- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Vm-dev] [squeak-dev] Squeak and Tonel

by Tudor Girba

Gentlemen, I am really sad to read through this animosity. Please, letâs go back to technical discussions. Tudor > On Feb 17, 2019, at 10:46 PM, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Stephane, > > On Sun, Feb 17, 2019 at 1:33 PM StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Eliot > > Contrary to you I do not wish your death. > > "Drop dead" does not mean I want you dead. It is English for "DÃ©gagÃ©". > > So can you respect me? > > No. I do not. I've got to the end of my attempt to deal with your destructive relationships. I am merely one in a long line including Camillo, Cl Ã©ment, and others. > > One reason I can't respe3ct you is that you are not a man of your word. You sent an email 23 minutes ago that proudly declared "This is my last email sent to you.". Well done for keeping your word for 23 minutes. What's your record? > > > > > Stef > >> On 17 Feb 2019, at 22:30, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sun, Feb 17, 2019 at 1:00 PM ducasse <stepharo(a)netcourrier.com> wrote: >> Hi eliot >> >> What is common in your thread is that we always look like the super emotional, or bad guys. >> You never ask yourselves why Esteban left the VM mailing-list. >> >> What is common is that I discuss technical matters (difficulties in using Tonel/git, architectural issues with developing the VM) and organizational issues (Estebans' unhelpful response regarding an option in Tonel) and you immediately personalize, do not bring up a single technical issue, and then make grand pronouncements like :this is the last email I'll send you". Laughable and sad. >> >> >> And I do not see why you cannot fork Tonel to produce your own version. >> Git is about distributed projects. People do that all the time. You can take Tonel and hack it to death >> without having your hacks pushed back into Pharo and this is perfectly ok for us. >> So Esteban has the right to say no and you have the right to hack your own version. >> >> If you want to have some support for porting Scorch/Sista to github and loading you should ask >> but asking it more nicely. >> >> About the simulation of the UI, if you do not talk to us we cannot pay attention. >> I do not see why we cannot keep a package with the image level UI for the simulator. >> Now again you are talking about collaboration but you do not talk to us and you do not >> listen to us so do not expect that people are willing to spend their free time to help. >> >> >>> I had deep concerns that the pursuit of git integration would end up splitting the Pharo and Squeak communities and indeed this is now in progress. I am utterly unmotivated by the lack of cooperation, the sheer arrogance and bullying of those that say "you will move to git/tonel or elseâ, >> >> This is fun to ask Pharo not to grow up to use modern technology to manage source code under the >> premisses that Squeak cannot or will not. >> This is so funny how you state it. I will not comment more than that. >> People around are adults and they will be able to judge by themselves. >> >>> and considering leaving VMMaker altogether. >> >> If you leave VMMaker, let us know because we will port it to Github and make it work in Pharo. >> Esteban did it several times in the past. At least this will have the benefit to clarify the situation. >> >> I think that this is good that you tell us that you do not want to cooperate with us. >> This will have at least the impact to kick our ass and pay attention to us. >> >>> The only things that are keeping me interested are Ron Teitelbaum's Terf and me pursuing a PhD on register allocation in the context of Sista/Scorch with Robert Hirshfeld's group at HPI. >>> >>> Here's the kind of crap people like Ducasse throw at me: >>> >>> "Eliot >>> >>> At the end of the day I will probably ask the two phds that should work on language design to use truffle or pypy >>> because let us face it we cannot work with the Pharo VM. Else we will simply have to fork it (because we do not want to have >>> to jump over cuis, newspeak, squeak code constraints and I do not what) and it will be another drama is in the pico world >>> of the âopenâ smalltalk VM. " >>> >>> I am so over this crap. >> >> This is not a crap. I can restate what I said. Because of responsibility of a research team and creating a future for students. You know Iâm not alone, I have quite some responsibility towards PhD students >> of my group and yes I cannot make them fail by construction (or produce unadequate results) >> just by imposing them to use a system with far too many constraints. >> >> I will not ask them to work on the openSmalltalk vm directly because this is not their responsibilities >> to have to jump over newspeak ifdef and others. A job of a PhD is to be able to brainstorm and create new ideas. Look at Stefan Marr (He is working on SOM or Truffle). >> >> Now you can think that Iâm an asshole, arrogant, or I do not know pick what you want. >> ***I do not care***. I do not have Diva syndrome I have responsibilities towards people. >> >> I was discussing with some truffle experts and they told me that this is can be complex. I believe it. >> I would like to avoid pypy for obvious reasons. So what we will probably do for their PhD is to see if we can use a light version of opensmalltalk. I do not want to ask them to jump over many things that are totally useless for them all the time. >> >> >> PS: personnally I do not get why VMMaker would be the only project on earth that cannot be managed using git and Pharo. >> But for us the future is Git and we will continue to build on this infrastructure. >> >> >> Stef >> >>> >>> _,,,^..^,,,_ >>> best, Eliot >> >> >> >> -- >> _,,,^..^,,,_ >> best, Eliot > > -------------------------------------------- > StÃ©phane Ducasse > http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr > http://www.synectique.eu / http://www.pharo.org > 03 59 35 87 52 > Assistant: Julie Jonas > FAX 03 59 57 78 50 > TEL 03 59 35 86 16 > S. Ducasse - Inria > 40, avenue Halley, > Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza > Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 > France > > > > > -- > _,,,^..^,,,_ > best, Eliot -- www.feenk.com "The coherence of a trip is given by the clearness of the goal."

