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Re: [Pharo-dev] subscript out of bounds in protocol creation

by Andreas Wacknitz

Hi Jordi and all, here is my detailed receipt with a freshly downloaded 30733.zip from Pharo files: 1. Open Nautilus 2. Select an arbitrary package 3. Select an arbitrary class from that package 4. Right-click in the methods panel and select âAdd protocolâ¦â from the popup menu. 5. Enter âprivateâ in the dialog without selecting any entry in the listbox on top. 6. Hit âenterâ or press âOKâ with a left-click. -> Bummer! A cascade of 3 "SubscriptOutOfBounce: 1â pre-debuggers. Regards, Andreas Am 01.02.2014 um 11:46 schrieb Jordi Delgado <jdelgado(a)lsi.upc.edu>: > Hi, > > With a fresh image, I do that with a class randomly selected > (obviously, with no class selected nothing happens) and the > protocol gets added without problems. Then, I choose another class, > again I pick a random one, and after doing exactly the same the > error appears. Why? No clue. > > I said that the error is difficult to reproduce because sometimes > it appears, and sometimes not. And I am not able to ascertain the > circumstances under which it will pop up. > > Bests, > > Jordi > > > > >> Hi, >> >> Am 31.01.2014 um 08:36 schrieb Jordi Delgado <jdelgado(a)lsi.upc.edu>: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I realized that sometimes, when creating new protocols, it appears an >>> error "subscript out of bounds: 1". I have not been able -yet- >>> to reproduce it from a clean image, but it happens often (at least >>> to me). It seems to me that it has something to do with protocol >>> creation before any method has been written, but I am still investigating. >>> >> I guess I can produce this easily :-) >> Just hit âAdd protocolâ¦â in the popup menu of the method protocol pane. >> Enter a name like âprivateâ in the dialog. And then press enter without selecting anything in the listbox above. >> And voilÃ â¦ >> >> Regards, >> Andreas >> >> >> >

Feb. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] subscript out of bounds in protocol creation

by Jordi Delgado

Hi, With a fresh image, I do that with a class randomly selected (obviously, with no class selected nothing happens) and the protocol gets added without problems. Then, I choose another class, again I pick a random one, and after doing exactly the same the error appears. Why? No clue. I said that the error is difficult to reproduce because sometimes it appears, and sometimes not. And I am not able to ascertain the circumstances under which it will pop up. Bests, Jordi > Hi, > > Am 31.01.2014 um 08:36 schrieb Jordi Delgado <jdelgado(a)lsi.upc.edu>: > > > Hi, > > > > I realized that sometimes, when creating new protocols, it appears an > > error "subscript out of bounds: 1". I have not been able -yet- > > to reproduce it from a clean image, but it happens often (at least > > to me). It seems to me that it has something to do with protocol > > creation before any method has been written, but I am still investigating. > > > I guess I can produce this easily :-) > Just hit ÂAdd protocolÂÂ in the popup menu of the method protocol pane. > Enter a name like ÂprivateÂ in the dialog. And then press enter without selecting anything in the listbox above. > And voilÃ Â > > Regards, > Andreas > > >

Feb. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] poolDictionaries removal breaks my projects

