- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Issue #11876 (Do not allow shouldnt:raise: Error) and Seaside dev. on Pharo 3.0

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> Hi, > > just as info: looks like already fixed Pharo issue #11876 makes problem for Seaside in 3.0: > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/seaside-dev/2013-October/005509… > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/seaside-dev/2013-October/005540… It would be a bit sad that Seaside does not work in Pharo3.0 I imagine that Philippe is tired. I would revert the change and add a rule that check that the argument of shouldnt:raise: should not be an Error Stef > Thx > T. >

Oct. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] missing updates: 30503 30504

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Especially when nobody is running wild and screaming. If this would be case you would hear me from ghent ;D . I'm quite good at that but I decided that I'm in positive energy mode since a long time and that pushy people do not touch me anymore. I'm like Luffy , elastic :) Stef > Everybody does a lot of work for Pharo, visible and invisible. > We are complementary and we need each other - so we have to work together. > > On 23 Oct 2013, at 18:53, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 2013-10-23, at 16:06, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> On 2013-10-23, at 13:48, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>>> On Oct 23, 2013, at 10:52 AM, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> On 2013-10-22, at 10:44, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> For retracting files you need access to files.pharo.org. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is what should be written in the readme. >>>>>> >>>>>> BTW have you tried that you actually have access to the machine? >>>>>> Because I remember that it didn't work for you nor Esteban... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> So stef, did you check that you can actually edit the file? >>>> >>>> I cannot access it but I least I know that I should not look for it. >>>> And next time if there is a problem I just stop integrated and continue hacking on my cool stuff and look smart. >>> >>> Why can't you access it? >>> What do you want instead? >>> How do we avoid this situation in the future? (happened already before a couple of times) >> >> Just to get something straight here: >> >> You have hardly something to complain... What you see is the tip of the iceberg. >> I spend roughly 1-2 hours per week maintaining all the jenkins instances with all >> the slaves and all the jobs that run (and there is Christoph to, regularly fixing >> and tweaking things all around). >> >> Now running around wild and screaming that everything does not work and is not >> documented is highly demotivating. Marcus and Esteban work on it on a daily basis. >> If maintaining jenkins were so much fun, you would do it, but you don't. >> >> >> So enjoy, and focus on the things you are truly great at: motivating people for a better pharo! > >

Oct. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Issue 4255 ?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> I am confused, I was under the impression that these would already have been integrated (I was waiting for the summary mails): >> >> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/4255/Deprecate-MIMEType >> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/11964/Update-Zinc-Resource-Meta-Core >> >> The slice was written against #30512 after loading Zinc-Resource-Meta-Core.SvenVanCaekenberghe.20 - I hope it still works. >> >> Both issues were marked âFix to includeââ¦ >> >> > > Yes, this means âthe integrator should integrate themâ. > > I did not yet because keeping the name Zinc-Resource-Meta-Core.SvenVanCaekenberghe.20 in the image means manual work > (creating a .cs, adding it to the update stream, doing update, later fixing the out-of-sync Scriptloaderâ¦) > > Maybe I will just merge it the normal wayâ¦ much easier. Yes else this is too complex! Stef

Oct. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] VM for Athens Graphics

