- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Log of the february dev meeting

by Alexandre Bergel

Why not calling "PharoS" as "PharoWithoutJit" ? Alexandre > Le 23-02-2014 Ã 12:11, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit : > > Hello, > > > 2014-02-23 14:51 GMT+01:00 Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com>: >> Hi! >> >> What is PharoS? > > For marketing, > > Cog VM => Pharo VM > Stack VM => PharoS VM > >> >> Alexandre >> >> > Le 22-02-2014 Ã 7:44, Pharo4Stef <pharo4Stef(a)free.fr> a Ã©crit : >> > >> > HI guys >> > >> > we did not have a full team meeting since nov so here is the log of the one feb 2014. >> > >> > 17 February 2014 >> > >> > >> > TODO for 3.0 >> > ââââââ >> > >> > - [todo] 17 issues left >> > - [todo] Rpackage >> > - [todo] classBuilder >> > - [todo] VM >> > - [todo] new pharo web sites >> > - [todo] pharo list of changes >> > >> > - [no progress] >> > OPAL methods withoutsource >> > stalled >> > unclear who is creating method without source. >> > >> > - [Todo ] SmalltalkInbox for projects >> > >> > >> > - [Todo] >> > Web site >> > Pharodoc web site >> > Association >> > >> > - [30] MetacelloRepository >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Todo for 40 >> > âââââ >> > >> > - [40] NativeBoost on PharoS >> > >> > - [40] Kill Package Info >> > - Rpackage iteration under way >> > >> > - [40] TxModel >> > - (done) refactoring immutable position selection >> > - (done) visual is working >> > - scrolling should be added >> > - (done) page up down should be added >> > - morph widget >> > - finish >> > - (done) Study Rubric >> > >> > - [40] NewInterpreter >> > NewSpec interpreter >> > two days of work >> > should be integrated in this iteration >> > >> > - [40] bugs from the image >> > >> > - [40] NativeBoost with new ASMJIT version >> > >> > - [40] New look and feel - November >> > >> > - [40] SystemEvents >> > >> > - [40] Display VM Guile and Esteban are killing globals >> > >> > >> > >> > Stef >

Feb. 25, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Log of the february dev meeting

by Alexandre Bergel

Ah okay. Thanks! Alexandre > Le 23-02-2014 Ã 11:49, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> a Ã©crit : > > >> On 23 Feb 2014, at 14:51, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: >> >> Hi! >> >> What is PharoS? > > The non-JIT version of Cog, AKA the Stack VM, a modern version of the old VM. > >> Alexandre >> >>> Le 22-02-2014 Ã 7:44, Pharo4Stef <pharo4Stef(a)free.fr> a Ã©crit : >>> >>> HI guys >>> >>> we did not have a full team meeting since nov so here is the log of the one feb 2014. >>> >>> 17 February 2014 >>> >>> >>> TODO for 3.0 >>> ââââââ >>> >>> - [todo] 17 issues left >>> - [todo] Rpackage >>> - [todo] classBuilder >>> - [todo] VM >>> - [todo] new pharo web sites >>> - [todo] pharo list of changes >>> >>> - [no progress] >>> OPAL methods withoutsource >>> stalled >>> unclear who is creating method without source. >>> >>> - [Todo ] SmalltalkInbox for projects >>> >>> >>> - [Todo] >>> Web site >>> Pharodoc web site >>> Association >>> >>> - [30] MetacelloRepository >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Todo for 40 >>> âââââ >>> >>> - [40] NativeBoost on PharoS >>> >>> - [40] Kill Package Info >>> - Rpackage iteration under way >>> >>> - [40] TxModel >>> - (done) refactoring immutable position selection >>> - (done) visual is working >>> - scrolling should be added >>> - (done) page up down should be added >>> - morph widget >>> - finish >>> - (done) Study Rubric >>> >>> - [40] NewInterpreter >>> NewSpec interpreter >>> two days of work >>> should be integrated in this iteration >>> >>> - [40] bugs from the image >>> >>> - [40] NativeBoost with new ASMJIT version >>> >>> - [40] New look and feel - November >>> >>> - [40] SystemEvents >>> >>> - [40] Display VM Guile and Esteban are killing globals >>> >>> >>> >>> Stef > >

