- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Smalltalk in a C World

by Marcus Denker

On 08 Dec 2013, at 21:44, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote: >> Is Smalltalk/MT still "alive"? > > Yes - still alive and kicking. But I'm sure you did not notice since there > are no "big" announcements or advertising for it. For me this is a nice way of saying âits deadâ. > ObjectConnect follows the "time is better invested into technology" strategy. > It is one of the most interesting Smalltalks ever implemented. > > The newest ST/MT 6.3 version (now 64 bit) is from end of November 2013 > and nobody thinks that this needs to be announced? I really do not understand. Marcus

Dec. 8, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Smalltalk in a C World

by Torsten Bergmann

> Is Smalltalk/MT still "alive"? Yes - still alive and kicking. But I'm sure you did not notice since there are no "big" announcements or advertising for it. ObjectConnect follows the "time is better invested into technology" strategy. It is one of the most interesting Smalltalks ever implemented. The newest ST/MT 6.3 version (now 64 bit) is from end of November 2013 Bye T.

Dec. 8, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Smalltalk in a C World

by Esteban A. Maringolo

Is Smalltalk/MT still "alive"? I remember them as the only Smalltalk dialect having in-process COM servers, whilst Dolphin only had out of process. I think they also had realtime and threading features no other Smalltalk, at that time, had. Regards, Esteban A. Maringolo 2013/12/8 Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de>: > Usually plugins for CAD programs have to be running in-process. > Pharo is not (at least not without further work) running in a DLL > as by default it runs as an own OS process. > > There once was a plugin for Netscape and one for IE running > Squeak VM as a in-process plugin in the browser - so its technically possible > but not out of the box. > > If you want to use Smalltalk for extending CAD programs with > a DLL then you should give "Smalltalk/MT" from ObjectConnect a try > as it is able to build DLL's and OCX/ActiveX components and > already provides the native support (Graphics, Debugging, ...) > > Have fun > Torsten > >> Gesendet: Sonntag, 08. Dezember 2013 um 19:20 Uhr >> Von: askoh <askoh(a)askoh.com> >> An: pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org >> Betreff: Re: [Pharo-dev] Smalltalk in a C World >> >> Good that NativeBoost can do what the paper says. How does one debug Pharo >> and NativeBoost working together? Can one step in Pharo, encounter >> NativeBoost code, the step in C and return to Pharo? >> >> I would like to create addins for CAD programs (Windows for now). The CAD >> program starts and calls the addin to be part of the CAD program. User >> interactions within the CAD are passed to the addin which then drives the >> data or display in the CAD. The addin is a separate DLL or EXE but the user >> sees only the CAD with extra capabilities - not as distinct programs. Can >> Pharo make such an addin? >> >> Thanks, >> Aik-Siong Koh >> >> >> >> -- >> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Smalltalk-in-a-C-World-tp4728217p4728573.html >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> >

Dec. 8, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Smalltalk in a C World

by Torsten Bergmann

Usually plugins for CAD programs have to be running in-process. Pharo is not (at least not without further work) running in a DLL as by default it runs as an own OS process. There once was a plugin for Netscape and one for IE running Squeak VM as a in-process plugin in the browser - so its technically possible but not out of the box. If you want to use Smalltalk for extending CAD programs with a DLL then you should give "Smalltalk/MT" from ObjectConnect a try as it is able to build DLL's and OCX/ActiveX components and already provides the native support (Graphics, Debugging, ...) Have fun Torsten > Gesendet: Sonntag, 08. Dezember 2013 um 19:20 Uhr > Von: askoh <askoh(a)askoh.com> > An: pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org > Betreff: Re: [Pharo-dev] Smalltalk in a C World > > Good that NativeBoost can do what the paper says. How does one debug Pharo > and NativeBoost working together? Can one step in Pharo, encounter > NativeBoost code, the step in C and return to Pharo? > > I would like to create addins for CAD programs (Windows for now). The CAD > program starts and calls the addin to be part of the CAD program. User > interactions within the CAD are passed to the addin which then drives the > data or display in the CAD. The addin is a separate DLL or EXE but the user > sees only the CAD with extra capabilities - not as distinct programs. Can > Pharo make such an addin? > > Thanks, > Aik-Siong Koh > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Smalltalk-in-a-C-World-tp4728217p4728573.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >

Dec. 8, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Smalltalk in a C World

