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Re: [Pharo-dev] [PROVENANCE INTERNET] Re: default monospaced code font

by Esteban Lorenzano

On Oct 17, 2013, at 11:35 AM, Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr> wrote: > Once the correct fonts are installed, the pdf looks very different :) > > Revised judgement: > > Source code pro is not bad for a monospaced font. > Source sans pro is impressive of density (9), and has this additional readability on DejaVu sans for the $l. > > I'll take Source Sans Pro, then. > > But Pharo is not seeing it in the dialog. Is that because I did a user specific install of the fonts (and not system wide) and Pharo is not checking the user-specific fonts? yes, that's exactly what happens :) but also pharo should contain those fonts (it should not need an installation)... currently I'm working on figure out why that does not work. Esteban > > Thierry > > Le 17/10/2013 11:11, Goubier Thierry a Ã©crit : >> I'll do like you because... >> >> I only managed to install the source code pro font so far (no default >> install in ubuntu) and Pharo doesn't see it (LibreOffice does). I'll >> look for the source sans pro download as well. >> >> (May explain the pdf issues if the fonts are not embedded in the pdf >> document). >> >> Thierry >> >> Le 17/10/2013 10:57, Igor Stasenko a Ã©crit : >>> ok i looked at .xlxslsx file >>> at least, in google preview it looks more or less close to the truth :) >>> >>> and i can say that Source Sans Pro is a winner ( to my taste ). >>> I like that for 'i' in it don't closes together as in 'it', comparing to >>> dejavu , where it does. >>> It reads very clear yet compact. >>> >>> On 17 October 2013 10:43, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com >>> <mailto:siguctua@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 17 October 2013 10:47, Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr >>> <mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Le 17/10/2013 10:29, Igor Stasenko a Ã©crit : >>> >>> hmm.. i have suspicion that it is actually adobe who can't >>> handle the >>> font properly.. >>> because in some examples for source code pro font, the >>> adjacent letters >>> jump onto each other. >>> i don't believe it is that bad (see attached)Inline images 1 >>> >>> >>> Adobe or the viewer? I used evince to view it, not acrobat >>> reader. It may point to incorrect spacing information in Source >>> Sans Pro (I have not the errors you see in Source Code Pro). >>> >>> Who is in charge of the Source Pro font? Which typographer? Oh, >>> Adobe apparently. If they can't handle it properly... >>> >>> i am far from blaming adobe, just wanted to say that in my viewer it >>> does not shows things >>> properly, because when rendered in pharo it don't have such problems. >>> >>> so i cannot have decent comparison.. >>> >>> Thierry >>> >>> >>> >>> On 17 October 2013 09:28, Goubier Thierry >>> <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr <mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr> >>> <mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr >>> <mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr>__>> wrote: >>> >>> Excellent, I like the comparison a lot! Thanks! >>> >>> My take is: >>> - Unable to like Source Code Pro 9 (and it's so wide); >>> - Source Sans Pro 9 has spacing issues (16r, the r is >>> too close) and >>> reading issues (it's the worse for the lL|i characters) >>> - Source sans Pro 10 is better than 9 (but what with >>> the 2x space?) >>> >>> Overall, I'd stay with DejaVu Sans 9 based on this >>> sample. In my >>> opinion, the best compromise density / readability. >>> >>> Thierry >>> >>> Le 16/10/2013 19:56, btc(a)openinworld.com >>> <mailto:btc@openinworld.com> >>> <mailto:btc@openinworld.com >>> <mailto:btc@openinworld.com>> a Ã©crit : >>> >>> >>> Goubier Thierry wrote: >>> >>> I'd be more impressed if the argument was >>> helping me distinguish >>> between | and l. >>> >>> >>> Yes. It is designed to do that. Some common >>> failings of >>> monospaced fonts >>> are noted [1] and dealt with. There comment section >>> is also >>> interesting. >>> >>> The attached PDFs are the result of getting the >>> urge to compare >>> a broad >>> coverage of code examples (taken from "Terse Guide >>> to Squeak") >>> against >>> three fonts: >>> * DejaVu Sans 9 point >>> * Source Code Pro [1] [2] 9 point >>> * Source Sans Pro [3] [4] 9 point & 10 point, since >>> the width of >>> 10 was >>> the same as the others at 9. >>> Also attached is the source excel file. >>> >>> cheers -ben >>> >>> [1] >>> >>> http://blogs.adobe.com/____typblography/2012/09/source-____code-pro.html >>> >>> <http://blogs.adobe.com/__typblography/2012/09/source-__code-pro.html> >>> >>> >>> <http://blogs.adobe.com/__typblography/2012/09/source-__code-pro.html >>> >>> <http://blogs.adobe.com/typblography/2012/09/source-code-pro.html>> >>> [2] >>> >>> http://sourceforge.net/____projects/sourcecodepro.adobe/____files/ >>> >>> <http://sourceforge.net/__projects/sourcecodepro.adobe/__files/> >>> >>> >>> <http://sourceforge.net/__projects/sourcecodepro.adobe/__files/ >>> <http://sourceforge.net/projects/sourcecodepro.adobe/files/>> >>> [3] >>> >>> http://blogs.adobe.com/____typblography/2012/08/source-____sans-pro.html >>> >>> <http://blogs.adobe.com/__typblography/2012/08/source-__sans-pro.html> >>> >>> >>> <http://blogs.adobe.com/__typblography/2012/08/source-__sans-pro.html >>> >>> <http://blogs.adobe.com/typblography/2012/08/source-sans-pro.html>> >>> [4] >>> >>> http://sourceforge.net/____projects/sourcesans.adobe/____postdownload?sourc… >>> >>> >>> <http://sourceforge.net/__projects/sourcesans.adobe/__postdownload?source=dlp> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> <http://sourceforge.net/__projects/sourcesans.adobe/__postdownload?source=dlp >>> >>> >>> <http://sourceforge.net/projects/sourcesans.adobe/postdownload?source=dlp>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I'l let you try, then :) >>> >>> Thierry >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Thierry Goubier >>> CEA list >>> Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el >>> EmbarquÃ©s >>> 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex >>> France >>> Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Best regards, >>> Igor Stasenko. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Thierry Goubier >>> CEA list >>> Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s >>> 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex >>> France >>> Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Best regards, >>> Igor Stasenko. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Best regards, >>> Igor Stasenko. >> > > -- > Thierry Goubier > CEA list > Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s > 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex > France > Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 >

