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Re: [Pharo-project] DateAndTime bug: we should do something about it

by Eliot Miranda

On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 2:56 AM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 16 April 2013 11:32, Henrik Johansen <henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no> > wrote: > > > > On Apr 15, 2013, at 4:50 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > > > >> On 15 April 2013 16:43, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>> On 15 April 2013 16:32, Henrik Johansen <henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no> > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> On Apr 15, 2013, at 3:25 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> On 15 April 2013 12:14, Henrik Johansen < > henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Apr 13, 2013, at 12:16 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> But that's fine.. now look at > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> secondsWhenClockTicks > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> "waits for the moment when a new second begins" > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> | lastSecond | > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> lastSecond := self primSecondsClock. > >>>>>>> [ lastSecond = self primSecondsClock ] whileTrue: [ (Delay > >>>>>>> forMilliseconds: 1) wait ]. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> ^ lastSecond + 1 > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> that is complete nonsense. Sorry. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> This code relying on primSecondsClock resolution, which is..... > (drum > >>>>>>> roll..... ) > >>>>>>> 1 second.. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> then it is combined with millisecondClockValue , as you see later > to get > >>>>>>> system time with millisecond precision.. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I am not genius in math and physics.. but even i understand that if > >>>>>>> you measurement has error X > >>>>>>> you cannot get more precision than X, even if you combine it with > >>>>>>> another measurement with higher precision. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> (But i can be wrong with that.. if so, please explain why) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Because, as Levente said in code, resolution != accuracy. > >>>>>> When you measure a single sample, sure, that value has an error of > max resolution / 2. > >>>>>> But when you measure when that value _changes_, you have an error > of the underlying accuracy / 2. > >>>>>> Clock s value: 1 2 > >>>>>> resolution: |_______|_______| > >>>>>> accuracy: ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| > >>>>>> ^ > >>>>>> Here's to hoping the above ascii art(?) worked! > >>>>>> > >>>>>> So no, that method is not complete nonsense. > >>>>>> > >>>>> Okay. > >>>>> Now i rewriting the code which uses new primitive > (primUTCMicrosecondClock), > >>>>> and then we will no longer need this startup logic nor wrap around > >>>>> check & other gory details... > >>>>> just use a primitive. > >>>> > >>>> Sounds clearer, yes. > >>>> > >>>> However, be aware, at least on my VM: > >>>> [Time millisecondClockValue] bench '34,600,000 per second.' > >>>> [Time primUTCMicrosecondClock] bench '12,400,000 per second.' > >>>> > >>>> Which in my case translated to that in a Time2 class with #now > defined: > >>>> now > >>>> > >>>> | microSecondsToday | > >>>> microSecondsToday := self primUTCMicrosecondClock \\ > 86400000000. > >>>> ^ self seconds: microSecondsToday // 1000000 nanoSeconds: > microSecondsToday * 1000 > >>>> > >>>> and changing the relatively low-hanging fruit in standard Time > (removing Duration creation and other crap): > >>>> > >>>> seconds: seconds nanoSeconds: nanoCount > >>>> "Answer a Time from midnight." > >>>> > >>>> ^ self basicNew > >>>> seconds: seconds nanoSeconds: nanoCount > >>>> > >>>> To benchmarks that looked like this: > >>>> "Old code" > >>>> [Time now ] bench '7,330,000 per second.' '7,280,000 per second.' > '7,170,000 per second.' > >>>> "Using microsecondClock every call" > >>>> [Time2 now ] bench '2,280,000 per second.''2,300,000 per second.' > '2,180,000 per second.' > >>>> > >>>> Also note, Time2 lacked translation to Local time, which would be > needed for consistency with Time now. > >>>> > >>> > >>> Well, i am not started modifying Time now, (will start in couple > minutes ;) > >>> but here results of DateAndTime now > >>> before and after: > >>> > >>> before: > >>> > >>> > >>> [ DateAndTime now ] bench '316,000 per second.' > >>> > >>> after: > >>> > >>> [ DateAndTime now ] bench '414,000 per second.' > >>> > >>> > >>> with Time now, i think even if it will be "2,300,000" answers per > second, > >>> it is fairly acceptable , when accuracy of primitive is 1 microsecond, > >>> you actually don't need more than 1 million answers per second, or you > >>> will receive same answers. > >>> > >>> But aside of it, may i ask, why performance is so important/critical > >>> for those? What is use case? > >>> > >> > >> everything is good in comparison: > >> > >> [ self yourself ] bench '58,800,000 per second.' > >> > >> does nothing and just 25 times faster.. than Time now, > >> so what is the point? :) > > > > The point was raising awareness that performance differences are also > worthy of measuring when doing a reimplementation, not just code > cleanliness. > > A 3x decrease in performance is worth at least consideration as part of > a reimplementation, even when the conclusion is "it's plenty fast enough > for most uses anyways". > > > > Not to mention, "Made X Y% faster" looks better in the release notes > than "Restructured the internals of X" :) > > > RIght. > So, it is 3x slower , 1000x more accurate (milli vs micro), do not > requires startup code > do not need to account for counter wrapping and day change => much > cleaner and nicer. > + less buggy. > As to me , the choice is obvious. > and when we implement a proper 64-bit system with e.g. 61-bit SmallIntegers it will no longer be 3 times slower :) > > > Cheers, > > Henry > > > > > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. > > -- best, Eliot

