- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Spec new release :)

by Benjamin

So one can import a md file and turn it into pier Ben On 14 Nov 2013, at 02:37, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>> Is it because this is not in Pharo that this is better? May be this is a new trend? >> >> Itâs because Sven ask me to point him the PEG grammar I saw for markdown. > Ok > >> And I think that Pier could benefit from a md parser > > may be > to do what? so that people can edit file with pier using mardown? in addition to the pier syntax? > May be but I do not have time for that. Now if somebody needs that the pier code is MIT. > >>> Now if you have the time, you can write a pier exporter and everybody will be happy >>> but I will not code in lua nor haskell nor ruby nor PHP. >>> >>> Personally I prefer to focus on the real parts: writing good books >>> >>> Stef >

Nov. 14, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Spec new release :)

by Nicolas Petton

I'm just talking about class comment, writing a book is a totally different story :) Nico StÃ©phane Ducasse writes: > Nico > > when I will read a book on Amber written using the default markdown language > and that the book will be of decent quality, I will reconsider my position. > Start writing (but extend markdown first because else you will get a kind of book with no cross > ref no citation no index) so a "book" that I would not like to read and enjoy. > > Stef > > > On Nov 14, 2013, at 1:09 AM, Nicolas Petton <petton.nicolas(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> Sven Van Caekenberghe writes: >> >>> It would be completely silly to have class comments in MD (no matter >>> how cool this would be) _and_ *not* be able to have Nautilus >>> parse/render them, with active links, etcâ¦ >> >> We actually do that in the new IDE of Amber :) Then we have very nicely >> displayed class comments. >> >> Nico >> -- Nicolas Petton http://nicolas-petton.fr

Nov. 14, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Spec new release :)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

>> Is it because this is not in Pharo that this is better? May be this is a new trend? > > Itâs because Sven ask me to point him the PEG grammar I saw for markdown. Ok > And I think that Pier could benefit from a md parser may be to do what? so that people can edit file with pier using mardown? in addition to the pier syntax? May be but I do not have time for that. Now if somebody needs that the pier code is MIT. >> Now if you have the time, you can write a pier exporter and everybody will be happy >> but I will not code in lua nor haskell nor ruby nor PHP. >> >> Personally I prefer to focus on the real parts: writing good books >> >> Stef

Nov. 14, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Spec new release :)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Nico when I will read a book on Amber written using the default markdown language and that the book will be of decent quality, I will reconsider my position. Start writing (but extend markdown first because else you will get a kind of book with no cross ref no citation no index) so a "book" that I would not like to read and enjoy. Stef On Nov 14, 2013, at 1:09 AM, Nicolas Petton <petton.nicolas(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Sven Van Caekenberghe writes: > >> It would be completely silly to have class comments in MD (no matter >> how cool this would be) _and_ *not* be able to have Nautilus >> parse/render them, with active links, etcâ¦ > > We actually do that in the new IDE of Amber :) Then we have very nicely > displayed class comments. > > Nico >

Nov. 14, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Spec new release :)

by Benjamin

On 14 Nov 2013, at 02:25, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Is it because this is not in Pharo that this is better? May be this is a new trend? Itâs because Sven ask me to point him the PEG grammar I saw for markdown. And I think that Pier could benefit from a md parser > > Now if you have the time, you can write a pier exporter and everybody will be happy > but I will not code in lua nor haskell nor ruby nor PHP. > > Personally I prefer to focus on the real parts: writing good books > > Stef > >> Have a look at http://jgm.github.io/lunamark/ :) >> It may be a dirty hack, that I do not know :) >> >> Ben >

Nov. 14, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Spec new release :)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Is it because this is not in Pharo that this is better? May be this is a new trend? Now if you have the time, you can write a pier exporter and everybody will be happy but I will not code in lua nor haskell nor ruby nor PHP. Personally I prefer to focus on the real parts: writing good books Stef > Have a look at http://jgm.github.io/lunamark/ :) > It may be a dirty hack, that I do not know :) > > Ben

