- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] MC Filetree -- missing FiletreeURL ?

by Frank Shearar

On 23 May 2013 07:01, stephane ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)free.fr> wrote: >> >> I would _love_ to be able to use Smalltalk at work. Until it can work >> properly with git, and people can use their own text editors (vim, >> emacs, sublime), and quite a few other bits and pieces, it's just a >> non-starter. > > it will happen. I'm sure :) > >> I _like_ Pharo, and I _like_ how it has energy and momentum, and a >> much nicer UI than the old Pharo 1.0 UI. I'm honestly quite jealous of >> the resources the community wields, not just because of INRIA's and >> the Consortium's money, but because there are loads of people actually >> around, who are prepared to knuckle down and do the gruntwork needed. >> Squeak is now a very small community. I'm rather proud of what we get >> done with what little we have. > > Just so that I understand. What are you trying to achieve? I want a minimal Smalltalk with decent modularity semantics. I want decent integration with the standard tools of the trade. I _don't_ want to require special unique snowflake tools to work with my code. Right now I'm breaking up the Squeak Trunk into pieces, unloading things as I go. I hope, at some stage, to end up with some fairly minimal thing that will still allow one to load the main things that Squeak's used for. Colin Putney's Environments work is the main thrust for 4.5, together with the usual cruft removal work. But I see your point about lack of vision, whether perceived or actual. That's something Squeak will have to work on. > Most of the pharo people are not payed for doing pharo. What we are building (and fighting for) is an > ecosystem in which smart guys can also find a job and it is becoming to happen. Mariano is full of work > and many others. Sean told me that he got several job offers. > > Pharo is not the end, it is the start. It is not like we would like it to be but everyday it gets closer to it. That's good to hear. I feel the same way about Squeak, although it's clearly a lot, er, *mossier* than Pharo. frank

May 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Latest vm on Ubuntu 8.04.4 LTS

by Norbert Hartl

Am 23.05.2013 um 19:23 schrieb Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > > On 23 May 2013, at 19:15, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > >> Am 23.05.2013 um 18:41 schrieb Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: >> >>> BTW, 8.04 expired just 2 weeks ago, and Pharo 2.0 was released before that ;-) >> >> The LTS support expired two weeks ago. LTS does mostly include security fixes not kernel backports. So installing your 08.04 on a modern machine might not work. And installing the newest virtual machine inside 08.04. might not work either. You should stay with old stuff :) >> >> Norbert > > I feel old ;-) > > No seriously, it is really strange how these things evolve: one day you install a production machine and then you are happy that it keeps on running fine for months and months and then years and years, and then suddenly you no longer dare to upgrade or reboot it. Especially for systems that are required to run 24/7/365. > I know this feeling so well, too. I try not to run those things for too long. We virtualized most things in OS instances. So we can move to a new hardware every couple of years and keep all old OS instances as they are. They are just copied over. >From time to time I create a modern OS instance and slowly migrate stuff from the old into the new environment. If I feel confident I switch. I could leave the machines just running. But that striked me some times already in my life. In times were you are really busy and you have a lot of balls in the air the old hardware will break. And what do you do then? Even restoring a full backup on a new machine doesn't need to go smooth. It is real pain. So it is IMHO always better to upgrade steadily when you find time instead in panicking times. Norbert

May 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Latest vm on Ubuntu 8.04.4 LTS

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 23 May 2013, at 19:15, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > Am 23.05.2013 um 18:41 schrieb Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > >> BTW, 8.04 expired just 2 weeks ago, and Pharo 2.0 was released before that ;-) > > The LTS support expired two weeks ago. LTS does mostly include security fixes not kernel backports. So installing your 08.04 on a modern machine might not work. And installing the newest virtual machine inside 08.04. might not work either. You should stay with old stuff :) > > Norbert I feel old ;-) No seriously, it is really strange how these things evolve: one day you install a production machine and then you are happy that it keeps on running fine for months and months and then years and years, and then suddenly you no longer dare to upgrade or reboot it. Especially for systems that are required to run 24/7/365. Sven

May 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Messy Configurations

by Sean P. DeNigris

Dale K. Henrichs wrote > Once Pharo2.0 and Pharo3.0 becomes part of the standard Metacello build > lineup, I should be able to keep pace with you guys as you continue to > push the boundaries of Smalltalk. Three cheers for Dale!! Thank you :) ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-dev-Messy-Configurations-tp4689182p4689482.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

