- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub

by Dale Henrichs

Dennis, Understood... You asked a very good question! If using git meant that we would have to go backwards to text-based development I wouldn't be so enthused. In the past I was "on the record" as being very skeptical of being able to use git for Smalltalk development, but back in January when I saw HOW Otto Behrens had mapped the Monticello package structure to disk, I saw that it could work very well for Smalltalk development. Dale ----- Original Message ----- | From: "Dennis Schetinin" <chaetal(a)gmail.com> | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | Sent: Wednesday, July 4, 2012 9:03:01 PM | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub | | | Dale, | | | Thank you for all (this and other) explanations you provided on the | topic. | | | When the topic is to provide another backend for storing Smalltalk | code, it's absolutely ok and all the advantages are understood. | | | But when some people say something like "source code is text and | nothing more" (at least that's what I hear, though I can be | mistaking) and we shouldn't reinvent the wheelâ¦ and I see it in | context of "Smalltalk is so unpopular"â¦ and the logic is something | like: we should popularize it â hence we should use (preferably, | only) git for source-code control â and we should abandon images | because most developers do not like them, etc, etc. Well, it's a bit | scaring, because when I try to extrapolate and understand where it | is leading us, I wonder where's Smalltalk there? Do we need it at | all?! :) | | | Once again, I just feel this tendency in our society, and it's very | likely I'm misunderstanding and absolutely wrong. I'll be glad to | know I am, so I just wanted to clarify. | | | | | | Best regards, | Dennis Schetinin | Sent with Sparrow | | | | On Wednesday, 4 July 2012 Ð³. at 20:30, Dale Henrichs wrote: | | | | | | Dennis, | | | If you look at the Cypress format[1] (used by FileTree), it is the | Monticello package structure "serialized to disk". Reading the | Cypress format from disk is no different than materializing the | Monticello package structure from an .mcz file. So any program that | an reason about the definitions from an .mcz file can reason about | the definitions from the Cypress format. | | | Cypress format may look like text, but to me I see Smalltalk | objects:) | | | Dale | | | [1] | https://github.com/CampSmalltalk/Cypress/blob/master/img/CypressStructure-S… | ----- Original Message ----- | | From: "Dennis Schetinin" < chaetal(a)gmail.com > | | To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | | Sent: Wednesday, July 4, 2012 6:29:40 AM | | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] renggli mirror created on smalltalkhub | | | | | | On Wednesday, 4 July 2012 Ð³. at 16:11, Damien Cassou wrote: | | | | | | | | | | On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 2:09 PM, Dennis Schetinin < | | chaetal(a)gmail.com | | > wrote: | | | | | | | | Am I wrong considering migration to Git-or-AnythingElseTextOriented | | to be a | | give up on hopes for a real object-oriented source | | control/management | | as it | | could and should be in Smalltalk? | | | | | | can you think of any feature we could have now we couldn't with | | Git? | | I didn't say "now", I talked about "hopes". E.g. hopes for "Source" | | Control Tool being aware of refactorings and other *operations* I | | apply to my program, instead of treating it as a plain text with | | some changes of unknown nature. I'm not sure it's possible right | | now | | (I know it's not, better to say?). But with a Smalltalk-based | | source | | control we can have it on one splendid day in the future. And I | | think on the Git way we'll finish with just some advanced | | text-comparison algorithms. No? | | | | | | | | Best regards, | | Dennis Schetinin | | Sent with Sparrow | |

July 5, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] SSL plugins in Jenkins one click

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

You are of course right, Torsten. I am beginning to get *very* tired of this situation. Has anybody ever tried downloading missing plugins from the image side and then install them ? Can that be done (correctly), I mean does the VM have to restart then ? What about needed permissions ? If it can be done, I would be more than willing to write and integrate the necessary Smalltalk code, beginning with the SSL plugin. Sven On 05 Jul 2012, at 14:49, Torsten Bergmann wrote: > The one click from Jenkins does not include the SSL plugins > for Windows. With the recent additions of Zinc/Zodiac > to Pharo 2.0 some tests fail. > So one has to manually download the DLLs for Windows > > http://code.google.com/p/squeakssl/downloads/list > > and place it in the same directory as the VM. > > Apologize if this is a known and already on the (Jenkins) > todo list. At least I havent found an issue for it. > Should we open one? > > Bye > T.

