- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Yet another Notation format: Object literals

by Igor Stasenko

On 19 October 2012 18:47, Dale Henrichs <dhenrich(a)vmware.com> wrote: > Igor, > > "But my aims is slightly different." and so are mine ... > > I think that we can agree on this point and move on... > :) i cannot agree on one point: JSON is harder to read to me, comparing to smalltalk literal syntax. This is a reason for dismissing 'human friendliness' comparison, because it is very subjective :) But what i want to repeat: uniformity has the value. When users, to read code, need to know single language, it is better than need to know 2 , 3 or more. So, unless there is no way to express meta (and other) information using same language, only then i won't argue why we need to use different language for information we store. A good example where you cannot do that is C projects, which contain makefiles, config files , and other. Out of curiosity, can you read this (exert from configure script): as_fn_mkdir_p () { case $as_dir in #( -*) as_dir=./$as_dir;; esac test -d "$as_dir" || eval $as_mkdir_p || { as_dirs= while :; do case $as_dir in #( *\'*) as_qdir=`$as_echo "$as_dir" | sed "s/'/'\\\\\\\\''/g"`;; #'( *) as_qdir=$as_dir;; esac as_dirs="'$as_qdir' $as_dirs" as_dir=`$as_dirname -- "$as_dir" || $as_expr X"$as_dir" : 'X$.*[^/]$//*[^/][^/]*/*$' \| \ X"$as_dir" : 'X$//$[^/]' \| \ X"$as_dir" : 'X$//$$' \| \ X"$as_dir" : 'X$/$' \| . 2>/dev/null || $as_echo X"$as_dir" | sed '/^X$.*[^/]$\/\/*[^/][^/]*\/*$/{ s//\1/ q } /^X$\/\/$[^/].*/{ s//\1/ q } /^X$\/\/$$/{ s//\1/ q } /^X$\/$.*/{ s//\1/ q } ..... as to me if we take negative infinity , and then raise it to power of positive infinity, then it will be close to "human readability" of this code. But C guys have no choice: they cannot express metainformation in C.. (or just too lazy).. But with smalltalk, we can. So why we need to use weird syntax, and weird DSLs, if we can just keep using smalltalk, and benefit (greatly) from uniformity and simplicity it has? Remember the turtles? They have to go all the way down :) -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Oct. 19, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Smart chars behavior

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

neat idea! > Hi guys, > > smart characters are good, but some times annoy... I was trying to write some tests so we could express the behavior we want of them. > So, what would you expect from typing the following in a workspace? > > ws contents: '' > type: $( > expected: '()' > current: '()' > > ws contents: '' > type: $( $( > expected: '(())' > current: '(()' > > ws contents: '' > type: $( ${ $z > expected: '({z})' > current: '({z)' > > "this same happens with simple quotes" > ws contents: '' > type: $" $" > expected: (String with: $" with: $") > current: (String with: $" with: $" with: $") > > ws contents: '' > type: $" $' > expected: (String with: $" with: $' with: $") or (String with: $" with: $' with: $' with: $") ? > current: (String with: $" with: $' with: $") > > So, what is that you feel annoying from the smart chars?? > Could you add your own example? :D > > Guille in role of detective :)

Oct. 19, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Mariano's VM-building instructions don't seem to work

by Igor Stasenko

On 19 October 2012 18:40, Craig Latta <craig(a)netjam.org> wrote: > > Hi all-- > > The Cog-building instructions at [1] don't seem to work: > > *** > > CMake Error at CMakeLists.txt:46 (add_executable): > Cannot find source file: > > > /Users/craig/me/behavior/spoon/processor/kernel/cog-2012-10-19/blessed/macbuild/resources/ProjectBuilder/MainMenu.nib > > *** > > Hack that one and get: > > *** > > CMake Error at HostWindowPlugin/CMakeLists.txt:17 (add_library): > Cannot find source file: > > > /Users/craig/me/behavior/spoon/processor/kernel/cog-2012-10-19/blessed/platforms/iOS/vm/iPhone/plugins/HostWindowPlugin/sqMacHostWindow.c > > *** > > Hack that one and get: > > CMake Error at CroquetPlugin/CMakeLists.txt:17 (add_library): > Cannot find source file: > > > /Users/craig/me/behavior/spoon/processor/kernel/cog-2012-10-19/blessed/platforms/Cross/plugins/CroquetPlugin/tribox.c > Craig, that probably a sign that you using wrong version of CMakeVMMaker package not one which is used for the sources committed in git. For that there is codegen-scripts/LoadVMMaker.st script which loads exact version of all packages used to build VM. We usually don't commit code without changing LoadVMMaker.st, and making sure it builds VM with that version. > *** > > There is no file called âtribox.câ. Now what? > > > thanks! > > -C > > [1] > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com/2011/04/10/building-the-vm-from-scratch-us… > > -- > Craig Latta > www.netjam.org/resume > +31 6 2757 7177 > + 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS) > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Oct. 19, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Mariano's VM-building instructions don't seem to work

by Craig Latta

> so please try restarting over with... Will do... I'm currently waiting for wget to build, with its many prerequisites. thanks again, -C -- Craig Latta www.netjam.org/resume +31 6 2757 7177 + 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS)

