- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo-Business: a new mailing-list

by Esteban A. Maringolo

I don't see the point of having another list, I don't see many business related topics going on in the dev or users lists. In fact they have moderate traffic (and could even converge). However, if the idea is to foster business talk, maybe a separate list is okay. I'm in. Esteban A. Maringolo 2014-02-26 17:45 GMT-03:00 Santiago Bragagnolo <santiagobragagnolo(a)gmail.com>: > Make a list where the main point is about industry issues, share knowledge > and experience about general implications of pharo in a full project. > Recommend frameworks for specific domains. And then also soft knowledge, > know who is working with pharo in business to know to who ask for help in > case of over. > > What we will gain is as beginning, order in our knowledge database. Then > knowledge related with pharo but not from technical point, but business. > > Finally, the Pharo powered is about 'branding'. In both cases we are getting > knowledge scoped and ordered and almost free, more visible movement related. > > > > > > > 2014-02-26 21:27 GMT+01:00 Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com>: > >> Hi Stef, >> >> Can you explain what's the purpose of this list? >> >> I don't fully get it. What is to be discussed there? Market for Pharo? >> Derived businesses from pharo? (like pharocloud?). >> >> Thank you! >> >> >> Regards! >> Esteban A. Maringolo >> >> >> 2014-02-26 16:05 GMT-03:00 Pharo4Stef <pharo4Stef(a)free.fr>: >> > Dear Pharoers and Smalltalkers from all over the world >> > >> > We would really like to push business in our community and we believe >> > that it is important to create a community around business questions. >> > We created a new mailing-list >> > >> > >> > http://lists.pharo.org/mailman/listinfo/pharo-business_lists.pharo.org >> > >> > The idea is to identify >> > - potential market >> > - missing technical solutions that we could build together >> > - share technical assets from a business perspective (which >> > frameworks for what). >> > >> > We hope that you will like the idea and that more business can emerge! >> > >> >

Feb. 26, 2014

How to upload some version from the package-cache to a StHub project

by Gabriel Cotelli

Hi, I have a whole package history in my local package cache and I want to upload it to a new SmalltalkHub project. I've tried using the Monticello browser but it insists in creating a new version of the package when I do the "Save" to the new repository. Is there some option to do something like this? Or some script? I don't want to loose the history. Regards, Gabriel