May 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Latest vm on Ubuntu 8.04.4 LTS

by Norbert Hartl

Am 23.05.2013 um 18:41 schrieb Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > BTW, 8.04 expired just 2 weeks ago, and Pharo 2.0 was released before that ;-) The LTS support expired two weeks ago. LTS does mostly include security fixes not kernel backports. So installing your 08.04 on a modern machine might not work. And installing the newest virtual machine inside 08.04. might not work either. You should stay with old stuff :) Norbert

May 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Latest vm on Ubuntu 8.04.4 LTS

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 23 May 2013, at 18:41, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > It comes down to the question: what vm is really needed for 2.0 ? > If the answer is: you _need_ a pharo vm, then not supporting certain OS versions has possibly big repercussions. Well, I built the image on a newer machine with a pharo-vm, and deployed using an older CogVM that was still installed: $ ./bin/CogVM -version 3.9-7 #1 Wed Sep 26 20:32:26 CEST 2012 gcc 4.1.2 CoInterpreter VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.164 uuid: d77dee73-00f5-4d00-847b-00646b08329d Sep 26 2012 StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker-oscog-EstebanLorenzano.164 uuid: d77dee73-00f5-4d00-847b-00646b08329d Sep 26 2012 https://git.gitorious.org/cogvm/blessed.git Commit: bfc9fe2c4abcd2972c8bd9eac1c77f9baaf23e8a Date: 2012-09-25 13:34:47 +0200 By: Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> Linux pharo-build.lille.inria.fr 2.6.18-194.26.1.el5xen #1 SMP Tue Nov 9 14:13:46 EST 2010 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux plugin path: /home/t3/pharo2/bin/ [default: /home/t3/pharo2/bin/] And that seems to work fine. Thanks for the quick answers! Sven

May 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Latest vm on Ubuntu 8.04.4 LTS

by Camillo Bruni

On 2013-05-23, at 18:41, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > On 23 May 2013, at 18:25, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 2013-05-23, at 18:13, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >> >>> Guys, >>> >>> I am trying to run the latest (as in curl -L get.pharo.org | bash) vm on Ubuntu 8.04.4 LTS and it tells me >> >> yes there we have a slight interference with VM and OS versions. The best way to install the VM is to use Damien's PPA: >> https://launchpad.net/~pharo/+archive/stable >> >> which properly deals with all the different combinations of versions. > > Can I do that safely on 8.04 ? Will it work ? > I would rather install locally, installing dependencies if needed. humm looks like there is no build for 8.04 out there. You can try, apt get will inform you what it install before ;) humm damn! >>> $ ldd ./pharo-vm/pharo >>> ./pharo-vm/pharo: /lib32/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.11' not found (required by ./pharo-vm/pharo) >>> linux-gate.so.1 => (0xffffe000) >>> libm.so.6 => /lib32/libm.so.6 (0xf7769000) >>> libdl.so.2 => /lib32/libdl.so.2 (0xf7765000) >>> libpthread.so.0 => /lib32/libpthread.so.0 (0xf774c000) >>> libc.so.6 => /lib32/libc.so.6 (0xf75f8000) >>> /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0xf779c000) >>> >>> This machine was previously happy running all kinds of (older) VMs. >>> >>> Is there a way around this ? >>> >>> Is there a recent vm somewhere that does not require such a recent libc version (or whatever, I don't understand the error message, /lib32/libc.so.6 seems to be present, would that no be enough) ? >> >> As far as I remember we had also issues with a too old libc. And since the current LTS is 10.04 we decided to go with that. >> So for the default linux VM it is quite hard to satisfy all needs. > > OK, but what should I do then ? > It is no option to upgrade the machine.. > > BTW, 8.04 expired just 2 weeks ago, and Pharo 2.0 was released before that ;-) > It comes down to the question: what vm is really needed for 2.0 ? > If the answer is: you _need_ a pharo vm, then not supporting certain OS versions has possibly big repercussions. I think the only reasonable approach is what Damien did. We cannot guess all combinations of libraries and libc's that are out there. Maybe you could try an older VM? Otherwise we could try to build an older linux VM on our CI infrastructure just for you :) No, seriously, we should see if we manage to distribute an older version somehow :/

May 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Latest vm on Ubuntu 8.04.4 LTS