by Andreas Wacknitz

Am 31.01.2014 um 20:50 schrieb Pharo4Stef <pharo4Stef(a)free.fr>: > > >>> Hi Torsten, >>> >>> I think it is a design decision / tradeoff, and therefore there is no fundamentally "right way" to do it. For me, it is the same case as the uses: message for Traits. It's not in the template by default because it is used very infrequently. So for language simplicity it should not be there. For me, simplicity is one of the core points of Smalltalk so this is why I feel strongly about it. >> >> I donât see how this change make Smalltalk (the language) simpler. For me this change looks more like an obfuscation than a simplification. > > How many lectures did you give? It is annoying to have to explain something that usually people do not need to know. I donât give any lectures to students but I often try to âteachâ Smalltalk to some of my colleagues and friends. And with that I have hard times. Typically âexperiencedâ software developers think about themselves as being experts in object orientation and programming languages, even if they have only experiences with C, C# and C++. âTeachingâ them about Smalltalkâs idea of object orientation is VERY hard, almost impossible because they already know everything (read: they are ignorant) and lazy. I guess there are some similarities to students. So, no I donât teach but have my own problems ;-) > >>> When I say "very infrequently", this is of course a fuzzy metric, I know. And I understand that you do not agree with this design decision. >>> >>> But on the other hand, I don't think that it is too hard to remember where to add the pooldictionaries: line if you need it, and the old message with this line still works, so all old examples still work. >> >> How should newcomers know how to enter pool dictionaries? I rarely use pool dictionaries and if I will need it I surely have forgotten about >> this change and expect irritation and frustration. > > Newcomers do not use pooldictionaries. In 10 years smalltalking I used them twice. Newcomers donât use a lot of things but that should not be a reason to hide them. In my experience newcomers need guidance and rules but âoldtimersâ need freedom. This is one of the reasons I really enjoy dynamic typing and Smalltalk. I donât like to obey to artificial rules that only put permanent burden to me in order to protect me from something I might do wrong sometimes. At the moment I am considering pool dictionaries for a solution of a problem at hand: I need to collect some information (warnings, errors, and reports) over lots of related and unrelated classes. For the moment I have parameters, but that is getting inconvenient with a growing number of things to collectâ¦ So, if you need something it should be there and not necessarily obscured and hidden! >> >> So, a -1 for this change from my side. > > We just need a full class template menu item. Yes, but itâs not there yet but this change already took away some power without giving me back something in exchange! I am able to ignore some parts of class creation message easily (I also donât use class variables that often) and I donât see why students shouldnât be able, too. Quite contrary I think if you hide these things from students they wonât see it, wonât get curious and in the end will only learn the boring parts of Smalltalkâ¦ Regards, Andreas

Feb. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] poolDictionaries removal breaks my projects

by GOUBIER Thierry

Let's make Nautilus menu longer with a full class template ! -1, Honestly Shortening the default class description is also painfull when you port code, because it makes the class appear different (description with and without pool dictionaries) in the change sorter. I wrote a pac change reader to port SmaCC from Dolphin to Pharo, and, really, this kind of change makes that unusable. In short, make that change correctly: at the Nautilus level. It's a GUI issue, not a language issue. Just go your average GUI approach : a wizard for creating classes, with at least ten "Next" to go through for each class creation ;) As an aside: I suspect there are others low-levels Smalltalk langage features that we feel engaged to change or hack them because they appear straight through the GUI, instead of being mapped to whatever flavor of the day in the GUI. A list of recent changes which do belong to that: The all protocol. A special AST node type for #subclass:instanceVariables:... Some of RPackage features and requests (which, I think, have the nice side effect of making RPackage harder to implement) Thierry ________________________________________ De : Pharo-dev [pharo-dev-bounces(a)lists.pharo.org] de la part de Pharo4Stef [pharo4Stef(a)free.fr] Date d'envoi : vendredi 31 janvier 2014 20:50 Ã : Pharo Development List Objet : Re: [Pharo-dev] poolDictionaries removal breaks my projects >> Hi Torsten, >> >> I think it is a design decision / tradeoff, and therefore there is no fundamentally "right way" to do it. For me, it is the same case as the uses: message for Traits. It's not in the template by default because it is used very infrequently. So for language simplicity it should not be there. For me, simplicity is one of the core points of Smalltalk so this is why I feel strongly about it. > > I donât see how this change make Smalltalk (the language) simpler. For me this change looks more like an obfuscation than a simplification. How many lectures did you give? It is annoying to have to explain something that usually people do not need to know. >> When I say "very infrequently", this is of course a fuzzy metric, I know. And I understand that you do not agree with this design decision. >> >> But on the other hand, I don't think that it is too hard to remember where to add the pooldictionaries: line if you need it, and the old message with this line still works, so all old examples still work. > > How should newcomers know how to enter pool dictionaries? I rarely use pool dictionaries and if I will need it I surely have forgotten about > this change and expect irritation and frustration. Newcomers do not use pooldictionaries. In 10 years smalltalking I used them twice. > > So, a -1 for this change from my side. We just need a full class template menu item.