Feb. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo is cool

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 5:50 PM, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > > Am 26.02.2014 um 21:37 schrieb Mariano Martinez Peck < > marianopeck(a)gmail.com>: > > > > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 5:30 PM, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > >> >> Am 26.02.2014 um 21:21 schrieb Mariano Martinez Peck < >> marianopeck(a)gmail.com>: >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 3:53 PM, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name>wrote: >> >>> >>> Am 26.02.2014 um 14:38 schrieb Mariano Martinez Peck < >>> marianopeck(a)gmail.com>: >>> >>> Just be careful 2: "I switched one of my servers to dump to stack with >>> fuel to disk if an exception occurs. " >>> Once it happened to me the stack I was taking for serializing an error >>> was too big. Too big because it even reached the UI. The UI has lots of >>> sensible objects that change quite frequently. So my graph to serialize was >>> big and the graph changed quite frequently. Result: Fuel throwing error >>> because the graph to serialize changed while being serialized. >>> Oh...exception? Fuel out exception! exception. Oh exception? ... >>> >>> Good point, thanks! >>> >>> So yeah..the fact that Fuel was throwing an error causes a loop so be >>> careful of that as well. >>> >>> If the serialization fails I just consider it an unrecoverable error and >>> proceed. I will add a logging message for that case so I can at least so >>> when something does not working while fueling out the stack. >>> >>> >> Forgot... "just be careful 3": it may happen that you cannot correctly *materialize >> (not serialization)* the graph: a method has changed, a class is >> missing..whatever... So what I did in the fuel out of failure tests is to >> add to the serializer header all the info (as plain strings) that we >> normally have in the PharoDebug.log. This "header" will always be able to >> be materialized.... this way, I don't have the risk of not being able to >> materialize and hence loose info, and yet I don't need PharoDebug.log as >> well. If you don't do what I did, then you likely need also pharoDebug.log >> just in case... >> >> That is unlikely to happen. My workflow is that every deployed image goes >> through the CI server. If a problem arises I download that same image from >> the CI server and load the stacks back into this. Everything is else is >> IMHO asking for trouble because contexts won't map properly. >> >> > > +9999. That's the safest thing to do: use an image with the same "code" as > the one that failed. > > >> I recommend everyone interested in this topic to take a look to: >> #serializeTestFailureContext:toFileNamed: >> >> That is what I am using because it does what I want to happen. It is only >> the selector that doesn't fit that well :) >> >> thanks a lot for this information Mariano. This is highly appreciated to >> get infos from someone that knows the stuff. >> >> > No problem. > > Just be careful 4: do not trust 100% of the ability to debug a post > morten. It should be considered "just as another extra tool to the > PharoDebug.log". But debugging a stack with Fuel could even be different > than the scenario that caused the error. Imagine class variables that > changed value, files/socktets or something that depended on external > resources, etc etc etc. What I mean is...the debug of a materialized fuel > stack may not be the same as debugging the error at the exact time it was > produced in the very same image it happened. But it is a great addition to > PharoDebug.log for several use cases where it helps anyway. > > Mariano, I admire your ability to offer all the precautions someone can > think of. > Because I've been there in this case ;) > Maybe it is because it involves a tool you did on your own. Thanks