- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo magic

by Sebastian Sastre

Thanks for sharing that Kilon On Dec 6, 2013, at 6:49 PM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Well I tried pharo just for fun , I knew it would not last. Pharo is unpopular, not enough libraries, small community , not nearly enough documentation. Pharo was nothing more than a little break from python. After all we all know smalltalk is dead , right ? The plan was simple, have fun with Pharo , steal some ideas, go back to python where you can get things done. Little did I know. Several months later here I am. I still have not found the reason to give up on Pharo, my questions have been answered , found many great libraries to work with and the documentation is getting better and better. > > Overall my experience is way better than I predicted. Pharo is turning into the environment I always wanted to have. Its so unique that I just cant compare it with anything else, and the uniqueness is not just in details, its almost everywhere. I am so addicted to live coding that I cant see myself going back to the old way. This is the future of coding. > > I only wish the best for Pharo , not for me but for you guys, you work hard for it and you deserve it. Thank you :) > > > > On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 10:33 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Thanks for your warm words (because sometimes I would like so much to improve pharo even more that I'm down). > We have a great team (I do not want to list names because I do not want to forget someone). > > Stef > > > Maybe others noticed the same: > > > > - the numbers of closed issues is amazing(see the news on the homepage) > > - Pharo3.0 is already really usable and a pleasure to work with > > - more and more nice projects appear on STHub and elsewhere > > - more and more Pharo projects use continuous integration > > - most projects and packages are loadable from the config browser and other places without > > conflicting with each other > > - there is so much activity regarding Pharo these days on mailinglists, bug-tracker, > > twitter, conferences, blogs, stackoverflow, github ... it becomes hard to follow > > but this is a good sign > > - I see more and more fixes and improvements already as an update coming in before > > I really realize that an own bug is needed because it improves the situation > > - more and more new names appear on the dev and user mailinglist which is a good > > sign that there is growing interest > > - Pharo is on the right track and I like to be on the train > > > > Step by step it goes... > > > > Bye > > T. > > > > > > > > > > >