April 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] do you know what is this?

by kilon

Well to be fair any language that respects itself has an ObjC bridge , and its definetly a big deal if you want to embrace iOS too. So definetly the thumbs up from me. I am no way against this. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Fwd-do-you-know-what-is-this-tp4681962p4681982.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

April 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] do you know what is this?

by Esteban Lorenzano

why do you think this is the final step? this is just the first one in a long run... and when we arrive to the goal, pharo will be both: cross platform + [your preferred system here] first citizen :) god, forgive this men of little faith... :P Esteban On Apr 16, 2013, at 7:12 PM, Benjamin <benjamin.vanryseghem.pharo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > We mainly say that each travel has to start with one step > > Ben > > On Apr 16, 2013, at 7:09 PM, kilon <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > >> And you guys then say that pharo is not macos first citizen >> >> ha >> >> ha >> >> and >> >> ha >> >> I am a macos user , I love my imac and macos, but my vote goes to cross >> platform. >> >> Still another great library that is more than welcomed, definitely cant do >> any harm ;) >> >> >> >> -- >> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Fwd-do-you-know-what-is-this-tp4681962p4681975.html >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >

April 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] do you know what is this?

by Benjamin

We mainly say that each travel has to start with one step Ben On Apr 16, 2013, at 7:09 PM, kilon <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > And you guys then say that pharo is not macos first citizen > > ha > > ha > > and > > ha > > I am a macos user , I love my imac and macos, but my vote goes to cross > platform. > > Still another great library that is more than welcomed, definitely cant do > any harm ;) > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Fwd-do-you-know-what-is-this-tp4681962p4681975.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

April 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] do you know what is this?

by kilon

And you guys then say that pharo is not macos first citizen ha ha and ha I am a macos user , I love my imac and macos, but my vote goes to cross platform. Still another great library that is more than welcomed, definitely cant do any harm ;) -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Fwd-do-you-know-what-is-this-tp4681962p4681975.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

April 16, 2013

[Pharo-project] Videos: Quicksilver & Fuel+Tanker

by Stephan Eggermont

I wondered how many views the movies would get without being announced: 0. Demo: Handling hierarchical datasets with Quicksilver https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOxKVVoCH3A Handling Objects with Fuel and Tanker https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UQ35SOsuaY rendering & uploading Custom architectural assessment of a large enterprise system Stephan