Feb. 18, 2019

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Ann] TelePharo and PharoThings adopted for Pharo 7

by Denis Kudriashov

Hi Norbert. Ð²Ñ, 17 ÑÐµÐ²Ñ. 2019 Ð³. Ð² 20:41, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name>: > > > > Am 17.02.2019 um 21:03 schrieb Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com>: > > > > Hi. > > > > I released new versions of TelePharo (v0.3.0) and PharoThings (v0.2.3) > adopted for Pharo 7 changes. > > > > PharoThings also includes new features from Alex Oliveira: > > - Raspberry model B3 > > - water alarm example > > And few models of Arduino from @gaterfy. > > Can you elaborate on this? What has an arduino model to do here? > Arduino was always in plan. And one student with nickname @gaterfy did this work few years ago. It is based on Firmata protocol which allows to operate Arduino board remotely using serial port. So Pharo in that case does not run on the board. You connect Arduino to normal machine and use Pharo to play with it using nice live Inspectors showing pin schema. I think it is a good way to learn Arduino. > Norbert > > > > > > Best regards, > > Denis > > >

Feb. 18, 2019

Re: [Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] Squeak and Tonel

by Eliot Miranda

Stephane, On Sun, Feb 17, 2019 at 1:33 PM StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Eliot > > Contrary to you I do not wish your death. > "Drop dead" does not mean I want you dead. It is English for "DÃ©gagÃ©". > So can you respect me? > No. I do not. I've got to the end of my attempt to deal with your destructive relationships. I am merely one in a long line including Camillo, Cl Ã©ment, and others. One reason I can't respe3ct you is that you are not a man of your word. You sent an email 23 minutes ago that proudly declared "This is my last email sent to you.". Well done for keeping your word for 23 minutes. What's your record? > > Stef > > On 17 Feb 2019, at 22:30, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Sun, Feb 17, 2019 at 1:00 PM ducasse <stepharo(a)netcourrier.com> wrote: > >> Hi eliot >> >> What is common in your thread is that we always look like the super >> emotional, or bad guys. >> You never ask yourselves why Esteban left the VM mailing-list. >> > > What is common is that I discuss technical matters (difficulties in using > Tonel/git, architectural issues with developing the VM) and organizational > issues (Estebans' unhelpful response regarding an option in Tonel) and you > immediately personalize, do not bring up a single technical issue, and then > make grand pronouncements like :this is the last email I'll send you". > Laughable and sad. > > >> >> And I do not see why you cannot fork Tonel to produce your own version. >> Git is about distributed projects. People do that all the time. You can >> take Tonel and hack it to death >> without having your hacks pushed back into Pharo and this is perfectly ok >> for us. >> So Esteban has the right to say no and you have the right to hack your >> own version. >> >> If you want to have some support for porting Scorch/Sista to github and >> loading you should ask >> but asking it more nicely. >> >> About the simulation of the UI, if you do not talk to us we cannot pay >> attention. >> I do not see why we cannot keep a package with the image level UI for the >> simulator. >> Now again you are talking about collaboration but you do not talk to us >> and you do not >> listen to us so do not expect that people are willing to spend their free >> time to help. >> >> >> I had deep concerns that the pursuit of git integration would end up >> splitting the Pharo and Squeak communities and indeed this is now