Oct. 17, 2013

Smalltalkhub is exposing private information

by Norbert Hartl

When you look at someones page you can read commit messages of packages that belong to a private project. You can't see the project nor the package but it is listed in recent activities. I filed a bug https://code.google.com/p/smalltalk-hub/issues/detail?id=32 Norbert

Oct. 17, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] default monospaced code font

by phil＠highoctane.be

FWIW, Source Code Pro can be test driven from here: http://www.fontsquirrel.com/fonts/source-code-pro On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > hmm.. i have suspicion that it is actually adobe who can't handle the font > properly.. > because in some examples for source code pro font, the adjacent letters > jump onto each other. > i don't believe it is that bad (see attached)[image: Inline images 1] > > > On 17 October 2013 09:28, Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr> wrote: > >> Excellent, I like the comparison a lot! Thanks! >> >> My take is: >> - Unable to like Source Code Pro 9 (and it's so wide); >> - Source Sans Pro 9 has spacing issues (16r, the r is too close) and >> reading issues (it's the worse for the lL|i characters) >> - Source sans Pro 10 is better than 9 (but what with the 2x space?) >> >> Overall, I'd stay with DejaVu Sans 9 based on this sample. In my opinion, >> the best compromise density / readability. >> >> Thierry >> >> Le 16/10/2013 19:56, btc(a)openinworld.com a Ã©crit : >> >> Goubier Thierry wrote: >>> >>>> I'd be more impressed if the argument was helping me distinguish >>>> between | and l. >>>> >>> >>> Yes. It is designed to do that. Some common failings of monospaced fonts >>> are noted [1] and dealt with. There comment section is also interesting. >>> >>> The attached PDFs are the result of getting the urge to compare a broad >>> coverage of code examples (taken from "Terse Guide to Squeak") against >>> three fonts: >>> * DejaVu Sans 9 point >>> * Source Code Pro [1] [2] 9 point >>> * Source Sans Pro [3] [4] 9 point & 10 point, since the width of 10 was >>> the same as the others at 9. >>> Also attached is the source excel file. >>> >>> cheers -ben >>> >>> [1] http://blogs.adobe.com/**typblography/2012/09/source-**code-pro.html<http://blogs.adobe.com/typblography/2012/09/source-code-pro.html> >>> [2] http://sourceforge.net/**projects/sourcecodepro.adobe/**files/<http://sourceforge.net/projects/sourcecodepro.adobe/files/> >>> [3] http://blogs.adobe.com/**typblography/2012/08/source-**sans-pro.html<http://blogs.adobe.com/typblography/2012/08/source-sans-pro.html> >>> [4] >>> http://sourceforge.net/**projects/sourcesans.adobe/** >>> postdownload?source=dlp<http://sourceforge.net/projects/sourcesans.adobe/postdownload?source=dlp> >>> >>>> >>>> I'l let you try, then :) >>>> >>>> Thierry >>>> >>> >>> >> -- >> Thierry Goubier >> CEA list >> Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s >> 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex >> France >> Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 >> >> > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. >