Oct. 19, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] building the Mac Cog VM from Jenkins

by Esteban Lorenzano

mmm... VMBuilder buildFromScratch. would be even cooler ;) ah, dreams... but we will get there... eventually. Esteban ps: Craig, I'm really interested on you succeed on building vm, please, keep me in track :) On Oct 19, 2012, at 8:50 PM, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On 2012-10-19, at 20:42, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> On 2012-10-19, at 20:39, Craig Latta <craig(a)netjam.org> wrote: >> >>> >>>> (RE)CREATING THE GENERATED VM SOURCES >>>> ===================================== >>>> >>>> If you downloaded the sources from gitorious do the following the VM >>>> sources are not included (unlike the jenkins build download). The >>>> following steps explain how to generate the VM sources from a build >>>> image. >>> >>> Also, in this subthread with you I was trying to get your suggested >>> jenkins solution to work, not the "download from gitorious" one. >>> HOWTOBUILD says in the jenkins case I should just be able to "cd build; >>> cmake; make". > > I'm off for tonight, let me know if it worked. I would really love to > see a proper HOWTOBUILD instruction text, that works from scratch ;) > > cami >

Oct. 19, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] building the Mac Cog VM from Jenkins

by Camillo Bruni

On 2012-10-19, at 20:42, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On 2012-10-19, at 20:39, Craig Latta <craig(a)netjam.org> wrote: > >> >>> (RE)CREATING THE GENERATED VM SOURCES >>> ===================================== >>> >>> If you downloaded the sources from gitorious do the following the VM >>> sources are not included (unlike the jenkins build download). The >>> following steps explain how to generate the VM sources from a build >>> image. >> >> Also, in this subthread with you I was trying to get your suggested >> jenkins solution to work, not the "download from gitorious" one. >> HOWTOBUILD says in the jenkins case I should just be able to "cd build; >> cmake; make". I'm off for tonight, let me know if it worked. I would really love to see a proper HOWTOBUILD instruction text, that works from scratch ;) cami

Oct. 19, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] building the Mac Cog VM from Jenkins

by Camillo Bruni

On 2012-10-19, at 20:39, Craig Latta <craig(a)netjam.org> wrote: > >> (RE)CREATING THE GENERATED VM SOURCES >> ===================================== >> >> If you downloaded the sources from gitorious do the following the VM >> sources are not included (unlike the jenkins build download). The >> following steps explain how to generate the VM sources from a build >> image. > > Also, in this subthread with you I was trying to get your suggested > jenkins solution to work, not the "download from gitorious" one. > HOWTOBUILD says in the jenkins case I should just be able to "cd build; > cmake; make". Indeed that is wrong, I removed it, will push it this night to the main branch. thanks for trying!

Oct. 19, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] building the Mac Cog VM from Jenkins

by Craig Latta

> (RE)CREATING THE GENERATED VM SOURCES > ===================================== > > If you downloaded the sources from gitorious do the following the VM > sources are not included (unlike the jenkins build download). The > following steps explain how to generate the VM sources from a build > image. Also, in this subthread with you I was trying to get your suggested jenkins solution to work, not the "download from gitorious" one. HOWTOBUILD says in the jenkins case I should just be able to "cd build; cmake; make". -C -- Craig Latta www.netjam.org/resume +31 6 2757 7177 + 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS)

Oct. 19, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Mariano's VM-building instructions don't seem to work

by Camillo Bruni

On 2012-10-19, at 20:27, Craig Latta <craig(a)netjam.org> wrote: > >> The following steps explain how to generate the VM sources from a >> build image. > > I *did* generate the VM sources from the build image. I even said > that a few messages ago in this very thread. > > I also *did* get the "blessed" blob from git, because it was in > Mariano's instructions. > > The problem isn't just that your instructions are old. It's that > you have multiple sets of conflicting instructions. So as you can see Marianos post is quite old (>6months?), so it has clearly outdated parts. The HOWTOBUILD *IS* the place to put the build instructions as it is properly versioned along the VM sources. The problem is, that currently only few care about the VM sources, and only 1 or 2 modify the sources :/. So I would be happy to update the HOWTOBUILD according to your experience. AFAIK it is fairly complete, might miss some setup instructions for OSX/WIN. So that said, YES we desperately have to improve this situation. Our build severs do some of the work, if they work... But that does not replace properly detailed instructions... so please try restarting over with git clone --depth=0 git://gitorious.org/cogvm/blessed.git cd blessed/image && ./newImage.sh # generate the proper sources from the image here... cd ../build sh ../codegen-scripts/extract-commit-info.sh cmake . make > And yes, you do sound rude. I'm sorry for that... it's hard to see what you did and what not, your answers seemed to be random to me ;)

Oct. 19, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Smart chars behavior

by Guillermo Polito

On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 6:59 PM, Damien Pollet <damien.pollet(a)gmail.com>wrote: > On 19 October 2012 18:45, Guillermo Polito <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > "this same happens with simple quotes" > > ws contents: '' > > type: $" $" > > expected: (String with: $" with: $") > > â¦with the cursor at the end > > > ws contents: '' > > type: $" $' > > expected: (String with: $" with: $' with: $") or (String with: $" with: > $' > > with: $' with: $") ? > > current: (String with: $" with: $' with: $") > > TextMate says "'|" (| representing the insertion point). It makes > sense, in a comment there is a good chance that you mean an apostrophe > rather than a opening a literal string. > > > So, what is that you feel annoying from the smart chars?? > > Could you add your own example? :D > > TextMate has special cases when there are non-white characters to the > right of the insertion point before inserting an opening bracket, e.g. > > ws contents: '|foo' > type: $( > expected: '(foo' > > ws contents: '| foo' > type: $( > expected: '() foo' > Yes, these are cool. I'll add them to my failing tests :) > > -- > Damien Pollet > type less, do more [ | ] http://people.untyped.org/damien.pollet > >

Oct. 19, 2012