in >> progress. I am utterly unmotivated by the lack of cooperation, the sheer >> arrogance and bullying of those that say "you will move to git/tonel or >> elseâ, >> >> >> This is fun to ask Pharo not to grow up to use modern technology to >> manage source code under the >> premisses that Squeak cannot or will not. >> This is so funny how you state it. I will not comment more than that. >> People around are adults and they will be able to judge by themselves. >> >> and considering leaving VMMaker altogether. >> >> >> If you leave VMMaker, let us know because we will port it to Github and >> make it work in Pharo. >> Esteban did it several times in the past. At least this will have the >> benefit to clarify the situation. >> >> I think that this is good that you tell us that you do not want to >> cooperate with us. >> This will have at least the impact to kick our ass and pay attention to >> us. >> >> The only things that are keeping me interested are Ron Teitelbaum's Terf >> and me pursuing a PhD on register allocation in the context of Sista/Scorch >> with Robert Hirshfeld's group at HPI. >> >> Here's the kind of crap people like Ducasse throw at me: >> >> "Eliot >> >> At the end of the day I will probably ask the two phds that should work >> on language design to use truffle or pypy >> because let us face it we cannot work with the Pharo VM. Else we will >> simply have to fork it (because we do not want to have >> to jump over cuis, newspeak, squeak code constraints and I do not what) >> and it will be another drama is in the pico world >> of the âopenâ smalltalk VM. " >> >> I am so over this crap. >> >> >> This is not a crap. I can restate what I said. Because of responsibility >> of a research team and creating a future for students. You know Iâm not >> alone, I have quite some responsibility towards PhD students >> of my group and yes I cannot make them fail by construction (or produce >> unadequate results) >> just by imposing them to use a system with far too many constraints. >> >> I will not ask them to work on the openSmalltalk vm directly because this >> is not their responsibilities >> to have to jump over newspeak ifdef and others. A job of a PhD is to be >> able to brainstorm and create new ideas. Look at Stefan Marr (He is working >> on SOM or Truffle). >> >> Now you can think that Iâm an asshole, arrogant, or I do not know pick >> what you want. >> ***I do not care***. I do not have Diva syndrome I have responsibilities >> towards people. >> >> I was discussing with some truffle experts and they told me that this is >> can be complex. I believe it. >> I would like to avoid pypy for obvious reasons. So what we will probably >> do for their PhD is to see if we can use a light version of opensmalltalk. >> I do not want to ask them to jump over many things that are totally useless >> for them all the time. >> >> >> PS: personnally I do not get why VMMaker would be the only project on >> earth that cannot be managed using git and Pharo. >> But for us the future is Git and we will continue to build on this >> infrastructure. >> >> >> Stef >> >> >> _,,,^..^,,,_ >> best, Eliot >> >> >> > > -- > _,,,^..^,,,_ > best, Eliot > > > -------------------------------------------- > StÃ©phane Ducasse > http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr > http://www.synectique.eu / http://www.pharo.org > 03 59 35 87 52 > Assistant: Julie Jonas > FAX 03 59 57 78 50 > TEL 03 59 35 86 16 > S. Ducasse - Inria > 40, avenue Halley, > Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza > Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 > France > > > -- _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot

Feb. 17, 2019

Re: [Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] Squeak and Tonel

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Eliot Contrary to you I do not wish your death. So can you respect me? Stef > On 17 Feb 2019, at 22:30, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Sun, Feb 17, 2019 at 1:00 PM ducasse <stepharo(a)netcourrier.com <mailto:stepharo@netcourrier.com>> wrote: > Hi eliot > > What is common in your thread is that we always look like the super emotional, or bad guys. > You never ask yourselves why Esteban left the VM mailing-list. > > What is common is that I discuss technical matters (difficulties in using Tonel/git, architectural issues with developing the VM) and organizational issues (Estebans' unhelpful response regarding an option in Tonel) and you immediately personalize, do not bring up a single technical issue, and then make grand pronouncements like :this is the last email I'll send you". Laughable and sad. > > > And I do not see why you cannot fork Tonel to produce your own version. > Git is about distributed projects. People do that all the time. You can take Tonel and hack it to death > without having your hacks pushed back into Pharo and this is perfectly ok for us. > So Esteban has the right to say no and you have the right to hack your own version. > > If you want to have some support for porting Scorch/Sista to github and loading you should ask > but asking it more nicely. > > About the simulation of the UI, if you do not talk to us we cannot pay attention. > I do not see why we cannot keep a package with the image level UI for the simulator. > Now again you are talking about collaboration but you do not talk to us and you do not > listen to us so do not expect that people are willing to spend their free time to help. > > >> I had deep concerns that the pursuit of git integration would end up splitting the Pharo and Squeak communities and indeed this is now in progress. I am utterly unmotivated by the lack of cooperation, the sheer arrogance and bullying of those that say "you will move to git/tonel or elseâ, > > This is fun to ask Pharo not to grow up to use modern technology to manage source code under the > premisses that Squeak cannot or will not. > This is so funny how you state it. I will not comment more than that. > People around are adults and they will be able to judge by themselves. > >> and considering leaving VMMaker altogether. > > If you leave VMMaker, let us know because we will port it to Github and make it work in Pharo. > Esteban did it several times in the past. At least this will have the benefit to clarify the situation. > > I think that this is good that you tell us that you do not want to cooperate with us. > This will have at least the impact to kick our ass and pay attention to us. > >> The only things that are keeping me interested are Ron Teitelbaum's Terf and me pursuing a PhD on register allocation in the context of Sista/Scorch with Robert Hirshfeld's group at HPI. >> >> Here's the kind of crap people like Ducasse throw at me: >> >> "Eliot >> >> At the end of the day I will probably ask the two phds that should work on language design to use truffle or pypy >> because let us face it we cannot work with the Pharo VM. Else we will simply have to fork it (because we do not want to have >> to jump over cuis, newspeak, squeak code constraints and I do not what) and it will be another drama is in the pico world >> of the âopenâ smalltalk VM. " >> >> I am so over this crap. > > This is not a crap. I can restate what I said. Because of responsibility of a research team and creating a future for students. You know Iâm not alone, I have quite some responsibility towards PhD students > of my group and yes I cannot make them fail by construction (or produce unadequate results) > just by imposing them to use a system with far too many constraints. > > I will not ask them to work on the openSmalltalk vm directly because this is not their responsibilities > to have to jump over newspeak ifdef and others. A job of a PhD is to be able to brainstorm and create new ideas. Look at Stefan Marr (He is working on SOM or Truffle). > > Now you can think that Iâm an asshole, arrogant, or I do not know pick what you want. > ***I do not care***. I do not have Diva syndrome I have responsibilities towards people. > > I was discussing with some truffle experts and they told me that this is can be complex. I believe it. > I would like to avoid pypy for obvious reasons. So what we will probably do for their PhD is to see if we can use a light version of opensmalltalk. I do not want to ask them to jump over many things that are totally useless for them all the time. > > > PS: personnally I do not get why VMMaker would be the only project on earth that cannot be managed using git and Pharo. > But for us the future is Git and we will continue to build on this infrastructure. > > > Stef > >> >> _,,,^..^,,,_ >> best, Eliot > > > > -- > _,,,^..^,,,_ > best, Eliot -------------------------------------------- StÃ©phane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr http://www.synectique.eu / http://www.pharo.org 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Julie Jonas FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France