by dimitris chloupis

I think the future concerning user interaction is thought reading devices. They are already at consumer level being able to perform basic brain wave scans for simple interactions even providing open source SDKs and relatively low cost at 300 euros taking into consideration that they are cutting edge technology.Â So software that can read your thought is already here but still in its infancy. Voice recognition is also here for quite some time now and in wide use now with Siri or whatever Apple calls it and with other companies offering similar solutions. Personally I don't see other more optimal ways.Â Oh and by the way comparing Apples and Oranges is both possible and useful. If you cant compare apples and oranges , then you cant think.Â Concerning Pharo on iOS its perfectly doable, its just a matter of someone actually doing it. Many languages have ported to iOS , there is no reason for Apple to refuse Pharo to do so. Â By the way Platform agnostic Assembler sounds fascinating. I was thinking about nativeboost and it looks like it gives Pharo features that C has but without giving up the pharo syntax. It really opens a new universe of potential for Pharo.Â On Wednesday, 23 October 2013, 22:17, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: On 23 October 2013 14:32, J.F. Rick <self(a)je77.com> wrote: On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 1:32 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >Mouse i much more precise than fingers. I doubt it going to be replaced. I think it will stay. >> > > >"When we were an agrarian nation, all cars were trucks because thatâs what you needed on the farms. But cars eventually became more prevalent as people moved to cities. PCs will be like trucksâ¦they are still going to be around, but there is a transformation coming, and it will make some people uneasy. Is it the iPad? Who knows? Will it be next year or five years from now?" -Steve Jobs > > >Yes, mice will stick around but they won't be the dominant paradigm of computing. Already, tablet sales have eclipsed the sales of desktops / laptops. Fingers aren't inherently less precise. I, for instance, am very happy using an Apple trackpad rather than a mouse. Touch screens have a fat finger problem (i.e., you are often covering up what you are wanting to precisely touch), but precision in itself isn't the problem. > > Â Mouse if not truck. Comparing touchpad and mouse, as to me is like comparing Apples(tm) and oranges. They are both human interface devices and complement to each other. Some things you can do better using mice, some using trackpad (or touchscreen). Try controlling first-person shooter game with trackpad.. good luck :) I only hoping, one day there will be even better HID's than mouse or trackpad. As of today, they both having serious shortcomings and not universal ones to let humans control computers with muscle power. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Oct. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Startup Preferences: An Alternative

by phil＠highoctane.be

I am sold. I happen top have an Excel sheet with days until I am quite old. I did that sheet when I was about 30. 43 now :-) Time flies indeed. Phil On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 7:48 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com>wrote: > philippeback wrote > > I am looking at this configuration and had fun loading the Batcave thing. > > What is this green area and slider on the right for? > > Cool! Ha ha, the batcave is full of experiments... the green widget is > telling you that the system is up-to-date. It should turn red if there are > Pharo updates available but not loaded. The other widget with the slider > (which I don't think works so well, IIRC there is a bug in the slider > interaction), well, ha ha, I read an article about how short an average > human life actually is from the viewpoint of days remaining, which impacted > me greatly, so it was supposed to be a little reminder about that. I think > the slider was to play with different age projections and it was supposed > to > count down as the days go by... > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Startup-Preferences-An-Alternative-tp4713968p4716684.… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > >

Oct. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] VM acceptance tests

by Paul DeBruicker

How are you loading Seaside? I thought the point of declaring versions in Metacello configurations was so that at some point in the future you could create de novo an image identical to one you created in the past. Why not just pick a Seaside version and load it every time? e.g. (ConfigurationOfSeaside30 project version:'3.0.8') load. Camillo Bruni-3 wrote > I am still struggling with the VM acceptance test. Currently we're loading > Seaside and Moose, two very big projects which hopefully stress many parts > of > the VM. > > The problem is, that these two projects evolve by themselves, adding > another > axis of freedom which I would like to avoid. > > So is there an easy way to freeze a configuration and store it on our > fileserver, > so that we have a fixed reference? (Note, we use a 2.0 image) > > If we have that, I can even integrate the validation process into the > travis build > which should make contributions to the pharo-vm much easier... > > > signature.asc (457 bytes) > <http://forum.world.st/attachment/4716692/0/signature.asc> -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/VM-acceptance-tests-tp4716692p4716702.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Oct. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] VM for Athens Graphics