July 5, 2012

[Pharo-project] git git git

by Camillo Bruni

To throw some more oil in the file. This is how versioning will work in Pharo: =================================================================================== 1. I prepared a complete FileSystem representation of all the units in the image - Packages - Classes - Methods 2. Model Resources instead of saving them in CompiledMethod - Packages have resources - Classes have resources - The resources themselves are a complete FileSystem allowing for all normal FS operations - See the attached image for a working prototype 3. Choose a decent, existing, stable versioning system (Since I know GIT it's git) - it must be distributed - it must be stable - it must support lazy loading 4. Supporting versioning of the internal tree structure - copy over the internal tree to the git repos - create a new commit message - upload it to some remote / external / local repository 5. Rewrite .changes file to work on top of a similar structure - cache the changes methods in a local git repos - commit on a regular interval - add support for restoring that 6. Rewrite existing method versions on top of a similar structure - lazily load the versions from a remote git location - hold the sources in a central git repository (much like PharoV10.sources) =================================================================================== I will provide a working prototype within a week, cause this issue is annoying me so much that it makes me feel like a complete retard when using pharo.

July 5, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Zinc in 1.4

by Esteban Lorenzano

merci :) On Jul 5, 2012, at 2:11 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > > On 04 Jul 2012, at 17:13, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > >> Sven, if you want newer Zinc versions in pharo 1.4, could you provide the slice or packages? > > See detais in: > > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6064 > >

July 5, 2012

[Pharo-project] SSL plugins in Jenkins one click

by Torsten Bergmann

The one click from Jenkins does not include the SSL plugins for Windows. With the recent additions of Zinc/Zodiac to Pharo 2.0 some tests fail. So one has to manually download the DLLs for Windows http://code.google.com/p/squeakssl/downloads/list and place it in the same directory as the VM. Apologize if this is a known and already on the (Jenkins) todo list. At least I havent found an issue for it. Should we open one? Bye T.

July 5, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Putting Cairo in the VM?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

When I closed and reopen it, it worked :) Still would be good to get it working the first time. Thanks again igor. Stef On Jul 5, 2012, at 2:44 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Igor I loaded everything andâ¦ it nearly worked :) > > > except > First > > This package depends on the following classes: > MultiNewParagraph > You must resolve these dependencies before you will be able to load these definitions: > drawOnAthensCanvas:bounds: > > > second > loadSymbol: aSymbolName fromModule: moduleName > > (moduleName = '' or: [moduleName = 0 ]) ifTrue: [ > "if module name is empty, try to retrieve symbol from globals " > ^ self getGlobalSymbolPointer: aSymbolName > ]. > ^ super loadSymbol: aSymbolName fromModule: moduleName > > > > error: aString > "Throw a generic Error exception." > > ^Error new signal: aString > > > 'failed to get a symbol address: cairo_image_surface_create' > > here is what I did > > > Gofer it > url: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/Athens'; > package: 'ConfigurationOfAthens'; > load. > (Smalltalk globals classNamed: 'ConfigurationOfAthens') loadBleedingEdge. > > Gofer it > url: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/MetacelloRepository'; > package: 'ConfigurationOfXMLSupport'; > load. > (Smalltalk globals classNamed: 'ConfigurationOfXMLSupport') load. > > Gofer it > squeaksource: 'Athens'; > package: 'Athens-SVG'; > load. > > ASZoomerMorph new > svg: 'Coche_ok_verte.svg' zoom: 0.1; > openInWorld > > > > > > > On Jul 5, 2012, at 9:28 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > >> On 5 July 2012 09:00, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> On 5 July 2012 07:37, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>>> It is working? >>>> Because when I tried to open my athens image it crashes. >>>> Igor this is the image you program the animationMorph. >>>> >>>> Stef >>>> >>> >>> I had no time to check the build yet.. >>> Will do it now. >>> >> ok.. the build is invalid.. >> it looks like the search path changes for vm plugins are not integrated/changed. >> >> To determine that, you can simply open settings browser and in >> appearance/freetype it should say that freetype available. >> >> Will check that with Esteban.. i thought we already comitted that change. >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Igor Stasenko. >> > >

July 5, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Putting Cairo in the VM?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Igor I loaded everything andâ¦ it nearly worked :) except First This package depends on the following classes: MultiNewParagraph You must resolve these dependencies before you will be able to load these definitions: drawOnAthensCanvas:bounds: second loadSymbol: aSymbolName fromModule: moduleName (moduleName = '' or: [moduleName = 0 ]) ifTrue: [ "if module name is empty, try to retrieve symbol from globals " ^ self getGlobalSymbolPointer: aSymbolName ]. ^ super loadSymbol: aSymbolName fromModule: moduleName error: aString "Throw a generic Error exception." ^Error new signal: aString 'failed to get a symbol address: cairo_image_surface_create' here is what I did Gofer it url: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/Athens'; package: 'ConfigurationOfAthens'; load. (Smalltalk globals classNamed: 'ConfigurationOfAthens') loadBleedingEdge. Gofer it url: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/MetacelloRepository'; package: 'ConfigurationOfXMLSupport'; load. (Smalltalk globals classNamed: 'ConfigurationOfXMLSupport') load. Gofer it squeaksource: 'Athens'; package: 'Athens-SVG'; load. ASZoomerMorph new svg: 'Coche_ok_verte.svg' zoom: 0.1; openInWorld On Jul 5, 2012, at 9:28 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > On 5 July 2012 09:00, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> On 5 July 2012 07:37, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>> It is working? >>> Because when I tried to open my athens image it crashes. >>> Igor this is the image you program the animationMorph. >>> >>> Stef >>> >> >> I had no time to check the build yet.. >> Will do it now. >> > ok.. the build is invalid.. > it looks like the search path changes for vm plugins are not integrated/changed. > > To determine that, you can simply open settings browser and in > appearance/freetype it should say that freetype available. > > Will check that with Esteban.. i thought we already comitted that change. > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. >