Oct. 17, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] [PROVENANCE INTERNET] Re: default monospaced code font

by Goubier Thierry

Once the correct fonts are installed, the pdf looks very different :) Revised judgement: Source code pro is not bad for a monospaced font. Source sans pro is impressive of density (9), and has this additional readability on DejaVu sans for the $l. I'll take Source Sans Pro, then. But Pharo is not seeing it in the dialog. Is that because I did a user specific install of the fonts (and not system wide) and Pharo is not checking the user-specific fonts? Thierry Le 17/10/2013 11:11, Goubier Thierry a Ã©crit : > I'll do like you because... > > I only managed to install the source code pro font so far (no default > install in ubuntu) and Pharo doesn't see it (LibreOffice does). I'll > look for the source sans pro download as well. > > (May explain the pdf issues if the fonts are not embedded in the pdf > document). > > Thierry > > Le 17/10/2013 10:57, Igor Stasenko a Ã©crit : >> ok i looked at .xlxslsx file >> at least, in google preview it looks more or less close to the truth :) >> >> and i can say that Source Sans Pro is a winner ( to my taste ). >> I like that for 'i' in it don't closes together as in 'it', comparing to >> dejavu , where it does. >> It reads very clear yet compact. >> >> On 17 October 2013 10:43, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com >> <mailto:siguctua@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> On 17 October 2013 10:47, Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr >> <mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr>> wrote: >> >> >> >> Le 17/10/2013 10:29, Igor Stasenko a Ã©crit : >> >> hmm.. i have suspicion that it is actually adobe who can't >> handle the >> font properly.. >> because in some examples for source code pro font, the >> adjacent letters >> jump onto each other. >> i don't believe it is that bad (see attached)Inline images 1 >> >> >> Adobe or the viewer? I used evince to view it, not acrobat >> reader. It may point to incorrect spacing information in Source >> Sans Pro (I have not the errors you see in Source Code Pro). >> >> Who is in charge of the Source Pro font? Which typographer? Oh, >> Adobe apparently. If they can't handle it properly... >> >> i am far from blaming adobe, just wanted to say that in my viewer it >> does not shows things >> properly, because when rendered in pharo it don't have such problems. >> >> so i cannot have decent comparison.. >> >> Thierry >> >> >> >> On 17 October 2013 09:28, Goubier Thierry >> <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr <mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr> >> <mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr >> <mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr>__>> wrote: >> >> Excellent, I like the comparison a lot! Thanks! >> >> My take is: >> - Unable to like Source Code Pro 9 (and it's so wide); >> - Source Sans Pro 9 has spacing issues (16r, the r is >> too close) and >> reading issues (it's the worse for the lL|i characters) >> - Source sans Pro 10 is better than 9 (but what with >> the 2x space?) >> >> Overall, I'd stay with DejaVu Sans 9 based on this >> sample. In my >> opinion, the best compromise density / readability. >> >> Thierry >> >> Le 16/10/2013 19:56, btc(a)openinworld.com >> <mailto:btc@openinworld.com> >> <mailto:btc@openinworld.com >> <mailto:btc@openinworld.com>> a Ã©crit : >> >> >> Goubier Thierry wrote: >> >> I'd be more impressed if the argument was >> helping me distinguish >> between | and l. >> >> >> Yes. It is designed to do that. Some common >> failings of >> monospaced fonts >> are noted [1] and dealt with. There comment section >> is also >> interesting. >> >> The attached PDFs are the result of getting the >> urge to compare >> a broad >> coverage of code examples (taken from "Terse Guide >> to Squeak") >> against >> three fonts: >> * DejaVu Sans 9 point >> * Source Code Pro [1] [2] 9 point >> * Source Sans Pro [3] [4] 9 point & 10 point, since >> the width of >> 10 was >> the same as the others at 9. >> Also attached is the source excel file. >> >> cheers -ben >> >> [1] >> >> http://blogs.adobe.com/____typblography/2012/09/source-____code-pro.html >> >> <http://blogs.adobe.com/__typblography/2012/09/source-__code-pro.html> >> >> >> <http://blogs.adobe.com/__typblography/2012/09/source-__code-pro.html >> >> <http://blogs.adobe.com/typblography/2012/09/source-code-pro.html>> >> [2] >> >> http://sourceforge.net/____projects/sourcecodepro.adobe/____files/ >> >> <http://sourceforge.net/__projects/sourcecodepro.adobe/__files/> >> >> >> <http://sourceforge.net/__projects/sourcecodepro.adobe/__files/ >> <http://sourceforge.net/projects/sourcecodepro.adobe/files/>> >> [3] >> >> http://blogs.adobe.com/____typblography/2012/08/source-____sans-pro.html >> >> <http://blogs.adobe.com/__typblography/2012/08/source-__sans-pro.html> >> >> >> <http://blogs.adobe.com/__typblography/2012/08/source-__sans-pro.html >> >> <http://blogs.adobe.com/typblography/2012/08/source-sans-pro.html>> >> [4] >> >> http://sourceforge.net/____projects/sourcesans.adobe/____postdownload?sourc… >> >> >> <http://sourceforge.net/__projects/sourcesans.adobe/__postdownload?source=dlp> >> >> >> >> >> <http://sourceforge.net/__projects/sourcesans.adobe/__postdownload?source=dlp >> >> >> <http://sourceforge.net/projects/sourcesans.adobe/postdownload?source=dlp>> >> >> >> >> I'l let you try, then :) >> >> Thierry >> >> >> >> -- >> Thierry Goubier >> CEA list >> Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el >> EmbarquÃ©s >> 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex >> France >> Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Igor Stasenko. >> >> >> -- >> Thierry Goubier >> CEA list >> Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s >> 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex >> France >> Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Igor Stasenko. >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Igor Stasenko. > -- Thierry Goubier CEA list Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex France Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95

