- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Cairo vs openGL

by btc＠openinworld.com

June 12, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN]: Magritte for Morphic (alpha)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

excellent! I like such kind of fighting spirit :) Stef On Jun 12, 2013, at 4:15 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > Camillo Bruni-3 wrote >> I start to sound like a salesman for vaporware ;) but I think eventually >> we >> should replace Magritte with something more explicit directly on Slots + >> Layouts. > > +100. I have the same dream. And... I promised myself I would not write one > single more nearly-identical CRUD view by hand, so this will get us through > until then ;) > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/ANN-Magritte-for-Morphic-alpha-tp4692877p4693022.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

June 12, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Modification on CollectionsExtensions

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

but pay attention because in 2.0 you will need it. :) On Jun 12, 2013, at 4:13 PM, Guillaume Larcheveque <guillaume.larcheveque(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Ok so if everyone agree I will remove the flatCollect: method from CollectionExtensions since Sebastian made the correction in Pharo 3.0. > > > 2013/6/12 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > > On Jun 12, 2013, at 1:02 PM, Sebastian Tleye <stleye(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> ok, i understood, >> >> Discussing with Marcus we believe that it would be better to keep Collecition>>gather: and add Collection>>flatCollect: (with the same implementation) and put a comment in gather: saying that is kept for compatibility purposes. >> >> flatCollect: will be included in Pharo and will be removed from CollectionExtensions. >> > > + 1 > >> > > > > -- > Guillaume Larcheveque >

June 12, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Cairo vs openGL

by Igor Stasenko

On 12 June 2013 17:15, kilon <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > No , No and No. > > If you say to opengl coders that Cairo is for 2d and Opengl is for 3d they > will start tearing their hair out. :D > > Cairo is library for Vector Graphics , period. > > Opengl is the GOD of graphics :D > > Opengl is a library for a direct access to GPU. True many of its functions > are 3d orientated but especially with the new architecture which is a pain > to use, opengl is having as the basic component the fragment shader which is > little program that defines of the behavior of a single pixel. Fragment > shaders are written by coders with the new architecture where everything are > shaders. Shaders are just little programms that GPU can run and operate on > GPU data. Anything that opengl is doing ends in the fragment shader which > the last stage of opengl rendering. So opengl is perfect for 2d of any kind. > Its just hard and very low level to use. Hence why we need Cairo. > > Actually Opengl is by far the most popular for 2d graphics. For example you > use Pharo, Pharo uses Morphic for GUI, Morphic uses MACOS Carbon , which in > turn based on Opengl. The entire macos GUI is based on opengl, same story > for Linux GUIs too. So openg is THE MATRIX. Blender for example uses Opengl > 1.1 for its GUI which is all vector based, scalable , etc etc. Windows is > not opengl based or even DirectX , they use their own internal software api > called the GDI. > > And Igor coming to you. > > Yes I am aware of opengVG, but unless I misunderstood what I read the first > time I visited the website few months ago and it wont be the first time, its > NOT based on opengl. What I am trying to avoid here is promising you guys > that I will implement my own vector graphics library, which of course I wont > because I dont have the knowledge or the time for it. I have seen how one > can use Cairo to draw on opengl surfaces and looks like a easy enough thing > to do in the short run. So I am more in favor of quick solutions. > > From what I read on the website OpenVG is not related to Opengl , and its > hardware accelaration depends on whether the hardware itself implement > hardware acceleration for openvg which from the list in the website there > are only a handful of hardware that does so. So unless I am missing > something here I dont think its a good idea. > OpenVG is an open standard for guess what , yes! Vector Graphics. It defines the standard in terms of C API. Then implementation.. it can use anything, and , of course, can be implemented opengl. That's what i wanted to say about ShivaVG. There are other implementations of OpenVG which using CPU. Athens is vector graphics framework, and its backend (read implementation) can use opengl as well.. (see the similarity?) > From the time being my only focus is learning Opengl and continue > contributing tutorial classes to NBOpengl repository. Then start moving > Morphic to Athens , using existing cairo binding with NBOpengl. Looks to me > like the easiest choice right now. But as always I am open to suggestions > and corections. > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-dev-Cairo-vs-openGL-tp4692947p4693039.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