Feb. 25, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] New methods for the String class

by Ron Teitelbaum

Hi All, Here is a moldy oldie from 2005: http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=1821 The arguments against increasing the size of classes worked on me. All except two methods which I still use frequently. They are explode: and mergeDelimited: (I changed the name of merge: to mergeDelimited: to make it more clear). "explode the collection into a collection of collections broken by aDelimiter" "(#(#(1 2) #(3 4)) mergeDelimited: Character tab ) explode: Character tab = an OrderedCollection(#(1 2) #(3 4)) 'abcdef' explode: 'cd' = an OrderedCollection('ab' 'ef')" I use these all the time. Example: Mail >> replaceTokensIn: aString ^self tokens inject: aString into: [:str :assoc | ((str explode: assoc key) mergeDelimited: assoc value value)]. We have templates that users can throw tokens in like {!First Name} {!email} then we just resolve the tokens and their evaluator block into an array tokens: anArray "Set an array of associations that represent token - value pairs being substituted in the email. The keys are strings to be looked for, the values are blocks being evaluated to obtain the string result." standardTokens := anArray and process the template. While these two methods (explode: and mergeDelimited:) never actually made it into a release I still find them very useful. Daniela, Your partition looks like my explode. Ron Teitelbaum Eliot Miranda wrote: On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: Am 24.02.2014 um 22:19 schrieb Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com>: On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 12:29 PM, Alexandre Bergel<alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: Would be great to have: 'ConfigurationOfRoassal' chopCamel => #('Configuration' 'Of' 'Roassal'). 'ConfigurationOfRoassal' piecesCutWhere: [:a :b| a isLowercase and: [b isUppercase]] an OrderedCollection('Configuration' 'Of' 'Roassal') It's too trivial, surely. No it is not. Because you have to know about it. Thanks for that one. "I learned something today[tm]" But the real things to learn are the Method Finder and the browser. Adding a lot of names that are known to those that know some scripting language du jour, but are incomprehensible to me, and no doubt many others, is not doing anything for anybody, except trying to be pointlessly cool. Trying to encourage programmers to use the ability of the system to self-introspect and self-document is giving them general skills they can build upon. So a project to improve the UI so that programmers are led to tools they can use for discovery seems worth-while to me, while adding yet more short-hand to hand-hold the ignorant isn't helping, IMHO. A modified Finder that had named fields for the formation of the "example" would go along way. I went a long time without knowing how to work with this. its a case of you-don't-know-what-you-don't-know cheers -ben Norbert Alexandre On Feb 24, 2014, at 2:30 PM, Daniela Meneses <daniela11290(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi to all, > > As you may know I'm working on in some improvements for the String class. Until now I implemented some missing tests. Right now I'm looking forward to add new methods that could be useful based on Ruby API (http://www.ruby-doc.org/core-2.1.0/String.html) These are a few of the methods that I'm planning to implement: > > . chomp(separator=$/) -> new_str > . chop() -> new_str > . ljust(integer, padstr='') ->new_str > . next -> new_str > . partition(sep) -> [head, sep, tail] > > Could you help to find out if these methods are already available for the String class? > > If you have any idea of new methods for the string class, will be really welcome. > > -- > Cheers, > Daniela Meneses -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu <http://www.bergel.eu/> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. -- best, Eliot -- best, Eliot

Feb. 25, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] New methods for the String class

by btc＠openinworld.com

Feb. 25, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] New methods for the String class

by btc＠openinworld.com

Feb. 25, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] iPad version does not work ?

