- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Use pharo users mailing list

by Norbert Hartl

Am 23.09.2013 um 08:48 schrieb kilon <thekilon(a)yahoo.co.uk>: > > Here is a radical suggestion you probably don't want to hear. > why not? > Close down Pharo users mailing list, redirect everyone to stackoverflow. > > Consider stackoverflow is THE forum for coding, I cant think of a better > place to ask questions for smalltalk and pharo , rarely questions left > unanswered there and I wont even start to discuss how cool of a website it > is. > I think there is a big difference between a discussion medium and a question-answer site. What I like about this community is the fact that most of the discussions are interesting and have potential to learn something from it. Look at some of the threads. There are often a minimum of 2 replies each making at least 4 or 5 mails of one topic. That is a form of communication that makes sense to me. I would welcome a better way of exchanging ideas than email but I didn't see one, yet. I like stackoverflow as well but it is a poor site for discussing. Discussions happen through the misuse of comments. A lot of the threads posted on pharo users list aren't suited for stackoverflow. So I wouldn't consider stackoverflow a replacement of the users list. > Oh and a "minor" bonus is a huge advertisement for pharo. > > But then take my idea with a grain of salt, I don't like mailing lists :) > Thank god for forum.world.st :D > I see. I would like to see that stackoverflow is used more often but I don't see how. The intention of my mail was that there is indeed a "using crowd" of pharo that isn't interested in the very details of the core development. So I still consider the separation of the lists good. Maybe it is only my lonely view of our world. But as long as we have the two lists I would welcome it if the "normal" stuff would happen on the users list. My point of view is that there should be first a users list. And in order not to startle newcomers the dev cracks should be moved to their own mailing list :) Norbert > > Norbert Hartl wrote >> We should use the pharo users mailing list more often. Imagine there are >> people only subscribed to the users list. They can't see a lot of >> interesting posts and the users list does not appear to be very lively. At >> least half of the posts here in the last days I would like to see on the >> users list. >> So if your post is not really about the development of pharo or is not a >> problem with pharo core (external package discussions belong IMHO to the >> users list as well) then consider to post to the users list. Everyone you >> like to reach is subscribed there, too. >> >> Norbert > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Use-pharo-users-mailing-list-tp4709698p4709702.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Sept. 23, 2013

[update 3.0] #30418

by Marcus Denker

30418 ----- 11661 Small cleanup of dead code https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/11661 11659 Add basic Morph Viewer for the Inspectors https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/11659 Diff information: http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Pharo30/main/Tools-MarcusDenker.1264.diff http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Pharo30/main/System-Installers-MarcusDenke… http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Pharo30/main/Spec-Widgets-MarcusDenker.249… http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Pharo30/main/Spec-Inspector-MarcusDenker.9… http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Pharo30/main/NECompletion-MarcusDenker.135… http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Pharo30/main/MenuRegistration-MarcusDenker… http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Pharo30/main/Manifest-CriticBrowser-Marcus…

Sept. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Use pharo users mailing list

by kilon

Here is a radical suggestion you probably don't want to hear. Close down Pharo users mailing list, redirect everyone to stackoverflow. Consider stackoverflow is THE forum for coding, I cant think of a better place to ask questions for smalltalk and pharo , rarely questions left unanswered there and I wont even start to discuss how cool of a website it is. Oh and a "minor" bonus is a huge advertisement for pharo. But then take my idea with a grain of salt, I don't like mailing lists :) Thank god for forum.world.st :D Norbert Hartl wrote > We should use the pharo users mailing list more often. Imagine there are > people only subscribed to the users list. They can't see a lot of > interesting posts and the users list does not appear to be very lively. At > least half of the posts here in the last days I would like to see on the > users list. > So if your post is not really about the development of pharo or is not a > problem with pharo core (external package discussions belong IMHO to the > users list as well) then consider to post to the users list. Everyone you > like to reach is subscribed there, too. > > Norbert -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Use-pharo-users-mailing-list-tp4709698p4709702.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Sept. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Use pharo users mailing list