for > that. But for me the choice is easy. Having a fueled out stack is soooo > much better than textual log files so that I need to come up with a lot of > drawbacks until it wouldn't be worth using that. > +9999. That's why I recommend everybody to use this approach taking the necessary precautions. It does not harm at all and likely help a lot. > The side effects of having shared state is nothing that fuel introduces. > If you get a debugger in your image and go back a few frames/contexts/time > you cannot see the content of the objects at that time because they could > have changed. > indeed...that's why I said "in the exact time it was produced.." > I would wish, too, we would have a debugger that snapshots all state and > is able to "really" go back. But at the moment we don't have it. So it is > nothing fuel can solve. Fuel is just a wonderful tool that is capable of > making stupid tasks less stupid to handle. > > Completrly agree!!! nice quote btw! > thanks again :) > > No problem. You know that serializing/materializing a debugger was one of the coolest things I ever did. I was on my table, at Douai, thinking about examples to present Fuel in the ESUG Awards 2011. I remember my wife was sit in the couch and I said "Flor...what if I serialize the debugger!!!" . It took me 5 minutes to try it. I was sure it was going to fail...couldn't be so good for the first time. And surprisly....it worked out of the box. I couldn't believe it. I said...."ok...I have everything I need for ESUG" :) So yes, I very much like this feature! Also...it was the topic people outside the Smalltalk community commented the most about Fuel... of course...this is not just Fuel...it is Smalltalk that has contexts reified as objects and all it meta capabilities! Norbert > > > > Best, > > >> Norbert >> >> Cheers, >> >> >> >>> thanks, >>> >>> Norbert >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 10:28 AM, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name>wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Am 26.02.2014 um 14:19 schrieb Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com>: >>>> >>>> > Cool! :) >>>> > >>>> > Just be careful: if you're using a large model the stack can blow up >>>> your image with a low space warning / make it inresponsive (because the >>>> stack referenes your model and boom, pretty much all of your instances will >>>> becom serialized). >>>> > >>>> Yes, I know. But that would be a problem anyway. I think I have time. >>>> In the fuel files are 8 (!) contexts. :) >>>> >>>> Norbert >>>> >>>> > FYI we're actively working on pruning of the serialization graph to >>>> solve this. >>>> > >>>> > Max >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > On 26.02.2014, at 14:01, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: >>>> > >>>> >> The best smalltalk/pharo moments you get if you try things you want >>>> to have just in order to see they are already there. >>>> >> >>>> >> Today FileBrowser. >>>> >> I switched one of my servers to dump to stack with fuel to disk if >>>> an exception occurs. Today I copied the files from the server to my local >>>> machine and opened a workspace starting to write an expression to open >>>> them. Then I thought it would be cool if I could use the file browser for >>>> it. So I opened it and navigated to the directory with the fuel files...et >>>> voilÃ ...as soon as I clicked on a fuel file a button "materialize" appeared >>>> which showed the stack from the server right away. >>>> >> >>>> >> Just brilliant! Well done! >>>> >> >>>> >> Norbert >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Mariano >>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Mariano >> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >> >> >> > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Feb. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [fun] Sparkline in Pharo

