- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] what is the new way to do Smalltalk at: #MyClass?

by Camille Teruel

On 26 aoÃ»t 2013, at 15:04, Igor Stasenko wrote: > > > > On 26 August 2013 14:34, Camille Teruel <camille.teruel(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On 26 aoÃ»t 2013, at 13:31, Igor Stasenko wrote: > >> the intent was to replace >> Smalltalk at: >> Smalltalk globals at: >> >> idioms with shorter one, and get rid of referencing Smalltalk global. >> The are not for solving future problems with introduction of environments. > > We want to get rid of Smalltalk globals because it currently resolve to an instance of SmalltalkImage, a class that does way too much things, including holding the currently unique environment, while a global could directly refer to it. > > Also the references to Smalltalk globals that where really wrong are already gone and were in compiler. > >> And even if you introduce them, i still think you need a way to refer to globals (they are likely to stay) > > Globals are global to their environment. We could also call them environment variable. > > Nope. In current system it is something else. It is a global variable not local to any environment. In the current system (in fact since Pharo 1.3 I think) we have that: Object subclass: #A. envA := SystemDictionary new. envA at: #Smalltalk put: 33. A environment: envA. A compile: 'st ^ Smalltalk'. A new st -----> 33 > And you will certainly have problems with old (and not so) code, if you swap the meaning (and underlying semantic) > of globals to anything else you may want. Again, that doesn't change the semantic! The problems will only appear once several environment will be introduced. Code in dev tools that try to fetch a global via ThisEnvironment (the one of tool package) instead of someClass environment (the one of a class the tool display, inspect, browse...). The very same problems would happen with #asClass, except that this time, we'll have to revisit all the senders of #asClass and company. > This is what i trying to point out. In this case, #asClass is good, because it makes sure that old semantics will be preserved, > no matter what changes we may do. It just ensure to lock the system in its current state... > It also will allow us to revisit all senders of #asClass and easily change them to something else when we will be ready for that.. > and btw it will be much easier comparing to visiting all uses of Smalltalk or all uses of ThisEnvironment. So browsing senders of #asClass, #asClassIfPresent:, #asClassIfAbsent: and #asClassIfAbsent:ifPresent: is much more easy than browsing reference to ThisEnvironment? And you would most probably never have to visit the reference to ThisEnvironment...

Aug. 26, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Need of a review

by Camillo Bruni

I'll do a pass, since I burnt my fingers already on that code right before the 2.0 release :) On 2013-08-26, at 16:12, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Could someone please review this change? > > Extract the logic that opens the .sources and .changes files > > This logic is currently in the SmalltalkImage class. The code is hard > to read and enhance. Extracting the logic to its own class will fix > these issues. > > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?11426 > > -- > Damien Cassou > http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st > > "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without > losing enthusiasm." > Winston Churchill >

Aug. 26, 2013

Need of a review

by Damien Cassou

Could someone please review this change? Extract the logic that opens the .sources and .changes files This logic is currently in the SmalltalkImage class. The code is hard to read and enhance. Extracting the logic to its own class will fix these issues. https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?11426 -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without losing enthusiasm." Winston Churchill

Aug. 26, 2013

[update 3.0] #30344

by Marcus Denker

30344 ----- 6821 Inconsistent String>>asDate behaviour https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/6821 11446 recategorize compareWith:ifLesser:ifEqual:ifGreater: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/11446 11431 #sorted: is broken for some collections https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/11431 11459 Failing test: .testLocalMethodsOfTheClassShouldNotBeRepeatedInItsTraits https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/11459 (this changes Athens, I will commit this back into the Athens repo later) Diff information: http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Pharo30/main/Tabs-MarcusDenker.29.diff http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Pharo30/main/Kernel-MarcusDenker.1575.diff http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Pharo30/main/CollectionsTests-MarcusDenker… http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Pharo30/main/Collections-Traits-MarcusDenk… http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Pharo30/main/Collections-Sequenceable-Marc… http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Pharo30/main/Athens-Cairo-MarcusDenker.51.…

