- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Responsible development

by Esteban A. Maringolo

Hi Phil, Yes, the SwingWorker in Swing is similar to the AsyncTask in Android, but they are "one shot async tasks". In the other hand, the WebWorker in HTTP5 or Handler in Android, what they do is to post messages to the message queue of the UI thread. Regards, Esteban A. Maringolo 2013/12/2 phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be>: > Same story with Swing UI in Java if you want decent performance. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SwingWorker > > Phil > > > > On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 3:10 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> > wrote: >> >> 2013/12/2 Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com>: >> > Yes, This is a nice idea, but I was telling about the other thing. Itâs >> > really simple to start a new process in Pharo. Maybe we should introduce >> > common practices in pharo? When I was following Obj-C course, one of the >> > fundamental thing that was taught: do time consuming tasks in the other >> > process. So I want to write a chapter on the concurrent programming in >> > Pharo, but is question is: am I missing something? Because this looks quite >> > trivial. >> >> Unless you program everything based on callbacks, then even if you >> fork explicitly (new Processes) or by means of Futures, Promises, >> etc... at one point you'll have to wait (it is, block) every time you >> need to update the UI. >> >> The good practice is to spend the least time possible running thing in >> the UI thread. >> >> But given the fact the VM is single process in terms of host OS, >> callbacks won't provide much resilience either. >> >> Regards, >> >> Esteban A. Maringolo >> >> ps: As an concrete example, Android will kill any process taking more >> than 5 seconds in the main thread. So EVERYTHING except events, >> painting and layout, must take less than that, and if you do I/O or >> computation, you have to use threads. >> Ref: >> http://developer.android.com/guide/components/processes-and-threads.html >> >

Dec. 2, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Responsible development

by Pavel Krivanek

User interrupt (cmd + .) was not working? -- Pavel 2013/12/2 Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> > Sidenote about this. > > I don't know about this particular problem you faced with Nautilus. > But the issue is "unfixable", IMHO, because everything runs in the > same process. > > So there is no way to stop the current active process if it is REALLY > stuck (100% CPU, 1 CORE). If it gets into an infinite unbreakable > loop, or indefinitely blocking on I/O, then the entire VM gets > unresponsive. > > For that reason I think that nothing should run in the UI Thread > (which in Pharo is the main thread), except for event handling and > rendering. Or... the VM should notice abnormal processes eating a lot > of resources and warn the user. > > That's one nice feature of Smalltalk/X, every windows runs its own > thread, with its own event queue, etc. You can kill it safely, without > trowing away the whole image. > > Regards! > > Esteban A. Maringolo > > > 2013/12/2 Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com>: > > Hi guys, I have some thoughts about how we develop for Pharo. > > > > I was doing something in in Nautilus, and it started rising errors, > which is ok (well, itâs not ok, but this happens during so rapid > development). But then I clicked on something in Nautilus and ended up in > the infinite loop. Shouldnât we develop our tools in a more friendly way? > When my finder freezes I donât have to restart OS X, but when Nautilus > freezes I have to restart Pharo. > > > > Uko > >

Dec. 2, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Moose-dev] Re: Similarity Matrix

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

then this is really cool :) On Dec 2, 2013, at 1:39 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: >> Really nice. >> In fact it would be ****great**** if we can plug the comparison between the x and y cells (which can be different). >> Because like that we get a simple matrix based comparator similar to the one of early paper of prejinshight work. > > This is the case actually. > > Consider this rather simple and small example: > SimilarityMatrix new > on: #('hello world' 'welcome to our world' 'hello means bonjour' 'bye bye') > by: [ :m1 : m2 | > (m1 substrings intersection: m2 substrings) size > / ((1 max: (m1 substrings union: m2 substrings) size) + 1) "NB penalty for small methods" > ]; > gridView > > The output is > > <Screen Shot 2013-12-02 at 9.36.58 AM.png> > > It visually says that âhello worldâ is close to âwelcome to out worldâ and to âhello means bonjourâ, because âhelloâ and âworldâ are in common. > > Alexandre >

