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Re: [Pharo-project] Getting started with Athens

by dimitris chloupis

Excuse my ignorance just realized you already using a Nativeboost CogVM , so please ignore my last comment. However in case you dont know it you still need to load the configuration of nativeboost so it loads all the library of nativeboost that Athens rely on. ________________________________ From: dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> To: "Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr" <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Tuesday, 27 November 2012, 22:26 Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Getting started with Athens I am not going to pretend that I am that familiar with Athens code yet, though I try to understand it slow but... Are you sure you are using a Nativeboost CogVM ? I am not even sure Athens suppose to work without it . It means you will need CogVM with Nativeboost plugin (compiled against CogVM) and the Nativeboost packages. Correct me If I am wrong here, my knowledge on these things is still bare bone basic. ________________________________ From: Vanessa PeÃ±a Araya <van.c.pena(a)gmail.com> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Sent: Tuesday, 27 November 2012, 22:19 Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Getting started with Athens Hi Sebastian and Esteban, Thanks for replying. I checked and I already have the libcairo2 installed. I actually can see Roassal working with Cairo in VW so I guess that's ok. I use a 32bits Ubuntu. But I still can't make it work :( This error in particular is because the connection with cairo? Thanks, Vanessa. On 11/27/2012 01:46 PM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > be sure to install the 32bits version > > > On Nov 27, 2012, at 5:37 PM, Sebastian Nozzi <sebnozzi(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hello Araya, >> >> you might still need to install the library for your host operating system. >> >> See here: >> >> http://www.pharocasts.com/2012/06/athens-and-native-boost-at-work.html >> >> For Debian/Ubuntu systems you would need to do: >> >> apt-get install libcairo2Â # as root in Debian >> >> Or: >> >> sudo apt-get install libcairo2 # as non-root in Ubuntu >> >> Hope this helps! >> >> Sebastian >> >> P.S. Future versions of Pharo, if I'm not mistaken, will include this >> dependency... ? >> >> >> 2012/11/27 Vanessa PeÃ±a Araya <van.c.pena(a)gmail.com>: >>> Hi, >>> >>> I'm trying to get started with Athens but I'm having the following errors: >>> >>> Pharo 1.4, loaded last version configurationOfAthens: >>> 'failed to get a symbol address: cairo_image_surface_create' >>> >>> I also tried in this in a 2.0 image and I got the same error. >>> >>> I'm trying with this VM: >>> >>> https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/view/Cog/job/NativeBoost-Cog-VM/Architectur… >>> >>> Any help, please? :) >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Vanessa. > >

Nov. 27, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Getting started with Athens

by Esteban Lorenzano

make a symlink (assuming you are working on linux/mac) where the rest of the plugins are. Esteban On Nov 27, 2012, at 9:19 PM, Vanessa PeÃ±a Araya <van.c.pena(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Sebastian and Esteban, > > Thanks for replying. I checked and I already have the libcairo2 installed. I actually can see Roassal working with Cairo in VW so I guess that's ok. I use a 32bits Ubuntu. > > But I still can't make it work :( This error in particular is because the connection with cairo? > > Thanks, > Vanessa. > > > On 11/27/2012 01:46 PM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: >> be sure to install the 32bits version >> >> >> On Nov 27, 2012, at 5:37 PM, Sebastian Nozzi <sebnozzi(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hello Araya, >>> >>> you might still need to install the library for your host operating system. >>> >>> See here: >>> >>> http://www.pharocasts.com/2012/06/athens-and-native-boost-at-work.html >>> >>> For Debian/Ubuntu systems you would need to do: >>> >>> apt-get install libcairo2 # as root in Debian >>> >>> Or: >>> >>> sudo apt-get install libcairo2 # as non-root in Ubuntu >>> >>> Hope this helps! >>> >>> Sebastian >>> >>> P.S. Future versions of Pharo, if I'm not mistaken, will include this >>> dependency... ? >>> >>> >>> 2012/11/27 Vanessa PeÃ±a Araya <van.c.pena(a)gmail.com>: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I'm trying to get started with Athens but I'm having the following errors: >>>> >>>> Pharo 1.4, loaded last version configurationOfAthens: >>>> 'failed to get a symbol address: cairo_image_surface_create' >>>> >>>> I also tried in this in a 2.0 image and I got the same error. >>>> >>>> I'm trying with this VM: >>>> >>>> https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/view/Cog/job/NativeBoost-Cog-VM/Architectur… >>>> >>>> Any help, please? :) >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Vanessa. >> >> > >