by Esteban Lorenzano

it *should* be working now. cheers Esteban (who needs to write more documentation, but he does what he can :) ) On 24 Feb 2014, at 08:58, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > not yetâ¦ so far I restored the build capability, not the image event handling :( > (nevertheless, Iâm on it :) ) > > Esteban > > On 24 Feb 2014, at 08:00, jannik laval <jannik.laval(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi Esteban, >> >> Did you already try ? >> I saw a message on the VM repo related to iOS, not sure it is for my problem. >> >> Cheers, >> Jannik >> >> >> 2014-01-29 17:32 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: >> oksâ¦ I will take a lookâ¦ as soon as I can :S >> >> (damnâ¦ I need to learn how to do a mitosisâ¦) >> >> On 29 Jan 2014, at 17:28, jannik laval <jannik.laval(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I confirm that it does not work: the simulator compile (but not the non-simulator). >>> Then the image cannot be open: I have a white screen. >>> Here is my process: >>> >>> === >>> 1) git clone https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm.git >>> 2) in ./image dir prepare a VMMaker image (including download of a pharo 2.0): >>> ./newImage.sh >>> >>> 3)open the generated.image and execute: >>> === >>> PharoIPhoneBuilder buildIPhone. >>> â or â >>> PharoIPhoneBuilder buildIPhoneSimulator. >>> >>> 4) Generate your iPhone image in iosbuild/resources/ >>> ./generate.sh >>> >>> 5) In dir ./build: >>> sh build.sh >>> === >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Jannik >>> >>> >>> >>> 2014-01-29 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> >>> and btwâ¦ >>> >>> iosbuild/resource$ ./generate.sh >>> >>> should generate a 1.4 image that *should* work in ipad (no idea if that will be the case, its been more than 6months since I do not test it and vm changed since then). >>> >>> Esteban >>> >>> >>> On 29 Jan 2014, at 10:23, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> PharoIPhoneBuilder buildIPhone. >>>> >>>> it should generate all sources and a âbuild.shâ >>>> >>>> then >>>> >>>> build$ sh build.sh >>>> >>>> will generate an xcode project. >>>> >>>> and let me rememberâ¦ mmmâ¦ yeah, that was all :) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 29 Jan 2014, at 08:10, jannik laval <jannik.laval(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Esteban, >>>>> >>>>> Hum, this means that my instructions are outdated. >>>>> Where are the right instructions ? The ones on Github do not mention IOS. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Jannik >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2014-01-29 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> >>>>> >>>>> On 29 Jan 2014, at 00:18, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 2:46 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> because you are not following the instructions ;) >>>>>> >>>>>> basicallyâ¦ you can generate them by: >>>>>> >>>>>> build$ ../scripts/extract-commit-info.sh >>>>>> >>>>>> I asked for this info last week ;-). Thanks! >>>>> >>>>> hey! I answered you! :P >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> But this is alarming: >>>>>> >>>>>> McStalker.pharovm$ ./scripts/extract-commit-info.sh >>>>>> readlink: ./scripts/extract-commit-info.sh Invalid argument >>>>>> >>>>>> I suggest changing >>>>>> SCRIPT_DIR=`readlink "$0"` || SCRIPT_DIR="$0"; >>>>>> to read >>>>>> SCRIPT_DIR=`readlink "$0" >/dev/null` || SCRIPT_DIR="$0"; >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Esteban >>>>>> >>>>>> On 28 Jan 2014, at 23:15, jannik.laval <jannik.laval(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you, I am trying the latest one. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When compiling for IOS, I have an error in sqSCCSVersion.h >>>>>>> >>>>>>> #include "vmVersionInfo.h" // defines REVISION_STRING >>>>>>> the file is not found. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Anyone knows where is this file ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Jannik >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jan 28, 2014, at 8:58 PM, Pharo4Stef <pharo4Stef(a)free.fr> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> jannik the latest vm is not on gitoruous anymore but git >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 27 Jan 2014, at 22:03, jannik laval <jannik.laval(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hum, have I the correct repository ? >>>>>>>>> I used this one: https://git.gitorious.org/cogvm/cog-osx.git >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> But, I just saw that this one exists: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm >>>>>>>>> I should use it no? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Jannik >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2014-01-27 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> 1.4 and 2.0 worked out of the boxâ¦ and after my latest integration, 3.0 should work too. >>>>>>>>> I will take a look as soon as I have half and hour to spare. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Esteban >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 27 Jan 2014, at 14:27, jannik laval <jannik.laval(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi list, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Does anyone try to load Pharoon iPad ? >>>>>>>>>> In the past, the version 1.4 worked with XCode 4.4. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I just tried to recompile it with the new XCode (5.0.2). >>>>>>>>>> The VM seems to work, but the pharo 1.4 image freezes. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Any idea ? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> ~~Jannik Laval~~ >>>>>>>>>> Ãcole des Mines de Douai >>>>>>>>>> Enseignant-chercheur >>>>>>>>>> http://www.jannik-laval.eu >>>>>>>>>> http://car.mines-douai.fr/ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> ~~Jannik Laval~~ >>>>>>>>> Ãcole des Mines de Douai >>>>>>>>> Enseignant-chercheur >>>>>>>>> http://www.jannik-laval.eu >>>>>>>>> http://car.mines-douai.fr/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> best, >>>>>> Eliot >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> ~~Jannik Laval~~ >>>>> Ãcole des Mines de Douai >>>>> Enseignant-chercheur >>>>> http://www.jannik-laval.eu >>>>> http://car.mines-douai.fr/ >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ~~Jannik Laval~~ >>> Ãcole des Mines de Douai >>> Enseignant-chercheur >>> http://www.jannik-laval.eu >>> http://car.mines-douai.fr/ >>> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ~~Jannik Laval~~ >> Ãcole des Mines de Douai >> Enseignant-chercheur >> http://www.jannik-laval.eu >> http://car.mines-douai.fr/ >> >