June 12, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Cairo vs openGL

by kilon

No , No and No. If you say to opengl coders that Cairo is for 2d and Opengl is for 3d they will start tearing their hair out. :D Cairo is library for Vector Graphics , period. Opengl is the GOD of graphics :D Opengl is a library for a direct access to GPU. True many of its functions are 3d orientated but especially with the new architecture which is a pain to use, opengl is having as the basic component the fragment shader which is little program that defines of the behavior of a single pixel. Fragment shaders are written by coders with the new architecture where everything are shaders. Shaders are just little programms that GPU can run and operate on GPU data. Anything that opengl is doing ends in the fragment shader which the last stage of opengl rendering. So opengl is perfect for 2d of any kind. Its just hard and very low level to use. Hence why we need Cairo. Actually Opengl is by far the most popular for 2d graphics. For example you use Pharo, Pharo uses Morphic for GUI, Morphic uses MACOS Carbon , which in turn based on Opengl. The entire macos GUI is based on opengl, same story for Linux GUIs too. So openg is THE MATRIX. Blender for example uses Opengl 1.1 for its GUI which is all vector based, scalable , etc etc. Windows is not opengl based or even DirectX , they use their own internal software api called the GDI. And Igor coming to you. Yes I am aware of opengVG, but unless I misunderstood what I read the first time I visited the website few months ago and it wont be the first time, its NOT based on opengl. What I am trying to avoid here is promising you guys that I will implement my own vector graphics library, which of course I wont because I dont have the knowledge or the time for it. I have seen how one can use Cairo to draw on opengl surfaces and looks like a easy enough thing to do in the short run. So I am more in favor of quick solutions. >From what I read on the website OpenVG is not related to Opengl , and its hardware accelaration depends on whether the hardware itself implement hardware acceleration for openvg which from the list in the website there are only a handful of hardware that does so. So unless I am missing something here I dont think its a good idea. >From the time being my only focus is learning Opengl and continue contributing tutorial classes to NBOpengl repository. Then start moving Morphic to Athens , using existing cairo binding with NBOpengl. Looks to me like the easiest choice right now. But as always I am open to suggestions and corections. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-dev-Cairo-vs-openGL-tp4692947p4693039.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

June 12, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Cairo vs openGL

by Igor Stasenko

Here is mine explanation: Cairo provides much higher abstractions comparing to OpenGL. In OpenGL , a basic element is triangle. There is a polygons, textures, etc, but no things like gradients, patterns etc. And no (or very little) support for text rendering. That means it is possible to implement full vector graphics engine using opengl, but not otherwise because functionality of opengl is much wider than of cairo. @ Kilon, if you interested in dragging athens on top of opengl, you can look at OpenVG one of them, is open-source and based on opengl: http://ivanleben.blogspot.fr/2007/07/shivavg-open-source-ansi-c-openvg.html this one, i think might be the best thing to learn how to implement Athens backend for opengl. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

June 12, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN]: Magritte for Morphic (alpha)

by Sean P. DeNigris

Camillo Bruni-3 wrote > I start to sound like a salesman for vaporware ;) but I think eventually > we > should replace Magritte with something more explicit directly on Slots + > Layouts. +100. I have the same dream. And... I promised myself I would not write one single more nearly-identical CRUD view by hand, so this will get us through until then ;) ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/ANN-Magritte-for-Morphic-alpha-tp4692877p4693022.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

June 12, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Modification on CollectionsExtensions

by Guillaume Larcheveque

Ok so if everyone agree I will remove the flatCollect: method from CollectionExtensions since Sebastian made the correction in Pharo 3.0. 2013/6/12 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > > On Jun 12, 2013, at 1:02 PM, Sebastian Tleye <stleye(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > ok, i understood, > > Discussing with Marcus we believe that it would be better to keep > Collecition>>gather: and add Collection>>flatCollect: (with the same > implementation) and put a comment in gather: saying that is kept for > compatibility purposes. > > flatCollect: will be included in Pharo and will be removed from > CollectionExtensions. > > > + 1 > > >> -- *Guillaume Larcheveque*

June 12, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN]: Magritte for Morphic (alpha)

by Sean P. DeNigris

Sean P. DeNigris wrote >> the official repository for Magritte is >> http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Magritte. Current stable version is >> Magritte3. Official mailing list is [hidden email] >> (https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/smallwiki) > I think the Config I had was loading from Lukas' repo. I'll investigate > further... >From http://forum.world.st/Magritte3-3-1-td4693017.html : > Magritte3 3.1 > > I committed a new Metacello config, and copied it to sqs/Meta...Repo, and > ss3...MetaRepoForPharo20 with the following changes: > * Bless 3.0 as stable (it was already declared as such by the symbolic > version) > * Create new 3.1 development version, using semantic enhancement minor > version bump, to incorporate Morphic enhancements > * Declare 3.1 as the symbolic development version > > The Morphic enhancements are: > * Implement basic working One-to-many relationship in Morphic with edit > and remove features > * Refactor Morph building > * Initial implementation of Morphic One-to-one relationships > * Use DateModel (from Spec) for Dates in Morphic ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/ANN-Magritte-for-Morphic-alpha-tp4692877p4693019.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

June 12, 2013

[update 3.0] #30196

by Marcus Denker

30196 ----- 10847 Scanner should return error tokens when scanning wrong tokens https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/10847 10876 CleanUp in Morphic https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/10876 Diff information: http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Pharo30/main/Morphic-Base-MarcusDenker.10.… http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Pharo30/main/AST-Tests-Core-MarcusDenker.3… http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Pharo30/main/AST-Core-MarcusDenker.169.diff

June 12, 2013