Aug. 26, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] what is the new way to do Smalltalk at: #MyClass?

by Frank Shearar

On 26 August 2013 13:34, Camille Teruel <camille.teruel(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On 26 aoÃ»t 2013, at 13:31, Igor Stasenko wrote: > > the intent was to replace > Smalltalk at: > Smalltalk globals at: > > idioms with shorter one, and get rid of referencing Smalltalk global. > > The are not for solving future problems with introduction of environments. > > > We want to get rid of Smalltalk globals because it currently resolve to an > instance of SmalltalkImage, a class that does way too much things, including > holding the currently unique environment, while a global could directly > refer to it. > > Also the references to Smalltalk globals that where really wrong are already > gone and were in compiler. > > And even if you introduce them, i still think you need a way to refer to > globals (they are likely to stay) > > > Globals are global to their environment. We could also call them environment > variable. > > > Whatever we will use for binding symbols in local environment, this is > orthogonal. > > Now you proposing introduce > ThisEnvironment at: > > > which getting back where we started from. > > > No because ThisEnvironment would be an instance of Environment (basically a > refactored SystemDictionary) not of SmalltalkImage. > So who should be in charge of knowing how to handle accessible variable? > An instance of Environment with a nice api or an instance of Symbol by > herself? Squeak 4.5 already does this. Please take a look at the Environment class and see how it works, especially as far as getting it into the image in the first place. frank > Unless , in your vision ThisEnvironment handled by compiler (like > thisContext).. > > so there will be no new global, but ThisEnvironment bound at compile time. > > > anyways, it will be semantically different from what we have now, > it will lookup for symbol in local environment, instead of global one. > > > ThisEnvironment would not be different than any other global. > There is no semantic change, no magic, nothing. > That's what the compiler already does. > The compiler use the environment of the class of the method being compiled > to resolve globals. > It happens that all classes currently share the same environment, that's > something else. > > > And this is not going to happen (you cannot replace > Smalltalk globals at: with ThisEnvironment at: without overlooking all the > places where it used)... > while replacing it with #asClass is fine (because semantics stays same). > > > Also, #asClass means 'give me the class or throw error', while > Smalltalk globals at: , obviously don't do that and gives you any object > bound to given symbol, if it there. > > > Any control? > at:ifAbsent: > at:ifPresent: > at:ifAbsent:ifPresent: > are already there and if you want to ensure the global is a class you could > have: classNamed:ifAbsent:ifPresent: > > > > > > On 26 August 2013 12:31, Camille Teruel <camille.teruel(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> On 26 aoÃ»t 2013, at 10:56, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: >> >> > >> > On Aug 25, 2013, at 9:40 AM, Camille Teruel <camille.teruel(a)gmail.com> >> > wrote: >> > >> >> >> >> On 24 aoÃ»t 2013, at 19:20, Camillo Bruni wrote: >> >> >> >>> We have now: >> >>> >> >>> String >> #asClass >> >>> String >> #asClassIfAbsent: >> >>> String >> #asClassIfPresent: >> >> >> >> I don't understand why we need this new way. >> >> Is it just to avoid calling 'Smalltalk globals at: #MyClass'? >> > >> > exactly >> > >> >> Because these names are confusing, and the 'as' prefix suggests a >> >> conversion while it's an access (with indirection but still a mere access). >> >> And #asClass has no sender. >> >> If you think 'Smalltalk globals at: #MyClass' is really too long to >> >> type, lets just create a new global ThisEnvironment := Smalltalk globals. >> > >> > this was already discussed. With #asClass and relatives what you have is >> > a better abstraction jut because you are decoupled of "Smalltalk globals", >> > it is not a big win now, but it open doors to better designs with >> > environments, etc. >> > At least, that was my understanding when the issue arise at the >> > beginning. >> >> It's not a better abstraction, it's a worse one. >> Sending #asClass to a symbol will ever execute the same method that anyway >> as to rely on a global: Smalltalk. >> And this global is solved in only one environment: the one of the class >> Symbol where #asClass and co. are implemented. >> So if you want separated environments you know what kind of thing you'll >> end up writing? >> >> '#Foo asClassInEnvitonment: self class environment' >> >> or implementing: >> >> Symbol>>#asClass >> ^ self asClassInEnvironment: thisContext sender receiver class >> environment >> >> However, as soon as the compiler use the environment of the compiled >> method's class to solves the globals it contains, Smalltalk can refer to >> anything. >> So the only problem with: 'Smalltalk globals at:' is that you send a >> message #globals to the global Smalltalk to fetch the environment while we >> could just have a global ThisEnvironment pointing to itself. >> >> Writting 'ThisEnvironment at: #Foo' is much more natural. >> >> If we want separated environments, each environment just have to define a >> binding ThisEnvironment pointing to itself and everything works well. >> What I don't like with #asClass and co. is the style: you talk to a symbol >> instead of an environment. >> It's like saying: '#key valueIn: aDict' instead of: 'aDict at: #key', >> 'letter beSentBy: postman to: receiver' instead of: 'postman send: letter >> to: receiver', etc... >> >> In Smalltalk we already have self to refer to the current receiver and >> thisContext to refer to the current stack frame. If we want different >> environments, is it that weird to have a ThisEnvironment to refer to the >> current environment? >> >> > >> > Esteban >> > >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >>> On 2013-08-24, at 17:55, Fernando Olivero <fernando.olivero(a)usi.ch> >> >>> wrote: >> >>>> I prefer to evaluate >> >>>> >> >>>> Smalltalk globals classNamed: #MyClass >> >>>> >> >>>> Fernando >> >>>> >> >>>> On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 11:57 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse >> >>>> <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Is it >> >>>>> >> >>>>> asClass? >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Stef >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. > >

