- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] New version of PharoSound

by kilon

Its still all your fault :D I did not imply that you have to do anything. I only asked that a link to the library is offered and maybe some general information to trigger more interest. Thank you for the link will take a look. :) StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote > good idea I will do that in the future > > http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras > > then the configurationOfPharoSound is published in > ss3.gemtalk.com/MetaRepoForPharo20 > > I looked around and that are some text in > > http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr/FreeBooks/GuzdialBookDrafts/Multimedia-ch7.… > > If somebody would start to extract and work on a simple doc it would be > great. > > > About the doc, did you realise that we are writing docs while often there > were not a single documentation > even though people got payed when developing squeak. > So we are doing our best. > > Did you realise that we write even document on things we do not know? :) > > > Stef > > > >> May I ask for a small favor ? >> >> That you guys each time you refer to a pharo library you also link its >> project page that hopefully contains also its docs. So we can all follow >> you >> easily. I know google is my friend but I do think its more convenient >> and a better motivation for people to try new libraries. >> >> Thanks :) >> >> PS: Thats what google found for me >> http://www.squeaksource.com/@_2hZJ-jfU7KYRTE3/wk_ym4n7. Does not seem to >> have any docs :( >> >> >> >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://forum.world.st/New-version-of-PharoSound-tp4702031p4702033.html >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at >> Nabble.com. >> -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/New-version-of-PharoSound-tp4702031p4702050.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Aug. 4, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] New version of PharoSound

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

>> good idea I will do that in the future >> >> http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras >> >> then the configurationOfPharoSound is published in ss3.gemtalk.com/MetaRepoForPharo20 >> >> I looked around and that are some text in >> http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr/FreeBooks/GuzdialBookDrafts/Multimedia-ch7.… >> >> If somebody would start to extract and work on a simple doc it would be great. >> >> >> About the doc, did you realise that we are writing docs while often there were not a single documentation >> even though people got payed when developing squeak. >> So we are doing our best. >> >> Did you realise that we write even document on things we do not know? :) > > Yes, StÃ©phane, most people completely underestimate how much effort documentation is, both in code as in separate nice documents. I for one, appreciate your work on that front, a lot. The book style documentation is extremely important. > > But I think what he means is something like this: > > http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~SvenVanCaekenberghe/STON > > one page as a reference, where you can get the code and read some introduction and basic documentation. > > Your work on the meta package documentation will certainly help, but it are still the developers who have to write it. 100% in sync with you :) Stef

Aug. 4, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] New version of PharoSound

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 04 Aug 2013, at 09:47, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > good idea I will do that in the future > > http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras > > then the configurationOfPharoSound is published in ss3.gemtalk.com/MetaRepoForPharo20 > > I looked around and that are some text in > http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr/FreeBooks/GuzdialBookDrafts/Multimedia-ch7.… > > If somebody would start to extract and work on a simple doc it would be great. > > > About the doc, did you realise that we are writing docs while often there were not a single documentation > even though people got payed when developing squeak. > So we are doing our best. > > Did you realise that we write even document on things we do not know? :) Yes, StÃ©phane, most people completely underestimate how much effort documentation is, both in code as in separate nice documents. I for one, appreciate your work on that front, a lot. The book style documentation is extremely important. But I think what he means is something like this: http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~SvenVanCaekenberghe/STON one page as a reference, where you can get the code and read some introduction and basic documentation. Your work on the meta package documentation will certainly help, but it are still the developers who have to write it. Sven > Stef > > > >> May I ask for a small favor ? >> >> That you guys each time you refer to a pharo library you also link its >> project page that hopefully contains also its docs. So we can all follow you >> easily. I know google is my friend but I do think its more convenient >> and a better motivation for people to try new libraries. >> >> Thanks :) >> >> PS: Thats what google found for me >> http://www.squeaksource.com/@_2hZJ-jfU7KYRTE3/wk_ym4n7. Does not seem to >> have any docs :( >> >> >> >> -- >> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/New-version-of-PharoSound-tp4702031p4702033.html >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> > >

Aug. 4, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] New version of PharoSound