Oct. 17, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] default monospaced code font

by Goubier Thierry

I'm unable to double check, I now have the Source Code and Source Sans fonts on my machine :) And the pdfs look very nice, indeed. Thierry Le 17/10/2013 11:16, btc(a)openinworld.com a Ã©crit : > Goubier Thierry wrote: >> I'll do like you because... >> >> I only managed to install the source code pro font so far (no default >> install in ubuntu) and Pharo doesn't see it (LibreOffice does). I'll >> look for the source sans pro download as well. >> >> (May explain the pdf issues if the fonts are not embedded in the pdf >> document). > Good point. So I've made it PDF/A to embed fonts. Try attached file. > cheers -ben >> >> Thierry >> >> Le 17/10/2013 10:57, Igor Stasenko a Ã©crit : >>> ok i looked at .xlxslsx file >>> at least, in google preview it looks more or less close to the truth :) >>> >>> and i can say that Source Sans Pro is a winner ( to my taste ). >>> I like that for 'i' in it don't closes together as in 'it', comparing to >>> dejavu , where it does. >>> It reads very clear yet compact. >>> >>> On 17 October 2013 10:43, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com >>> <mailto:siguctua@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 17 October 2013 10:47, Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr >>> <mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Le 17/10/2013 10:29, Igor Stasenko a Ã©crit : >>> >>> hmm.. i have suspicion that it is actually adobe who can't >>> handle the >>> font properly.. >>> because in some examples for source code pro font, the >>> adjacent letters >>> jump onto each other. >>> i don't believe it is that bad (see attached)Inline images 1 >>> >>> >>> Adobe or the viewer? I used evince to view it, not acrobat >>> reader. It may point to incorrect spacing information in Source >>> Sans Pro (I have not the errors you see in Source Code Pro). >>> >>> Who is in charge of the Source Pro font? Which typographer? Oh, >>> Adobe apparently. If they can't handle it properly... >>> >>> i am far from blaming adobe, just wanted to say that in my viewer it >>> does not shows things >>> properly, because when rendered in pharo it don't have such >>> problems. >>> >>> so i cannot have decent comparison.. >>> >>> Thierry >>> >>> >>> >>> On 17 October 2013 09:28, Goubier Thierry >>> <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr <mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr> >>> <mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr >>> <mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr>__>> wrote: >>> >>> Excellent, I like the comparison a lot! Thanks! >>> >>> My take is: >>> - Unable to like Source Code Pro 9 (and it's so wide); >>> - Source Sans Pro 9 has spacing issues (16r, the r is >>> too close) and >>> reading issues (it's the worse for the lL|i characters) >>> - Source sans Pro 10 is better than 9 (but what with >>> the 2x space?) >>> >>> Overall, I'd stay with DejaVu Sans 9 based on this >>> sample. In my >>> opinion, the best compromise density / readability. >>> >>> Thierry >>> >>> Le 16/10/2013 19:56, btc(a)openinworld.com >>> <mailto:btc@openinworld.com> >>> <mailto:btc@openinworld.com >>> <mailto:btc@openinworld.com>> a Ã©crit : >>> >>> >>> Goubier Thierry wrote: >>> >>> I'd be more impressed if the argument was >>> helping me distinguish >>> between | and l. >>> >>> >>> Yes. It is designed to do that. Some common >>> failings of >>> monospaced fonts >>> are noted [1] and dealt with. There comment section >>> is also >>> interesting. >>> >>> The attached PDFs are the result of getting the >>> urge to compare >>> a broad >>> coverage of code examples (taken from "Terse Guide >>> to Squeak") >>> against >>> three fonts: >>> * DejaVu Sans 9 point >>> * Source Code Pro [1] [2] 9 point >>> * Source Sans Pro [3] [4] 9 point & 10 point, since >>> the width of >>> 10 was >>> the same as the others at 9. >>> Also attached is the source excel file. >>> >>> cheers -ben >>> >>> [1] >>> http://blogs.adobe.com/____typblography/2012/09/source-____code-pro.html >>> <http://blogs.adobe.com/__typblography/2012/09/source-__code-pro.html> >>> >>> <http://blogs.adobe.com/__typblography/2012/09/source-__code-pro.html >>> <http://blogs.adobe.com/typblography/2012/09/source-code-pro.html>> >>> [2] >>> http://sourceforge.net/____projects/sourcecodepro.adobe/____files/ >>> <http://sourceforge.net/__projects/sourcecodepro.adobe/__files/> >>> >>> <http://sourceforge.net/__projects/sourcecodepro.adobe/__files/ >>> <http://sourceforge.net/projects/sourcecodepro.adobe/files/>> >>> [3] >>> http://blogs.adobe.com/____typblography/2012/08/source-____sans-pro.html >>> <http://blogs.adobe.com/__typblography/2012/08/source-__sans-pro.html> >>> >>> <http://blogs.adobe.com/__typblography/2012/08/source-__sans-pro.html >>> <http://blogs.adobe.com/typblography/2012/08/source-sans-pro.html>> >>> [4] >>> http://sourceforge.net/____projects/sourcesans.adobe/____postdownload?sourc… >>> >>> <http://sourceforge.net/__projects/sourcesans.adobe/__postdownload?source=dlp> >>> >>> >>> >>> <http://sourceforge.net/__projects/sourcesans.adobe/__postdownload?source=dlp >>> >>> <http://sourceforge.net/projects/sourcesans.adobe/postdownload?source=dlp>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I'l let you try, then :) >>> >>> Thierry >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Thierry Goubier >>> CEA list >>> Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el >>> EmbarquÃ©s >>> 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex >>> France >>> Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Best regards, >>> Igor Stasenko. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Thierry Goubier >>> CEA list >>> Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s >>> 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex >>> France >>> Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Best regards, >>> Igor Stasenko. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Best regards, >>> Igor Stasenko. >> > -- Thierry Goubier CEA list Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex France Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95

