- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Fuel] How to tell Fuel *not* to encode references?

by roberto.minelli＠usi.ch

Guys, Fuel itâs perfect, it wasâof courseâmy fault. When I considered everything and I moved away from Ring definition which caused me lot of troubles I forgot to consider MethodContext objects, which in turn points to CompiledMethod which point to classes. Thus Fuel serialize all this crap (including classes) and in the materialization phase I got clearly a FLClassNotFound. Thanks a lot for the support, Roby On Oct 29, 2013, at 8:03 AM, roberto.minelli(a)usi.ch wrote: > Iâll look at the docâ¦ However if some of you is online in Skype we can have a chatâ¦ > > Cheers and thanks for help, > Roby > > On Oct 28, 2013, at 11:45 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Indeed, I think I agree with Max. You can also use the substitute feature and replace the instVars you don't want with nil or something...See the doc link Martin sent. >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> In my opinion the #fuelAccept: for the meta description object should be overridden and there the behaviour for problematic references should be defined. >> >> Roberto, what references does your meta object hold on to? >> >> Max >> >> >> On 28.10.2013, at 22:16, Martin Dias <tinchodias(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 5:13 PM, roberto.minelli(a)usi.ch <roberto.minelli(a)usi.ch> wrote: >>> The idea is that I have an object (a session) which has meta data (time, duration, author) and some other object inside. >>> >>> I want that Fuel serializes just that object and not pointes to other object, globals and what not. >>> >>> This causes me a lot of troubles, moreover it makes the fuel file bigger than the optimumâ¦ >>> >>> Still there is something that I don't understand in your problem. If you just prune the graph, what your objects represent (conceptually) can be lost. Did you pick one of your problematic "session objects" are explored it until find how the unwanted block closures are referenced? I mean, fuel doesn't invent the unwanted closures magically, you are saying to fuel to serialize the graph with the unwanted objects already there. >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> R >>> >>> >>> On Oct 28, 2013, at 4:57 PM, Martin Dias <tinchodias(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 4:47 PM, roberto.minelli(a)usi.ch <roberto.minelli(a)usi.ch> wrote: >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> On Oct 28, 2013, at 4:36 PM, Martin Dias <tinchodias(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Currently there is no such option. >>>> >>>> Maybe it is something which is needed, what do you think? >>>> >>>> The idea is that, if you serialize: >>>> >>>> a -> b -> c >>>> >>>> fuel actually would encode: >>>> >>>> a -> b -> nil >>>> >>>> >>>> that? >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Mariano >> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > >

Oct. 29, 2013

Call for Participation in the Smalltalk Devroom at FOSDEM2014

by Stephan Eggermont

Call for Participation in the Smalltalk Devroom at FOSDEM 2014. http://www.fosdem.org, please forward " A devroom for the Pharo, Squeak, Amber, GST, EtoilÃ©, Seaside, Moose Smalltalk projects & Newspeak as derived language. Smalltalk environments offer a very high development productivity, unmatched by their successors. Come do some pair programming with us and experience yourself the advantages of a real OO environment" The meetup will take place Saturday, February 1, 2014, from 9AM until 5PM, building AW. This room has 72 seats, a VGA video projector and wireless internet. More information will be available later. If there are volunteers to record video content, the FOSDEM organization kindly offered to provide needed equipment & instructions. Please let me know if you would be willing to spend some time pointing a camera at a speaker. Proposals on content and format are welcome. People interested in running a session should send me an email at stephan ( @ ) stack ( dot ) nl with 'FOSDEM2014â in the subject and the following information: - Their name - The project they are associated with - A short bio, to be put on the website along with their speaker name - (optionally) a picture of themselves - The title of their session (which will go on the website and in the booklet) - A abstract describing the session in further detail. - The desired length of the session. - The desired time slot in which they want to hold the session. I will send out updates on a regular basis to the lists and anyone stating his interest. Suggested values for the duration are 55min, 25min, 6m40 (Pecha Kucha). The desired time slot is meant to help you prevent conflicts with other dev rooms in which you might have a talk or your travel arrangements. There are alternative, non smalltalk-specific tracks available: lightning talk and the main track The deadline for submissions is December 31, 23:00 GMT+1. Devroom related URLs: http://www.pharo-project.org http://www.squeak.org/ http://etoileos.com/ http://www.seaside.st/ http://smalltalk.gnu.org/ http://www.moosetechnology.org http://amber-lang.net http://newspeaklanguage.org/ http://www.esug.org First proposal already arrived: Stefan Marr proposed: I could give a presentation on SOM (Simple Object Machine) Smalltalk. I would especially go into detail of the Truffle-based and the RPython (PyPy) based implementations to show modern ways of language implementations with the goal of achieving high performance.