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

+1 On 23 Sep 2013, at 08:17, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > We should use the pharo users mailing list more often. Imagine there are people only subscribed to the users list. They can't see a lot of interesting posts and the users list does not appear to be very lively. At least half of the posts here in the last days I would like to see on the users list. > So if your post is not really about the development of pharo or is not a problem with pharo core (external package discussions belong IMHO to the users list as well) then consider to post to the users list. Everyone you like to reach is subscribed there, too. > > Norbert > > >

Sept. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Integration Process

by Marcus Denker

On Sep 23, 2013, at 8:32 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I'm working to enhance the submit process, but in another direction. > In the mean time, all your recommendations would make our life a lot easier, yes :) > Isn't all of this orthogonal? > Esteban > > On Sep 23, 2013, at 6:21 AM, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> I spent today 10mins explaining step by step on how to regular Pharo programmers how to create a bugfix for Pharo! >> >> THIS IS BAD! >> >> There are many more motivated Pharo programmers outside RMoD, and I am sure that quite some >> of them would actually provide bug fixes. The current bug-report process has a way too steep >> learning curve. >> >> >> There are a few things we have to change here: >> >> 1. make bugs.pharo.org finally work with dots in the email message >> 2. make bugs.pharo.org automatically send a password reset request (in the worst case we do a redirect/curl on the normal fogbugz site) >> 3. make the anonymous inbox work on the smalltalkhub >> 4. reactivate the SLICE submitter in the image >> >> >> So who takes responsibility? >> >> I will take care of point 4 during the following Week. >> Plus I made an 8 minute screencast with all the details of the integration: https://vimeo.com/75183993 > >

Sept. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Integration Process

by Esteban Lorenzano

I'm working to enhance the submit process, but in another direction. In the mean time, all your recommendations would make our life a lot easier, yes :) Esteban On Sep 23, 2013, at 6:21 AM, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I spent today 10mins explaining step by step on how to regular Pharo programmers how to create a bugfix for Pharo! > > THIS IS BAD! > > There are many more motivated Pharo programmers outside RMoD, and I am sure that quite some > of them would actually provide bug fixes. The current bug-report process has a way too steep > learning curve. > > > There are a few things we have to change here: > > 1. make bugs.pharo.org finally work with dots in the email message > 2. make bugs.pharo.org automatically send a password reset request (in the worst case we do a redirect/curl on the normal fogbugz site) > 3. make the anonymous inbox work on the smalltalkhub > 4. reactivate the SLICE submitter in the image > > > So who takes responsibility? > > I will take care of point 4 during the following Week. > Plus I made an 8 minute screencast with all the details of the integration: https://vimeo.com/75183993

Sept. 23, 2013

Use pharo users mailing list

by Norbert Hartl

We should use the pharo users mailing list more often. Imagine there are people only subscribed to the users list. They can't see a lot of interesting posts and the users list does not appear to be very lively. At least half of the posts here in the last days I would like to see on the users list. So if your post is not really about the development of pharo or is not a problem with pharo core (external package discussions belong IMHO to the users list as well) then consider to post to the users list. Everyone you like to reach is subscribed there, too. Norbert

Sept. 23, 2013

Integration Process

by Camillo Bruni

I spent today 10mins explaining step by step on how to regular Pharo programmers how to create a bugfix for Pharo! THIS IS BAD! There are many more motivated Pharo programmers outside RMoD, and I am sure that quite some of them would actually provide bug fixes. The current bug-report process has a way too steep learning curve. There are a few things we have to change here: 1. make bugs.pharo.org finally work with dots in the email message 2. make bugs.pharo.org automatically send a password reset request (in the worst case we do a redirect/curl on the normal fogbugz site) 3. make the anonymous inbox work on the smalltalkhub 4. reactivate the SLICE submitter in the image So who takes responsibility? I will take care of point 4 during the following Week. Plus I made an 8 minute screencast with all the details of the integration: https://vimeo.com/75183993