April 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] Understanding Athens

by Ben Coman

Igor Stasenko wrote: > On 16 April 2013 16:27, Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr> wrote: > >> Le 16/04/2013 16:12, Igor Stasenko a Ã©crit : >> >> >>> On 16 April 2013 15:47, kilon <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >>> >>>> Thats awesome but I cant open my pharo image anymore , I dont mind >>>> starting >>>> from a new image and reinstalling everything >>>> but I was wondering if there is a way to recover all that or am I screwed >>>> ? >>>> :) >>>> >>>> >>> You have a talent at screwing things up :) >>> But your feedback is invaluable, which helping to spot details , which >>> obvious to me but not for a newcomer. >>> >>> Yeah, concerning screwed image: in such cases i usually run it with VM >>> which does not includes NativeBoost, then it fails with error.. and >>> you can close morphs/debugger save image and can continue work with >>> Cog VM.. it is , of course not always works, because it depends how >>> badly things screwed up. :) >>> >> Igor, could you add code to start the session without gui, run a bit of >> smalltalk code to destroy the dangling surfaces and save again ? >> >> It would probably save the day a few times :) >> >> > yes, i am already thinking on it. > > The thing which i want to do is to put a session check in #drawDuring: method, > to check if surface is still valid. > And if its not, then shoot the caller :) > > If you have a better/more general idea how/where to do it, feel free to suggest. > > >> Thierry >> >> > > > An idea for more general recovery options.... Using the Pharo command-line processing, have some "recovery" commands that execute and quit before any UI processing is started. For example... * list/close open windows * list/close running processes * list/revert recent method changes cheers -ben

April 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] do you know what is this?

by Igor Stasenko

On 16 April 2013 18:02, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > meanwhile, Esteban works on ObjC bridge ;) > > > Go go go, Esteban! We no need no Cairo on Macs, while we can use Quartz directly :) -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

April 16, 2013

[Pharo-project] Fwd: do you know what is this?

by Igor Stasenko

meanwhile, Esteban works on ObjC bridge ;) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> Date: 16 April 2013 17:56 Subject: [Lsehub-staff] do you know what is this? To: RMoD private list <lsehub-staff(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> uh? do you know? this is the code: ObjCClass nbSessionChanged. pool := (ObjCClass named: #NSAutoreleasePool) alloc init. rect := ObjCNSRect fromRect: (0@0 corner: 800@600). window := (ObjCClass named: #NSWindow) alloc autorelease. window initWithContentRect: rect styleMask: 15 "NSTitledWindowMask | NSClosableWindowMask | NSMiniaturizableWindowMask | NSResizableWindowMask" backing: 2 "NSBackingStoreRetained" defer: 0 "NO". window setTitle: ((ObjCClass named: #NSString) stringWithCString: 'Hello' encoding: 1). window makeKeyAndOrderFront: ObjCObject new. "nil" graphicsPort := window graphicsContext graphicsPort. surface := AthensQuartzSurface newContext: graphicsPort extent: 200@200. paint := surface createRadialGradient: { 0->Color red . 1->Color green } center: 100@100 radius: 100. surface drawDuring: [ :canvas | surface clear. canvas pathTransform loadIdentity. canvas setPaint: paint. canvas drawShape: (0@0 corner: 200@200) ]. So... pretty simple in fact :) Esteban -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

April 16, 2013

Re: [Pharo-project] DateAndTime bug: we should do something about it

by Igor Stasenko

On 16 April 2013 17:51, Yanni Chiu <yanni(a)rogers.com> wrote: > On 16/04/13 5:56 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote: >> >> So, it is 3x slower , 1000x more accurate (milli vs micro), do not >> requires startup code >> do not need to account for counter wrapping and day change => much >> cleaner and nicer. >> + less buggy. > > > Is this a candidate for back porting to Pharo-2.0? (Eliminating the startup > code is the main concern, I think). > Most probably yes. But we will see -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

April 16, 2013