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 23 May 2013, at 18:25, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 2013-05-23, at 18:13, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > >> Guys, >> >> I am trying to run the latest (as in curl -L get.pharo.org | bash) vm on Ubuntu 8.04.4 LTS and it tells me > > yes there we have a slight interference with VM and OS versions. The best way to install the VM is to use Damien's PPA: > https://launchpad.net/~pharo/+archive/stable > > which properly deals with all the different combinations of versions. Can I do that safely on 8.04 ? Will it work ? I would rather install locally, installing dependencies if needed. >> $ ldd ./pharo-vm/pharo >> ./pharo-vm/pharo: /lib32/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.11' not found (required by ./pharo-vm/pharo) >> linux-gate.so.1 => (0xffffe000) >> libm.so.6 => /lib32/libm.so.6 (0xf7769000) >> libdl.so.2 => /lib32/libdl.so.2 (0xf7765000) >> libpthread.so.0 => /lib32/libpthread.so.0 (0xf774c000) >> libc.so.6 => /lib32/libc.so.6 (0xf75f8000) >> /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0xf779c000) >> >> This machine was previously happy running all kinds of (older) VMs. >> >> Is there a way around this ? >> >> Is there a recent vm somewhere that does not require such a recent libc version (or whatever, I don't understand the error message, /lib32/libc.so.6 seems to be present, would that no be enough) ? > > As far as I remember we had also issues with a too old libc. And since the current LTS is 10.04 we decided to go with that. > So for the default linux VM it is quite hard to satisfy all needs. OK, but what should I do then ? It is no option to upgrade the machine.. BTW, 8.04 expired just 2 weeks ago, and Pharo 2.0 was released before that ;-) It comes down to the question: what vm is really needed for 2.0 ? If the answer is: you _need_ a pharo vm, then not supporting certain OS versions has possibly big repercussions. Sven PS: I do understand that it is hard to support many versions.

May 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Latest vm on Ubuntu 8.04.4 LTS

by Camillo Bruni

On 2013-05-23, at 18:13, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > Guys, > > I am trying to run the latest (as in curl -L get.pharo.org | bash) vm on Ubuntu 8.04.4 LTS and it tells me yes there we have a slight interference with VM and OS versions. The best way to install the VM is to use Damien's PPA: https://launchpad.net/~pharo/+archive/stable which properly deals with all the different combinations of vrsions. > $ ldd ./pharo-vm/pharo > ./pharo-vm/pharo: /lib32/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.11' not found (required by ./pharo-vm/pharo) > linux-gate.so.1 => (0xffffe000) > libm.so.6 => /lib32/libm.so.6 (0xf7769000) > libdl.so.2 => /lib32/libdl.so.2 (0xf7765000) > libpthread.so.0 => /lib32/libpthread.so.0 (0xf774c000) > libc.so.6 => /lib32/libc.so.6 (0xf75f8000) > /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0xf779c000) > > This machine was previously happy running all kinds of (older) VMs. > > Is there a way around this ? > > Is there a recent vm somewhere that does not require such a recent libc version (or whatever, I don't understand the error message, /lib32/libc.so.6 seems to be present, would that no be enough) ? As far as I remember we had also issues with a too old libc. And since the current LTS is 10.04 we decided to go with that. So for the default linux VM it is quite hard to satisfy all needs.

May 23, 2013

Latest vm on Ubuntu 8.04.4 LTS

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Guys, I am trying to run the latest (as in curl -L get.pharo.org | bash) vm on Ubuntu 8.04.4 LTS and it tells me $ ldd ./pharo-vm/pharo ./pharo-vm/pharo: /lib32/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.11' not found (required by ./pharo-vm/pharo) linux-gate.so.1 => (0xffffe000) libm.so.6 => /lib32/libm.so.6 (0xf7769000) libdl.so.2 => /lib32/libdl.so.2 (0xf7765000) libpthread.so.0 => /lib32/libpthread.so.0 (0xf774c000) libc.so.6 => /lib32/libc.so.6 (0xf75f8000) /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0xf779c000) This machine was previously happy running all kinds of (older) VMs. Is there a way around this ? Is there a recent vm somewhere that does not require such a recent libc version (or whatever, I don't understand the error message, /lib32/libc.so.6 seems to be present, would that no be enough) ? Thx, Sven

May 23, 2013