Feb. 17, 2019

Re: [Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] Squeak and Tonel

by Eliot Miranda

On Sun, Feb 17, 2019 at 1:00 PM ducasse <stepharo(a)netcourrier.com> wrote: > Hi eliot > > What is common in your thread is that we always look like the super > emotional, or bad guys. > You never ask yourselves why Esteban left the VM mailing-list. > What is common is that I discuss technical matters (difficulties in using Tonel/git, architectural issues with developing the VM) and organizational issues (Estebans' unhelpful response regarding an option in Tonel) and you immediately personalize, do not bring up a single technical issue, and then make grand pronouncements like :this is the last email I'll send you". Laughable and sad. > > And I do not see why you cannot fork Tonel to produce your own version. > Git is about distributed projects. People do that all the time. You can > take Tonel and hack it to death > without having your hacks pushed back into Pharo and this is perfectly ok > for us. > So Esteban has the right to say no and you have the right to hack your own > version. > > If you want to have some support for porting Scorch/Sista to github and > loading you should ask > but asking it more nicely. > > About the simulation of the UI, if you do not talk to us we cannot pay > attention. > I do not see why we cannot keep a package with the image level UI for the > simulator. > Now again you are talking about collaboration but you do not talk to us > and you do not > listen to us so do not expect that people are willing to spend their free > time to help. > > > I had deep concerns that the pursuit of git integration would end up > splitting the Pharo and Squeak communities and indeed this is now in > progress. I am utterly unmotivated by the lack of cooperation, the sheer > arrogance and bullying of those that say "you will move to git/tonel or > elseâ, > > > This is fun to ask Pharo not to grow up to use modern technology to manage > source code under the > premisses that Squeak cannot or will not. > This is so funny how you state it. I will not comment more than that. > People around are adults and they will be able to judge by themselves. > > and considering leaving VMMaker altogether. > > > If you leave VMMaker, let us know because we will port it to Github and > make it work in Pharo. > Esteban did it several times in the past. At least this will have the > benefit to clarify the situation. > > I think that this is good that you tell us that you do not want to > cooperate with us. > This will have at least the impact to kick our ass and pay attention to > us. > > The only things that are keeping me interested are Ron Teitelbaum's Terf > and me pursuing a PhD on register allocation in the context of Sista/Scorch > with Robert Hirshfeld's group at HPI. > > Here's the kind of crap people like Ducasse throw at me: > > "Eliot > > At the end of the day I will probably ask the two phds that should work on language > design to use truffle or pypy > because let us face it we cannot work with the Pharo VM. Else we will > simply have to fork it (because we do not want to have > to jump over cuis, newspeak, squeak code constraints and I do not what) > and it will be another drama is in the pico world > of the âopenâ smalltalk VM. " > > I am so over this crap. > > > This is not a crap. I can restate what I said. Because of responsibility > of a research team and creating a future for students. You know Iâm not > alone, I have quite some responsibility towards PhD students > of my group and yes I cannot make them fail by construction (or produce > unadequate results) > just by imposing them to use a system with far too many constraints. > > I will not ask them to work on the openSmalltalk vm directly because this > is not their responsibilities > to have to jump over newspeak ifdef and others. A job of a PhD is to be > able to brainstorm and create new ideas. Look at Stefan Marr (He is working > on SOM or Truffle). > > Now you can think that Iâm an asshole, arrogant, or I do not know pick > what you want. > ***I do not care***. I do not have Diva syndrome I have responsibilities > towards people. > > I was discussing with some truffle experts and they told me that this is > can be complex. I believe it. > I would like to avoid pypy for obvious reasons. So what we will probably > do for their PhD is to see if we can use a light version of opensmalltalk. > I do not want to ask them to jump over many things that are totally useless > for them all the time. > > > PS: personnally I do not get why VMMaker would be the only project on > earth that cannot be managed using git and Pharo. > But for us the future is Git and we will continue to build on this > infrastructure. > > > Stef > > > _,,,^..^,,,_ > best, Eliot > > > -- _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot

Feb. 17, 2019

Re: [Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] Squeak and Tonel

by Eliot Miranda

On Sun, Feb 17, 2019 at 1:22 PM ducasse <stepharo(a)netcourrier.com> wrote: > BTW Eliot, I just discovered by accident emails you sent me last week > there are full on insults . I will not forward them in this mailing-list > because it does not help. > This is not the first that you do that to me. The first time I went over > them and supported > ClÃ©ment to work with you. Now I will not consider your mails anymore. > > Sorry but you cannot talk publicly about collaboration and privately > insult people that way. > > Now if you believe that I do pharo about ego then you do not understand > anything :) > And I will not try to convince you otherwise. This is my last email sent > to you. > Thank god for that. > > Stef > > On 17 Feb 2019, at 21:59, ducasse <stepharo(a)netcourrier.com> wrote: > > Hi eliot > > What is common in your thread is that we always look like the super > emotional, or bad guys. > You never ask yourselves why Esteban left the VM mailing-list. > > And I do not see why you cannot fork Tonel to produce your own version. > Git is about distributed projects. People do that all the time. You can > take Tonel and hack it to death > without having your hacks pushed back into Pharo and this is perfectly ok > for us. > So Esteban has the right to say no and you have the right to hack your own > version. > > If you want to have some support for porting Scorch/Sista to github and > loading you should ask > but asking it more nicely. > > About the simulation of the UI, if you do not talk to us we cannot pay > attention. > I do not see why we cannot keep a package with the image level UI for the > simulator. > Now again you are talking about collaboration but you do not talk to us > and you do not > listen to us so do not expect that people are willing to spend their free > time to help. > > > I had deep concerns that the pursuit of git integration would end up > splitting the Pharo and Squeak communities and indeed this is now in > progress. I am utterly unmotivated by the lack of cooperation, the sheer > arrogance and bullying of those that say "you will move to git/tonel or > elseâ, > > > This is fun to ask Pharo not to grow up to use modern technology to manage > source code under the > premisses that Squeak cannot or will not. > This is so funny how you state it. I will not comment more than that. > People around are adults and they will be able to judge by themselves. > > and considering leaving VMMaker altogether. > > > If you leave VMMaker, let us know because we will port it to Github and > make it work in Pharo. > Esteban did it several times in the past. At least this will have the > benefit to clarify the situation. > > I think that this is good that you tell us that you do not want to > cooperate with us. > This will have at least the impact to kick our ass and pay attention to > us. > > The only things that are keeping me interested are Ron Teitelbaum's Terf > and me pursuing a PhD on register allocation in the context of Sista/Scorch > with Robert Hirshfeld's group at HPI. > > Here's the kind of crap people like Ducasse throw at me: > > "Eliot > > At the end of the day I will probably ask the two phds that should work on language > design to use truffle or pypy > because let us face it we cannot work with the Pharo VM. Else we will > simply have to fork it (because we do not want to have > to jump over cuis, newspeak, squeak code constraints and I do not what) > and it will be another drama is in the pico world > of the âopenâ smalltalk VM. " > > I am so over this crap. > > > This is not a crap. I can restate what I said. Because of responsibility > of a research team and creating a future for students. You know Iâm not > alone, I have quite some responsibility towards PhD students > of my group and yes I cannot make them fail by construction (or produce > unadequate results) > just by imposing them to use a system with far too many constraints. > > I will not ask them to work on the openSmalltalk vm directly because this > is not their responsibilities > to have to jump over newspeak ifdef and others. A job of a PhD is to be > able to brainstorm and create new ideas. Look at Stefan Marr (He is working > on SOM or Truffle). > > Now you can think that Iâm an asshole, arrogant, or I do not know pick > what you want. > ***I do not care***. I do not have Diva syndrome I have responsibilities > towards people. > > I was discussing with some truffle experts and they told me that this is > can be complex. I believe it. > I would like to avoid pypy for obvious reasons. So what we will probably > do for their PhD is to see if we can use a light version of opensmalltalk. > I do not want to ask them to jump over many things that are totally useless > for them all the time. > > > PS: personnally I do not get why VMMaker would be the only project on > earth that cannot be managed using git and Pharo. > But for us the future is Git and we will continue to build on this > infrastructure. > > > Stef > > > _,,,^..^,,,_ > best, Eliot > > > -- _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot

Feb. 17, 2019

Re: [Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] Squeak and Tonel

by ducasse

BTW Eliot, I just discovered by accident emails you sent me last week there are full on insults . I will not forward them in this mailing-list because it does not help. This is not the first that you do that to me. The first time I went over them and supported ClÃ©ment to work with you. Now I will not consider your mails anymore. Sorry but you cannot talk publicly about collaboration and privately insult people that way. Now if you believe that I do pharo about ego then you do not understand anything :) And I will not try to convince you otherwise. This is my last email sent to you. Stef > On 17 Feb 2019, at 21:59, ducasse <stepharo(a)netcourrier.com> wrote: > > Hi eliot > > What is common in your thread is that we always look like the super emotional, or bad guys. > You never ask yourselves why Esteban left the VM mailing-list. > > And I do not see why you cannot fork Tonel to produce your own version. > Git is about distributed projects. People do that all the time. You can take Tonel and hack it to death > without having your hacks pushed back into Pharo and this is perfectly ok for us. > So Esteban has the right to say no and you have the right to hack your own version. > > If you want to have some support for porting Scorch/Sista to github and loading you should ask > but asking it more nicely. > > About the simulation of the UI, if you do not talk to us we cannot pay attention. > I do not see why we cannot keep a package with the image level UI for the simulator. > Now again you are talking about collaboration but you do not talk to us and you do not > listen to us so do not expect that people are willing to spend their free time to help. > > >> I had deep concerns that the pursuit of git integration would end up splitting the Pharo and Squeak communities and indeed this is now in progress. I am utterly unmotivated by the lack of cooperation, the sheer arrogance and bullying of those that say "you will move to git/tonel or elseâ, > > This is fun to ask Pharo not to grow up to use modern technology to manage source code under the > premisses that Squeak cannot or will not. > This is so funny how you state it. I will not comment more than that. > People around are adults and they will be able to judge by themselves. > >> and considering leaving VMMaker altogether. > > If you leave VMMaker, let us know because we will port it to Github and make it work in Pharo. > Esteban did it several times in the past. At least this will have the benefit to clarify the situation. > > I think that this is good that you tell us that you do not want to cooperate with us. > This will have at least the impact to kick our ass and pay attention to us. > >> The only things that are keeping me interested are Ron Teitelbaum's Terf and me pursuing a PhD on register allocation in the context of Sista/Scorch with Robert Hirshfeld's group at HPI. >> >> Here's the kind of crap people like Ducasse throw at me: >> >> "Eliot >> >> At the end of the day I will probably ask the two phds that should work on language design to use truffle or pypy >> because let us face it we cannot work with the Pharo VM. Else we will simply have to fork it (because we do not want to have >> to jump over cuis, newspeak, squeak code constraints and I do not what) and it will be another drama is in the pico world >> of the âopenâ smalltalk VM. " >> >> I am so over this crap. > > This is not a crap. I can restate what I said. Because of responsibility of a research team and creating a future for students. You know Iâm not alone, I have quite some responsibility towards PhD students > of my group and yes I cannot make them fail by construction (or produce unadequate results) > just by imposing them to use a system with far too many constraints. > > I will not ask them to work on the openSmalltalk vm directly because this is not their responsibilities > to have to jump over newspeak ifdef and others. A job of a PhD is to be able to brainstorm and create new ideas. Look at Stefan Marr (He is working on SOM or Truffle). > > Now you can think that Iâm an asshole, arrogant, or I do not know pick what you want. > ***I do not care***. I do not have Diva syndrome I have responsibilities towards people. > > I was discussing with some truffle experts and they told me that this is can be complex. I believe it. > I would like to avoid pypy for obvious reasons. So what we will probably do for their PhD is to see if we can use a light version of opensmalltalk. I do not want to ask them to jump over many things that are totally useless for them all the time. > > > PS: personnally I do not get why VMMaker would be the only project on earth that cannot be managed using git and Pharo. > But for us the future is Git and we will continue to build on this infrastructure. > > > Stef > >> >> _,,,^..^,,,_ >> best, Eliot

Feb. 17, 2019

[Pharo 8.0] Build #86: 2579-Update-deleteAll-comments

by ci-pharo-ci-jenkins2＠inria.fr

There is a new Pharo build available! The status of the build #86 was: FAILURE. The Pull Request #2580 was integrated: "2579-Update-deleteAll-comments" Pull request url: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo/pull/2580 Issue Url: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/2579 Build Url: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/job/Test%20pending%20pull%20request%2…