Dec. 6, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo magic

by kilon alios

Well I think the secret of success of Pharo with newcomers like me is 3 things a) Documentation b) Documentation c) yes you guessed it Documentation Coming from python I can tell you that the success of python and its a very successful language popularity wise , is the fact that it has simply designed libs and the community highly values documentation. Of course they have a huge community to help out. In python new features that go inside the library are not just libraries that people offer. They make first a pep which is a document that documents the library even before the library is implemented, or the library modified, depending on whether its a modification or a new feature. So documentation exists even before code is written. But of course that applies only for the core development of python standard library and is not binding for external libraries. If the library is external and is to be submitted to the python standard library again a Pep need to be made by the author of the library or another developer carefully documenting the library and its implication usefulness for cpython standard distribution. So nothing goes in if its not documented first. At least as far as I know. all Peps are collected here -> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/. Of course after implementation has finished peps are transformed to official documentation submitted here -> http://www.python.org/doc/ So If I would have something to recommend Pharo to copy from Python would be this. I cant think of a more important feature to have. On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 11:58 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > Thanks indeed. > > Kilon, your experience is valuable for those of us that basically live in > Pharo. So, your input matters more than you think because you can help us > make Pharo more appealing for newcomers. So, if you could change one thing > that would have made the transition to Pharo even smoother, what would it > be? > > Doru > > > On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 10:36 PM, Luc Fabresse <luc.fabresse(a)gmail.com>wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> thanks kilon for sharing your Python experience ;-) >> I really enjoy listening to people that discover Pharo "recently". >> >> Thank you all! >> >> >> >> #Luc >> >> >> 2013/12/6 kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> >> >>> Well I tried pharo just for fun , I knew it would not last. Pharo is >>> unpopular, not enough libraries, small community , not nearly enough >>> documentation. Pharo was nothing more than a little break from python. >>> After all we all know smalltalk is dead , right ? The plan was simple, >>> have fun with Pharo , steal some ideas, go back to python where you can get >>> things done. Little did I know. Several months later here I am. I still >>> have not found the reason to give up on Pharo, my questions have been >>> answered , found many great libraries to work with and the documentation is >>> getting better and better. >>> >>> Overall my experience is way better than I predicted. Pharo is turning >>> into the environment I always wanted to have. Its so unique that I just >>> cant compare it with anything else, and the uniqueness is not just in >>> details, its almost everywhere. I am so addicted to live coding that I cant >>> see myself going back to the old way. This is the future of coding. >>> >>> I only wish the best for Pharo , not for me but for you guys, you work >>> hard for it and you deserve it. Thank you :) >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 10:33 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse < >>> stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks for your warm words (because sometimes I would like so much to >>>> improve pharo even more that I'm down). >>>> We have a great team (I do not want to list names because I do not want >>>> to forget someone). >>>> >>>> Stef >>>> >>>> > Maybe others noticed the same: >>>> > >>>> > - the numbers of closed issues is amazing(see the news on the >>>> homepage) >>>> > - Pharo3.0 is already really usable and a pleasure to work with >>>> > - more and more nice projects appear on STHub and elsewhere >>>> > - more and more Pharo projects use continuous integration >>>> > - most projects and packages are loadable from the config browser and >>>> other places without >>>> > conflicting with each other >>>> > - there is so much activity regarding Pharo these days on >>>> mailinglists, bug-tracker, >>>> > twitter, conferences, blogs, stackoverflow, github ... it becomes >>>> hard to follow >>>> > but this is a good sign >>>> > - I see more and more fixes and improvements already as an update >>>> coming in before >>>> > I really realize that an own bug is needed because it improves the >>>> situation >>>> > - more and more new names appear on the dev and user mailinglist >>>> which is a good >>>> > sign that there is growing interest >>>> > - Pharo is on the right track and I like to be on the train >>>> > >>>> > Step by step it goes... >>>> > >>>> > Bye >>>> > T. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow" >

Dec. 6, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Spy] How to inject code *inside* a method

by Tudor Girba

Me, too! :) Doru On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 9:38 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>wrote: > > âget a copy of the IR tree" > > irMethod := (TestMy>>#test) ir copy. > > > > âget all instance variable access IR instructionsâ > > allIvarAccesses := irMethod allInstructionsMatching: [ :ir |ir > isInstVarAccess]. > > > > âinsert code for â1 haltâ before all of them" > > allIvarAccesses do: [ :each | each addInstructionsBefore: { > IRInstruction pushLiteral: 1. IRInstruction send: #halt. IRInstruction > popTop }]. > > > > âgenerate a new compiledMethod" > > cm := irMethod generate: (TestMy>>#test) trailer. > > > > âinstall in the class" > > TestMy addSelector: #test withMethod: cm. > > > > 17 <76> pushConstant: 1 > > 18 <D0> send: halt > > 19 <87> pop > > 20 <00> pushRcvr: 0 > > 21 <76> pushConstant: 1 > > 22 <B0> send: + > > 23 <76> pushConstant: 1 > > 24 <D0> send: halt > > 25 <87> pop > > 26 <00> pushRcvr: 0 > > 27 <B0> send: + > > 28 <7C> returnTop > > > > > > â> TestMy new test > > > > What is now yet wiring is quick return methods â> need to clear the > primitive in that case, should not be hard to do. > > I love this in 5 lines!!!! > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Dec. 6, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo magic

