re-write documentation there, just to keep a single list of: "we are loosing compatibility with x, please use y instead" (and a link to the available documentation, if needed). to "take the bull by the horns", I already started the page: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/MIgrationFrom14To20 we should use it and point to it somewhere in the site, to allow developers to find it (this list could be merged with http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/ActionsInPharo2, I don't know). Esteban On Jun 6, 2012, at 10:22 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > Ok: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6037 > > On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 10:06 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 8:45 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On Jun 5, 2012, at 10:18 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > Hi guys. Right now ReferenceStream is deprecated, not removed. In another thread, I asked about cleaning DataStream and let it ONLY for Monticello. That way we can really simplify DataStream, remove DiskProxy and much more. For more details see: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6036. Then whoever need a serializer, it can use Fuel which is already integrated. > > The problem is that keeping ReferenceStream as deprecated means that it has to run...meaning that I cannot remove nothing but deprecate everything...DataStream has extension methods in about 20 classses...meaning I have to rename 20 protocols from *SystemObject Storage to *Depreacted20. Apart from even more work is needed to keep it "alive". > > > > So...sometimes it is really hard to keep everything as deprecated. We don't have manpower enough to keep everything 100% deprecated 100% of the time. Fuel works out of the box from Pharo 1.1 to 2.0 so if anybody needs to move data from previous images, he can use Fuel. Not sure how many people is using ReferenceStream but I have been founding bugs in the last years that nobody even reported.. > > > > So, can I remove ReferenceStream? > > I think yes. > > Fuel is very easy to use, so clients can be changed to use Fuel quite quickly. > And migration can be done by loading fuel in 1.4 (or 1.3). > > Or in 1.2 or in 1.1. > > > Marcus > > > -- > Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de > > > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >

June 6, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Removing ReferenceStream

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Ok: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6037 On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 10:06 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck < marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 8:45 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>wrote: > >> >> On Jun 5, 2012, at 10:18 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: >> >> > Hi guys. Right now ReferenceStream is deprecated, not removed. In >> another thread, I asked about cleaning DataStream and let it ONLY for >> Monticello. That way we can really simplify DataStream, remove DiskProxy >> and much more. For more details see: >> http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6036. Then whoever need >> a serializer, it can use Fuel which is already integrated. >> > The problem is that keeping ReferenceStream as deprecated means that it >> has to run...meaning that I cannot remove nothing but deprecate >> everything...DataStream has extension methods in about 20 >> classses...meaning I have to rename 20 protocols from *SystemObject Storage >> to *Depreacted20. Apart from even more work is needed to keep it "alive". >> > >> > So...sometimes it is really hard to keep everything as deprecated. We >> don't have manpower enough to keep everything 100% deprecated 100% of the >> time. Fuel works out of the box from Pharo 1.1 to 2.0 so if anybody needs >> to move data from previous images, he can use Fuel. Not sure how many >> people is using ReferenceStream but I have been founding bugs in the last >> years that nobody even reported.. >> > >> > So, can I remove ReferenceStream? >> >> I think yes. >> >> Fuel is very easy to use, so clients can be changed to use Fuel quite >> quickly. >> And migration can be done by loading fuel in 1.4 (or 1.3). >> > > Or in 1.2 or in 1.1. > > >> >> Marcus >> >> >> -- >> Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de >> >> >> > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

June 6, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Removing ReferenceStream

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 8:45 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>wrote: > > On Jun 5, 2012, at 10:18 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > Hi guys. Right now ReferenceStream is deprecated, not removed. In > another thread, I asked about cleaning DataStream and let it ONLY for > Monticello. That way we can really simplify DataStream, remove DiskProxy > and much more. For more details see: > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6036. Then whoever need a > serializer, it can use Fuel which is already integrated. > > The problem is that keeping ReferenceStream as deprecated means that it > has to run...meaning that I cannot remove nothing but deprecate > everything...DataStream has extension methods in about 20 > classses...meaning I have to rename 20 protocols from *SystemObject Storage > to *Depreacted20. Apart from even more work is needed to keep it "alive". > > > > So...sometimes it is really hard to keep everything as deprecated. We > don't have manpower enough to keep everything 100% deprecated 100% of the > time. Fuel works out of the box from Pharo 1.1 to 2.0 so if anybody needs > to move data from previous images, he can use Fuel. Not sure how many > people is using ReferenceStream but I have been founding bugs in the last > years that nobody even reported.. > > > > So, can I remove ReferenceStream? > > I think yes. > > Fuel is very easy to use, so clients can be changed to use Fuel quite > quickly. > And migration can be done by loading fuel in 1.4 (or 1.3). > Or in 1.2 or in 1.1. > > Marcus > > > -- > Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de > > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

June 6, 2012

[Pharo-project] Dr. Geo in your native language

by Hilaire Fernandes

Hell guys, I am looking for people to translate Dr. Geo in national languages. Kids need the interface in their native language to use it. Already we have French, Spanish (need some review), German, Chinese, Korean, Russan, Italian,... But we miss many translation in European languages: Dutch, Danish, Swedish, Portuguese, Gaelic,... . Greek will be great as DrGeo is related to Euclidean geometry! Japan is also missing! Dr. Geo in Korean: http://twitter.com/drgeo2/status/209985866741981185/photo/1 To participate it is easy, you just need a web browser pointed at http://translate.drgeo.eu, created a login, then proceed. The work can be done by small steps. I plan to release 12.07 end of June. Drop me a line if you are interested, or fell free to start. Hilaire