Nov. 14, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Spec new release :)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> >>> It would be completely silly to have class comments in MD (no matter how cool this would be) _and_ *not* be able to have Nautilus parse/render them, with active links, etcâ¦ >> >> With Athens inside the image we will use the pier parser to generate a document tree and render it inside the image. >> Now one step at a time. >> >>>> There are some PEG grammar for markdown, maybe it could be reused so PP can parse it :) >>>> then one could generate Pier format out of markdown :) >> >> What most of you do not get is that. But I do not care about Pier format. I care about a REAL solution that can produce a REAL document tree AND that ***I*** can edit and maintain and enhance so that I can create books. > > So why not extending markdown then ? repeat after me: - we have a working parser + model that works and we produce books with it since YEARS! - do you want to hack in haskell or whatever language - not me :) - what is the value of an extended markdown if it is not supported by git tools = the same as pier syntax - we have a cool emacs mode for pier with big fonts for sections and all the rest. - we have a pier cms with pier syntax, so if we want we can even write directly on the web. Lukas and me wrote the seaside book like that after latex and XML. - we have a latex exporter for pier domain - we have a html exporter for pier domain - we have nice visitors so why should I hack a non standard under specified language without a decent debugger in a language that I do not want to learn? I prefer to concentrate on writing books and coding more important things. Now if you want you can try your own way and create a pier exporter so that your documentation find its way in our books. But I will not do it. Stef

Nov. 14, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Spec new release :)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

>> >>> Why not generating markdown code from pier code? >>> If the whole problem is exposure on the web. Someone has considered pdf2html or latex2html? >> >> I did => suicidal tendencies. >> The results looks like shit. >> >> I did not try pdf2html. >> >> Now pier is a compromise so that normal people can write chapter without being a latex freaks like us. >> >> Stef > > Thatâs also the thing, md is designed in a (shitty) way so one does not have to âlearnâ it since itâs is âcloseâ > to what one will write in an email did you check pier syntax? how far it is from markdown? why is it a wiki syntax? remember wiki means fast do you think that I did not think about it? Ignacio already wrote 5 pages of calculator spec and I do not think that it took him more that 10 min to get the syntax. Some details should be remembered but the main is dead simple.

Nov. 14, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Spec new release :)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Nov 14, 2013, at 1:03 AM, Benjamin <Benjamin.VanRyseghem.Pharo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 13 Nov 2013, at 20:40, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > >> So read the thread that yuriy rasied last week >> my sumarry >> - write in pier >> publish in latex, html, markdong > > âmarkdongâ ? thatâs a chinese variant :P ;P yes 400 Ã 195 - baudelet.net vietnamese apparently > For md, there is pandoc (http://johnmacfarlane.net/pandoc/) > it converts a lot of format into a lot of other formats :) Yes we know. But again as I said it one million times. Markdown does not offer what is needed to write books. I will not repeat here. And I will not hack pandoc to make it works. > >> - too many variation of markdown >> - do not want to ask in haskell, rubyâ¦ to extend libraries > > I do not get it >> - do not want to **hack** in haskell, rubyâ¦ to extend libraries > >> - markdown does not support references and other essential points for making decent books > > What do you mean by "references and other essential pointsâ ? I will not repeat it :) Read the thread of yuriy. > > Ben > >> >> Stef >> >> >> On Nov 13, 2013, at 7:59 PM, Benjamin <Benjamin.VanRyseghem.Pharo(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> It was a real question, and it feels like you overreacted the answer â¦ >>> >>> To me, markdown or pier is a new syntax to learn so I am asking â¦ >>> To me, doing Pier because you do or because you said to is no really an argument. >>> >>> Then I am open to a real answer but I also see that markdown is integrated to a lot of tools (github and jekylls by examples) >>> and that a lot of people knows about markdown. >>> >>> This was a real question, not a troll ... >>> >>> Ben >>> >>> On 13 Nov 2013, at 19:22, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>> >>>> do you really think that I insist of using pier syntax because >>>> A- I want to lose my time >>>> B- this is for my ego? >>>> C- because I'm funny >>>> D- ... >>>> >>>> No seriously? >>>> >>>> If you want to get an answer read the thread that yuri raised a while ago. >>>> Because we already discussed discussed and discussed it. >>>> >>>> I will not write any book in markdown. Now you can try and we see. >>>> >>>> Stef >>>> >>>>> Stef, what is the advantages of writing it in Pier compared to markdown ? >>>>> >>>>> Ben >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >

Nov. 14, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Spec new release :)

by Nicolas Petton

Sven Van Caekenberghe writes: > It would be completely silly to have class comments in MD (no matter > how cool this would be) _and_ *not* be able to have Nautilus > parse/render them, with active links, etcâ¦ We actually do that in the new IDE of Amber :) Then we have very nicely displayed class comments. Nico

Nov. 14, 2013