by Tudor Girba

Thanks indeed. Kilon, your experience is valuable for those of us that basically live in Pharo. So, your input matters more than you think because you can help us make Pharo more appealing for newcomers. So, if you could change one thing that would have made the transition to Pharo even smoother, what would it be? Doru On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 10:36 PM, Luc Fabresse <luc.fabresse(a)gmail.com>wrote: > Hi, > > thanks kilon for sharing your Python experience ;-) > I really enjoy listening to people that discover Pharo "recently". > > Thank you all! > > > > #Luc > > > 2013/12/6 kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> > >> Well I tried pharo just for fun , I knew it would not last. Pharo is >> unpopular, not enough libraries, small community , not nearly enough >> documentation. Pharo was nothing more than a little break from python. >> After all we all know smalltalk is dead , right ? The plan was simple, >> have fun with Pharo , steal some ideas, go back to python where you can get >> things done. Little did I know. Several months later here I am. I still >> have not found the reason to give up on Pharo, my questions have been >> answered , found many great libraries to work with and the documentation is >> getting better and better. >> >> Overall my experience is way better than I predicted. Pharo is turning >> into the environment I always wanted to have. Its so unique that I just >> cant compare it with anything else, and the uniqueness is not just in >> details, its almost everywhere. I am so addicted to live coding that I cant >> see myself going back to the old way. This is the future of coding. >> >> I only wish the best for Pharo , not for me but for you guys, you work >> hard for it and you deserve it. Thank you :) >> >> >> >> On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 10:33 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse < >> stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> >>> Thanks for your warm words (because sometimes I would like so much to >>> improve pharo even more that I'm down). >>> We have a great team (I do not want to list names because I do not want >>> to forget someone). >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> > Maybe others noticed the same: >>> > >>> > - the numbers of closed issues is amazing(see the news on the homepage) >>> > - Pharo3.0 is already really usable and a pleasure to work with >>> > - more and more nice projects appear on STHub and elsewhere >>> > - more and more Pharo projects use continuous integration >>> > - most projects and packages are loadable from the config browser and >>> other places without >>> > conflicting with each other >>> > - there is so much activity regarding Pharo these days on >>> mailinglists, bug-tracker, >>> > twitter, conferences, blogs, stackoverflow, github ... it becomes >>> hard to follow >>> > but this is a good sign >>> > - I see more and more fixes and improvements already as an update >>> coming in before >>> > I really realize that an own bug is needed because it improves the >>> situation >>> > - more and more new names appear on the dev and user mailinglist which >>> is a good >>> > sign that there is growing interest >>> > - Pharo is on the right track and I like to be on the train >>> > >>> > Step by step it goes... >>> > >>> > Bye >>> > T. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> >> > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Dec. 6, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo magic

by Luc Fabresse

Hi, thanks kilon for sharing your Python experience ;-) I really enjoy listening to people that discover Pharo "recently". Thank you all! #Luc 2013/12/6 kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> > Well I tried pharo just for fun , I knew it would not last. Pharo is > unpopular, not enough libraries, small community , not nearly enough > documentation. Pharo was nothing more than a little break from python. > After all we all know smalltalk is dead , right ? The plan was simple, > have fun with Pharo , steal some ideas, go back to python where you can get > things done. Little did I know. Several months later here I am. I still > have not found the reason to give up on Pharo, my questions have been > answered , found many great libraries to work with and the documentation is > getting better and better. > > Overall my experience is way better than I predicted. Pharo is turning > into the environment I always wanted to have. Its so unique that I just > cant compare it with anything else, and the uniqueness is not just in > details, its almost everywhere. I am so addicted to live coding that I cant > see myself going back to the old way. This is the future of coding. > > I only wish the best for Pharo , not for me but for you guys, you work > hard for it and you deserve it. Thank you :) > > > > On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 10:33 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse < > stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > >> Thanks for your warm words (because sometimes I would like so much to >> improve pharo even more that I'm down). >> We have a great team (I do not want to list names because I do not want >> to forget someone). >> >> Stef >> >> > Maybe others noticed the same: >> > >> > - the numbers of closed issues is amazing(see the news on the homepage) >> > - Pharo3.0 is already really usable and a pleasure to work with >> > - more and more nice projects appear on STHub and elsewhere >> > - more and more Pharo projects use continuous integration >> > - most projects and packages are loadable from the config browser and >> other places without >> > conflicting with each other >> > - there is so much activity regarding Pharo these days on mailinglists, >> bug-tracker, >> > twitter, conferences, blogs, stackoverflow, github ... it becomes >> hard to follow >> > but this is a good sign >> > - I see more and more fixes and improvements already as an update >> coming in before >> > I really realize that an own bug is needed because it improves the >> situation >> > - more and more new names appear on the dev and user mailinglist which >> is a good >> > sign that there is growing interest >> > - Pharo is on the right track and I like to be on the train >> > >> > Step by step it goes... >> > >> > Bye >> > T. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >

Dec. 6, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo magic

by kilon alios

Well I tried pharo just for fun , I knew it would not last. Pharo is unpopular, not enough libraries, small community , not nearly enough documentation. Pharo was nothing more than a little break from python. After all we all know smalltalk is dead , right ? The plan was simple, have fun with Pharo , steal some ideas, go back to python where you can get things done. Little did I know. Several months later here I am. I still have not found the reason to give up on Pharo, my questions have been answered , found many great libraries to work with and the documentation is getting better and better. Overall my experience is way better than I predicted. Pharo is turning into the environment I always wanted to have. Its so unique that I just cant compare it with anything else, and the uniqueness is not just in details, its almost everywhere. I am so addicted to live coding that I cant see myself going back to the old way. This is the future of coding. I only wish the best for Pharo , not for me but for you guys, you work hard for it and you deserve it. Thank you :) On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 10:33 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > wrote: > Thanks for your warm words (because sometimes I would like so much to > improve pharo even more that I'm down). > We have a great team (I do not want to list names because I do not want to > forget someone). > > Stef > > > Maybe others noticed the same: > > > > - the numbers of closed issues is amazing(see the news on the homepage) > > - Pharo3.0 is already really usable and a pleasure to work with > > - more and more nice projects appear on STHub and elsewhere > > - more and more Pharo projects use continuous integration > > - most projects and packages are loadable from the config browser and > other places without > > conflicting with each other > > - there is so much activity regarding Pharo these days on mailinglists, > bug-tracker, > > twitter, conferences, blogs, stackoverflow, github ... it becomes hard > to follow > > but this is a good sign > > - I see more and more fixes and improvements already as an update coming > in before > > I really realize that an own bug is needed because it improves the > situation > > - more and more new names appear on the dev and user mailinglist which > is a good > > sign that there is growing interest > > - Pharo is on the right track and I like to be on the train > > > > Step by step it goes... > > > > Bye > > T. > > > > > > > > > > >

Dec. 6, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] help about codeImporter

by Nicolas Cellier

Oh but last time I checked, fileIn were not even using latin1, they were using macRoman! 2013/12/6 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > > On Dec 6, 2013, at 3:15 PM, Nicolas Cellier < > nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > But MC should work better now that sources are UTF8 encoded (for a few > months). > > The problem with old squeak/pharo/MC is that encoding did switch for > iso-8859L1 (latin1) to UTF32 if ever a wide character was encountered... > But this wasn't done properly with the ugly text converters, basicNextPut: > et all, the generated stuff was indeed UTF32, but only N bytes would be > written instead of N characters !!! That means that you only stored (an can > retrieve) first 1/4 of source... > But you can have more luck, because the ugglyness did not stop there: it's > possible that first buffers (4096 bytes) were already sent in latin1 > encoding, and the next ones in UTF32 (with size bug). In which cas you can > retrieve a bit more of your sources. > I have a prototype to decode such messy sources, but did not publish it, > since you can't recover the whole code anyway. > > > arghhhhhhh (deep sounds stef falling from a cliff :) > If somebody has time and knowledge to radically fix that please shot. > > If ever you have problem with recent MC and improper UTF8 please, please > report. > > > For the moment I just have problem with importing old VisualWorks code > into Pharo via fileIn :) > > > > > 2013/12/6 Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> > >> Ben wrote: >> >who put a Ã´ in the code at the first place ? :P >> >> Doesnât happen often, Iâm happy to observe. Strings in code >> with interesting characters are a much more common problem, >> though. Made it impossible to import MCs into Gemstone. >> >> Stephan >> > > >