Feb. 17, 2019

Re: [Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] Squeak and Tonel

by ducasse

Hi eliot What is common in your thread is that we always look like the super emotional, or bad guys. You never ask yourselves why Esteban left the VM mailing-list. And I do not see why you cannot fork Tonel to produce your own version. Git is about distributed projects. People do that all the time. You can take Tonel and hack it to death without having your hacks pushed back into Pharo and this is perfectly ok for us. So Esteban has the right to say no and you have the right to hack your own version. If you want to have some support for porting Scorch/Sista to github and loading you should ask but asking it more nicely. About the simulation of the UI, if you do not talk to us we cannot pay attention. I do not see why we cannot keep a package with the image level UI for the simulator. Now again you are talking about collaboration but you do not talk to us and you do not listen to us so do not expect that people are willing to spend their free time to help. > I had deep concerns that the pursuit of git integration would end up splitting the Pharo and Squeak communities and indeed this is now in progress. I am utterly unmotivated by the lack of cooperation, the sheer arrogance and bullying of those that say "you will move to git/tonel or elseâ, This is fun to ask Pharo not to grow up to use modern technology to manage source code under the premisses that Squeak cannot or will not. This is so funny how you state it. I will not comment more than that. People around are adults and they will be able to judge by themselves. > and considering leaving VMMaker altogether. If you leave VMMaker, let us know because we will port it to Github and make it work in Pharo. Esteban did it several times in the past. At least this will have the benefit to clarify the situation. I think that this is good that you tell us that you do not want to cooperate with us. This will have at least the impact to kick our ass and pay attention to us. > The only things that are keeping me interested are Ron Teitelbaum's Terf and me pursuing a PhD on register allocation in the context of Sista/Scorch with Robert Hirshfeld's group at HPI. > > Here's the kind of crap people like Ducasse throw at me: > > "Eliot > > At the end of the day I will probably ask the two phds that should work on language design to use truffle or pypy > because let us face it we cannot work with the Pharo VM. Else we will simply have to fork it (because we do not want to have > to jump over cuis, newspeak, squeak code constraints and I do not what) and it will be another drama is in the pico world > of the âopenâ smalltalk VM. " > > I am so over this crap. This is not a crap. I can restate what I said. Because of responsibility of a research team and creating a future for students. You know Iâm not alone, I have quite some responsibility towards PhD students of my group and yes I cannot make them fail by construction (or produce unadequate results) just by imposing them to use a system with far too many constraints. I will not ask them to work on the openSmalltalk vm directly because this is not their responsibilities to have to jump over newspeak ifdef and others. A job of a PhD is to be able to brainstorm and create new ideas. Look at Stefan Marr (He is working on SOM or Truffle). Now you can think that Iâm an asshole, arrogant, or I do not know pick what you want. ***I do not care***. I do not have Diva syndrome I have responsibilities towards people. I was discussing with some truffle experts and they told me that this is can be complex. I believe it. I would like to avoid pypy for obvious reasons. So what we will probably do for their PhD is to see if we can use a light version of opensmalltalk. I do not want to ask them to jump over many things that are totally useless for them all the time. PS: personnally I do not get why VMMaker would be the only project on earth that cannot be managed using git and Pharo. But for us the future is Git and we will continue to build on this infrastructure. Stef > > _,,,^..^,,,_ > best, Eliot

Feb. 17, 2019

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Ann] TelePharo and PharoThings adopted for Pharo 7

by Norbert Hartl

> Am 17.02.2019 um 21:03 schrieb Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com>: > > Hi. > > I released new versions of TelePharo (v0.3.0) and PharoThings (v0.2.3) adopted for Pharo 7 changes. > > PharoThings also includes new features from Alex Oliveira: > - Raspberry model B3 > - water alarm example > And few models of Arduino from @gaterfy. Can you elaborate on this? What has an arduino model to do here? Norbert > > Best regards, > Denis

Feb. 17, 2019