Nov. 27, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Getting started with Athens

by dimitris chloupis

I am not going to pretend that I am that familiar with Athens code yet, though I try to understand it slow but... Are you sure you are using a Nativeboost CogVM ? I am not even sure Athens suppose to work without it . It means you will need CogVM with Nativeboost plugin (compiled against CogVM) and the Nativeboost packages. Correct me If I am wrong here, my knowledge on these things is still bare bone basic. ________________________________ From: Vanessa PeÃ±a Araya <van.c.pena(a)gmail.com> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Sent: Tuesday, 27 November 2012, 22:19 Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Getting started with Athens Hi Sebastian and Esteban, Thanks for replying. I checked and I already have the libcairo2 installed. I actually can see Roassal working with Cairo in VW so I guess that's ok. I use a 32bits Ubuntu. But I still can't make it work :( This error in particular is because the connection with cairo? Thanks, Vanessa. On 11/27/2012 01:46 PM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > be sure to install the 32bits version > > > On Nov 27, 2012, at 5:37 PM, Sebastian Nozzi <sebnozzi(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hello Araya, >> >> you might still need to install the library for your host operating system. >> >> See here: >> >> http://www.pharocasts.com/2012/06/athens-and-native-boost-at-work.html >> >> For Debian/Ubuntu systems you would need to do: >> >> apt-get install libcairo2Â # as root in Debian >> >> Or: >> >> sudo apt-get install libcairo2 # as non-root in Ubuntu >> >> Hope this helps! >> >> Sebastian >> >> P.S. Future versions of Pharo, if I'm not mistaken, will include this >> dependency... ? >> >> >> 2012/11/27 Vanessa PeÃ±a Araya <van.c.pena(a)gmail.com>: >>> Hi, >>> >>> I'm trying to get started with Athens but I'm having the following errors: >>> >>> Pharo 1.4, loaded last version configurationOfAthens: >>> 'failed to get a symbol address: cairo_image_surface_create' >>> >>> I also tried in this in a 2.0 image and I got the same error. >>> >>> I'm trying with this VM: >>> >>> https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/view/Cog/job/NativeBoost-Cog-VM/Architectur… >>> >>> Any help, please? :) >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Vanessa. > >

Nov. 27, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Getting started with Athens

by Vanessa PeÃ±a Araya

Hi Sebastian and Esteban, Thanks for replying. I checked and I already have the libcairo2 installed. I actually can see Roassal working with Cairo in VW so I guess that's ok. I use a 32bits Ubuntu. But I still can't make it work :( This error in particular is because the connection with cairo? Thanks, Vanessa. On 11/27/2012 01:46 PM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > be sure to install the 32bits version > > > On Nov 27, 2012, at 5:37 PM, Sebastian Nozzi <sebnozzi(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hello Araya, >> >> you might still need to install the library for your host operating system. >> >> See here: >> >> http://www.pharocasts.com/2012/06/athens-and-native-boost-at-work.html >> >> For Debian/Ubuntu systems you would need to do: >> >> apt-get install libcairo2 # as root in Debian >> >> Or: >> >> sudo apt-get install libcairo2 # as non-root in Ubuntu >> >> Hope this helps! >> >> Sebastian >> >> P.S. Future versions of Pharo, if I'm not mistaken, will include this >> dependency... ? >> >> >> 2012/11/27 Vanessa PeÃ±a Araya <van.c.pena(a)gmail.com>: >>> Hi, >>> >>> I'm trying to get started with Athens but I'm having the following errors: >>> >>> Pharo 1.4, loaded last version configurationOfAthens: >>> 'failed to get a symbol address: cairo_image_surface_create' >>> >>> I also tried in this in a 2.0 image and I got the same error. >>> >>> I'm trying with this VM: >>> >>> https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/view/Cog/job/NativeBoost-Cog-VM/Architectur… >>> >>> Any help, please? :) >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Vanessa. > >

