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Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub

by Dale Henrichs

FS-Git will not monkey with the format of the data stored on disk ... it will be able to support FileTree format ... FS-Git gives you control over git from within your image ... direct commits to your git repository from the MonticelloBrowser for example... Dale ----- Original Message ----- | From: "Sven Van Caekenberghe" <sven(a)beta9.be> | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | Sent: Wednesday, July 4, 2012 6:25:21 AM | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub | | | On 04 Jul 2012, at 15:10, Camillo Bruni wrote: | | > For instance check the Pharo-2.0-Core fileout: | > https://github.com/PharoProject/pharo-core | | Cool! | | But that is a FileTree version with meta data, right ? | Not FS-Git ? | | |

July 4, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub

by Dale Henrichs

embedded replies ----- Original Message ----- | From: "Torsten Bergmann" <astares(a)gmx.de> | To: pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | Sent: Wednesday, July 4, 2012 6:02:06 AM | Subject: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub | | >can you think of any feature we could have now we couldn't with Git? | | With Squeaksource/Monticello I'm currently able to have a web based | Smalltalk browser. So I dont have to fire up an image to | digg into other peoples code. | | I expect that could be done with Git hosted projects too - but | requires some work and another server providing the ST-IDE like | feeling. | So the "Smalltalk like user experience" is not available out of the | box on the usual hosting services. This is a small step backward. | GitHub has a feature called gh-pages[1] that allows you to define a project-specific web-site embedded in your project and hosted by GitHub. I leverage that feature to provide an Amber-based view of my GitHub projects[2]. Click on the `Browse the GitHubPage class` button to bring up the Amber Smalltalk browser:) ... hosted by GitHub and your browser. There is a web-based api[3] for accessing the the information in a github project that could be leveraged for providing Smalltalk brower for the packages in a GitHub project. Amber already understands the FileTree package structure[4], so it just a simple matter of programming ... in Smalltalk! [1] http://pages.github.com/ [2] http://dalehenrich.github.com/ [3] http://developer.github.com/ [4] https://github.com/CampSmalltalk/amber-cypress/blob/master/README.md | One thing is a must: the usual handling of code should be | preserved. As far as I understand this is the case even | with an GIT-based MC!? | | Some questions: | | 1. Usually Git requires a local git installation. | Is the Git-MC binding a pure ST solution | working on all platforms or does it require some native | support? For direct project development git/mercurial/svn would be required. To the extent that FS-Git[1] supports direct access to GitHub (I believe that level of support is planned) then no local installation would be required. I am adding GitHub support to Metacello (in the form of a Monticello Repository[2]) and it downloads a zipped copy of the directory structure from GitHub directly (using curl via OSProcess at the moment), so consumers of a project do not need to have git installed. [1] https://github.com/dalehenrich/FSGit [2] https://github.com/dalehenrich/metacello-work/tree/master/repository/Metace… | 2. Can I setup an own local repo in a simple directory similar | to Monticello or will it require some github stuff. The FileTree format is directory based and does not depend upon git in any way ... you can use svn, mercurial to manage the directory contents ... I am highlighting git/github because it is a complete solution, but over time I expect that svn support can be added as well as support for alternatives to github ... | 3. Will the local package cache still contain MCZ's? It should ... I'm not completely familiar with how packages get added to the package cache and it appears that the FileTree packages aren't magically added to the cache[1] ... [1] https://github.com/dalehenrich/filetree/issues/42 | | On the other hand hosting on file based versioning systems | would make source code indexable for search engines and | could raise Smalltalks place in the (stupid) TIOBE index ;) No kidding ... Smalltalk is currently #44[1] on GitHub and when I started in January it was #41... The HollingBerries project[2] is a good example of a way to get exposure to the 1 million developers on GitHub. I submitted my source as a single file, because I wanted it to be readable by non-Smalltalks ... if you call chunk format readable:) For my take, I avoided using conditionals ... #detect: was as close as I got:), I encourage other folks to contribute their approach. [1] https://github.com/languages/Smalltalk [2] https://github.com/apauley/HollingBerries | | I could imagine both: file based repos (Git) as well as | ST-only solutions as long as they work and reliable. | At the end of the day it's nothing more than a different | representation of code. | | An ST-only server side solution would at least allow for | easy customization and allow the community to adapt the hosting | to its needs. All good points! Dale