Dec. 2, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Responsible development

by phil＠highoctane.be

Same story with Swing UI in Java if you want decent performance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SwingWorker Phil On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 3:10 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com>wrote: > 2013/12/2 Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com>: > > Yes, This is a nice idea, but I was telling about the other thing. Itâs > really simple to start a new process in Pharo. Maybe we should introduce > common practices in pharo? When I was following Obj-C course, one of the > fundamental thing that was taught: do time consuming tasks in the other > process. So I want to write a chapter on the concurrent programming in > Pharo, but is question is: am I missing something? Because this looks quite > trivial. > > Unless you program everything based on callbacks, then even if you > fork explicitly (new Processes) or by means of Futures, Promises, > etc... at one point you'll have to wait (it is, block) every time you > need to update the UI. > > The good practice is to spend the least time possible running thing in > the UI thread. > > But given the fact the VM is single process in terms of host OS, > callbacks won't provide much resilience either. > > Regards, > > Esteban A. Maringolo > > ps: As an concrete example, Android will kill any process taking more > than 5 seconds in the main thread. So EVERYTHING except events, > painting and layout, must take less than that, and if you do I/O or > computation, you have to use threads. > Ref: > http://developer.android.com/guide/components/processes-and-threads.html > >

Dec. 2, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Solaris VM ?

by jannik laval

Hi, After a while, I have the information. This is a x86 (this is not for me). I will try to install a Solaris VM, and install a Pharo on top. Jannik 2013/11/27 Andreas Wacknitz <a.wacknitz(a)gmx.de> > Hi Jannik, > > some time ago I was able to compile the old Squeak VM on Solaris (SPARC > and x86). > I havenât tried it for a long time, especially not with Cog or StackVM. > Which version of Solaris are you using? > > Best regards, > Andreas > > Am 25.11.2013 um 22:50 schrieb jannik.laval <jannik.laval(a)gmail.com>: > > > Hi guys, > > > > Does anyone know if Pharo can work on a Solaris System ? > > > > Cheers, > > Jannik > > > > > -- ~~Jannik Laval~~ Ãcole des Mines de Douai Enseignant-chercheur http://www.jannik-laval.eu http://car.mines-douai.fr/

Dec. 2, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Responsible development

by Esteban A. Maringolo

2013/12/2 Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com>: > Yes, This is a nice idea, but I was telling about the other thing. Itâs really simple to start a new process in Pharo. Maybe we should introduce common practices in pharo? When I was following Obj-C course, one of the fundamental thing that was taught: do time consuming tasks in the other process. So I want to write a chapter on the concurrent programming in Pharo, but is question is: am I missing something? Because this looks quite trivial. Unless you program everything based on callbacks, then even if you fork explicitly (new Processes) or by means of Futures, Promises, etc... at one point you'll have to wait (it is, block) every time you need to update the UI. The good practice is to spend the least time possible running thing in the UI thread. But given the fact the VM is single process in terms of host OS, callbacks won't provide much resilience either. Regards, Esteban A. Maringolo ps: As an concrete example, Android will kill any process taking more than 5 seconds in the main thread. So EVERYTHING except events, painting and layout, must take less than that, and if you do I/O or computation, you have to use threads. Ref: http://developer.android.com/guide/components/processes-and-threads.html

