- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Adding Pharo to Ubuntu Software Center

by Damien Cassou

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 2:01 PM, dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > So are we interested in exposing pharo to more people , linux users ? Sure, we are interested. The most important (and difficult) thing is to create a Debian archive (.deb file). Nicolas Petton and I worked on that already but a lot of work remains to be done (e.g., making Pharo compilable by debian tools). Our work can be found on: https://github.com/DamienCassou/pharo-packaging Best -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without losing enthusiasm." Winston Churchill

Dec. 11, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo 2

by dimitris chloupis

thanks for the clarification , Pharo 2 image here I come :D ________________________________ From: Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr; dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> Sent: Tuesday, 11 December 2012, 10:58 Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo 2 On Dec 11, 2012, at 9:54 AM, dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: I was wondering if it really worths working with Pharo 2 yet, in terms of stability and new features. > > > I think soâ¦ there are some bugs left, but not many real showstoppers. First question is the link in the website the link to the latest Pharo 2 image ? > > > yes. Is Athens included in the Pharo 2 image ? > > No. NativeBoost is, but Athens not. How much production ready Pharo 2 image really is ? > > To me it looks quite good, but of course only you can decide that as you might use other parts of the system then me. Should I move to it or is it still a moving target ? > > Not at all. We are in Beta, we just allow bug fixes. What new Pharo 2 image offers ? > We should make a listâ¦ Marcus

Dec. 11, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] About (backwards) Compatibility

by dimitris chloupis

I have to say I am on of those people who love backward compatibility. I actually come from a programming language that did exactly what the quote says. It was not a fun experience. Python 3 broke compatibility with python 2. Most of the libraries did ignore python 3 for quite some time and some still do. Actually if you google for "python 3" the second search result of it is the "python wall of shame" where you will find many of python libraries still stuck to python 2. The reason is that is a lot of work to rewrite parts of library to make it compatible with python 3. And note that python 3 has been around for 5 years. And is most likely it will be another 5 till most major python libraries are finally ported to python 3. http://python3wos.appspot.com/ Usually when I see "tragic fate" , "dead" , "declined"Â etc mentioned in the same sentence with a programming language I am certain that it will mention some "big flaw" of the language and I am going to facepalm myself. In 99% of all case of "dead" languages it has nothing to do with the language itself and has everything to do with hype and lack of good marketing. I can tell you one thing, AFAIK the decision to brake compatibility with python is still a big reason why one should not use python and is considered one of the big flaw of python. I know that some people are in denial, and I agree that python has been improved but not without paying a big price as the "wall of shame" clearly shows. I can bring you another example, blenderpython, its the well known Blender python api of the well known open source 3d app. Well if you take a look at it you will find two things. a) blender 2.5 has been a rewrite which is a very good thing but that ment sacrificing many useful addons because not only the library changed but also they moved from python 2 to 3 and b) API keeps braking compatibility in almost every single version. The result is an army of addons that are left unmaintained because the author makes something but he is not able to maintain every second month because the developer decided to brake compatibility. Users ask for updates to the addons and usually developers search for another developer to maintain but most of those addons are left for dead. And that is thousands of lines of code gone to waste. Actually very few developers stick to blenderpython for this very reason. So no I have to disagree there, between choosing a better language or a useful library and code that works in long term, I choose the second. I am full on progress but I do find braking compatibility is just the easy , convinient solution that does not quite work well in practice . ________________________________ From: Fernando Olivero <fernando.olivero(a)usi.ch> To: "Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr" <pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Tuesday, 11 December 2012, 10:36 Subject: [Pharo-project] About (backwards) Compatibility Hi, i wanted to share an "old" quote which i find relevant to ourÂ community. Just replace FORTRAN's with loads of stuff we had in the bloated images in the past, Â most of themÂ usefulÂ to get were we are right now. "FORTRAN's tragic fate has been its wide acceptance, mentally chaining thousands and thousands of programmers to our past mistakes. I pray daily that more of my fellow-programmers may find the means of freeing themselves from the curse of compatibility." Dijkstra, The Humble Programmer, 1972

Dec. 11, 2012

[Pharo-project] [update 2.0] #20432

by Marcus Denker

20432 ----- Issue 6923: Missing Method in SocketStream http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6923 Issue 7112: Cleaning Manifest http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=7112 Issue 7106: waiting Delays got broken when saving image http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=7106 Diff information: http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Pharo20/Network-Kernel-MarcusDenker.77.diff http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Pharo20/Manifest-CriticBrowser-MarcusDenker.30.d… http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Pharo20/Manifest-Core-MarcusDenker.98.diff http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Pharo20/Kernel-MarcusDenker.1266.diff

Dec. 11, 2012

[Pharo-project] VMWare golden pharo consortium :)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi guys we are happy to announce that VMWare is a golden consortium member of the pharo consortium. Stef

Dec. 11, 2012

[Pharo-project] Sensus is consortium member

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi guys we want to thank Sensus the company of stefan eggermont to be a consortium member. The web site is coming. Stef

Dec. 11, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo 2

by Marcus Denker

On Dec 11, 2012, at 9:54 AM, dimitris chloupis <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > I was wondering if it really worths working with Pharo 2 yet, in terms of stability and new features. > I think soâ¦ there are some bugs left, but not many real showstoppers. > First question is the link in the website the link to the latest Pharo 2 image ? > yes. > Is Athens included in the Pharo 2 image ? > No. NativeBoost is, but Athens not. > How much production ready Pharo 2 image really is ? > To me it looks quite good, but of course only you can decide that as you might use other parts of the system then me. > Should I move to it or is it still a moving target ? > Not at all. We are in Beta, we just allow bug fixes. > What new Pharo 2 image offers ? We should make a listâ¦ Marcus

Dec. 11, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] NativeBoost and Pharo Kernel

by Marcus Denker

On Dec 11, 2012, at 9:51 AM, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > I would like to ask: should NativeBoost be part of the Pharo Kernel? I would say right now, no. > Currently there are some minor issues like that AsmJit-Extension package takes ownership of Integer>>#&, False>>#asBit and so on. > Will NativeBoost be more closely integrated with the kernel in the near future? > In the far future, native boost will provide the basis to move more things out of the VM into the image. When this happens, yes, it has to be part of the kernel. But that is far away for now. > BTW, we need to integrate http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=7062 before any update that will move methods between packages. > We should continue to regularly integrate fixesâ¦ it would help a lot if someone that is not me would sometimes look at submitted fixes. Marcus

Dec. 11, 2012

[Pharo-project] Pharo 2

by dimitris chloupis

I was wondering if it really worths working with Pharo 2 yet, in terms of stability and new features. First question is the link in the website the link to the latest Pharo 2 image ? Is Athens included in the Pharo 2 image ? How much production ready Pharo 2 image really is ? Should I move to it or is it still a moving target ? What new Pharo 2 image offers ?

Dec. 11, 2012

Re: [Pharo-project] Unable to run pharo on Ubuntu 12.10

by dimitris chloupis

Ok it seems it was just a corupted download, everything seems to work fine now. I have even tried the Nativeboost-Cog build that works too. Thanks everyone for their help and clarifications.

Dec. 11, 2012