July 5, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Is Pharo a Smalltalk or Smalltalk inspired? (was I added a german wikipedia article on pharo)

by Igor Stasenko

On 5 July 2012 11:44, Janko MivÅ¡ek <janko.mivsek(a)eranova.si> wrote: > Hi guys, > > On 05. 07. 2012 11:07, Marcus Denker wrote: >> On Jul 5, 2012, at 10:59 AM, Helene Bilbo wrote: > >>> And i ask, >>> because the first line on the Pharo homepage says itâs: >>> "Smalltalk-inspiredâ. > >> The idea is that if Pharo is Smalltak, it will always be Smalltalk. We can not move >> on. If it is Smalltalk Inspired, we can take the *ideas* behind Smalltalk and seriously >> move forward. >> >> E.g. take the Slots. Smalltalk has no first class Slots, Pharo will. If Pharo would *be* Smalltalk >> it could not. > Pharo IS smalltalk. Smalltalk by its nature are made to be easily changed. I don't remember the precise quote from Alan Kay, where he said that he feels a bit disappointed about the fact that people never thought about having more subclasses of Behavior than just Class and Metaclass. Please don't turn the idea into dogma. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

July 5, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo-consortium] update on the consortium poll

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Thanks a lot Stef > Beta Nine will be a Bronze Organization sponsor. > I will be an Individual Golden/Professional sponsor as well. > > It is great to see so much enthusiasm ! Yes and it will grow I'm sure. > > Sven > > On 05 Jul 2012, at 11:19, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> Hi pharoers >> >> Here is so far the state of replies I compiled. If I miss you or misclassified tell me. >> By end of July I will build a case to ask for INRIA support. So I will refresh this list and group mails to build a convincing case. >> Pharo2.0 is going in the right direction. With a mini core, vector graphics, ssh, it is starting to be a nice platform for new challenges. >> Thanks you all for your trust. >> >> Stef >> >> So far >> 4000 gold >> 8000 silver >> 5000 bronze >> 500 sponsor >> 2500 individual plus >> 480 individual >> -------------------- >> 20480 Euros >> >> >> Gold (4000) >> RMOD 4000 >> >> Silver (2000) >> 2Denker >> http://www.Synectique.eu >> Sanders Cameron company >> 2Rivers >> 8000 >> >> Bronze (1000) >> Andy bunnett company >> Eggermont company >> MAD-Environment >> www.FinWorks.biz >> netStyle.ch >> 5000 >> >> Sponsors (500) >> Caeasar Systems >> (May be IMUS)?? >> 500 >> >> Indivudual golden (100) >> Stephane Ducasse >> Marcus Denker >> Schmiedl >> Miguel Coba >> Alexandre Bergel >> >> Krish >> Brodbeck (may be bronze) >> Goran Vasic >> Guillermo Polito >> Norbert Harlt >> >> Mark Smith >> Lorenzo schiavina >> Daniel Galdames >> Leandro Caniglia >> Francois Stephany >> >> Sean De Nigris >> John O'Keefe >> Tudor Girba >> Luc Fabresse >> Florent Arrignon >> >> Lawrence Trutter >> Sabine Knofel >> Yann Monclair >> Henrik Johanssen >> Hernan Wilkinson (or bronze to be defined) >> >> 2500 >> Normal 40 >> Bill schwab >> Herve verjus >> Damien cassou >> McLeod >> Max Leske >> >> Phil Back (bronze may be) >> Yanni Chiu >> Andrea BrÃ¼hlmann >> Stefan Reichhart >> Niklaus Lutz >> >> Max Leske >> Simon Jakovina >> 480 >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-consortium mailing list >> Pharo-consortium(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-consortium >

July 5, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Magritte 2 or 3

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Jul 5, 2012, at 12:40 PM, Philippe Marschall wrote: > On 07/05/2012 12:02 PM, Serge Stinckwich wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> anyone has a copy of the Magritte repository ? I want to do a demo of Magritte. >> I know that all Lukas repository are down now. > > We have to do something about Lukas moving apartments. Every time he > does it it's a major disruption to this community. We can't continue > like this. We should buy him a van with a satellite dish. not sure he wants that :) May be just mirroring will be enough Stef > > Cheers > Philippe > > > >

July 5, 2012