Dec. 2, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Responsible development

by kilon alios

I do feel that this issue fall more under the jurisdiction of Exception Handling, where if something bad happens to your system the whole thing does not collapse on itself but rather reports the error and carries on. Pharo processes are not OS processes, correct me if I am wrong but they dont have their own memory or can get their own core and generally are not separate entities. They are not even real threads. So I doubt how much of a protection they will offer. But agree with your its a design issue that sooner or later will have to be addressed. If the systems is very complex , then later is more likely. On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 3:32 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: > Yes, This is a nice idea, but I was telling about the other thing. Itâs > really simple to start a new process in Pharo. Maybe we should introduce > common practices in pharo? When I was following Obj-C course, one of the > fundamental thing that was taught: do time consuming tasks in the other > process. So I want to write a chapter on the concurrent programming in > Pharo, but is question is: am I missing something? Because this looks quite > trivial. > > Uko > > > On 02 Dec 2013, at 14:21, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Sidenote about this. > > > > I don't know about this particular problem you faced with Nautilus. > > But the issue is "unfixable", IMHO, because everything runs in the > > same process. > > > > So there is no way to stop the current active process if it is REALLY > > stuck (100% CPU, 1 CORE). If it gets into an infinite unbreakable > > loop, or indefinitely blocking on I/O, then the entire VM gets > > unresponsive. > > > > For that reason I think that nothing should run in the UI Thread > > (which in Pharo is the main thread), except for event handling and > > rendering. Or... the VM should notice abnormal processes eating a lot > > of resources and warn the user. > > > > That's one nice feature of Smalltalk/X, every windows runs its own > > thread, with its own event queue, etc. You can kill it safely, without > > trowing away the whole image. > > > > Regards! > > > > Esteban A. Maringolo > > > > > > 2013/12/2 Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com>: > >> Hi guys, I have some thoughts about how we develop for Pharo. > >> > >> I was doing something in in Nautilus, and it started rising errors, > which is ok (well, itâs not ok, but this happens during so rapid > development). But then I clicked on something in Nautilus and ended up in > the infinite loop. Shouldnât we develop our tools in a more friendly way? > When my finder freezes I donât have to restart OS X, but when Nautilus > freezes I have to restart Pharo. > >> > >> Uko > > > > >

Dec. 2, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Responsible development

by Esteban A. Maringolo

2013/12/2 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: > yes, tocayo, you are right... but there is a design problem since ever and > fix that will not be easy. > > Also, there is the notion of "main thread" internal to pharo, and the "main > thread" relative to the OS. And AFAIK, the vm runs in the main thread (in > mac there is a line to uncomment for moving out main thread, but they were a > problem with certain callbacks who prevent me to use it... but well, we > should review that too). I know it's not easy, in fact I think it is hard. But I wanted to point this out. :) I barely know about how Windows processes work, so I can't speak about how to do it in Windows, Linux or MacOS. Regards! Esteban A. Maringolo

Dec. 2, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Nautilus Tree

by kilon alios

no its not , this blog post is about extending existing classes with new methods that are stored to other packages instead of creating subclasses. My point is about offering multiple names (not just one) to existing methods and classes, plus tags to further identify the methods so it is much easier to find the method you want or make your code more readable. My approach does not generate new methods, it does not touch existing objects , nor make the system more complicated. I see it more like a database to help you find things. But thanks for the link anyway , now I know how to make extension classes. On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 3:34 PM, <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > kilon alios wrote: > >> >> Lets say you dont like the names used for some classes and methods. Why >> go through the tedious process of subclassing and creating your own methods >> that call superclass methods just so you have better names for those >> methods. Just go in and add new names for those methods, while they keep >> their old ones. Name clashing ? no problemo, use tags as identifiers that >> will help you separate methods with same names. >> > Sounds a bit (but not quite) like package "extensions" per the top half of > [1]. > [1] http://seandenigris.com/blog/?p=1015 > > cheers -ben > > > > > >

Dec. 2, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Nautilus Tree

by btc＠openinworld.com

kilon alios wrote: > > Lets say you dont like the names used for some classes and methods. > Why go through the tedious process of subclassing and creating your > own methods that call superclass methods just so you have better names > for those methods. Just go in and add new names for those methods, > while they keep their old ones. Name clashing ? no problemo, use tags > as identifiers that will help you separate methods with same names. Sounds a bit (but not quite) like package "extensions" per the top half of [1]. [1] http://seandenigris.com/blog/?p=1015 cheers -ben

Dec. 2, 2013