by Igor Stasenko

On 23 October 2013 16:04, Henrik Johansen <henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no>wrote: > > On Oct 23, 2013, at 1:52 , StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > wrote: > > > On Oct 22, 2013, at 7:37 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > For the ipad , best would be to implement a quartz backend for athens. > As a temporary solution we could try to compile cairo library for it, but > i am not expert in iOS > to say if it can be done without much fuss. > Also, since iOS is famous for banning any applications which using > generated code, > that means it should be done by writing a VM plugin and then adopting new > primitives to > work with Athens API. > > > Igor it also means that we should find a way to get nativeboost wroking on > iPad (probably by generating a "DLL" from NB). > > > > There's another reason why Igor said a plugin backend would be the easier > way, if you were to use NB, you'd also first need to implement AsmJit for > ARM, as well as an ARM version of the entire NB FFI machinery , which would > be large efforts in and of themselves. > > Well implementing ARM-FFI is largely orthogonal to Athens. Yes, i am happily using it for Cairo and it lets me customize /rethink things as they go without need to touch VM. Which means much faster development process and feedback etc. But since Athens API is settled down more or less, now it is quite possible to implement a plugin for different backend, knowing that it won't require huge changes later. Concerning ARM: - Damien Pollet works on ARM assembler for ASMJit. as soon as it working, we can try doing something with it. But in addition, what i would like to do is to move more towards platform-neutral FFI implementation, using low-level assembler DSL which is platform neutral. There's a work started on it as part of Mate project, but it is yet far from finished. Cheers, > Henry > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Oct. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] VM for Athens Graphics

by Igor Stasenko

On 23 October 2013 14:32, J.F. Rick <self(a)je77.com> wrote: > On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 1:32 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Mouse i much more precise than fingers. I doubt it going to be replaced. >> I think it will stay. >> > > "When we were an agrarian nation, all cars were trucks because thatâs what > you needed on the farms. But cars eventually became more prevalent as > people moved to cities. PCs will be like trucksâ¦they are still going to be > around, but there is a transformation coming, and it will make some people > uneasy. Is it the iPad? Who knows? Will it be next year or five years from > now?" -Steve Jobs > > Yes, mice will stick around but they won't be the dominant paradigm of > computing. Already, tablet sales have eclipsed the sales of desktops / > laptops. Fingers aren't inherently less precise. I, for instance, am very > happy using an Apple trackpad rather than a mouse. Touch screens have a fat > finger problem (i.e., you are often covering up what you are wanting to > precisely touch), but precision in itself isn't the problem. > > Mouse if not truck. Comparing touchpad and mouse, as to me is like comparing Apples(tm) and oranges. They are both human interface devices and complement to each other. Some things you can do better using mice, some using trackpad (or touchscreen). Try controlling first-person shooter game with trackpad.. good luck :) I only hoping, one day there will be even better HID's than mouse or trackpad. As of today, they both having serious shortcomings and not universal ones to let humans control computers with muscle power. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Oct. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] VM for Athens Graphics

by Igor Stasenko

On 23 October 2013 13:52, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>wrote: > > On Oct 22, 2013, at 7:37 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On 22 October 2013 16:09, J.F. Rick <self(a)je77.com> wrote: > >> I'm excited about the upcoming move to Athens graphics and would like to >> support that effort. It seems like the base is still under heavy >> development and that I should use an up-to-date Pharo 3.0 to properly use >> it. Let me know if that is incorrect. >> >> > The latest Pharo vms for all 3 major platforms support Athens with Cairo > as backend. > It is our starting point, one day we might choose to have different > backend(s), like opengl etc. > > > But Athens is an API so the idea is that we should be able to switch to > other rendering back-end wtihout been forced to rewrite everything. > > Right. And Athens on Amber is best example of that: http://m-sp.org/gsoc2013/demo/amber-athens/ > > I was wondering for what VMs Athens is applicable. Would it automatically >> work on Linux? I've also been using Pharo / Squeak on the iPad. Would >> Athens work there or would the VM have to be changed? >> > > For the ipad , best would be to implement a quartz backend for athens. > As a temporary solution we could try to compile cairo library for it, but > i am not expert in iOS > to say if it can be done without much fuss. > Also, since iOS is famous for banning any applications which using > generated code, > that means it should be done by writing a VM plugin and then adopting new > primitives to > work with Athens API. > > > Igor it also means that we should find a way to get nativeboost wroking on > iPad (probably by generating a "DLL" from NB). > > aha.. and digitally sign it before you can use it.. and then ask nicely Apple to approve it :) -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Oct. 23, 2013

Issue #11876 (Do not allow shouldnt:raise: Error) and Seaside dev. on Pharo 3.0

by Torsten Bergmann

Hi, just as info: looks like already fixed Pharo issue #11876 makes problem for Seaside in 3.0: http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/seaside-dev/2013-October/005509… http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/seaside-dev/2013-October/005540… Thx T.

Oct. 23, 2013