Dec. 6, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Spy] How to inject code *inside* a method

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> âget a copy of the IR tree" > irMethod := (TestMy>>#test) ir copy. > > âget all instance variable access IR instructionsâ > allIvarAccesses := irMethod allInstructionsMatching: [ :ir |ir isInstVarAccess]. > > âinsert code for â1 haltâ before all of them" > allIvarAccesses do: [ :each | each addInstructionsBefore: { IRInstruction pushLiteral: 1. IRInstruction send: #halt. IRInstruction popTop }]. > > âgenerate a new compiledMethod" > cm := irMethod generate: (TestMy>>#test) trailer. > > âinstall in the class" > TestMy addSelector: #test withMethod: cm. > > 17 <76> pushConstant: 1 > 18 <D0> send: halt > 19 <87> pop > 20 <00> pushRcvr: 0 > 21 <76> pushConstant: 1 > 22 <B0> send: + > 23 <76> pushConstant: 1 > 24 <D0> send: halt > 25 <87> pop > 26 <00> pushRcvr: 0 > 27 <B0> send: + > 28 <7C> returnTop > > > â> TestMy new test > > What is now yet wiring is quick return methods â> need to clear the primitive in that case, should not be hard to do. I love this in 5 lines!!!!

Dec. 6, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] help about codeImporter

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Dec 6, 2013, at 3:15 PM, Nicolas Cellier <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com> wrote: > But MC should work better now that sources are UTF8 encoded (for a few months). > > The problem with old squeak/pharo/MC is that encoding did switch for iso-8859L1 (latin1) to UTF32 if ever a wide character was encountered... > But this wasn't done properly with the ugly text converters, basicNextPut: et all, the generated stuff was indeed UTF32, but only N bytes would be written instead of N characters !!! That means that you only stored (an can retrieve) first 1/4 of source... > But you can have more luck, because the ugglyness did not stop there: it's possible that first buffers (4096 bytes) were already sent in latin1 encoding, and the next ones in UTF32 (with size bug). In which cas you can retrieve a bit more of your sources. > I have a prototype to decode such messy sources, but did not publish it, since you can't recover the whole code anyway. arghhhhhhh (deep sounds stef falling from a cliff :) If somebody has time and knowledge to radically fix that please shot. > If ever you have problem with recent MC and improper UTF8 please, please report. For the moment I just have problem with importing old VisualWorks code into Pharo via fileIn :) > > > > 2013/12/6 Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> > Ben wrote: > >who put a Ã´ in the code at the first place ? :P > > Doesnât happen often, Iâm happy to observe. Strings in code > with interesting characters are a much more common problem, > though. Made it impossible to import MCs into Gemstone. > > Stephan >

Dec. 6, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo magic

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Thanks for your warm words (because sometimes I would like so much to improve pharo even more that I'm down). We have a great team (I do not want to list names because I do not want to forget someone). Stef > Maybe others noticed the same: > > - the numbers of closed issues is amazing(see the news on the homepage) > - Pharo3.0 is already really usable and a pleasure to work with > - more and more nice projects appear on STHub and elsewhere > - more and more Pharo projects use continuous integration > - most projects and packages are loadable from the config browser and other places without > conflicting with each other > - there is so much activity regarding Pharo these days on mailinglists, bug-tracker, > twitter, conferences, blogs, stackoverflow, github ... it becomes hard to follow > but this is a good sign > - I see more and more fixes and improvements already as an update coming in before > I really realize that an own bug is needed because it improves the situation > - more and more new names appear on the dev and user mailinglist which is a good > sign that there is growing interest > - Pharo is on the right track and I like to be on the train > > Step by step it goes... > > Bye > T. > > > >

Dec. 6, 2013