July 4, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Setting MC cache directory (was renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub)

by Marcus Denker

On Jul 4, 2012, at 6:02 PM, Camillo Bruni wrote: > > On 2012-07-04, at 17:36, Torsten Bergmann wrote: > >> Camillo wrote: >>> Here in lille almost everybody sets up symlinks to have a single shared >>> instance of a package-cache :) >> >> This should be part of the past if issue #6260 is integrated (see [1]) >> The monkey is here no very helpful for the fix - since it laments on >> test that were red before and sets the issue state to WorkNeeded. > > I'll put ben on it to see what the problem with the monkey is. > > We run tests twice, once before and once after loading to avoid issues with > existing failing tests, so this behavior is rather strange :) > Take care that the MC tests are not immune to be rune twice. (they are actually so brittle and complex that I sometimes think we should just delete them). Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

July 4, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Setting MC cache directory (was renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub)

by Camillo Bruni

On 2012-07-04, at 17:36, Torsten Bergmann wrote: > Camillo wrote: >> Here in lille almost everybody sets up symlinks to have a single shared >> instance of a package-cache :) > > This should be part of the past if issue #6260 is integrated (see [1]) > The monkey is here no very helpful for the fix - since it laments on > test that were red before and sets the issue state to WorkNeeded. I'll put ben on it to see what the problem with the monkey is. We run tests twice, once before and once after loading to avoid issues with existing failing tests, so this behavior is rather strange :) > Any real person able to review and integrate it? > > There is also Marianos solution, see [2] > > Bye > T. > > [1] http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6260 > [2] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/2012-July/067083.html >

July 4, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub

by Dale Henrichs

Yes, FileTree is actually modeling the Monticello definition structure on disk ... git does a very good job of tracking changes at the method level when methods are stored in separate files (it recognizes method renames) ... multiple files makes reading source on disk a bit awkward, but that's what we've got the Smalltalk image for ... how many people out there unzip their .mcz files to read Smalltalk source? Dale ----- Original Message ----- | From: "Frank Shearar" <frank.shearar(a)gmail.com> | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | Sent: Wednesday, July 4, 2012 6:01:19 AM | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub | | On 4 July 2012 13:52, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: | >> Gitocello [1] takes this approach. While Tim Felgentreff started | >> it to | >> ease porting between Squeak and GNU Smalltalk, it works just fine | >> as a | >> new MC backend. I use it a fair bit [2][3][4]. | >> | >> Mind you I _haven't_ tried collaboration with it. If you had | >> conflicts | >> you would need to use git to address the conflicts, and you can | >> have | >> "inter-method" conflicts which are impossible with FileTree. (In | >> other | >> words, conflict markers could start in one method and end in | >> another.) | >> Probably the chunk format's date stuff would get annoying, as | >> well. | >> | >> | >> [1] https://github.com/timfel/gitocello | >> [2] https://github.com/frankshearar/Unification | >> [3] https://github.com/frankshearar/PersistentUnionFind | >> [4] https://github.com/frankshearar/Zippers | >> | >> frank | > | > ah nice, though you went for the one file per class approach. | > | > Which I think is not the best solution for pharo. | > For instance I want to replace the .changes / .sources file with | > one git repository which allows you to simply load new changes on | > demand and find methods with a minimal effort :) | | Well, "you" is "Tim", but sure. Yes. I like Gitocello's approach | because I can use GitHub without having 1000 mini files. I also like | FileTree's approach of method-per-file, because that's the natural | granularity of Smalltalk code. I seem to recall Sean DeNigris showing | a screenshot of vim that "stitched" multiple files together to solve | the "FileTree problem". And I'd say that yes, if you changed the | .changes file into a repo (which is an awesome idea), you'd | definitely | want method-per-file. You get method history for free! | | frank | |

July 4, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub

by Dale Henrichs

Gitocello was done to port files to Gnu Smalltalk (which uses the class per file model). ----- Original Message ----- | From: "Camillo Bruni" <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | Sent: Wednesday, July 4, 2012 5:52:19 AM | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub | | > Gitocello [1] takes this approach. While Tim Felgentreff started it | > to | > ease porting between Squeak and GNU Smalltalk, it works just fine | > as a | > new MC backend. I use it a fair bit [2][3][4]. | > | > Mind you I _haven't_ tried collaboration with it. If you had | > conflicts | > you would need to use git to address the conflicts, and you can | > have | > "inter-method" conflicts which are impossible with FileTree. (In | > other | > words, conflict markers could start in one method and end in | > another.) | > Probably the chunk format's date stuff would get annoying, as well. | > | > | > [1] https://github.com/timfel/gitocello | > [2] https://github.com/frankshearar/Unification | > [3] https://github.com/frankshearar/PersistentUnionFind | > [4] https://github.com/frankshearar/Zippers | > | > frank | | ah nice, though you went for the one file per class approach. | | Which I think is not the best solution for pharo. | For instance I want to replace the .changes / .sources file with | one git repository which allows you to simply load new changes on | demand and find methods with a minimal effort :) | |