by Norbert Hartl

Can you tell what these sparklines have to do with unicode? Btw. I would like to attend this unicode workshop :) Norbert Am 26.02.2014 um 21:40 schrieb Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com>: > Hi! > > I am playing with unicode characters: > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > Gofer new > url: 'http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/abergel/Sparkline/main'; > addPackage: 'Sparkline'; > load. > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > #( 1 2 3 4) spark => 'âââââ > #(-5 10 0) spark => 'âââ' > RxsNode withAllSubclasses spark: #numberOfMethods => 'âââââââââââââ > > <Screen Shot 2014-02-26 at 5.18.30 PM.png> > > I got the inspiration from https://github.com/holman/spark > > By the way, I would love to have a short tutorial about unicode characters at esug. > > Cheers, > Alexandre > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > >

Feb. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo is cool

by Norbert Hartl

Am 26.02.2014 um 21:37 schrieb Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com>: > > > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 5:30 PM, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > > Am 26.02.2014 um 21:21 schrieb Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com>: > >> >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 3:53 PM, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: >> >> Am 26.02.2014 um 14:38 schrieb Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com>: >> >>> Just be careful 2: "I switched one of my servers to dump to stack with fuel to disk if an exception occurs. " >>> Once it happened to me the stack I was taking for serializing an error was too big. Too big because it even reached the UI. The UI has lots of sensible objects that change quite frequently. So my graph to serialize was big and the graph changed quite frequently. Result: Fuel throwing error because the graph to serialize changed while being serialized. Oh...exception? Fuel out exception! exception. Oh exception? ... >>> >> Good point, thanks! >> >>> So yeah..the fact that Fuel was throwing an error causes a loop so be careful of that as well. >>> >> If the serialization fails I just consider it an unrecoverable error and proceed. I will add a logging message for that case so I can at least so when something does not working while fueling out the stack. >> >> >> Forgot... "just be careful 3": it may happen that you cannot correctly materialize (not serialization) the graph: a method has changed, a class is missing..whatever... So what I did in the fuel out of failure tests is to add to the serializer header all the info (as plain strings) that we normally have in the PharoDebug.log. This "header" will always be able to be materialized.... this way, I don't have the risk of not being able to materialize and hence loose info, and yet I don't need PharoDebug.log as well. If you don't do what I did, then you likely need also pharoDebug.log just in case... >> > That is unlikely to happen. My workflow is that every deployed image goes through the CI server. If a problem arises I download that same image from the CI server and load the stacks back into this. Everything is else is IMHO asking for trouble because contexts wonât map properly. > > > > +9999. That's the safest thing to do: use an image with the same "code" as the one that failed. > >> I recommend everyone interested in this topic to take a look to: #serializeTestFailureContext:toFileNamed: >> > That is what I am using because it does what I want to happen. It is only the selector that doesnât fit that well :) > > thanks a lot for this information Mariano. This is highly appreciated to get infos from someone that knows the stuff. > > > No problem. > > Just be careful 4: do not trust 100% of the ability to debug a post morten. It should be considered "just as another extra tool to the PharoDebug.log". But debugging a stack with Fuel could even be different than the scenario that caused the error. Imagine class variables that changed value, files/socktets or something that depended on external resources, etc etc etc. What I mean is...the debug of a materialized fuel stack may not be the same as debugging the error at the exact time it was produced in the very same image it happened. But it is a great addition to PharoDebug.log for several use cases where it helps anyway. > Mariano, I admire your ability to offer all the precautions someone can think of. Maybe it is because it involves a tool you did on your own. Thanks for that. But for me the choice is easy. Having a fueled out stack is soooo much better than textual log files so that I need to come up with a lot of drawbacks until it wouldnât be worth using that. The side effects of having shared state is nothing that fuel introduces. If you get a debugger in your image and go back a few frames/contexts/time you cannot see the content of the objects at that time because they could have changed. I would wish, too, we would have a debugger that snapshots all state and is able to âreallyâ go back. But at the moment we donât have it. So it is nothing fuel can solve. Fuel is just a wonderful tool that is capable of making stupid tasks less stupid to handle. thanks again :) Norbert > Best, > > Norbert > >> Cheers, >> >> >> thanks, >> >> Norbert >> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 10:28 AM, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: >>> >>> Am 26.02.2014 um 14:19 schrieb Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com>: >>> >>> > Cool! :) >>> > >>> > Just be careful: if youâre using a large model the stack can blow up your image with a low space warning / make it inresponsive (because the stack referenes your model and boom, pretty much all of your instances will becom serialized). >>> > >>> Yes, I know. But that would be a problem anyway. I think I have time. In the fuel files are 8 (!) contexts. :) >>> >>> Norbert >>> >>> > FYI weâre actively working on pruning of the serialization graph to solve this. >>> > >>> > Max >>> > >>> > >>> > On 26.02.2014, at 14:01, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: >>> > >>> >> The best smalltalk/pharo moments you get if you try things you want to have just in order to see they are already there. >>> >> >>> >> Today FileBrowser. >>> >> I switched one of my servers to dump to stack with fuel to disk if an exception occurs. Today I copied the files from the server to my local machine and opened a workspace starting to write an expression to open them. Then I thought it would be cool if I could use the file browser for it. So I opened it and navigated to the directory with the fuel filesâ¦et voilÃ â¦as soon as I clicked on a fuel file a button âmaterializeâ appeared which showed the stack from the server right away. >>> >> >>> >> Just brilliant! Well done! >>> >> >>> >> Norbert >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Mariano >>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Mariano >> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Feb. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo-Business: a new mailing-list

by Santiago Bragagnolo

there is nothing already done for lists in any smalltalk?? 2014-02-26 21:41 GMT+01:00 Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name>: > > Am 26.02.2014 um 21:33 schrieb askoh <askoh(a)askoh.com>: > > > We should use something Smalltalk Powered instead of Python Powered for > the > > list. > > > I like to completely disagree. If you need to write every software in your > own language before you can use it you won't achieve much IMHO. There is > pretty decent software to use for all sorts of applications. And it is fine > if it is written in another language. Let's use this python thingie > because there is no smalltalk replacement at this time and we don't need to > be in every corner of the industry. Let us concentrate on the areas where > we truly excel. > > my 2 cents, > > Norbert > > >

