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Re: [Pharo-dev] poolDictionaries removal breaks my projects

by Sebastian Sastre

On Feb 1, 2014, at 8:09 AM, Pharo4Stef <pharo4Stef(a)free.fr> wrote: > > WE WILL change the class definition in Pharo 4 because we want slots. > So be prepared. If by slots you mean this: http://forum.world.st/Slot-class-builder-Anonymous-class-modification-td472… It sounds good. It seems to make possible to have a cleaner thing AND add conveniences for power users So this early clean up was just anxiety, it shouldnât have happen because is noise. It adds a problem without the benefits. Slots sounds like the real deal

Feb. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] R: poolDictionaries removal breaks my projects

by Sebastian Sastre

On Feb 1, 2014, at 10:41 AM, Lorenzo Schiavina <lorenzo(a)edor.it> wrote: > Just the same in all the world! What do you mean Lorenzo? care to elaborate so your comment adds something? thanks

Feb. 1, 2014

R: poolDictionaries removal breaks my projects

by Lorenzo Schiavina

Just the same in all the world! Lorenzo Da: Pharo-dev [mailto:pharo-dev-bounces@lists.pharo.org] Per conto di Sebastian Sastre Inviato: sabato 1 febbraio 2014 13:33 A: Pharo Development List Oggetto: Re: [Pharo-dev] poolDictionaries removal breaks my projects How many lectures did you give? It is annoying to have to explain something that usually people do not need to know. I don't give any lectures to students but I often try to "teach" Smalltalk to some of my colleagues and friends. And with that I have hard times. Typically "experienced" software developers think about themselves as being experts in object orientation and programming languages, even if they have only experiences with C, C# and C++. "Teaching" them about Smalltalk's idea of object orientation is VERY hard, almost impossible because they already know everything (read: they are ignorant) and lazy. I guess there are some similarities to students. +1 on this Newcomers do not use pooldictionaries. In 10 years smalltalking I used them twice. Newcomers don't use a lot of things but that should not be a reason to hide them. In my experience newcomers need guidance and rules but "oldtimers" need freedom. This is one of the reasons I really enjoy dynamic typing and Smalltalk. I don't like to obey to artificial rules that only put permanent burden to me in order to protect me from something I might do wrong sometimes. At the moment I am considering pool dictionaries for a solution of a problem at hand: I need to collect some information (warnings, errors, and reports) over lots of related and unrelated classes. For the moment I have parameters, but that is getting inconvenient with a growing number of things to collect. So, if you need something it should be there and not necessarily obscured and hidden! If you don't see features you don't know what the machine can do for you. Obscuring things is sometimes a good design strategy, but here there is a well known artefact breaking tradition here, that isn't something light. And the proposed alternative design is far to be better (read: have been proven itself worth of its added burden of breaking that tradition) Students shouldn't be underestimated they can handle ignoring what they don't need, no problem We just need a full class template menu item. Yes, but it's not there yet but this change already took away some power without giving me back something in exchange! I am able to ignore some parts of class creation message easily (I also don't use class variables that often) and I don't see why students shouldn't be able, too. Quite contrary I think if you hide these things from students they won't see it, won't get curious and in the end will only learn the boring parts of Smalltalk. Yeah, you're not the only one with that perception. This move sucks. It allegedly solved a problem that allegedly happens to some by creating a problem for almost everybody. It's a half-ass non-solution Do you really love cleaning that up? Go ahead and do it after you prove to us (non-newcomers, so non-early adopters but conservatives users) that your alternative not only is clean but rocks (more convenient is some other way). The second part of your homework on this design decision was completely ignored so expecting it to be loved (popular) is unrealistic And by not doing that you just added a problem where there was none Not willing to do that second part? Then don't fix what isn't broken.