Feb. 25, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] New methods for the String class

by Norbert Hartl

Am 25.02.2014 um 00:10 schrieb Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com>: > > > > On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 2:47 PM, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > > Am 24.02.2014 um 23:09 schrieb Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com>: > >> >> On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: >> >> Am 24.02.2014 um 22:19 schrieb Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com>: >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 12:29 PM, Alexandre Bergel<alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: >>> Would be great to have: âConfigurationOfRoassalâ chopCamel => #(âConfigurationâ âOfâ âRoassalâ). >>> >>> 'ConfigurationOfRoassal' piecesCutWhere: [:a :b| a isLowercase and: [b isUppercase]] an OrderedCollection('Configuration' 'Of' 'Roassal') >>> >>> It's too trivial, surely. >>> >> No it is not. Because you have to know about it. Thanks for that one. >> >> "I learned something today[tm]â >> >> But the real things to learn are the Method Finder and the browser. Adding a lot of names that are known to those that know some scripting language du jour, but are incomprehensible to me, and no doubt many others, is not doing anything for anybody, except trying to be pointlessly cool. Trying to encourage programmers to use the ability of the system to self-introspect and self-document is giving them general skills they can build upon. So a project to improve the UI so that programmers are led to tools they can use for discovery seems worth-while to me, while adding yet more short-hand to hand-hold the ignorant isn't helping, IMHO. >> > I agree that adding a lot of names is not helping because that might be the reason I didnât know that selector. What kind of selectors are the right ones Iâm not the one to judge. But to be honest if I think about a collection the selector #piecesCutWhere: is not intuitive to me, too. So Iâm glad you brought that to my attention. > > I get that. All naming is difficult. That there are many different ways to say the same thing in natural language is I think a common problem to many languages, especially English. Just remember the last time you tried to do some free text search for some phrase. Takes me ages to find old messages in email. So even if method is well-named, it likely has only one of a number of plausible good names. And if it has a usefully short nickname (look at unix and lisp, cat & cdr etc) then it must likely be learned by rote. > Oh dear! I was following you until you brought up unix as an example. Ok I stepped into it 1990 and all of those two to three letter acronyms made their way into my backspine so I donât question them. While Iâm knowing that stuff pretty well Iâm far from believing this is a good example. I also use vi now for 24 years and I can achieve a lot with it but again not something I would recommend to anyone looking for a text manipulating engine. > So the issue is not naming; it is how to /find/ functionality. And so in Smalltalk the issue is how to encourage programmers to go find things. The MessageFinder is amazing. But people don't use it. If they did no one would be proposing to add chomp to the standard library. > <old man alert>When I learnt Smalltalk there were several factors that made it easy for me to learn. It was much smaller. I thought it was cool. I had the time to learn it. But when I learnt it the browser was simple, refactoring hadn't been invented, there was no MethodFinder, and there was almost _no_ documentation. Basically I learnt it by playing with it, exploring it, reading it, building it.