by kilon alios

Sort answer is no , Pharo does not try to replace C/C++. CAD plugins are indeed dlls and you will need C/C++ for that. I only Know Free Pascal as another language to generate DLLs but even in that case its extra work. So if you look for the most direct solution then Pharo wont cut it and probably most other programming languages. Theoretically of course its possible , but someone would need to implement this to make it easy to do and currently AFAIK none has. Bare in mind that DLLs are strictly a C/C++ invention and definitely not how highly dynamic languages like Pharo work so there is no direct need for Pharo to do such thing cause it would complicate the workflow. For instance you would not want to create a dll for pharo code when you can have an image and live object that offer far more flexibility of code that can modify itself even on runtime. People choose dynamic languages for the very reason that want to avoid such complications and limitations. If you dont mind workarounds the then answer changes from "no" to "yes". You could of course create a CAD plugin that triggers pharo and pass information to it through sockets , pipes or other ways of application communication. Its a workaround but it works and I have seen it used in 3d apps. For example in blender that support mainly python addons , I know of a python addon (city generator addon) that uses Java libraries. In this case you create a "bridge" between your CAD application and Pharo and you make the two work together. The good news is that if Pharo crashes , it wont crash your CAD app so that a good thing about this workaround. The bad news is that you would be responsible to expose the CAD functionality to Pharo meaning you will have to create a bridge between pharo and CAD. Of course you will need to expose only the functionality that your plugin uses to Pharo so its not as hard as it may sound. To paraphrase a favorite quote "good coders invent , great coders cheat " ;) So yes there definetly many roads that lead to Rome. If you are determined to use Pharo nothing will stop you. About debugging nativeboost of course you can use the pharo debugger because nativeboost commands are fully pharo compliant , meaning they are like everything else, messages and objects. For the machine code generated by nativeboost you can use a C debugger like gdb that could let you disassemble the code to see whats wrong with it. Though usually you will just ask here and Igor that is the expert and creator of nativeboost will reply back. He is very helpful and never turns down a question ;) On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 8:20 PM, askoh <askoh(a)askoh.com> wrote: > Good that NativeBoost can do what the paper says. How does one debug Pharo > and NativeBoost working together? Can one step in Pharo, encounter > NativeBoost code, the step in C and return to Pharo? > > I would like to create addins for CAD programs (Windows for now). The CAD > program starts and calls the addin to be part of the CAD program. User > interactions within the CAD are passed to the addin which then drives the > data or display in the CAD. The addin is a separate DLL or EXE but the user > sees only the CAD with extra capabilities - not as distinct programs. Can > Pharo make such an addin? > > Thanks, > Aik-Siong Koh > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Smalltalk-in-a-C-World-tp4728217p4728573.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > >

Dec. 8, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Searchbar in the browser

by Usman Bhatti

On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 4:41 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>wrote: > > On Dec 8, 2013, at 4:33 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> > wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > You may have noticed that Nautilus now has a search bar next to the list > of packages. I personally find this extremely useful. This is the work of > Juraj and he is interested in hearing your feedback. > > > > The textfield accepts regular expression. It means that entering > âRoassalâ will display all the packages having the word âRoassalâ in it > (e.g., RoassalExtra, ConfigurationOfRoassal). If I enter â^Roassalâ, it > displays all the packages that begin with âRoassalâ. (e.g., RoassalExtra). > > > > Any idea how to make this feature more apparent? Anything else you want > to see with the searching in the browser? > > I would love to have the search bar searching also based on class name > Maybe -Point > could select the package that contains the class Point > -Point* > could select the package that contains the classes *Point* > +1. I could not get used to spotlight search (may be i am too lazy). But this would definitely help and I remember some earlier browser had it, and I used it so often. But then it was removed and I could never get accustomed to the new ways. > > > > Cheers, > > Alexandre > > -- > > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > > > > >

Dec. 8, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Smalltalk in a C World

by askoh

Good that NativeBoost can do what the paper says. How does one debug Pharo and NativeBoost working together? Can one step in Pharo, encounter NativeBoost code, the step in C and return to Pharo? I would like to create addins for CAD programs (Windows for now). The CAD program starts and calls the addin to be part of the CAD program. User interactions within the CAD are passed to the addin which then drives the data or display in the CAD. The addin is a separate DLL or EXE but the user sees only the CAD with extra capabilities - not as distinct programs. Can Pharo make such an addin? Thanks, Aik-Siong Koh -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Smalltalk-in-a-C-World-tp4728217p4728573.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Dec. 8, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Searchbar in the browser

by kilon alios

Emacs employs fuzzy completion. That means that you only have to type a partial match that exists in anywhere in the result or even fragments of a partial match making for very flexible search. For example if I look for "filesystem" and yet I type"systemfile" or "sysfile" or "file-syse" etc, the search will still able to locate the "filesystem" packages and all its classes. I used this completion both for code completion and file path completion , but I am pretty sure it works everywhere inside emacs. That also mean a unified search for everything, classes, methods etc . Without of course ruling out focused search of any kind , regex and existing ways to search in Pharo. But I want to say that I am very happy we have this functionality in pharo. Thank you. On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 7:48 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>wrote: > Another pponit about the search > > it would be good to have the following behavior > I type TOOLS > > I see all the packages with TOOLS > > I select one > > then I removed TOOLS from the search bar > > -> the selected package stays selected > > Stef > >

Dec. 8, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Searchbar in the browser

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Another pponit about the search it would be good to have the following behavior I type TOOLS I see all the packages with TOOLS I select one then I removed TOOLS from the search bar -> the selected package stays selected Stef

Dec. 8, 2013

Re: [Pharo-dev] Searchbar in the browser

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

>>> Hi All, >>> >>> You may have noticed that Nautilus now has a search bar next to the list of packages. I personally find this extremely useful. This is the work of Juraj and he is interested in hearing your feedback. >>> >>> The textfield accepts regular expression. It means that entering âRoassalâ will display all the packages having the word âRoassalâ in it (e.g., RoassalExtra, ConfigurationOfRoassal). If I enter â^Roassalâ, it displays all the packages that begin with âRoassalâ. (e.g., RoassalExtra). >>> >>> Any idea how to make this feature more apparent? Anything else you want to see with the searching in the browser? >> >> I would love to have the search bar searching also based on class name >> Maybe -Point >> could select the package that contains the class Point >> -Point* >> could select the package that contains the classes *Point* > > Sounds interesting but I see difficulties to use it. No one will remember this feature. Even the regular expressions are not apparent and people do not use it (I suppose). Give a try to see. Using the correct ghost text to remember the possibility can help. > What about to have a new search dialog above classes which do this job? > > Thanks, > Jura > > >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Alexandre >>> -- >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > >

Dec. 8, 2013