Oct. 17, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] default monospaced code font

by btc＠openinworld.com

Goubier Thierry wrote: > I'll do like you because... > > I only managed to install the source code pro font so far (no default > install in ubuntu) and Pharo doesn't see it (LibreOffice does). I'll > look for the source sans pro download as well. > > (May explain the pdf issues if the fonts are not embedded in the pdf > document). Good point. So I've made it PDF/A to embed fonts. Try attached file. cheers -ben > > Thierry > > Le 17/10/2013 10:57, Igor Stasenko a Ã©crit : >> ok i looked at .xlxslsx file >> at least, in google preview it looks more or less close to the truth :) >> >> and i can say that Source Sans Pro is a winner ( to my taste ). >> I like that for 'i' in it don't closes together as in 'it', comparing to >> dejavu , where it does. >> It reads very clear yet compact. >> >> On 17 October 2013 10:43, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com >> <mailto:siguctua@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> On 17 October 2013 10:47, Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr >> <mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr>> wrote: >> >> >> >> Le 17/10/2013 10:29, Igor Stasenko a Ã©crit : >> >> hmm.. i have suspicion that it is actually adobe who can't >> handle the >> font properly.. >> because in some examples for source code pro font, the >> adjacent letters >> jump onto each other. >> i don't believe it is that bad (see attached)Inline images 1 >> >> >> Adobe or the viewer? I used evince to view it, not acrobat >> reader. It may point to incorrect spacing information in Source >> Sans Pro (I have not the errors you see in Source Code Pro). >> >> Who is in charge of the Source Pro font? Which typographer? Oh, >> Adobe apparently. If they can't handle it properly... >> >> i am far from blaming adobe, just wanted to say that in my viewer it >> does not shows things >> properly, because when rendered in pharo it don't have such >> problems. >> >> so i cannot have decent comparison.. >> >> Thierry >> >> >> >> On 17 October 2013 09:28, Goubier Thierry >> <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr <mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr> >> <mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr >> <mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr>__>> wrote: >> >> Excellent, I like the comparison a lot! Thanks! >> >> My take is: >> - Unable to like Source Code Pro 9 (and it's so wide); >> - Source Sans Pro 9 has spacing issues (16r, the r is >> too close) and >> reading issues (it's the worse for the lL|i characters) >> - Source sans Pro 10 is better than 9 (but what with >> the 2x space?) >> >> Overall, I'd stay with DejaVu Sans 9 based on this >> sample. In my >> opinion, the best compromise density / readability. >> >> Thierry >> >> Le 16/10/2013 19:56, btc(a)openinworld.com >> <mailto:btc@openinworld.com> >> <mailto:btc@openinworld.com >> <mailto:btc@openinworld.com>> a Ã©crit : >> >> >> Goubier Thierry wrote: >> >> I'd be more impressed if the argument was >> helping me distinguish >> between | and l. >> >> >> Yes. It is designed to do that. Some common >> failings of >> monospaced fonts >> are noted [1] and dealt with. There comment section >> is also >> interesting. >> >> The attached PDFs are the result of getting the >> urge to compare >> a broad >> coverage of code examples (taken from "Terse Guide >> to Squeak") >> against >> three fonts: >> * DejaVu Sans 9 point >> * Source Code Pro [1] [2] 9 point >> * Source Sans Pro [3] [4] 9 point & 10 point, since >> the width of >> 10 was >> the same as the others at 9. >> Also attached is the source excel file. >> >> cheers -ben >> >> [1] >> >> http://blogs.adobe.com/____typblography/2012/09/source-____code-pro.html >> >> <http://blogs.adobe.com/__typblography/2012/09/source-__code-pro.html> >> >> >> <http://blogs.adobe.com/__typblography/2012/09/source-__code-pro.html >> >> <http://blogs.adobe.com/typblography/2012/09/source-code-pro.html>> >> [2] >> >> http://sourceforge.net/____projects/sourcecodepro.adobe/____files/ >> >> <http://sourceforge.net/__projects/sourcecodepro.adobe/__files/> >> >> >> <http://sourceforge.net/__projects/sourcecodepro.adobe/__files/ >> >> <http://sourceforge.net/projects/sourcecodepro.adobe/files/>> >> [3] >> >> http://blogs.adobe.com/____typblography/2012/08/source-____sans-pro.html >> >> <http://blogs.adobe.com/__typblography/2012/08/source-__sans-pro.html> >> >> >> <http://blogs.adobe.com/__typblography/2012/08/source-__sans-pro.html >> >> <http://blogs.adobe.com/typblography/2012/08/source-sans-pro.html>> >> [4] >> >> http://sourceforge.net/____projects/sourcesans.adobe/____postdownload?sourc… >> >> >> <http://sourceforge.net/__projects/sourcesans.adobe/__postdownload?source=dlp> >> >> >> >> >> <http://sourceforge.net/__projects/sourcesans.adobe/__postdownload?source=dlp >> >> >> <http://sourceforge.net/projects/sourcesans.adobe/postdownload?source=dlp>> >> >> >> >> I'l let you try, then :) >> >> Thierry >> >> >> >> -- >> Thierry Goubier >> CEA list >> Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el >> EmbarquÃ©s >> 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex >> France >> Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Igor Stasenko. >> >> >> -- >> Thierry Goubier >> CEA list >> Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s >> 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex >> France >> Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Igor Stasenko. >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Igor Stasenko. >