</old man alert> > These are complaints of an old man :) I understand that because I think you are only slightly older than me. But to be honest the computation world was _much_ easier in the old days. There was more room to focus on the real problems computation wise. Today it is hard to see that the problems are still the same as they were years before just on another scale. The field of application of technology has exploded and it is hard to see for newcomers that they all boil down to a much smaller amount of problems to solve. Talking about the language we also need to see that it is not only a difficulty of the language but that languages are moving, they are not static. And so renaming of selectors might benefit the actual usage of language. Letâs see this straight. We are old hat and we should resist being grumpy old men. Well, I love statler and waldorf (if anyone remembers) and most of the time Iâm acting like being both in one person. But again not a good example. > So why aren't people taking the time to learn it today? Is it the system's fault? Is it too big? Are the readable parts of the system non-existent, or too difficult to find? Is it some cultural change that means people can't learn such systems any more? Was it only learnable by a few people back in the day and it remains unsuitable for a mass audience? Is it impossible to design user interfaces that invite exploration? Do people no longer want to play with the system but instead want to use it to get something done fast, and can't spare the time to learn it properly? Are computing languages like English, and every programming language must adopt the conventions and vocabulary of the most popular? Is inheritance too hard to navigate to discover that SequenceableCollection has lots of useful String mehtods, and some useful methods on ByteString are in String, etc? > I think it needs time. Iâm now nearly doing smalltalk full time for 10 years and I still donât know a lot of things in the image. Iâm learning when I have a problem to solve. And yes, I would wish I would have more time to learn those things. I was always interested in virtual machines butâ¦sad but true I didnât make it the last years and I donât think this will change in the coming years. > I think suggestions that one add functionality that already exists in the system point to some interesting issues. And I think someone with an HCI or UI bent might get somewhere approaching these questions systematically. > Maybe there is a way of making better UIs and leave people explore on their own. There is another possibility and that is education. And by giving an example how to do it you already solved the problem the educative way. This works for sure ;) All the best, Norbert > > thanks again, > > you're welcome :-) > > > Norbert > >> >> Norbert >> >>> >>> Alexandre >>> >>> >>> On Feb 24, 2014, at 2:30 PM, Daniela Meneses <daniela11290(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> > Hi to all, >>> > >>> > As you may know I'm working on in some improvements for the String class. Until now I implemented some missing tests. Right now I'm looking forward to add new methods that could be useful based on Ruby API (http://www.ruby-doc.org/core-2.1.0/String.html) These are a few of the methods that I'm planning to implement: >>> > >>> > â¢ chomp(separator=$/) -> new_str >>> > â¢ chop() -> new_str >>> > â¢ ljust(integer, padstr='') ->new_str >>> > â¢ next -> new_str >>> > â¢ partition(sep) -> [head, sep, tail] >>> > >>> > Could you help to find out if these methods are already available for the String class? >>> > >>> > If you have any idea of new methods for the string class, will be really welcome. >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Cheers, >>> > Daniela Meneses >>> >>> -- >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> best, >>> Eliot >> >> >> >> >> -- >> best, >> Eliot > > > > > -- > best, > Eliot