Nov. 27, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] just help :)

by dimitris chloupis

I can see now why you took interest in my ideas, seems we are driven by same motives. I want my project to make coding fun again and be a tool to very easily learn programming. I also want to join forces with people trying to achieve similar goals. They dont have to contribute to my code or me to theirs but at least we can make sure we dont overlap and we make our projects a part of a bigger ecosystem with the same general goals. So any code you may come up with or any idea and documentation I am immediately interested in knowing what you come up with. One area I probably wont work on, is game development. Not because I am not interested but because already the field I am working on , general graphics is big enough. But I am super interested in seeing pharo being used for game development and I am willing to integrate your project to my project so we have one unified approach that can benefit all pharo users and not trying to do the same thing in diffirent ways which for me at least is a waste of time. My goal is to avoid code replication as much as possible and unify as many projects as possible and if possible build a centralized healthy ecosystem where the user can find feature rich well tested tools with ease and good documentation. By the way I am a big fan of "invent your own games with python" book and I keep recommending it to many people wanting to learn python and pygame.Â I dont know if its a problem of Squeak vs Pharo , personally from what I have seen I dont see why the code cant work for both. My choice for pharo is because I see a lot more active development happening in pharo than I see for squeak and obviously that is a big plus. Even the biggest project for Squeak , Scratch has abandoned Squeak and smalltalk in total in favor for Flash which is really sad.I am talking of course about Scratch 2. But anyway, anything you create in the field of graphics, game development , teaching programming etc is an area that deeply interest me. I think we both are driven by the same motives to bring new blood to Smalltalk and not just us, by showing newcomers not only how fun Smalltalk is but also how easy and I think projects that are geared towards that direction are absolutely essential for Pharo if Pharo cares about being more popular than currently is. I am still buried in pharo code and documentation , trying to make sense of all this weird looking code in a language I am not familiar with but still very much motivated and excited and joining forces with other people is even more motivating and still working on an interactive tutorial Tool ;) ________________________________ From: Sebastian Nozzi <sebnozzi(a)gmail.com> To: StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> Cc: Pharo Development <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Tuesday, 27 November 2012, 20:56 Subject: [Pharo-project] just help :) > 2012/11/25 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: > just help :) This is what I would like to get involved in. Hopefully it can benefit the project. In order of personal interest: == 1) Positioning Pharo as THE language to learn programming. With a "fun" touch. Smalltalk is still an excellent language/environment to learn programming and I think: if it can be learnt while having fun, the better! My idea is to write simple game-programming tutorials (board games, puzzles, etc. like this - http://inventwithpython.com/ - but cooler). I already started working on this, that's why I bugged you guys with Morphic questions in the past. What I would like to offer is the knowledge and tools to use Pharo as a post-Scratch (http://scratch.mit.edu/) for creative projects (games, animations, stories, etc.). Conceptually similar to: http://www.greenfoot.org/home - only it would be it would be Smalltalk based ;-D. I also would love to write educational software (disclaimer: I'm not a school teacher or anything similar - although I imagine getting involved in the area). >From the spirit I know that maybe Squeak is more the place to go... And also that Pharo aims to be more enterprise/research oriented. I don't discard my code running in Squeak, but I just happen to find Pharo easier to use / develop in. == 2) Writing small (but attractive/useful) sample apps ... to be useful for people/small companies and get devs hooked (return-on-investment might be low?). Examples: a TestLink clone, a time-tracker, a corporate contact-database, a room reservation system, etc. The idea is to use these apps as "troyan horses", and get devs interested in Smalltalk/Pharo (the apps would be free and open-source, to guarantee usage/adoption). Maybe to extend / customize them for their needs. Increase mind-share (I assure you, it's needed! None of my past/current colleagues knew what Smalltalk was, some confused it with Lisp). But I'm sure this won't happen without... == 3) Writing (documenting) Pharo >From an "enterprise" point of view (how can I do X, because I need this for a real-life project asap?). I think there is a lot of work to be done here also. Documenting classes, working on external documentation. Like how to interact with OS processes/io, databases, deployment strategies, persistence strategies, how to work in a team, etc. For this I would like to collaborate in the "collaborative book". I already have a list of things that could be added/improved, and I think I would also learn a lot in the process. The only thing that worries me is me not being a native English speaker (writer). == Some work involved in these areas overlap. Ideally I would combine all three. So, these are the areas I would like to get involved in. It would be great if it could benefit the project at large :-) Best regards, Sebastian

