- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] subscript out of bounds in protocol creation

by Jordi Delgado

That's what I mean, I did *exactly* that, and the chosen class was KMKeymapBuilder (from Keymapping-Pragmas package). The private protocol was added with no problem. So...? No idea. Bests, Jordi PS: Also with a freshly 30733 image downloaded > Hi Jordi and all, > > here is my detailed receipt with a freshly downloaded 30733.zip from Pharo files: > > 1. Open Nautilus > 2. Select an arbitrary package > 3. Select an arbitrary class from that package > 4. Right-click in the methods panel and select ÂAdd protocolÂÂ from the popup menu. > 5. Enter ÂprivateÂ in the dialog without selecting any entry in the listbox on top. > 6. Hit ÂenterÂ or press ÂOKÂ with a left-click. > > -> Bummer! A cascade of 3 "SubscriptOutOfBounce: 1Â pre-debuggers. > > Regards, > Andreas > > > > Am 01.02.2014 um 11:46 schrieb Jordi Delgado <jdelgado(a)lsi.upc.edu>: > > > Hi, > > > > With a fresh image, I do that with a class randomly selected > > (obviously, with no class selected nothing happens) and the > > protocol gets added without problems. Then, I choose another class, > > again I pick a random one, and after doing exactly the same the > > error appears. Why? No clue. > > > > I said that the error is difficult to reproduce because sometimes > > it appears, and sometimes not. And I am not able to ascertain the > > circumstances under which it will pop up. > > > > Bests, > > > > Jordi > > > > > > > > > >> Hi, > >> > >> Am 31.01.2014 um 08:36 schrieb Jordi Delgado <jdelgado(a)lsi.upc.edu>: > >> > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> I realized that sometimes, when creating new protocols, it appears an > >>> error "subscript out of bounds: 1". I have not been able -yet- > >>> to reproduce it from a clean image, but it happens often (at least > >>> to me). It seems to me that it has something to do with protocol > >>> creation before any method has been written, but I am still investigating. > >>> > >> I guess I can produce this easily :-) > >> Just hit ÂAdd protocolÂÂ in the popup menu of the method protocol pane. > >> Enter a name like ÂprivateÂ in the dialog. And then press enter without selecting anything in the listbox above. > >> And voilÃ Â > >> > >> Regards, > >> Andreas > >> > >> > >> > > > >

Feb. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] poolDictionaries removal breaks my projects

by Torsten Bergmann

Hi Stef, > Now people hear me well: you are ready to hear well. Lower the music Beside the fact that I like listening to loud music I really lowered it ;) But even with silence in the room your response told me nothing new regarding the topic discussed. It is not a discussion about "who has the vision" or "who want to get stuck" I think we all share the SAME VISION to move forward with a fresh dynamic programming environment and are not afraid if we move away from our original roots. Otherwise we would'nt be on this list or do even radical changes. Therefore: please stay on topic and stop arguing by pointing to visions because it will move us away from the original discussion and one can easily get the impression that opposite opinions on the topic are cut down as if people are either grumpy old Smalltalkers or betrayers on the Pharo movement - which is simply not the case! So lets continue discussing about the topic - because I see no violation agains the Pharo vision here. ---------------- OK, back to topic and to summarize: we now all fully understood that the original message including pools is still there, will not break code loading or other things and that the change is on the Nautilus level. But still the simple question left to be anwered here: what will this change of reducing the class template in the default browser give us? What problem did it really solve? The answer given so far is that it may be problematic when teaching because you want to introduce to language features step by step. But you said yourself in your own post that <quote> It is BORING to have to say to kids: - do not care of classvar - do not care of pooldictionaries </quote> So my question: if you are bored of the "complexity" of BOTH (!) - why do we hide pools now - and leave class variables still left in the template? I really do not understand because with the change it now looks in Pharo3.0 Latest update: #30732 like this: Object subclass: #Foo instanceVariableNames: '' classVariableNames: '' category: 'Bar' So why do we keep class vars then? According to your mail we would have to remove them too. Additionally this change violates the intention of a template (which one usually just has to fill out) and one now has to remember the original full keyword and have to type it in again - which is IMHO really awkward and stupid. So with all respect: I still can not see the introduction of the reduced template as a step forward or an improvement. Music is still lowered and ears are all open... Thx T.