Feb. 25, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] New methods for the String class

by Eliot Miranda

On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 2:47 PM, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > > Am 24.02.2014 um 23:09 schrieb Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com>: > > > On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > >> >> Am 24.02.2014 um 22:19 schrieb Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com>: >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 12:29 PM, Alexandre Bergel< >> alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: >> >>> Would be great to have: 'ConfigurationOfRoassal' chopCamel => >>> #('Configuration' 'Of' 'Roassal'). >>> >> >> 'ConfigurationOfRoassal' piecesCutWhere: [:a :b| a isLowercase and: [b >> isUppercase]] an OrderedCollection('Configuration' 'Of' 'Roassal') >> >> It's too trivial, surely. >> >> >> No it is not. Because you have to know about it. Thanks for that one. >> >> "I learned something today[tm]" >> > > But the real things to learn are the Method Finder and the browser. > Adding a lot of names that are known to those that know some scripting > language du jour, but are incomprehensible to me, and no doubt many others, > is not doing anything for anybody, except trying to be pointlessly cool. > Trying to encourage programmers to use the ability of the system to > self-introspect and self-document is giving them general skills they can > build upon. So a project to improve the UI so that programmers are led to > tools they can use for discovery seems worth-while to me, while adding yet > more short-hand to hand-hold the ignorant isn't helping, IMHO. > > I agree that adding a lot of names is not helping because that might be > the reason I didn't know that selector. What kind of selectors are the > right ones I'm not the one to judge. But to be honest if I think about a > collection the selector #piecesCutWhere: is not intuitive to me, too. So > I'm glad you brought that to my attention. > I get that. All naming is difficult. That there are many different ways to say the same thing in natural language is I think a common problem to many languages, especially English. Just remember the last time you tried to do some free text search for some phrase. Takes me ages to find old messages in email. So even if method is well-named, it likely has only one of a number of plausible good names. And if it has a usefully short nickname (look at unix and lisp, cat & cdr etc) then it must likely be learned by rote. So the issue is not naming; it is how to /find/ functionality. And so in Smalltalk the issue is how to encourage programmers to go find things. The MessageFinder is amazing. But people don't use it. If they did no one would be proposing to add chomp to the standard library. <old man alert>When I learnt Smalltalk there were several factors that made it easy for me to learn. It was much smaller. I thought it was cool. I had the time to learn it. But when I learnt it the browser was simple, refactoring hadn't been invented, there was no MethodFinder, and there was almost _no_ documentation. Basically I learnt it by playing with it, exploring it, reading it, building it.</old man alert> So why aren't people taking the time to learn it today? Is it the system's fault? Is it too big? Are the readable parts of the system non-existent, or too difficult to find? Is it some cultural change that means people can't learn such systems any more? Was it only learnable by a few people back in the day and it remains unsuitable for a mass audience? Is it impossible to design user interfaces that invite exploration? Do people no longer want to play with the system but instead want to use it to get something done fast, and can't spare the time to learn it properly? Are computing languages like English, and every programming language must adopt the conventions and vocabulary of the most popular? Is inheritance too hard to navigate to discover that SequenceableCollection has lots of useful String mehtods, and some useful methods on ByteString are in String, etc? I think suggestions that one add functionality that already exists in the system point to some interesting issues. And I think someone with an HCI or UI bent might get somewhere approaching these questions systematically. > thanks again, > you're welcome :-) > > Norbert > > >> Norbert >> >> >>> Alexandre >>> >>> >>> On Feb 24, 2014, at 2:30 PM, Daniela Meneses <daniela11290(a)gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> > Hi to all, >>> > >>> > As you may know I'm working on in some improvements for the String >>> class. Until now I implemented some missing tests. Right now I'm looking >>> forward to add new methods that could be useful based on Ruby API ( >>> http://www.ruby-doc.org/core-2.1.0/String.html) These are a few of the >>> methods that I'm planning to implement: >>> > >>> > * chomp(separator=$/) -> new_str >>> > * chop() -> new_str >>> > * ljust(integer, padstr='') ->new_str >>> > * next -> new_str >>> > * partition(sep) -> [head, sep, tail] >>> > >>> > Could you help to find out if these methods are already available for >>> the String class? >>> > >>> > If you have any idea of new methods for the string class, will be >>> really welcome. >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Cheers, >>> > Daniela Meneses >>> >>> -- >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> best, >> Eliot >> >> >> > > > -- > best, > Eliot > > > -- best, Eliot

Feb. 25, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] New methods for the String class

