- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] poolDictionaries removal breaks my projects

by Sebastian Sastre

On Feb 1, 2014, at 11:37 AM, Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl> wrote: > For what it's worth: this was asked on the users list (some months ago). There were about 5 replies and they were positive. I do not recall having any negative replies. > > I think that asking much more than that is hard, given the nature of mailing lists and the comity being busy with many other things. Yeah we are totally exposed to the problem of having ~null usability tests so our UI are non-designers attempts to get it incrementally right Thatâs a hard one. We really need help from design universities students

Feb. 1, 2014

Pharo on Debian 7 with Zeroconf > failing with the dreaded GLIBC 2.15 error

by phil＠highoctane.be

I tried to use zeroconf with Debian 7 (vmLatest and vm Stable) and both failed. There is the GLIBC 2.15 error. 2.15 is on Ubuntu but on Debian ldd --version gives 2.13 So, is there any slave job on the CI that builds for this platform? Phil

Feb. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Yet another week of commits

by Tudor Girba

Hmm, maybe it's not so wrong after all: perhaps it wanted to associate it with "sexy" :) Doru On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 1:22 PM, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > Am 31.01.2014 um 20:21 schrieb blake <dsblakewatson(a)gmail.com>: > > Websense categorizes "association.pharo.org" as "sex". > > That should help attract new people :) > > Norbert > > > On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 10:56 AM, Pharo4Stef <pharo4Stef(a)free.fr> wrote: > >> Another week of improvements >> >> http://association.pharo.org/web/weekly/Commits-Jan-3 >> >> stef >> > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Feb. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] poolDictionaries removal breaks my projects

by Johan Fabry

Please note that the change IS at the Nautilus level. The default class description is the same as before! Your class porting example is unharmed by this change. On Feb 1, 2014, at 7:16 AM, GOUBIER Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr> wrote: > Shortening the default class description is also painfull when you port code, because it makes the class appear different (description with and without pool dictionaries) in the change sorter. I wrote a pac change reader to port SmaCC from Dolphin to Pharo, and, really, this kind of change makes that unusable. > > In short, make that change correctly: at the Nautilus level. It's a GUI issue, not a language issue. ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

Feb. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] poolDictionaries removal breaks my projects

by Johan Fabry

+1 on this point of view On Feb 1, 2014, at 7:09 AM, Pharo4Stef <pharo4Stef(a)free.fr> wrote: > @ Igor > > I guess that I know pretty well poolDictionaries I do not need an explanation. I even found bugs in the previous lookup and now > we have recompilation bugs when changing pools. > > Now how many times gave one lectures to newcomers? > Why do we have new calling initialize? Because after first lecture we HAD to explain metaclasses. > Do we want to continue to stay a close club of smart asses? > > NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO > > NOT ME at least > > > @others > > Now people hear me well: you are ready to hear well. Lower the music > > WE WILL change the class definition in Pharo 4 because we want slots. > So be prepared. > > This is not because you did not read nor type this class definition since years (because you do not even > look at it) that > - it will not change > - students do not get overhelmed with it. > > I DO NOT WANT MY SONS TO PROGRAM IN PYTHON/RUBY/JS BECAUSE THIS IS âEASIERâ. Is it clear? > It is BORING to have to say to kids: > - do not care of classvar > - do not care of pooldictionaries > > COME ON when can we open our eyes? > So yes Iâmad at the lack of vision **you** have. But do not worry I have the vision for Pharo. If you do not like it, I cannot do > much for you. Continue rambling how cool was smalltalk 30 years ago. Not me. > We are INVENTING the future here. > > So please focus your energy on how to make pharo simpler, nicer and sexier. > > Stef > ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

Feb. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] poolDictionaries removal breaks my projects

by Johan Fabry

On Jan 31, 2014, at 4:50 PM, Pharo4Stef <pharo4Stef(a)free.fr> wrote: >> I donât see how this change make Smalltalk (the language) simpler. For me this change looks more like an obfuscation than a simplification. > > How many lectures did you give? It is annoying to have to explain something that usually people do not need to know. To complement this: in my own experience as a full-time prof, whenever you are teaching and at a given point you need to say: 'I cannot explain this yet' or resort to handwaving there is something wrong. Do I need to explain pooldictionaries to be able to talk about class creation? No, I should not need to do that. I get this feeling with Java all the time. First hello world example in Java is always a mess. public static void main(String[] args) OMG. Start to explain all that just to do a println? Were is the simplicity there? I don't want to have this kind of feeling when I explain Smalltalk. >> How should newcomers know how to enter pool dictionaries? I rarely use pool dictionaries and if I will need it I surely have forgotten about >> this change and expect irritation and frustration. > > Newcomers do not use pooldictionaries. In 10 years smalltalking I used them twice. I agree with Stef that pooldictionaries are advanced features. I have been Smalltalking since 1998 and I have never used them. ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

Feb. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] poolDictionaries removal breaks my projects

by Johan Fabry

For what it's worth: this was asked on the users list (some months ago). There were about 5 replies and they were positive. I do not recall having any negative replies. I think that asking much more than that is hard, given the nature of mailing lists and the comity being busy with many other things. Also, having learned about user studies and performed a few (for this "science" thing I'm supposed to be doing), I can tell you that getting a really representative group of users together is nearly impossible in the scenario we are in. So anything you can get out of an inquiry will just be 'some people say: OK'. Nothing is guaranteed about other people. Which is just what is happening here ! ;-) On Jan 31, 2014, at 6:43 PM, Sebastian Sastre <sebastian(a)flowingconcept.com> wrote: > Lets says it convinces youâ¦ > > Time to be skeptic. Test. > > Test with someone else. Tests it with 5 guys and ask how they feel about it. > > Hear. ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

Feb. 1, 2014

Pharo on Debian 7 > failing

by phil＠highoctane.be

I have been trying to get Pharo running on Debian 7 via the ppa thing. After some twists (getting tools installing), here is what I get: Ign http://ppa.launchpad.net wheezy/main Translation-en_GB Ign http://ppa.launchpad.net wheezy/main Translation-en Get:3 http://http.debian.net wheezy/main Translation-en [3,852 kB] Get:4 http://http.debian.net wheezy-updates/main Translation-en/DiffIndex [505 B] Fetched 3,855 kB in 10s (361 kB/s) W: Failed to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/pharo/stable/ubuntu/dists/wheezy/main/source/Sourc… 404 Not Found W: Failed to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/pharo/stable/ubuntu/dists/wheezy/main/binary-amd64… 404 Not Found E: Some index files failed to download. They have been ignored, or old ones used instead. So, a 404, which I think is related ot the fact that there is nothing for wheezy in place. As matter of fact, there is nothing. Would someone update those contents? Thanks! Phil

Feb. 1, 2014

Slides from Fosdem: Pharo4: Plans and Dreams

by Marcus Denker

Pharo4: Plans and Dreams http://www.slideshare.net/MarcusDenker/2013-fosdempharo4 http://marcusdenker.de/talks/14Fosdem/2013-FOSDEM-Pharo4.pdf

Feb. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Comparing dates

by Sebastian Sastre

Can somebody please clarify if this is a bug or feature? thanks On Jan 31, 2014, at 9:03 PM, Sebastian Sastre <SEBASTIAN(a)FLOWINGCONCEPT.COM> wrote: > self assert: Date today = Date today. > > today := Date today translateTo: 2 hours. > self assert: today = Date today > > Is this right? > > > >

Feb. 1, 2014