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

good idea I will do that in the future http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras then the configurationOfPharoSound is published in ss3.gemtalk.com/MetaRepoForPharo20 I looked around and that are some text in http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr/FreeBooks/GuzdialBookDrafts/Multimedia-ch7.… If somebody would start to extract and work on a simple doc it would be great. About the doc, did you realise that we are writing docs while often there were not a single documentation even though people got payed when developing squeak. So we are doing our best. Did you realise that we write even document on things we do not know? :) Stef > May I ask for a small favor ? > > That you guys each time you refer to a pharo library you also link its > project page that hopefully contains also its docs. So we can all follow you > easily. I know google is my friend but I do think its more convenient > and a better motivation for people to try new libraries. > > Thanks :) > > PS: Thats what google found for me > http://www.squeaksource.com/@_2hZJ-jfU7KYRTE3/wk_ym4n7. Does not seem to > have any docs :( > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/New-version-of-PharoSound-tp4702031p4702033.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Aug. 4, 2013

DigitalSignatureAlgorithm depends on Sound

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi I discovered that UUIDGenerator and DigitalSignatureAlgorithm used in some encrypting algo are dependent of Sound. BaseSoundSystem>>:randomBitsFromSoundInput: bitCount "Answer a positive integer with the given number of random bits of 'noise' from a sound input source. Typically, one would use a microphone or line input as the sound source, although many sound cards have enough thermal noise that you get random low-order sample bits even with no microphone connected. Only the least signficant bit of the samples is used. Since not all sound cards support 16-bits of sample resolution, we use the lowest bit that changes." "(1 to: 10) collect: [:i | BaseSoundSystem new randomBitsFromSoundInput: 512]" | recorder buf mid samples bitMask randomBits bit | "collect some sound data" recorder := SoundRecorder new clearRecordedSound. recorder resumeRecording. (Delay forSeconds: 1) wait. recorder stopRecording. buf := recorder condensedSamples. "grab bitCount samples from the middle" mid := buf monoSampleCount // 2. samples := buf copyFrom: mid to: mid + bitCount - 1. "find the least significant bit that varies" bitMask := 1. [bitMask < 16r10000 and: [(samples collect: [:s | s bitAnd: bitMask]) asSet size < 2]] whileTrue: [bitMask := bitMask bitShift: 1]. bitMask = 16r10000 ifTrue: [^ self error: 'sound samples do not vary']. "pack the random bits into a positive integer" randomBits := 0. 1 to: samples size do: [:i | bit := ((samples at: i) bitAnd: bitMask) = 0 ifTrue: [0] ifFalse: [1]. randomBits := (randomBits bitShift: 1) + bit]. ^ randomBits Now I was thinking that when the sound package is not loaded we could have a random number generator. Stef

Aug. 3, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Discard option while editing code seems to be broken or strange

by Camille Teruel

Yes I have this bug times to times but no mean to reproduce it. On 3 aoÃ»t 2013, at 21:27, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > When I modify a method and click on somewhere else I get a pop up and pressing discard does not work but pops up another. > Now I'm trying to reproduce the problem to describe it clearly and I cannot anymore but I'm sure I did get this strange behavior. > > Stef

Aug. 3, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] New version of PharoSound

by kilon

May I ask for a small favor ? That you guys each time you refer to a pharo library you also link its project page that hopefully contains also its docs. So we can all follow you easily. I know google is my friend but I do think its more convenient and a better motivation for people to try new libraries. Thanks :) PS: Thats what google found for me http://www.squeaksource.com/@_2hZJ-jfU7KYRTE3/wk_ym4n7. Does not seem to have any docs :( -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/New-version-of-PharoSound-tp4702031p4702033.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Aug. 3, 2013

New version of PharoSound

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi I merged Jannik clean and I commited a new version of the configuration. Now it works on Pharo 20 and also on Pharo 30 And I will produce a new System-Sound for the kernel based on Pavel work and I will produce a new configuration. Stef