by Carlo

Not to hijack this thread but just noticed that piecesCutWhere: is implemented in Collection under Pharo and under SequencableCollection under Squeak. Need to check against latest Pharo3 but this should be changed in Pharo as piecesCutWhere: implementation depends on object being of type SequencableCollection. Cheers Carlo On 25 Feb 2014, at 12:47 AM, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: Am 24.02.2014 um 23:09 schrieb Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com>: > > > > On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > > Am 24.02.2014 um 22:19 schrieb Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com>: > >> >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 12:29 PM, Alexandre Bergel<alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: >> Would be great to have: âConfigurationOfRoassalâ chopCamel => #(âConfigurationâ âOfâ âRoassalâ). >> >> 'ConfigurationOfRoassal' piecesCutWhere: [:a :b| a isLowercase and: [b isUppercase]] an OrderedCollection('Configuration' 'Of' 'Roassal') >> >> It's too trivial, surely. >> > No it is not. Because you have to know about it. Thanks for that one. > > "I learned something today[tm]â > > But the real things to learn are the Method Finder and the browser. Adding a lot of names that are known to those that know some scripting language du jour, but are incomprehensible to me, and no doubt many others, is not doing anything for anybody, except trying to be pointlessly cool. Trying to encourage programmers to use the ability of the system to self-introspect and self-document is giving them general skills they can build upon. So a project to improve the UI so that programmers are led to tools they can use for discovery seems worth-while to me, while adding yet more short-hand to hand-hold the ignorant isn't helping, IMHO. > I agree that adding a lot of names is not helping because that might be the reason I didnât know that selector. What kind of selectors are the right ones Iâm not the one to judge. But to be honest if I think about a collection the selector #piecesCutWhere: is not intuitive to me, too. So Iâm glad you brought that to my attention. thanks again, Norbert > > Norbert > >> >> Alexandre >> >> >> On Feb 24, 2014, at 2:30 PM, Daniela Meneses <daniela11290(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > Hi to all, >> > >> > As you may know I'm working on in some improvements for the String class. Until now I implemented some missing tests. Right now I'm looking forward to add new methods that could be useful based on Ruby API (http://www.ruby-doc.org/core-2.1.0/String.html) These are a few of the methods that I'm planning to implement: >> > >> > â¢ chomp(separator=$/) -> new_str >> > â¢ chop() -> new_str >> > â¢ ljust(integer, padstr='') ->new_str >> > â¢ next -> new_str >> > â¢ partition(sep) -> [head, sep, tail] >> > >> > Could you help to find out if these methods are already available for the String class? >> > >> > If you have any idea of new methods for the string class, will be really welcome. >> > >> > -- >> > Cheers, >> > Daniela Meneses >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> best, >> Eliot > > > > > -- > best, > Eliot

Feb. 25, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] New methods for the String class

by Norbert Hartl

Am 24.02.2014 um 23:09 schrieb Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com>: > > > > On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > > Am 24.02.2014 um 22:19 schrieb Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com>: > >> >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 12:29 PM, Alexandre Bergel<alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: >> Would be great to have: âConfigurationOfRoassalâ chopCamel => #(âConfigurationâ âOfâ âRoassalâ). >> >> 'ConfigurationOfRoassal' piecesCutWhere: [:a :b| a isLowercase and: [b isUppercase]] an OrderedCollection('Configuration' 'Of' 'Roassal') >> >> It's too trivial, surely. >> > No it is not. Because you have to know about it. Thanks for that one. > > "I learned something today[tm]â > > But the real things to learn are the Method Finder and the browser. Adding a lot of names that are known to those that know some scripting language du jour, but are incomprehensible to me, and no doubt many others, is not doing anything for anybody, except trying to be pointlessly cool. Trying to encourage programmers to use the ability of the system to self-introspect and self-document is giving them general skills they can build upon. So a project to improve the UI so that programmers are led to tools they can use for discovery seems worth-while to me, while adding yet more short-hand to hand-hold the ignorant isn't helping, IMHO. > I agree that adding a lot of names is not helping because that might be the reason I didnât know that selector. What kind of selectors are the right ones Iâm not the one to judge. But to be honest if I think about a collection the selector #piecesCutWhere: is not intuitive to me, too. So Iâm glad you brought that to my attention. thanks again, Norbert > > Norbert > >> >> Alexandre >> >> >> On Feb 24, 2014, at 2:30 PM, Daniela Meneses <daniela11290(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > Hi to all, >> > >> > As you may know I'm working on in some improvements for the String class. Until now I implemented some missing tests. Right now I'm looking forward to add new methods that could be useful based on Ruby API (http://www.ruby-doc.org/core-2.1.0/String.html) These are a few of the methods that I'm planning to implement: >> > >> > â¢ chomp(separator=$/) -> new_str >> > â¢ chop() -> new_str >> > â¢ ljust(integer, padstr='') ->new_str >> > â¢ next -> new_str >> > â¢ partition(sep) -> [head, sep, tail] >> > >> > Could you help to find out if these methods are already available for the String class? >> > >> > If you have any idea of new methods for the string class, will be really welcome. >> > >> > -- >> > Cheers, >> > Daniela Meneses >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> best, >> Eliot > > > > > -- > best, > Eliot

Feb. 24, 2014