Oct. 17, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] default monospaced code font

by Goubier Thierry

I'll do like you because... I only managed to install the source code pro font so far (no default install in ubuntu) and Pharo doesn't see it (LibreOffice does). I'll look for the source sans pro download as well. (May explain the pdf issues if the fonts are not embedded in the pdf document). Thierry Le 17/10/2013 10:57, Igor Stasenko a Ã©crit : > ok i looked at .xlxslsx file > at least, in google preview it looks more or less close to the truth :) > > and i can say that Source Sans Pro is a winner ( to my taste ). > I like that for 'i' in it don't closes together as in 'it', comparing to > dejavu , where it does. > It reads very clear yet compact. > > On 17 October 2013 10:43, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com > <mailto:siguctua@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > On 17 October 2013 10:47, Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr > <mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr>> wrote: > > > > Le 17/10/2013 10:29, Igor Stasenko a Ã©crit : > > hmm.. i have suspicion that it is actually adobe who can't > handle the > font properly.. > because in some examples for source code pro font, the > adjacent letters > jump onto each other. > i don't believe it is that bad (see attached)Inline images 1 > > > Adobe or the viewer? I used evince to view it, not acrobat > reader. It may point to incorrect spacing information in Source > Sans Pro (I have not the errors you see in Source Code Pro). > > Who is in charge of the Source Pro font? Which typographer? Oh, > Adobe apparently. If they can't handle it properly... > > i am far from blaming adobe, just wanted to say that in my viewer it > does not shows things > properly, because when rendered in pharo it don't have such problems. > > so i cannot have decent comparison.. > > Thierry > > > > On 17 October 2013 09:28, Goubier Thierry > <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr <mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr> > <mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr > <mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr>__>> wrote: > > Excellent, I like the comparison a lot! Thanks! > > My take is: > - Unable to like Source Code Pro 9 (and it's so wide); > - Source Sans Pro 9 has spacing issues (16r, the r is > too close) and > reading issues (it's the worse for the lL|i characters) > - Source sans Pro 10 is better than 9 (but what with > the 2x space?) > > Overall, I'd stay with DejaVu Sans 9 based on this > sample. In my > opinion, the best compromise density / readability. > > Thierry > > Le 16/10/2013 19:56, btc(a)openinworld.com > <mailto:btc@openinworld.com> > <mailto:btc@openinworld.com > <mailto:btc@openinworld.com>> a Ã©crit : > > > Goubier Thierry wrote: > > I'd be more impressed if the argument was > helping me distinguish > between | and l. > > > Yes. It is designed to do that. Some common failings of > monospaced fonts > are noted [1] and dealt with. There comment section > is also > interesting. > > The attached PDFs are the result of getting the > urge to compare > a broad > coverage of code examples (taken from "Terse Guide > to Squeak") > against > three fonts: > * DejaVu Sans 9 point > * Source Code Pro [1] [2] 9 point > * Source Sans Pro [3] [4] 9 point & 10 point, since > the width of > 10 was > the same as the others at 9. > Also attached is the source excel file. > > cheers -ben > > [1] > http://blogs.adobe.com/____typblography/2012/09/source-____code-pro.html > <http://blogs.adobe.com/__typblography/2012/09/source-__code-pro.html> > > <http://blogs.adobe.com/__typblography/2012/09/source-__code-pro.html > <http://blogs.adobe.com/typblography/2012/09/source-code-pro.html>> > [2] > http://sourceforge.net/____projects/sourcecodepro.adobe/____files/ > <http://sourceforge.net/__projects/sourcecodepro.adobe/__files/> > > <http://sourceforge.net/__projects/sourcecodepro.adobe/__files/ > <http://sourceforge.net/projects/sourcecodepro.adobe/files/>> > [3] > http://blogs.adobe.com/____typblography/2012/08/source-____sans-pro.html > <http://blogs.adobe.com/__typblography/2012/08/source-__sans-pro.html> > > <http://blogs.adobe.com/__typblography/2012/08/source-__sans-pro.html > <http://blogs.adobe.com/typblography/2012/08/source-sans-pro.html>> > [4] > http://sourceforge.net/____projects/sourcesans.adobe/____postdownload?sourc… > <http://sourceforge.net/__projects/sourcesans.adobe/__postdownload?source=dlp> > > > <http://sourceforge.net/__projects/sourcesans.adobe/__postdownload?source=dlp > <http://sourceforge.net/projects/sourcesans.adobe/postdownload?source=dlp>> > > > I'l let you try, then :) > > Thierry > > > > -- > Thierry Goubier > CEA list > Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el > EmbarquÃ©s > 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex > France > Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 > > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. > > > -- > Thierry Goubier > CEA list > Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s > 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex > France > Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 > > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. > > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. -- Thierry Goubier CEA list Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex France Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95