Feb. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] ZTimestamp>>monthName spelling error

by Sabine KnÃ¶fel

Hi Sven, the german translations are all correct. Thanks :) Sabine Am 01.02.2014 15:44 schrieb "Sven Van Caekenberghe" <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > This is becoming really embarrassing. > > Before I do another commit, this is all correct, right ? > > german > self monthNames: #( > 'Januar' 'Februar' 'MÃ¤rz' 'April' 'Mai' 'Juni' > 'Juli' 'August' 'September' 'Oktober' 'November' 'Dezember' ). > self weekdayNames: #( > 'Sonntag' 'Montag' 'Dienstag' 'Mittwoch' 'Donnerstag' 'Freitag' > 'Samstag' ) > > On 01 Feb 2014, at 15:15, Sabine KnÃ¶fel <sabine.knoefel(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi Sven, > > > > thank you for the quick fix. It works fine now. > > > > I do not call this directly but from > > DateAndTime date: self endDate time: self endTime > > > > Your example: > > I am no english native speaker but I assume, that 'saterday' should be > spelled as 'saturday'. > > If yes, there are several occurences of saterday. I saw this when trying > your example: > > > > (ZTimestampFormat fromString: 'Saterday, 3 February, 2001') > > german; > > format: Date today. ==>>'Samstag, 1 Februar, 2014' > > > > (ZTimestampFormat fromString: 'Saturday, 3 February, 2001') > > german; > > format: Date today. ==>>'Samurday, 1 Februar, 2014' > > > > Also, 'Samurday' is no german word. 'Saturday' means 'Samstag' in German. > > > > Regards > > Sabine > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 1:31 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> > wrote: > > Sabine, > > > > On 01 Feb 2014, at 12:52, Sabine KnÃ¶fel <sabine.knoefel(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > Hi Sven, > > > > > > could you change Februari into February please? > > > > Ah, terrible typo, it was all over the place. > > > > === > > Name: ZTimestamp-SvenVanCaekenberghe.32 > > Author: SvenVanCaekenberghe > > Time: 1 February 2014, 1:27:02.50151 pm > > UUID: 70fd3b88-e15e-4139-922c-9c602e3fc532 > > Ancestors: ZTimestamp-SvenVanCaekenberghe.31 > > > > The English spelling of the 2nd month name was consistently wrong: > Februari instead of the correct February (thx Sabine KnÃ¶fel); > > Now use #monthIndex instead of the less consistent #month > > === > > > > Btw, did you know you can do: > > > > (ZTimestampFormat fromString: 'Saterday, 3 February, 2001') > > german; > > format: Date today. > > > > => 'Samstag, 1 Februar, 2014' > > > > Regards, > > > > Sven > > > > > (I use http://mc.stfx.eu/Neo, this is the right place?) > > > > > > Regards > > > Sabine > > > > > > ZTimestamp>>monthName > > > "Return the English name of the month of the receiver, according > to the > > > Gregorian calendar, a Symbol" > > > > > > ^ #(January Februari March April May June July August September > October > > > November December) at: self monthIndex > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/ZTimestamp-monthName-spelling-error-tp4740821.html > > > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > > > > > > > > > > > >

Feb. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] ZTimestamp>>monthName spelling error

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

This is becoming really embarrassing. Before I do another commit, this is all correct, right ? german self monthNames: #( 'Januar' 'Februar' 'MÃ¤rz' 'April' 'Mai' 'Juni' 'Juli' 'August' 'September' 'Oktober' 'November' 'Dezember' ). self weekdayNames: #( 'Sonntag' 'Montag' 'Dienstag' 'Mittwoch' 'Donnerstag' 'Freitag' 'Samstag' ) On 01 Feb 2014, at 15:15, Sabine KnÃ¶fel <sabine.knoefel(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Sven, > > thank you for the quick fix. It works fine now. > > I do not call this directly but from > DateAndTime date: self endDate time: self endTime > > Your example: > I am no english native speaker but I assume, that 'saterday' should be spelled as 'saturday'. > If yes, there are several occurences of saterday. I saw this when trying your example: > > (ZTimestampFormat fromString: 'Saterday, 3 February, 2001') > german; > format: Date today. ==>>'Samstag, 1 Februar, 2014' > > (ZTimestampFormat fromString: 'Saturday, 3 February, 2001') > german; > format: Date today. ==>>'Samurday, 1 Februar, 2014' > > Also, 'Samurday' is no german word. 'Saturday' means 'Samstag' in German. > > Regards > Sabine > > > On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 1:31 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > Sabine, > > On 01 Feb 2014, at 12:52, Sabine KnÃ¶fel <sabine.knoefel(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi Sven, > > > > could you change Februari into February please? > > Ah, terrible typo, it was all over the place. > > === > Name: ZTimestamp-SvenVanCaekenberghe.32 > Author: SvenVanCaekenberghe > Time: 1 February 2014, 1:27:02.50151 pm > UUID: 70fd3b88-e15e-4139-922c-9c602e3fc532 > Ancestors: ZTimestamp-SvenVanCaekenberghe.31 > > The English spelling of the 2nd month name was consistently wrong: Februari instead of the correct February (thx Sabine KnÃ¶fel); > Now use #monthIndex instead of the less consistent #month > === > > Btw, did you know you can do: > > (ZTimestampFormat fromString: 'Saterday, 3 February, 2001') > german; > format: Date today. > > => 'Samstag, 1 Februar, 2014' > > Regards, > > Sven > > > (I use http://mc.stfx.eu/Neo, this is the right place?) > > > > Regards > > Sabine > > > > ZTimestamp>>monthName > > "Return the English name of the month of the receiver, according to the > > Gregorian calendar, a Symbol" > > > > ^ #(January Februari March April May June July August September October > > November December) at: self monthIndex > > > > > > > > -- > > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/ZTimestamp-monthName-spelling-error-tp4740821.html > > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > > >

Feb. 1, 2014

[ANN] Objective Smalltalk

by Sebastian Sastre

It seems there is an Objective-C with Smalltalk syntax: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7161566 Vote up! sebastian o/

Feb. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] poolDictionaries removal breaks my projects

by Sebastian Sastre

On Feb 1, 2014, at 12:09 PM, Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl> wrote: > Yes, something like this would be great. If it's a consolation: this kind of problem is present throughout the programming language research community. There's a great paper by Hanenberg on that. It's called "Faith, hope, and love: an essay on software science's neglect of human factors". (OOPSLA 2010) Well worth the read! thanks for the reference Johan. Introducing mature slots in a clean easy to understand UI is great. My problem is with introducing innovation poorly It can be traits, new API, you name it

Feb. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Comparing dates

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Sebastian, In my 3.0 image | today | today := Date today. (today translateTo: 2 hours) = today. => false But what are you trying to accomplish ? Dates are a bit ambiguous: my Feb 1st and your Feb 1st, in one sense they are the same, refer to the same date, but in another sense, yours started at a different point in time, right ? So are they equal ? Sven On 01 Feb 2014, at 14:01, Sebastian Sastre <sebastian(a)flowingconcept.com> wrote: > Can somebody please clarify if this is a bug or feature? > > thanks > > > > > On Jan 31, 2014, at 9:03 PM, Sebastian Sastre <SEBASTIAN(a)FLOWINGCONCEPT.COM> wrote: > >> self assert: Date today = Date today. >> >> today := Date today translateTo: 2 hours. >> self assert: today = Date today >> >> Is this right? >> >> >> >> > >

Feb. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] ZTimestamp>>monthName spelling error

by Sabine KnÃ¶fel

Hi Sven, thank you for the quick fix. It works fine now. I do not call this directly but from DateAndTime date: self endDate time: self endTime Your example: I am no english native speaker but I assume, that 'saterday' should be spelled as 'saturday'. If yes, there are several occurences of saterday. I saw this when trying your example: (ZTimestampFormat fromString: 'Saterday, 3 February, 2001') german; format: Date today. ==>>'Samstag, 1 Februar, 2014' (ZTimestampFormat fromString: 'Saturday, 3 February, 2001') german; format: Date today. ==>>'Samurday, 1 Februar, 2014' Also, 'Samurday' is no german word. 'Saturday' means 'Samstag' in German. Regards Sabine On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 1:31 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > Sabine, > > On 01 Feb 2014, at 12:52, Sabine KnÃ¶fel <sabine.knoefel(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi Sven, > > > > could you change Februari into February please? > > Ah, terrible typo, it was all over the place. > > === > Name: ZTimestamp-SvenVanCaekenberghe.32 > Author: SvenVanCaekenberghe > Time: 1 February 2014, 1:27:02.50151 pm > UUID: 70fd3b88-e15e-4139-922c-9c602e3fc532 > Ancestors: ZTimestamp-SvenVanCaekenberghe.31 > > The English spelling of the 2nd month name was consistently wrong: > Februari instead of the correct February (thx Sabine KnÃ¶fel); > Now use #monthIndex instead of the less consistent #month > === > > Btw, did you know you can do: > > (ZTimestampFormat fromString: 'Saterday, 3 February, 2001') > german; > format: Date today. > > => 'Samstag, 1 Februar, 2014' > > Regards, > > Sven > > > (I use http://mc.stfx.eu/Neo, this is the right place?) > > > > Regards > > Sabine > > > > ZTimestamp>>monthName > > "Return the English name of the month of the receiver, according > to the > > Gregorian calendar, a Symbol" > > > > ^ #(January Februari March April May June July August September > October > > November December) at: self monthIndex > > > > > > > > -- > > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/ZTimestamp-monthName-spelling-error-tp4740821.html > > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > > > > >

Feb. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] poolDictionaries removal breaks my projects

by Johan Fabry

On Feb 1, 2014, at 10:58 AM, Sebastian Sastre <sebastian(a)flowingconcept.com> wrote: > > On Feb 1, 2014, at 11:37 AM, Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl> wrote: > >> For what it's worth: this was asked on the users list (some months ago). There were about 5 replies and they were positive. I do not recall having any negative replies. >> >> I think that asking much more than that is hard, given the nature of mailing lists and the comity being busy with many other things. > > Yeah we are totally exposed to the problem of having ~null usability tests so our UI are non-designers attempts to get it incrementally right > > Thatâs a hard one. > > We really need help from design universities students Yes, something like this would be great. If it's a consolation: this kind of problem is present throughout the programming language research community. There's a great paper by Hanenberg on that. It's called "Faith, hope, and love: an essay on software science's neglect of human factors". (OOPSLA 2010) Well worth the read! ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

Feb. 1, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] poolDictionaries removal breaks my projects

by Johan Fabry

On Feb 1, 2014, at 9:32 AM, Sebastian Sastre <sebastian(a)flowingconcept.com> wrote: >> I donât give any lectures to students but I often try to âteachâ Smalltalk to some of my colleagues and friends. And with that I have hard times. >> Typically âexperiencedâ software developers think about themselves as being experts in object orientation and programming languages, >> even if they have only experiences with C, C# and C++. âTeachingâ them about Smalltalkâs idea of object orientation is VERY hard, almost >> impossible because they already know everything (read: they are ignorant) and lazy. I guess there are some similarities to students. > > +1 on this There are some kinds of students who are going to find Smalltalk difficult, yes. I do not see how removing pooldictionaries from the class creation template will affect them. If they ask about them, you can say that they are there and point them to the new class creation message. And take advantage of that to say that class creation is just a message send while you are at it :-) >> Newcomers donât use a lot of things but that should not be a reason to hide them. In my experience newcomers need guidance and rules but >> âoldtimersâ need freedom. This is one of the reasons I really enjoy dynamic typing and Smalltalk. I donât like to obey to artificial rules that only >> put permanent burden to me in order to protect me from something I might do wrong sometimes. You still have the freedom to use pool dictionaries. They are still there. >> At the moment I am considering pool dictionaries for a solution of a problem at hand: I need to collect some information (warnings, errors, and reports) over lots of related and unrelated classes. For the moment I have parameters, but that is getting inconvenient with a growing number of things to collectâ¦ >> So, if you need something it should be there and not necessarily obscured and hidden! >> > > If you donât see features you donât know what the machine can do for you. > > Obscuring things is sometimes a good design strategy, but here there is a well known artefact breaking tradition here, that isnât something light. And the proposed alternative design is far to be better (read: have been proven itself worth of its added burden of breaking that tradition) So if we cannot break tradition then Traits should never have been introduced? > Students shouldnât be underestimated they can handle ignoring what they donât need, no problem If I would have infinite time, and they as well, sure! Be we don't and we need to focus. >> Yes, but itâs not there yet but this change already took away some power without giving me back something in exchange! >> I am able to ignore some parts of class creation message easily (I also donât use class variables that often) and I donât see why students >> shouldnât be able, too. Quite contrary I think if you hide these things from students they wonât see it, wonât get curious and in the end will only >> learn the boring parts of Smalltalkâ¦ >> > Yeah, youâre not the only one with that perception. > > This move sucks. It allegedly solved a problem that allegedly happens to some by creating a problem for almost everybody. I have an issue with your "problem for almost everybody" statement. Pooldictionaries are rarely used. Look at the classes in the image. Can you argument why this then is a problem for almost everybody ? I do not see how you get to this conclusion. > Itâs a half-ass non-solution > > Do you really love cleaning that up? This half-assed non-solution is the same solution as for Traits, essentially. Do you have the same issue with Traits? > The second part of your homework on this design decision was completely ignored so expecting it to be loved (popular) is unrealistic > > And by not doing that you just added a problem where there was none > > Not willing to do that second part? > > Then donât fix what isnât broken. Please see previous mail. ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

Feb. 1, 2014