Feb. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] lookInGeneralPreferencesFolder

by Pharo4Stef

can you provide a reproducible case and a trace? On 31 Jan 2014, at 23:28, Sebastian Sastre <sebastian(a)flowingconcept.com> wrote: > Hi guys, > > that method is raising an exception when moving the image from one OS to other > > > > > >

Feb. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] poolDictionaries removal breaks my projects

by Pharo4Stef

@ Igor I guess that I know pretty well poolDictionaries I do not need an explanation. I even found bugs in the previous lookup and now we have recompilation bugs when changing pools. Now how many times gave one lectures to newcomers? Why do we have new calling initialize? Because after first lecture we HAD to explain metaclasses. Do we want to continue to stay a close club of smart asses? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO NOT ME at least @others Now people hear me well: you are ready to hear well. Lower the music WE WILL change the class definition in Pharo 4 because we want slots. So be prepared. This is not because you did not read nor type this class definition since years (because you do not even look at it) that - it will not change - students do not get overhelmed with it. I DO NOT WANT MY SONS TO PROGRAM IN PYTHON/RUBY/JS BECAUSE THIS IS âEASIERâ. Is it clear? It is BORING to have to say to kids: - do not care of classvar - do not care of pooldictionaries COME ON when can we open our eyes? So yes Iâmad at the lack of vision **you** have. But do not worry I have the vision for Pharo. If you do not like it, I cannot do much for you. Continue rambling how cool was smalltalk 30 years ago. Not me. We are INVENTING the future here. So please focus your energy on how to make pharo simpler, nicer and sexier. Stef > Guys, can you explain me, why you hating pools so much? > Because you cannot find good use of them, or because you don't know how to properly use them? Or because you don't understand what is it? > > Pool dictionary is just a namespace, which you can share among different parts of your code (on a per-class basis). > And one of most used form of it is a global one, where all public classes are. > The only difference is that access to global pool is implicit (you don't have to mention it in class definition), but it has same nature as shared pool. > > As long as you need to give names to things you using, you gonna need namespaces/pools. > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko.

Feb. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Yet another week of commits

by Pharo4Stef

So it looks like a useful service :) > Websense categorizes "association.pharo.org" as "sex". > > > On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 10:56 AM, Pharo4Stef <pharo4Stef(a)free.fr> wrote: > Another week of improvements > > http://association.pharo.org/web/weekly/Commits-Jan-3 > > stef >

Feb. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] poolDictionaries removal breaks my projects

by Igor Stasenko

Guys, can you explain me, why you hating pools so much? Because you cannot find good use of them, or because you don't know how to properly use them? Or because you don't understand what is it? Pool dictionary is just a namespace, which you can share among different parts of your code (on a per-class basis). And one of most used form of it is a global one, where all public classes are. The only difference is that access to global pool is implicit (you don't have to mention it in class definition), but it has same nature as shared pool. As long as you need to give names to things you using, you gonna need namespaces/pools. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Feb. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] poolDictionaries removal breaks my projects

by Igor Stasenko

On 31 January 2014 18:03, Andreas Wacknitz <a.wacknitz(a)gmx.de> wrote: > > Am 31.01.2014 um 14:40 schrieb Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl>: > > > Hi Torsten, > > > > I think it is a design decision / tradeoff, and therefore there is no > fundamentally "right way" to do it. For me, it is the same case as the > uses: message for Traits. It's not in the template by default because it is > used very infrequently. So for language simplicity it should not be there. > For me, simplicity is one of the core points of Smalltalk so this is why I > feel strongly about it. > > I donât see how this change make Smalltalk (the language) simpler. For me > this change looks more like an obfuscation than a simplification. > > +1 > > > > > When I say "very infrequently", this is of course a fuzzy metric, I > know. And I understand that you do not agree with this design decision. > > > > But on the other hand, I don't think that it is too hard to remember > where to add the pooldictionaries: line if you need it, and the old message > with this line still works, so all old examples still work. > > How should newcomers know how to enter pool dictionaries? I rarely use > pool dictionaries and if I will need it I surely have forgotten about > this change and expect irritation and frustration. > > So, a -1 for this change from my side. > > +1 > Regards > Andreas > > > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Feb. 1, 2014