Oct. 17, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] default monospaced code font

by Igor Stasenko

ok i looked at .xlxslsx file at least, in google preview it looks more or less close to the truth :) and i can say that Source Sans Pro is a winner ( to my taste ). I like that for 'i' in it don't closes together as in 'it', comparing to dejavu , where it does. It reads very clear yet compact. On 17 October 2013 10:43, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On 17 October 2013 10:47, Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr> wrote: > >> >> >> Le 17/10/2013 10:29, Igor Stasenko a Ã©crit : >> >>> hmm.. i have suspicion that it is actually adobe who can't handle the >>> font properly.. >>> because in some examples for source code pro font, the adjacent letters >>> jump onto each other. >>> i don't believe it is that bad (see attached)Inline images 1 >>> >> >> Adobe or the viewer? I used evince to view it, not acrobat reader. It may >> point to incorrect spacing information in Source Sans Pro (I have not the >> errors you see in Source Code Pro). >> >> Who is in charge of the Source Pro font? Which typographer? Oh, Adobe >> apparently. If they can't handle it properly... >> >> > i am far from blaming adobe, just wanted to say that in my viewer it does > not shows things > properly, because when rendered in pharo it don't have such problems. > > so i cannot have decent comparison.. > > >> Thierry >> >> >> >>> On 17 October 2013 09:28, Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr >>> <mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr**>> wrote: >>> >>> Excellent, I like the comparison a lot! Thanks! >>> >>> My take is: >>> - Unable to like Source Code Pro 9 (and it's so wide); >>> - Source Sans Pro 9 has spacing issues (16r, the r is too close) and >>> reading issues (it's the worse for the lL|i characters) >>> - Source sans Pro 10 is better than 9 (but what with the 2x space?) >>> >>> Overall, I'd stay with DejaVu Sans 9 based on this sample. In my >>> opinion, the best compromise density / readability. >>> >>> Thierry >>> >>> Le 16/10/2013 19:56, btc(a)openinworld.com >>> <mailto:btc@openinworld.com> a Ã©crit : >>> >>> >>> Goubier Thierry wrote: >>> >>> I'd be more impressed if the argument was helping me >>> distinguish >>> between | and l. >>> >>> >>> Yes. It is designed to do that. Some common failings of >>> monospaced fonts >>> are noted [1] and dealt with. There comment section is also >>> interesting. >>> >>> The attached PDFs are the result of getting the urge to compare >>> a broad >>> coverage of code examples (taken from "Terse Guide to Squeak") >>> against >>> three fonts: >>> * DejaVu Sans 9 point >>> * Source Code Pro [1] [2] 9 point >>> * Source Sans Pro [3] [4] 9 point & 10 point, since the width of >>> 10 was >>> the same as the others at 9. >>> Also attached is the source excel file. >>> >>> cheers -ben >>> >>> [1] >>> http://blogs.adobe.com/__**typblography/2012/09/source-__** >>> code-pro.html<http://blogs.adobe.com/__typblography/2012/09/source-__code-pro.html> >>> <http://blogs.adobe.com/**typblography/2012/09/source-** >>> code-pro.html<http://blogs.adobe.com/typblography/2012/09/source-code-pro.html> >>> > >>> [2] >>> http://sourceforge.net/__**projects/sourcecodepro.adobe/_** >>> _files/ <http://sourceforge.net/__projects/sourcecodepro.adobe/__files/> >>> <http://sourceforge.net/**projects/sourcecodepro.adobe/**files/<http://sourceforge.net/projects/sourcecodepro.adobe/files/> >>> > >>> [3] >>> http://blogs.adobe.com/__**typblography/2012/08/source-__** >>> sans-pro.html<http://blogs.adobe.com/__typblography/2012/08/source-__sans-pro.html> >>> <http://blogs.adobe.com/**typblography/2012/08/source-** >>> sans-pro.html<http://blogs.adobe.com/typblography/2012/08/source-sans-pro.html> >>> > >>> [4] >>> http://sourceforge.net/__**projects/sourcesans.adobe/__** >>> postdownload?source=dlp<http://sourceforge.net/__projects/sourcesans.adobe/__postdownload?source=dlp> >>> >>> <http://sourceforge.net/**projects/sourcesans.adobe/** >>> postdownload?source=dlp<http://sourceforge.net/projects/sourcesans.adobe/postdownload?source=dlp> >>> > >>> >>> >>> I'l let you try, then :) >>> >>> Thierry >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Thierry Goubier >>> CEA list >>> Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s >>> 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex >>> France >>> Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Best regards, >>> Igor Stasenko. >>> >> >> -- >> Thierry Goubier >> CEA list >> Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s >> 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex >> France >> Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 >> >> > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Oct. 17, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo Sprint Lille 18th October