Oct. 29, 2013

TODOs

by phil＠highoctane.be

I wanted an easy way to access my TODO list and added that to my Nautilus add-on. http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~philippeback/HOExtras/packages/HOExtras-Nau… Maybe Ben can help me enhance this so that there is no need to have a class selected to get the command. As a general note, I played with the existing Nautilus Plugins in 2.0 but more of them lead to an image freeze/bugs or bad effects after a while. Which plugins can be considered safe? I'd like to tweak the browser a bit (yeah, adding back the middle bar with "senders"... etc I liked it.) Phil

Oct. 29, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Hungry Pharo

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> A greater than, say, 1% base CPU load from an otherwise idle application would indicate that it's doing some busy waiting somewhere... in my Activity Monitor, I don't see too many processes doing that, so just using an ObjC framework doesn't seem to be the guilty part. By the way, very old versions of VisualWorks used to be bad in that way, but not any more; so there is something that can be done about it. if I'm correct there are some busy waiting process in the VM instead of an event based + semaphore architecture. We already removed some of the polling behavior at the image level but there are probably more and there was a discussion in the VM mailing list. Now I do not know the conclusion. > A large virtual memory working set wouldn't help either for power efficiency, though with today's RAM sizes it's probably less important.

Oct. 29, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] about Morphic-Core

by Pavel Krivanek

Hmm, Canvas & Co. contain currently some Morphic logic but it makes sense to make it standalone Morphic-independent package from these classes. Good point. -- Pavel 2013/10/25 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: > It looks cool :) > > Now I was wondering why Canvas and friends are part of it and not into Graphics > > Stef

Oct. 29, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Fuel] How to tell Fuel *not* to encode references?

by roberto.minelli＠usi.ch

Iâll look at the docâ¦ However if some of you is online in Skype we can have a chatâ¦ Cheers and thanks for help, Roby On Oct 28, 2013, at 11:45 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Indeed, I think I agree with Max. You can also use the substitute feature and replace the instVars you don't want with nil or something...See the doc link Martin sent. > > > On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com> wrote: > In my opinion the #fuelAccept: for the meta description object should be overridden and there the behaviour for problematic references should be defined. > > Roberto, what references does your meta object hold on to? > > Max > > > On 28.10.2013, at 22:16, Martin Dias <tinchodias(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 5:13 PM, roberto.minelli(a)usi.ch <roberto.minelli(a)usi.ch> wrote: >> The idea is that I have an object (a session) which has meta data (time, duration, author) and some other object inside. >> >> I want that Fuel serializes just that object and not pointes to other object, globals and what not. >> >> This causes me a lot of troubles, moreover it makes the fuel file bigger than the optimumâ¦ >> >> Still there is something that I don't understand in your problem. If you just prune the graph, what your objects represent (conceptually) can be lost. Did you pick one of your problematic "session objects" are explored it until find how the unwanted block closures are referenced? I mean, fuel doesn't invent the unwanted closures magically, you are saying to fuel to serialize the graph with the unwanted objects already there. >> >> >> Cheers, >> R >> >> >> On Oct 28, 2013, at 4:57 PM, Martin Dias <tinchodias(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > >> > >> > >> > On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 4:47 PM, roberto.minelli(a)usi.ch <roberto.minelli(a)usi.ch> wrote: >> > Thanks, >> > >> > On Oct 28, 2013, at 4:36 PM, Martin Dias <tinchodias(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > > Currently there is no such option. >> > >> > Maybe it is something which is needed, what do you think? >> > >> > The idea is that, if you serialize: >> > >> > a -> b -> c >> > >> > fuel actually would encode: >> > >> > a -> b -> nil >> > >> > >> > that? >> > >> > >> >> >> > > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Oct. 29, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Are there still halos in Pharo 3.0?

by ClÃ©ment Bera

Well I use them all the time. I press shift then while shift is still pressed I select an area and all morphics inside are trapped in the halo. Very useful to delete multiple morphics at once. 2013/10/29 Nicolas Cellier <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com> > Thanks Esteban, > It works perfectly. > I would have sweared I've tried this combination... > > > 2013/10/29 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> > >> yes. >> alt+shift works for me (in osx) >> >> On Oct 28, 2013, at 9:11 PM, Nicolas Cellier < >> nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > I tried various key combinations with mouse click but no one worked... >> > >> > in Morph>>handleMouseDown: >> > it seems like this block never fires: >> > anEvent blueButtonChanged ifTrue:[^self blueButtonDown: anEvent]. >> > >> > Is it still possible to have these halos? >> >> >> >