Nov. 27, 2012

[Pharo-project] would it be possible to get the sender highlighted when we do senders of?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi I noticed that we lost the selection when doing senders of. Any chance to get that back? We will have to address that in 2.0. If somebody can enter a bug entry it would be greatâ¦ right now in the train with no internet. And I do not want to forget. Stef

Nov. 27, 2012

[Pharo-project] Combining Regular Monticello with Github/FileTree

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Hi, Before I get too frustrated trying, a quick question: is it possible to combine regular monticello with github/filetree ? I have STON both in ss3 as on github, but it seems I cannot compare my in-image ss3 version with a filetree/github repository on disk: it reports everything as changed (maybe due to meta data differences, I don't know). How do I know the difference between the ss3 version and the filetree version ? I guess I could just save the filetree version and let git decide ? But maybe, then everything will be different as well ? Sven -- Sven Van Caekenberghe http://stfx.eu Smalltalk is the Red Pill

Nov. 27, 2012

[Pharo-project] About keyboard event :(

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi guys I'm looking for the following information and I do not find it. I thought that I could ask a keyboardEvent for the character I typed in the following case: When I press shift ' I should obtain " self keyValue 39 but Character value: 39 is ' and not double quote self keyCharacter $' self modifiedCharacter $' but this is wrong modifiedCharacter self flag: #hack. "Hack me. When Ctrl is pressed, the key ascii value is not right and we have to do something ugly" ^(self controlKeyPressed and: [ (#(MacOSX Windows) includes: Smalltalk os current platformFamily) and: [ keyValue <= 26 ]]) ifTrue: [ (self keyValue + $a asciiValue - 1) asCharacter ] ifFalse: [ self keyCharacter ] Frankly the event logic is messy. I do not understand, why we cannot have ' the key that was pressed and shift and also " as an interpretation and that the system should not be most of the time using this high level operation. Then I do not understand why when I pressed shift ' I get a CMD -'>' character it looks so bogus. When I see performCmdActionsWith: aKeyboardEvent shifted: aBoolean return: return | asciiValue actions action| asciiValue := aKeyboardEvent keyValue + 1. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ hardcoded in the smalltalkEditor logic actions := aBoolean ifTrue: [self class shiftCmdActions] ifFalse: [self class cmdActions]. action := (actions at: asciiValue). action == #noop: ifTrue: [ ^ false ]. return value: ( self perform: action with: aKeyboardEvent). and this really ugly code breaking any principle of layeringâ¦. dispatchCommandOn: aKeyboardEvent return: return |asciiValue honorCommandKeys char| asciiValue := aKeyboardEvent keyValue. honorCommandKeys := self cmdKeysInText. "Special keys overwrite crtl+key combinations - at least on Windows. To resolve this conflict, assume that keys other than cursor keys aren't used together with Crtl." ((self class specialShiftCmdKeys includes: asciiValue) and: [ asciiValue < 27]) ifTrue: [ ^ self performCmdActionsWith: aKeyboardEvent shifted: aKeyboardEvent controlKeyPressed return: return]. "backspace, and escape keys (ascii 8 and 27) are command keys" ((honorCommandKeys and: [aKeyboardEvent commandKeyPressed]) or: [self class specialShiftCmdKeys includes: asciiValue]) ifTrue: [ ^ self performCmdActionsWith: aKeyboardEvent shifted: aKeyboardEvent shiftPressed return: return]. "the control key can be used to invoke shift-cmd shortcuts" (honorCommandKeys and: [aKeyboardEvent controlKeyPressed]) ifTrue: [ ^ self performCmdActionsWith: aKeyboardEvent shifted: true return: return]. ^ false Then of course shiftEnclose: aKeyboardEvent "Insert or remove bracket characters around the current selection." | char left right startIndex stopIndex oldSelection which text | char := aKeyboardEvent keyCharacter. char = $9 ifTrue: [ char := $( ]. char = $, ifTrue: [ char := $< ]. char = $[ ifTrue: [ char := ${ ]. char = $' ifTrue: [ char := $" ]. And in addition smart character use characters while textEditor methods such as enclose: â¦. require a keyboardEvent. I will start to fix that part so that we can think a bit instead of been block in a rat hole. Stef