June 6, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Removing ReferenceStream

by Marcus Denker

On Jun 5, 2012, at 10:18 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > Hi guys. Right now ReferenceStream is deprecated, not removed. In another thread, I asked about cleaning DataStream and let it ONLY for Monticello. That way we can really simplify DataStream, remove DiskProxy and much more. For more details see: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6036. Then whoever need a serializer, it can use Fuel which is already integrated. > The problem is that keeping ReferenceStream as deprecated means that it has to run...meaning that I cannot remove nothing but deprecate everything...DataStream has extension methods in about 20 classses...meaning I have to rename 20 protocols from *SystemObject Storage to *Depreacted20. Apart from even more work is needed to keep it "alive". > > So...sometimes it is really hard to keep everything as deprecated. We don't have manpower enough to keep everything 100% deprecated 100% of the time. Fuel works out of the box from Pharo 1.1 to 2.0 so if anybody needs to move data from previous images, he can use Fuel. Not sure how many people is using ReferenceStream but I have been founding bugs in the last years that nobody even reported.. > > So, can I remove ReferenceStream? I think yes. Fuel is very easy to use, so clients can be changed to use Fuel quite quickly. And migration can be done by loading fuel in 1.4 (or 1.3). Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

June 6, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] String printOn: / storeOn:

by Nicolas Cellier

The assumption was that a Smalltalk literal would print itself as a Smalltalk literal. I can't tell if this is a vital feature, and we also have storeOn:... But I can tell you're gonna break a lot of expectations. What are you looking for? Something like C++stream << aString ? Keith Hodge added such support Stream>> << items items putOn: self. ^ self Stream>>putOn:aStream ^aStream nextPutAll: self. Or is it something else? Nicolas 2012/6/5 Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com>: > > On 2012-06-05, at 22:33, Chris Cunningham wrote: > >> On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 12:53 PM, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> I think that printing on streams could be improved by changing String >> #printOn: to >>> >>> printOn: aStream >>> Â Â Â Â aStream nextPutAll: self >>> >> >> Ah, but if you change it to this, then >> >> Â Â Â String streamContents: [ :s| s print: 'an Object'] >> equals: >> Â Â Â String streamContents: [ :s| s print: Object new ] >> >> That is, from the printed version, you can't tell which one is >> actually a string. Â Which could get weird in Inspectors. > > true :) but the inspector mostly works on the real object so I wouldn't care too much about that :)

June 6, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] String printOn: / storeOn:

by Camillo Bruni

On 2012-06-05, at 22:33, Chris Cunningham wrote: > On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 12:53 PM, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> I think that printing on streams could be improved by changing String >> #printOn: to >> >> printOn: aStream >> aStream nextPutAll: self >> > > Ah, but if you change it to this, then > > String streamContents: [ :s| s print: 'an Object'] > equals: > String streamContents: [ :s| s print: Object new ] > > That is, from the printed version, you can't tell which one is > actually a string. Which could get weird in Inspectors. true :) but the inspector mostly works on the real object so I wouldn't care too much about that :)

June 5, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] String printOn: / storeOn:

by Chris Cunningham

On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 12:53 PM, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I think that printing on streams could be improved by changing String >> #printOn: to > > printOn: aStream > Â Â Â Â aStream nextPutAll: self > Ah, but if you change it to this, then String streamContents: [ :s| s print: 'an Object'] equals: String streamContents: [ :s| s print: Object new ] That is, from the printed version, you can't tell which one is actually a string. Which could get weird in Inpsectors. -Chris

June 5, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Removing ReferenceStream

by Guillermo Polito

On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 10:18 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck < marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi guys. Right now ReferenceStream is deprecated, not removed. In another > thread, I asked about cleaning DataStream and let it ONLY for Monticello. > That way we can really simplify DataStream, remove DiskProxy and much more. > For more details see: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6036. > Then whoever need a serializer, it can use Fuel which is already > integrated. > The problem is that keeping ReferenceStream as deprecated means that it > has to run...meaning that I cannot remove nothing but deprecate > everything...DataStream has extension methods in about 20 > classses...meaning I have to rename 20 protocols from *SystemObject Storage > to *Depreacted20. Apart from even more work is needed to keep it "alive". > > So...sometimes it is really hard to keep everything as deprecated. We > don't have manpower enough to keep everything 100% deprecated 100% of the > time. Fuel works out of the box from Pharo 1.1 to 2.0 so if anybody needs > to move data from previous images, he can use Fuel. Not sure how many > people is using ReferenceStream but I have been founding bugs in the last > years that nobody even reported.. > > So, can I remove ReferenceStream? > I vote yes. If anyone needs migrate data between pharo 1.x and 2.0, and he can use fuel, then there is no problem at all. But we should document this in a wiki page and say: To migrate apps from pharo 1.x to 2.0 - if you use reference stream, you should use fuel. You can migrate the data with blablabla... - .... There is a saying in spanish "Cuentas claras mantienen la amistad" that I think can be translated in english as "Good fences make good neighbors"... > > thanks > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > >

June 5, 2012