Oct. 29, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Tests with multiple processes

by David T. Lewis

I have some experience with this, not related to Smalltalk but maybe still relevant. I have worked with systems that were designed around networked message passing, implemented on platforms like MS-DOS with time slicing kernels, Series I, OS/2, etc. These systems were designed to operate with asynchronous message passing protocols. The asynchronous designs were intended to support primitive OS environments, including MS-DOS with software interrupts for multitasking. These are production-critical manufacturing applications, and in the course of modernizing them I have reimplemented the network protocols in Java and moved them to new computing platforms. Along the way I have found that the asynchronous designs could always be replaced by bidirectional send-receive transactions running in the context of a thread or process. Even the systems that appeared to be most complex have turned out to work perfectly well when modeled as synchronous send-receive transactions on a bidirectional communication channel. The software is much simpler to understand and debug when structured in this manner. My conclusion is that designing around asynchronous, loosely coupled channels sounds like a good idea, but in practice it leads to unnecessary complexity, and to systems that are difficult to debug and support. $0.02 Dave On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 01:19:17AM +0100, Igor Stasenko wrote: > Maybe i'm off track, but here my thoughts: > > - one big misconception (and most problems which arising from it), that > people tend to use a bidirectional communication models instead of > unidirectional. > In bidirectional you tend to think as if you using same channel for sending > and receiving data. > The truth is, that it is two unidirectional channels, wired in the way so > they look like single bidirectional channel. > > And what it means, that coupling sending and receiving activities in a > single thread is wrong: > - you should not wait for data only if you sent something > - you should not expect that activity from other end is possible only > after you _send_ something. > > If you treat connection as two unidirectional, loosely coupled channels, > instead of single bidirectional one, > you will find that in such setup you don't have many problems. > > You should definitely go for (2), e.g. you should decouple a > transport/communication layer > from your program/logic flow: if some process wants to send data and block > until some response to > that message arrived, you should do so. > You can simply put that process on semaphore, and adding it to the list of > 'awaiting answer' > processes in your scheduler which runs in separate process to handle > incoming data. > Then you can have different strategies, what to do if > a) data seems taking too long to arrive (signal timeout) > b) connection lost > c) etc.. > > ohh.. with smalltalk it is so easy to operate with those things (the fact > the VM is green-threaded doesn't > changes much). > > > > On 28 October 2013 23:52, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > > > > > Am 28.10.2013 um 23:50 schrieb Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name>: > > > > Are there any approaches to simulate coroutines in a single thread > > environment or approaches to deal with multiple processes within one > > process? > > > > > > That should have been > > > > Are there any approaches to simulate coroutines in a single thread > > environment or approaches to deal with multiple processes within one test? > > > > Norbert > > > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko.

Oct. 29, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Are there still halos in Pharo 3.0?

by Nicolas Cellier

Thanks Esteban, It works perfectly. I would have sweared I've tried this combination... 2013/10/29 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> > yes. > alt+shift works for me (in osx) > > On Oct 28, 2013, at 9:11 PM, Nicolas Cellier < > nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > I tried various key combinations with mouse click but no one worked... > > > > in Morph>>handleMouseDown: > > it seems like this block never fires: > > anEvent blueButtonChanged ifTrue:[^self blueButtonDown: anEvent]. > > > > Is it still possible to have these halos? > > >

Oct. 29, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Tests with multiple processes

by Igor Stasenko

Maybe i'm off track, but here my thoughts: - one big misconception (and most problems which arising from it), that people tend to use a bidirectional communication models instead of unidirectional. In bidirectional you tend to think as if you using same channel for sending and receiving data. The truth is, that it is two unidirectional channels, wired in the way so they look like single bidirectional channel. And what it means, that coupling sending and receiving activities in a single thread is wrong: - you should not wait for data only if you sent something - you should not expect that activity from other end is possible only after you _send_ something. If you treat connection as two unidirectional, loosely coupled channels, instead of single bidirectional one, you will find that in such setup you don't have many problems. You should definitely go for (2), e.g. you should decouple a transport/communication layer from your program/logic flow: if some process wants to send data and block until some response to that message arrived, you should do so. You can simply put that process on semaphore, and adding it to the list of 'awaiting answer' processes in your scheduler which runs in separate process to handle incoming data. Then you can have different strategies, what to do if a) data seems taking too long to arrive (signal timeout) b) connection lost c) etc.. ohh.. with smalltalk it is so easy to operate with those things (the fact the VM is green-threaded doesn't changes much). On 28 October 2013 23:52, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > > Am 28.10.2013 um 23:50 schrieb Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name>: > > Are there any approaches to simulate coroutines in a single thread > environment or approaches to deal with multiple processes within one > process? > > > That should have been > > Are there any approaches to simulate coroutines in a single thread > environment or approaches to deal with multiple processes within one test? > > Norbert > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Oct. 29, 2013