Nov. 27, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] just help :)

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Hi Sebastion, Excellent ! Please go ahead ;-) Sven -- Sven Van Caekenberghe http://stfx.eu Smalltalk is the Red Pill On 27 Nov 2012, at 19:56, Sebastian Nozzi <sebnozzi(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> 2012/11/25 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >> just help :) > > This is what I would like to get involved in. Hopefully it can benefit > the project. > > In order of personal interest: > > == > > 1) Positioning Pharo as THE language to learn programming. With a "fun" touch. > > Smalltalk is still an excellent language/environment to learn > programming and I think: if it can be learnt while having fun, the > better! > > My idea is to write simple game-programming tutorials (board games, > puzzles, etc. like this - http://inventwithpython.com/ - but cooler). > I already started working on this, that's why I bugged you guys with > Morphic questions in the past. > > What I would like to offer is the knowledge and tools to use Pharo as > a post-Scratch (http://scratch.mit.edu/) for creative projects (games, > animations, stories, etc.). Conceptually similar to: > http://www.greenfoot.org/home - only it would be it would be Smalltalk > based ;-D. > > I also would love to write educational software (disclaimer: I'm not a > school teacher or anything similar - although I imagine getting > involved in the area). > > From the spirit I know that maybe Squeak is more the place to go... > And also that Pharo aims to be more enterprise/research oriented. I > don't discard my code running in Squeak, but I just happen to find > Pharo easier to use / develop in. > > == > > 2) Writing small (but attractive/useful) sample apps > > ... to be useful for people/small companies and get devs hooked > (return-on-investment might be low?). > > Examples: a TestLink clone, a time-tracker, a corporate > contact-database, a room reservation system, etc. > > The idea is to use these apps as "troyan horses", and get devs > interested in Smalltalk/Pharo (the apps would be free and open-source, > to guarantee usage/adoption). Maybe to extend / customize them for > their needs. Increase mind-share (I assure you, it's needed! None of > my past/current colleagues knew what Smalltalk was, some confused it > with Lisp). > > But I'm sure this won't happen without... > > == > > 3) Writing (documenting) Pharo > > From an "enterprise" point of view (how can I do X, because I need > this for a real-life project asap?). > > I think there is a lot of work to be done here also. Documenting > classes, working on external documentation. Like how to interact with > OS processes/io, databases, deployment strategies, persistence > strategies, how to work in a team, etc. > > For this I would like to collaborate in the "collaborative book". I > already have a list of things that could be added/improved, and I > think I would also learn a lot in the process. The only thing that > worries me is me not being a native English speaker (writer). > > == > > Some work involved in these areas overlap. Ideally I would combine all three. > > So, these are the areas I would like to get involved in. It would be > great if it could benefit the project at large :-) > > Best regards, > > > Sebastian >

Nov. 27, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] GSoC: ARM jitter for Squeak VM

by Eliot Miranda

On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 12:56 PM, Carla F. Griggio <carla.griggio(a)gmail.com>wrote: > Hello! > I'm copying Lars and Eliot, who worked on this project during the summer, > so maybe they can update everyone on the state of the project. > It is in progress. Lars has completed the code generator and is working on the C calling interface. There are some changes required to the inline cache machinery to accomodate the ARM's use of a link register (essentially the contents of the link register needs to be pushed on and popped from the stack at the right points so that the rest of the VM sees the same stack layout as on x86). So the system isn't ready yet, but it isn't a long way away either. Lars is actively working on it when time allows. HTH Eliot > > Cheers, > Carla. > > > On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 12:04 PM, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar(a)gmail.com>wrote: > >> On 23 November 2012 10:49, Dan Corneanu <cdan(a)savatech.ro> wrote: >> > Hi, >> > I would really like to have a CogVM for ARM. I am a rookie in this >> field but I >> > own a raspberry pi and would love to help in any way possible to move >> this >> > forward. Testing maybe ? >> >> The interpreter VM works perfectly on the Raspberry, so you can at >> least get your Smalltalk fix while folks work on Cog. >> >> frank >> >> > -- best, Eliot

Nov. 27, 2012