Feb. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] poolDictionaries removal breaks my projects

by Sebastian Sastre

>> How many lectures did you give? It is annoying to have to explain something that usually people do not need to know. > I donât give any lectures to students but I often try to âteachâ Smalltalk to some of my colleagues and friends. And with that I have hard times. > Typically âexperiencedâ software developers think about themselves as being experts in object orientation and programming languages, > even if they have only experiences with C, C# and C++. âTeachingâ them about Smalltalkâs idea of object orientation is VERY hard, almost > impossible because they already know everything (read: they are ignorant) and lazy. I guess there are some similarities to students. +1 on this >> >> Newcomers do not use pooldictionaries. In 10 years smalltalking I used them twice. > Newcomers donât use a lot of things but that should not be a reason to hide them. In my experience newcomers need guidance and rules but > âoldtimersâ need freedom. This is one of the reasons I really enjoy dynamic typing and Smalltalk. I donât like to obey to artificial rules that only > put permanent burden to me in order to protect me from something I might do wrong sometimes. > > At the moment I am considering pool dictionaries for a solution of a problem at hand: I need to collect some information (warnings, errors, and reports) over lots of related and unrelated classes. For the moment I have parameters, but that is getting inconvenient with a growing number of things to collectâ¦ > So, if you need something it should be there and not necessarily obscured and hidden! > If you donât see features you donât know what the machine can do for you. Obscuring things is sometimes a good design strategy, but here there is a well known artefact breaking tradition here, that isnât something light. And the proposed alternative design is far to be better (read: have been proven itself worth of its added burden of breaking that tradition) Students shouldnât be underestimated they can handle ignoring what they donât need, no problem >> >> We just need a full class template menu item. > Yes, but itâs not there yet but this change already took away some power without giving me back something in exchange! > I am able to ignore some parts of class creation message easily (I also donât use class variables that often) and I donât see why students > shouldnât be able, too. Quite contrary I think if you hide these things from students they wonât see it, wonât get curious and in the end will only > learn the boring parts of Smalltalkâ¦ > Yeah, youâre not the only one with that perception. This move sucks. It allegedly solved a problem that allegedly happens to some by creating a problem for almost everybody. Itâs a half-ass non-solution Do you really love cleaning that up? Go ahead and do it after you prove to us (non-newcomers, so non-early adopters but conservatives users) that your alternative not only is clean but rocks (more convenient is some other way). The second part of your homework on this design decision was completely ignored so expecting it to be loved (popular) is unrealistic And by not doing that you just added a problem where there was none Not willing to do that second part? Then donât fix what isnât broken.

Feb. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] ZTimestamp>>monthName spelling error

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Sabine, On 01 Feb 2014, at 12:52, Sabine KnÃ¶fel <sabine.knoefel(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Sven, > > could you change Februari into February please? Ah, terrible typo, it was all over the place. === Name: ZTimestamp-SvenVanCaekenberghe.32 Author: SvenVanCaekenberghe Time: 1 February 2014, 1:27:02.50151 pm UUID: 70fd3b88-e15e-4139-922c-9c602e3fc532 Ancestors: ZTimestamp-SvenVanCaekenberghe.31 The English spelling of the 2nd month name was consistently wrong: Februari instead of the correct February (thx Sabine KnÃ¶fel); Now use #monthIndex instead of the less consistent #month === Btw, did you know you can do: (ZTimestampFormat fromString: 'Saterday, 3 February, 2001') german; format: Date today. => 'Samstag, 1 Februar, 2014' Regards, Sven > (I use http://mc.stfx.eu/Neo, this is the right place?) > > Regards > Sabine > > ZTimestamp>>monthName > "Return the English name of the month of the receiver, according to the > Gregorian calendar, a Symbol" > > ^ #(January Februari March April May June July August September October > November December) at: self monthIndex > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/ZTimestamp-monthName-spelling-error-tp4740821.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Feb. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Yet another week of commits

by Norbert Hartl

Am 31.01.2014 um 20:21 schrieb blake <dsblakewatson(a)gmail.com>: > Websense categorizes "association.pharo.org" as "sex". > That should help attract new people :) Norbert > > On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 10:56 AM, Pharo4Stef <pharo4Stef(a)free.fr> wrote: > Another week of improvements > > http://association.pharo.org/web/weekly/Commits-Jan-3 > > stef >