Sept. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] How to test the same behavior with different data

by Jan Vrany

Hi, that's interesting idea, though I'm not, like you, quite sure that's the best design (same hold for what I proposed below :-) But: 1) in 4.0 there's no "single test result' object, whether the test pass or not is recorded merely by presence of test method's selector in one of three collections (passed/failed/errors). So you can easily track which test fail on which data from the dataset. This is fixed in upcoming 5.0 by introducing TestOutcome object, so this will be a child's play to implement. 2) tool support - there are numerous tools hanging around which are built upon assumption that there's one test per method. You may aggregate results and say the "test method" passes if and only if it passes on each data from dataset. Not sure about that. One of the essential features for me - tool-wise - is to be able to see latest test results in the class browser and be able to quickly run them (like on the screenshot). Now, the question is how to represent the fact that the test failed only on some cases. Maybe in this particular case showing aggregated result would be just fine. On 22/09/13 21:43, laurent laffont wrote: > Hi, > > in phpunit there's a @dataProvider annotation, so one method returns a > several data sets for a test method. I'm not sure that's the best design > but it's nice to have one unit test result per data set. See > http://phpunit.de/manual/current/en/writing-tests-for-phpunit.html#writing-… > > > Translating the example to Pharo that should give something like: > > TestCase subclass: #DataTest > > DataTest>>testAdd: a to: b shouldAnswer: c > <dataProvider: #provider> > self assert: c equals: a + b > > DataTest>>provider > ^ { {0. 0. 0}. > {1. 0. 1}. > {0. 1. 1}. > {1. 2. 3} } > > It may not be to difficult to implement in SUnit. What do you think > about this ? > > Laurent > > > On Sat, Sep 21, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Jan Vrany <jan.vrany(a)fit.cvut.cz > <mailto:jan.vrany@fit.cvut.cz>> wrote: > > Hi, > > I actually already thought on this as I have similar problems. > So far I just create a bunch of tests, passing the actual set of > parameters to a common test method as message arguments. > > For different framework (not SUnit, but similar spirit), I > introduced a notion of "parameter", each having a domain. When > running test, the runner computes all possible combinations of > parameter values and run the test on each such combination. I would > like to have something similar > in SUnit, but there are some issues. This is the feature I would > like to see in SUnit 6.x, but I/we have to finish 5.0 first - I > wonder if I ever find a time to do push it :-( > > > On 21/09/13 11:06, Noury Bouraqadi wrote: > > Hi, > > Last ESUG I attended the cool katas session organized by Stephan > Eggermont and Laurent Laffont. > That was a good opportunity to step back and think about my TDD > practices . > > To experiment with the style proposed by Laurent, I started > writing tests for a pong. > I ended up having groups of nearly identical tests: > -they use exactly the same objects, send the same messages, > -but they differ only by values. > > An example, is testing the motion of the ball towards different > directions or collisions with obstacles at different locations > or speeds. > > Now, I wonder what is the best way to express those similar tests? > > In a short discussion before I leave, Stephane told me about > tables of values. It seem that there is such a support in the > ruby world in the cucumber framework. Do we have anything > similar in Smalltalk world? > > BTW, the full ESUG conference was great. Thanx to local > organizers, and all people that contributed to make it a success. > > Thanx, > Noury > Ecole des Mines de Douai > http://car.mines-douai.fr/__noury <http://car.mines-douai.fr/noury> > -- > > > > > > > >

Sept. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] [OT] Pharo lighthouse wallpaper

by Sean P. DeNigris

btc wrote > free to sue Ha ha, that's what we're afraid of ;) ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/OT-Pharo-lighthouse-wallpaper-tp4709069p4709685.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Sept. 23, 2013