Aug. 26, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] what is the new way to do Smalltalk at: #MyClass?

by Camillo Bruni

https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/10583/Use-System-instead-of-Smalltalk-to-… On 2013-08-26, at 15:54, "phil(a)highoctane.be" <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: > ... and Smalltalk should be renamed into Pharo anyway. > > :-p > > Phil > > > > On Monday, August 26, 2013, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> On 26 August 2013 14:34, Camille Teruel <camille.teruel(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> On 26 aoÃ»t 2013, at 13:31, Igor Stasenko wrote: >>> >>> the intent was to replace >>> Smalltalk at: >>> Smalltalk globals at: >>> >>> idioms with shorter one, and get rid of referencing Smalltalk global. >>> >>> The are not for solving future problems with introduction of > environments. >>> >>> We want to get rid of Smalltalk globals because it currently resolve to > an instance of SmalltalkImage, a class that does way too much things, > including holding the currently unique environment, while a global could > directly refer to it. >>> Also the references to Smalltalk globals that where really wrong are > already gone and were in compiler. >>> >>> And even if you introduce them, i still think you need a way to refer to > globals (they are likely to stay) >>> >>> Globals are global to their environment. We could also call them > environment variable. >> >> Nope. In current system it is something else. It is a global variable not > local to any environment. >> And you will certainly have problems with old (and not so) code, if you > swap the meaning (and underlying semantic) >> of globals to anything else you may want. >> This is what i trying to point out. In this case, #asClass is good, > because it makes sure that old semantics will be preserved, >> no matter what changes we may do. >> It also will allow us to revisit all senders of #asClass and easily > change them to something else when we will be ready for that.. >> and btw it will be much easier comparing to visiting all uses of > Smalltalk or all uses of ThisEnvironment. >> >> >> > > -- > --- > Philippe Back > Dramatic Performance Improvements > Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 > Mail:phil@highoctane.be | Web: http://philippeback.eu > Blog: http://philippeback.be | Twitter: @philippeback > Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/philippeback/videos > > High Octane SPRL > rue cour Boisacq 101 | 1301 Bierges | Belgium > > Pharo Consortium Member - http://consortium.pharo.org/ > Featured on the Software Process and Measurement Cast - > http://spamcast.libsyn.com > Sparx Systems Enterprise Architect and Ability Engineering EADocX Value > Added Reseller