July 4, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Setting MC cache directory (was renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub)

by phil＠highoctane.be

Well, these so-called standards are well and nice but frankly, even my vim editor uses the same as maven and friends. Some examples: .m2, .mc, .inkscape, .subversion, .hg, .gitconfig, .Xcode, .cache, .cups, .wireshark, .netbeans All in my ~ on *nix and in %USERPROFILE% on Windows There are standards and defacto standards. I am with the second ones. Having package-cache embedded inside the application on OSX is plain ugly. Like storing your data in "Program Files". Erk! Anyway, I can put it where I want on my own, so let's end this thread. Phil 2012/7/4 Damien Cassou <damien.cassou(a)gmail.com> > On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 5:28 PM, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> > wrote: > > package-cache, the .m2 of Pharo... But .m2 is under ~ by default. > > Why couldn't package-cache be like that on *nix by default and under the > > %USERPROFILE% on Windows? > > because maven does not use standard mechanisms: > http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html > > -- > Damien Cassou > http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st > > "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them > popular by not having them." James Iry > >

July 4, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub

by Dale Henrichs

Herby, As Stef and Sven have pointed out, the support for git and github is not quite there ... I provide details of what is in my other post. The basic idea is that Metacello[1] will make it possible for an orderly migration of projects to git/github. The real advantage of github is not as a mirror site, but as the primary project hosting site ... Here are a couple of the very cool collaborative features of Github: - per project issue list[2] - here's a pull request discussion[3] with line by line annotations of the code diff - here's the continuous integration history[4] for the metacello project a build is launched by TravisCI on each "push" to the repository. For the master branch of the Metacello project I build against both pharo and squeak[5]. the build loads and runs the unit tests. If the unit tests fail, I get a summary[6] of the failed tests. Dale [1] https://github.com/dalehenrich/metacello-work [2] https://github.com/dalehenrich/metacello-work/issues?direction=desc&sort=up… [3] https://github.com/pdebruic/zinc/commit/5f09f70ba9abab24314ac8ed5e6cba668ac… [4] http://travis-ci.org/#!/dalehenrich/metacello-work/builds [5] http://travis-ci.org/#!/dalehenrich/metacello-work/builds/1768706 [6] http://travis-ci.org/#!/dalehenrich/metacello-work/jobs/1751041/L3612 ----- Original Message ----- | From: "Herby VojÄÃk" <herby(a)mailbox.sk> | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | Sent: Wednesday, July 4, 2012 5:39:38 AM | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub | | | | Camillo Bruni wrote: | > On 2012-07-04, at 14:02, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: | > | >> On 04 Jul 2012, at 13:50, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: | >> | >>> I am using Mercurial for all of the other projects and | >>> technologies. | >>> | >>> With a full copy of everything locally, it helps indeed when we | >>> get crashes... | >>> | >>> But GIT/Hg isn't giving you the change sorter. | >> I have used/tried FileTree/Git(hub) a bit and it is cool and it | >> works. | >> But I do miss (tools) integration in the image. | >> The workflow also changes a bit, it is no longer all Smalltalk. | >> | >> IMHO it is not yet quite ready. | > | > indeed. I remember that my solution didn't change a thing from the | > image side | > experience. It was "simply" a git backend for MC. | | But, well, you should then do something with near-zero obstacle | experience, like mirroring all included-by-default packages on github | or | butbucket, uploading your wrapper/backend with ConfigurationOf and | all | bells and whistles into some MC repository (SmalltalkHub?), include | with | it the code that automatically re-assigns repository paths from | SqueakSource/whatever into github, so people can just load it and get | in. | | That way, more or them could actually try. | | Herby | |

July 4, 2012

[Pharo-project] Setting MC cache directory (was renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub)

by Torsten Bergmann

Camillo wrote: >Here in lille almost everybody sets up symlinks to have a single shared >instance of a package-cache :) This should be part of the past if issue #6260 is integrated (see [1]) The monkey is here no very helpful for the fix - since it laments on test that were red before and sets the issue state to WorkNeeded. Any real person able to review and integrate it? There is also Marianos solution, see [2] Bye T. [1] http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6260 [2] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/2012-July/067083.html

July 4, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Setting MC cache directory (was renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub)

by Damien Cassou

On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 5:28 PM, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: > package-cache, the .m2 of Pharo... But .m2 is under ~ by default. > Why couldn't package-cache be like that on *nix by default and under the > %USERPROFILE% on Windows? because maven does not use standard mechanisms: http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry

July 4, 2012