Feb. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Slides Pharo3 Fosdem

by Tudor Girba

Nice. Thanks Marcus for the advertising effort! Doru On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 1:10 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>wrote: > Hi, > > My slides for Fosdem are online (Pharo3, Pharo4 later) > > http://www.slideshare.net/MarcusDenker/pharo3-at-fosdem > http://marcusdenker.de/talks/14Fosdem/2014-FOSDEM-Pharo3.pdf > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Feb. 1, 2014

Slides Pharo3 Fosdem

by Marcus Denker

Hi, My slides for Fosdem are online (Pharo3, Pharo4 later) http://www.slideshare.net/MarcusDenker/pharo3-at-fosdem http://marcusdenker.de/talks/14Fosdem/2014-FOSDEM-Pharo3.pdf

Feb. 1, 2014

ZTimestamp>>monthName spelling error

by Sabine KnÃ¶fel

Hi Sven, could you change Februari into February please? (I use http://mc.stfx.eu/Neo, this is the right place?) Regards Sabine ZTimestamp>>monthName "Return the English name of the month of the receiver, according to the Gregorian calendar, a Symbol" ^ #(January Februari March April May June July August September October November December) at: self monthIndex -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/ZTimestamp-monthName-spelling-error-tp4740821.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Feb. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] subscript out of bounds in protocol creation

by Andreas Wacknitz

Am 01.02.2014 um 12:02 schrieb Andreas Wacknitz <a.wacknitz(a)gmx.de>: > Hi Jordi and all, > > here is my detailed receipt with a freshly downloaded 30733.zip from Pharo files: > > 1. Open Nautilus > 2. Select an arbitrary package > 3. Select an arbitrary class from that package > 4. Right-click in the methods panel and select âAdd protocolâ¦â from the popup menu. Sorry, I was a little bit imprecise here: You need to right-click in the "method categoryâ (or method protocol, I donât know the correct term) panel to add a new protocolâ¦ > 5. Enter âprivateâ in the dialog without selecting any entry in the listbox on top. > 6. Hit âenterâ or press âOKâ with a left-click. > > -> Bummer! A cascade of 3 "SubscriptOutOfBounce: 1â pre-debuggers. > > Regards, > Andreas > > > > Am 01.02.2014 um 11:46 schrieb Jordi Delgado <jdelgado(a)lsi.upc.edu>: > >> Hi, >> >> With a fresh image, I do that with a class randomly selected >> (obviously, with no class selected nothing happens) and the >> protocol gets added without problems. Then, I choose another class, >> again I pick a random one, and after doing exactly the same the >> error appears. Why? No clue. >> >> I said that the error is difficult to reproduce because sometimes >> it appears, and sometimes not. And I am not able to ascertain the >> circumstances under which it will pop up. >> >> Bests, >> >> Jordi >> >> >> >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Am 31.01.2014 um 08:36 schrieb Jordi Delgado <jdelgado(a)lsi.upc.edu>: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I realized that sometimes, when creating new protocols, it appears an >>>> error "subscript out of bounds: 1". I have not been able -yet- >>>> to reproduce it from a clean image, but it happens often (at least >>>> to me). It seems to me that it has something to do with protocol >>>> creation before any method has been written, but I am still investigating. >>>> >>> I guess I can produce this easily :-) >>> Just hit âAdd protocolâ¦â in the popup menu of the method protocol pane. >>> Enter a name like âprivateâ in the dialog. And then press enter without selecting anything in the listbox above. >>> And voilÃ â¦ >>> >>> Regards, >>> Andreas >>> >>> >>> >> > >

Feb. 1, 2014