Aug. 26, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] what is the new way to do Smalltalk at: #MyClass?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Aug 26, 2013, at 3:54 PM, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > ... and Smalltalk should be renamed into Pharo anyway. > > :-p :) Camillo already wants systems. Stef

Aug. 26, 2013

Spec tabs, which one is active ?

by Erwan Douaille

Hi, I'm using TabManager and i would like to know which tab is active. I didn't found any methods for that. Any clue ? In UIPainter, i will use it to know which tab canvas i have to generate. Thanks :) -- Best regards, Douaille Erwan <douaille.erwan(a)gmail.com>

Aug. 26, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] what is the new way to do Smalltalk at: #MyClass?

by phil＠highoctane.be

... and Smalltalk should be renamed into Pharo anyway. :-p Phil On Monday, August 26, 2013, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On 26 August 2013 14:34, Camille Teruel <camille.teruel(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> On 26 aoÃ»t 2013, at 13:31, Igor Stasenko wrote: >> >> the intent was to replace >> Smalltalk at: >> Smalltalk globals at: >> >> idioms with shorter one, and get rid of referencing Smalltalk global. >> >> The are not for solving future problems with introduction of environments. >> >> We want to get rid of Smalltalk globals because it currently resolve to an instance of SmalltalkImage, a class that does way too much things, including holding the currently unique environment, while a global could directly refer to it. >> Also the references to Smalltalk globals that where really wrong are already gone and were in compiler. >> >> And even if you introduce them, i still think you need a way to refer to globals (they are likely to stay) >> >> Globals are global to their environment. We could also call them environment variable. > > Nope. In current system it is something else. It is a global variable not local to any environment. > And you will certainly have problems with old (and not so) code, if you swap the meaning (and underlying semantic) > of globals to anything else you may want. > This is what i trying to point out. In this case, #asClass is good, because it makes sure that old semantics will be preserved, > no matter what changes we may do. > It also will allow us to revisit all senders of #asClass and easily change them to something else when we will be ready for that.. > and btw it will be much easier comparing to visiting all uses of Smalltalk or all uses of ThisEnvironment. > > > -- --- Philippe Back Dramatic Performance Improvements Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail:phil@highoctane.be | Web: http://philippeback.eu Blog: http://philippeback.be | Twitter: @philippeback Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/philippeback/videos High Octane SPRL rue cour Boisacq 101 | 1301 Bierges | Belgium Pharo Consortium Member - http://consortium.pharo.org/ Featured on the Software Process and Measurement Cast - http://spamcast.libsyn.com Sparx Systems Enterprise Architect and Ability Engineering EADocX Value Added Reseller

Aug. 26, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] what is the new way to do Smalltalk at: #MyClass?

by Igor Stasenko

On 26 August 2013 14:34, Camille Teruel <camille.teruel(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On 26 aoÃ»t 2013, at 13:31, Igor Stasenko wrote: > > the intent was to replace > Smalltalk at: > Smalltalk globals at: > > idioms with shorter one, and get rid of referencing Smalltalk global. > > The are not for solving future problems with introduction of environments. > > > We want to get rid of Smalltalk globals because it currently resolve to an > instance of SmalltalkImage, a class that does way too much things, > including holding the currently unique environment, while a global could > directly refer to it. > > Also the references to Smalltalk globals that where really wrong are > already gone and were in compiler. > > And even if you introduce them, i still think you need a way to refer to > globals (they are likely to stay) > > > Globals are global to their environment. We could also call them > environment variable. > > Nope. In current system it is something else. It is a global variable not local to any environment. And you will certainly have problems with old (and not so) code, if you swap the meaning (and underlying semantic) of globals to anything else you may want. This is what i trying to point out. In this case, #asClass is good, because it makes sure that old semantics will be preserved, no matter what changes we may do. It also will allow us to revisit all senders of #asClass and easily change them to something else when we will be ready for that.. and btw it will be much easier comparing to visiting all uses of Smalltalk or all uses of ThisEnvironment.

Aug. 26, 2013