Aug. 3, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Smalltalk = strongly typed

by HernÃ¡n Morales Durand

Hi Ben, Even if you adopt a type system or definition as part of Smalltalk, it is not coherent nor intuitive with the system usage. Types are not identifiable in Smalltalk, they belong to other systems semantics (both formal and informal) and probably scientific corpus. Because of that, you are having problems to cite those concepts. And type system definitions are inherently unstable because there is no scientific consensus. Does typing correspond with common reality in Smalltalk developement? Why would you need to think in terms of type checking in an object environment? It is ok if you don't want to break contractualism in your thesis, although to me talking about type checking in Smalltalk is the same as talking about L2 cache hits ;) Cheers, HernÃ¡n El 03/08/2013 14:35, btc(a)openinworld.com escribiÃ³: > btc(a)openinworld.com wrote: >> greetings all, >> >> I'm in the final weeks of writing up my Masters dissertation and >> seeking some scholarly references to Smalltalk being "Strongly Typed." >> >> I my review of Smalltalk I was surprised to find that [1] describes >> Smalltalk as Strongly Typed, since Smalltalk is sometimes denigrated >> as being untyped / weakly typed. From reviewing discussion forums this >> now makes sense, but I can only find one of scholarly reference that >> briefly mentions this [2]. The most enlightening is [3] which defines >> Type Strength as: >> >> "A strongly typed language prevents any operation on the wrong type of >> data. In weakly typed languages there are ways to escape this >> restriction: type conversions" >> >> meaning that getting a MNU is a form of Strong Typing since you can't >> make a Smalltalk object run a method that is not its own. The problem >> appears to be that Strong Typing has been synonymous with Static >> Typing for a long time, and Static Typing strongly ties types to >> variables, except in Dynamically Typed languages, I think types can be >> considered independently from variables, in which case the definition >> of [3] has some merit, hence Smalltalk is Strongly Typed. >> >> Sounds controversial, so I'm just hoping for some peer reviewed backup >> - but only you have something easily to hand. This is just a small >> thing I can just leave out if necessary. >> >> cheers -ben >> >> [1] http://www.squeak.org/Features/ >> [2] p15, >> http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.35.7507&rep=rep1&t… >> >> [3] http://www.cs.kuleuven.ac.be/publicaties/rapporten/cw/CW415.pdf >> >> > > Thank you all for you responses. I am integrating it all into a section > of my report, which I'll paste in a bit for you to pick holes in. I few > quick responses.... > > I agree with Igor and Camille, statically-typed & strongly-typed should > not be synonyms - but as Esteban says, it is common usage - but I think > that doesn't make it right. I think this is due to statically-typed > languages tightly associating types with variables, whereas types exist > independently from variables. > Milan, To clarify, it doesn't prevent the *error*. What it does is > prevent the *operation*. Since a MNU is produced the specified > operation did not execute. Igor gives a good example of why C is weakl > typed. > > Camille, I take your point about defining "Strongly Typed" , which I > will do in my report. > > Kilon, I agree with most of you writeup, except that I think Smalltalk > has types - except the types are not associated with variables, rather > they are associated with objects. This aligns with Igor's comment "in > smalltalk, assignment is not copying value, but changing the reference". > > Enrico, I will cover Duck Typing, thanks. The implication is, if Duck > Typing applies to Smalltalk, then types *are* part of Smalltalk. > Alain, Thanks for the link. To much to respond to here. Bits should end > up in my report. I found this compelling, as it clarify my own thinking > along the same lines "Statically typed languages assign types to > variables, while dynamically typed languages assign types to values" > > Hernan, I disagree that Smalltalk has no types. But they apply to > objects rather than variables, which is where it breaks down for the > explicitly/statically typed crowd. > > Carla, I am thinking along those lines. A type groups data and valid > operations. In non-OO languages, the data and operations are separated, > so the type is associated with a variable, which defines what operations > are valid on the variable, and hence on the data within the variable. In > OO/Smalltalk, the data and operations a combined, so type is associated > with the object, which defines what operations are valid on the object, > and hence the data within the object. > > Juan, I agree with your first post that Smalltalk is strongly typed. > Discussing of multi-typed is beyond what I need to consider for my report. > > German, That paper states "Smalltalk, although an untype language" but > the goes on to indicate many times that Smalltalk has types eg "subtype > polymorphism of Smalltalk" > I think it is common to say "Smalltalk is untyped" but actually the > correct statement should be "In Smalltalk, the *variables* are untyped" > > > I'll paste something in more detail soon. > > Thanks again. All good points to round out my discussion. > > cheers -ben > > > > >

Aug. 3, 2013

Discard option while editing code seems to be broken or strange

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

When I modify a method and click on somewhere else I get a pop up and pressing discard does not work but pops up another. Now I'm trying to reproduce the problem to describe it clearly and I cannot anymore but I'm sure I did get this strange behavior. Stef

Aug. 3, 2013