by Luc Fabresse

Hi all, I will be there too. Luc #Luc 2013/10/8 Erwan Douaille <douailleerwan(a)gmail.com> > count me in :) > > (afternoon) > > > 2013/10/8 Noury Bouraqadi <bouraqadi(a)gmail.com> > >> I'll be traveling, so I won't make it. >> Hope to attend next time. >> >> Noury >> On 8 oct. 2013, at 15:40, Marcus Denker wrote: >> >> > What? Pharo Sprint >> > When? Friday, 18th October, slowly starting at 9:30am >> > >> > Where? >> > RMoD, Inria Lille, Building B, third floor >> > http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/web/pier/contact >> > >> > As the building is not open, please contact us before if you plan to >> come. >> > >> > <IMG_1118.jpeg> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Best regards, > > Douaille Erwan <douaille.erwan(a)gmail.com> >

Oct. 17, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] default monospaced code font

by Goubier Thierry

Le 17/10/2013 10:29, Igor Stasenko a Ã©crit : > hmm.. i have suspicion that it is actually adobe who can't handle the > font properly.. > because in some examples for source code pro font, the adjacent letters > jump onto each other. > i don't believe it is that bad (see attached)Inline images 1 Adobe or the viewer? I used evince to view it, not acrobat reader. It may point to incorrect spacing information in Source Sans Pro (I have not the errors you see in Source Code Pro). Who is in charge of the Source Pro font? Which typographer? Oh, Adobe apparently. If they can't handle it properly... Thierry > > On 17 October 2013 09:28, Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr > <mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr>> wrote: > > Excellent, I like the comparison a lot! Thanks! > > My take is: > - Unable to like Source Code Pro 9 (and it's so wide); > - Source Sans Pro 9 has spacing issues (16r, the r is too close) and > reading issues (it's the worse for the lL|i characters) > - Source sans Pro 10 is better than 9 (but what with the 2x space?) > > Overall, I'd stay with DejaVu Sans 9 based on this sample. In my > opinion, the best compromise density / readability. > > Thierry > > Le 16/10/2013 19:56, btc(a)openinworld.com > <mailto:btc@openinworld.com> a Ã©crit : > > Goubier Thierry wrote: > > I'd be more impressed if the argument was helping me distinguish > between | and l. > > > Yes. It is designed to do that. Some common failings of > monospaced fonts > are noted [1] and dealt with. There comment section is also > interesting. > > The attached PDFs are the result of getting the urge to compare > a broad > coverage of code examples (taken from "Terse Guide to Squeak") > against > three fonts: > * DejaVu Sans 9 point > * Source Code Pro [1] [2] 9 point > * Source Sans Pro [3] [4] 9 point & 10 point, since the width of > 10 was > the same as the others at 9. > Also attached is the source excel file. > > cheers -ben > > [1] > http://blogs.adobe.com/__typblography/2012/09/source-__code-pro.html > <http://blogs.adobe.com/typblography/2012/09/source-code-pro.html> > [2] > http://sourceforge.net/__projects/sourcecodepro.adobe/__files/ > <http://sourceforge.net/projects/sourcecodepro.adobe/files/> > [3] > http://blogs.adobe.com/__typblography/2012/08/source-__sans-pro.html > <http://blogs.adobe.com/typblography/2012/08/source-sans-pro.html> > [4] > http://sourceforge.net/__projects/sourcesans.adobe/__postdownload?source=dlp > <http://sourceforge.net/projects/sourcesans.adobe/postdownload?source=dlp> > > > I'l let you try, then :) > > Thierry > > > > -- > Thierry Goubier > CEA list > Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s > 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex > France > Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 > > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. -- Thierry Goubier CEA list Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex France Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95

Oct. 17, 2013