[launcher] Windows Installer UAC Virtualization problems

by btc＠openinworld.com

Damien Cassou wrote in "[Pharo-dev] [FEEDBACK] Install Pharo on Windows": > Hi, > > I've just made an executable file for installing Pharo on Windows (in > program files, with a shortcut in the Start menu...). Please try > it and report problems: > > https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/PharoLauncher-Win-Package/lastSu… > > Best, > > Just reporting a very strange experience. A while ago I installed Pharo Launcher using the Windows Installer and its been working great. In the meantime I have dropped into development mode and opened a few other windows. Calling that one Image-A, today I wanted to throw away my changes, so from folder "C:\Program Files (x86)\Pharo\" I deleted files pharo.{image,changes} and dropped in files pharolauncher.{image,changes}. now with a single image in the oflder I expected it to just start up, but strangely I get presented with a file-choice-dialog on folder "C:\Program Files (x86)\Pharo\" showing pharo.image and pharolauncher.image to choose between, even though Windows Explorer shows pharo.image does not exist. So I renamed pharolauncher.image to pharo.image, and the file-choice-dialog stops coming up, but it the old pharo.image that is still opening. Now the REALLY weird thing to keep in mind as I describe below a few things I've tried, is that the native window title bar _always_ shows "Pharo! (C:\Program Files (x86)\Pharo\Pharo.image" I have tried: * a. Re-rerunning the PharoLauncher installer * b. Running the PharoLauncher un-install, then re-running the installer. * c. Starting from the Windows Start menu * d. Double-clicking file "pharo.exe" in folder "C:\Program Files (x86)\Pharo\" * e. Dragging file "pharo.image" on top of file "pharo.exe" * f. Deleting file "pharo.image" from folder "C:\Program Files (x86)\Pharo\" - but double-clicking "pharo.exe" still starts * g. Manually deleting whole folder "C:\Program Files (x86)\Pharo\" then re-running the installer. * h. When saving the image, the date on "C:\Program Files (x86)\Pharo\pharo.image" is not being updated. * i. Evaluating FileSystem workingDirectory --> "FileSystem workingDirectory" * j. After the folder "C:\Program Files (x86)\Pharo\" to "C:\temp\Pharo\" then double-slicking on Pharo.exe opens the fresh pharo.image as expected. * k. Re-running the installer but using a different folder "C:\Program Files (x86)\Pharo3\" works. Its been a frustratingly surreal experience to investigate, for a while not even believing what I was seeing. Now I operate under a non-admin account (as should anyone with the smallest belief in security [1]) and rely on UAC to elevate privileges during an install. So the problem turned out to be with Microsoft's SILENT file virtualization. I found an echo of the install in folder "C:\Users\Ben\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files (x86)\Pharo\". Deleting that folder resolved the shallow-problem, such the fresh install was now running as expected. However the deeper-problem is that this is likely to frustrate others in the future - particularly in a corporate setting trying to update PharoLauncher fighting multiple user's virtualized copies. So far it seems the options are: 1. Add a manifest to the installer such that UAC virtualization is turned off (per Task #5 [3]). Saving the image will now fail but avoid submarine problems later on. Can the VM be told the image is read-only and Save is disabled. Or if a save fails, could is fall back to the Save As defaulting to the folder where PharoLauncher is managing its other images. There might be other issues to deal with the files Pharo.ini, stderr & stdout being prevented from being written to in the normal course of operation. 2. Install "User Only" per [4]. This is probably easiest to do this close to Pharo 3 release. [1] http://blogs.msdn.com/b/aaron_margosis/archive/2004/06/17/157962.aspx [2] https://blogs.windows.com/windows/archive/b/developers/archive/2009/08/04/u… [3] http://www.klopfenstein.net/lorenz.aspx/simple-nsis-installer-with-user-exe… [4] http://www.klopfenstein.net/lorenz.aspx/simple-nsis-installer-with-user-exe… cheer -ben

Feb. 1, 2014