Feb. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo-Business: a new mailing-list

by Santiago Bragagnolo

Make a list where the main point is about industry issues, share knowledge and experience about general implications of pharo in a full project. Recommend frameworks for specific domains. And then also soft knowledge, know who is working with pharo in business to know to who ask for help in case of over. What we will gain is as beginning, order in our knowledge database. Then knowledge related with pharo but not from technical point, but business. Finally, the Pharo powered is about 'branding'. In both cases we are getting knowledge scoped and ordered and almost free, more visible movement related. 2014-02-26 21:27 GMT+01:00 Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com>: > Hi Stef, > > Can you explain what's the purpose of this list? > > I don't fully get it. What is to be discussed there? Market for Pharo? > Derived businesses from pharo? (like pharocloud?). > > Thank you! > > > Regards! > Esteban A. Maringolo > > > 2014-02-26 16:05 GMT-03:00 Pharo4Stef <pharo4Stef(a)free.fr>: > > Dear Pharoers and Smalltalkers from all over the world > > > > We would really like to push business in our community and we believe > that it is important to create a community around business questions. > > We created a new mailing-list > > > > > http://lists.pharo.org/mailman/listinfo/pharo-business_lists.pharo.org > > > > The idea is to identify > > - potential market > > - missing technical solutions that we could build together > > - share technical assets from a business perspective (which > frameworks for what). > > > > We hope that you will like the idea and that more business can emerge! > > > >

Feb. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo-Business: a new mailing-list

by Norbert Hartl

Am 26.02.2014 um 21:33 schrieb askoh <askoh(a)askoh.com>: > We should use something Smalltalk Powered instead of Python Powered for the > list. > I like to completely disagree. If you need to write every software in your own language before you can use it you wonât achieve much IMHO. There is pretty decent software to use for all sorts of applications. And it is fine if it is written in another language. Letâs use this python thingie because there is no smalltalk replacement at this time and we donât need to be in every corner of the industry. Let us concentrate on the areas where we truly excel. my 2 cents, Norbert

Feb. 26, 2014

[fun] Sparkline in Pharo

by Alexandre Bergel

Hi! I am playing with unicode characters: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Gofer new url: 'http://smalltalkhub.com/mc/abergel/Sparkline/main'; addPackage: 'Sparkline'; load. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= #( 1 2 3 4) spark => 'âââââ #(-5 10 0) spark => 'âââ' RxsNode withAllSubclasses spark: #numberOfMethods => 'âââââââââââââ I got the inspiration from https://github.com/holman/spark By the way, I would love to have a short tutorial about unicode characters at esug. Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Feb. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo is cool

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 5:30 PM, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > > Am 26.02.2014 um 21:21 schrieb Mariano Martinez Peck < > marianopeck(a)gmail.com>: > > > > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 3:53 PM, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > >> >> Am 26.02.2014 um 14:38 schrieb Mariano Martinez Peck < >> marianopeck(a)gmail.com>: >> >> Just be careful 2: "I switched one of my servers to dump to stack with >> fuel to disk if an exception occurs. " >> Once it happened to me the stack I was taking for serializing an error >> was too big. Too big because it even reached the UI. The UI has lots of >> sensible objects that change quite frequently. So my graph to serialize was >> big and the graph changed quite frequently. Result: Fuel throwing error >> because the graph to serialize changed while being serialized. >> Oh...exception? Fuel out exception! exception. Oh exception? ... >> >> Good point, thanks! >> >> So yeah..the fact that Fuel was throwing an error causes a loop so be >> careful of that as well. >> >> If the serialization fails I just consider it an unrecoverable error and >> proceed. I will add a logging message for that case so I can at least so >> when something does not working while fueling out the stack. >> >> > Forgot... "just be careful 3": it may happen that you cannot correctly *materialize > (not serialization)* the graph: a method has changed, a class is > missing..whatever... So what I did in the fuel out of failure tests is to > add to the serializer header all the info (as plain strings) that we > normally have in the PharoDebug.log. This "header" will always be able to > be materialized.... this way, I don't have the risk of not being able to > materialize and hence loose info, and yet I don't need PharoDebug.log as > well. If you don't do what I did, then you likely need also pharoDebug.log > just in case... > > That is unlikely to happen. My workflow is that every deployed image goes > through the CI server. If a problem arises I download that same image from > the CI server and load the stacks back into this. Everything is else is > IMHO asking for trouble because contexts won't map properly. > > +9999. That's the safest thing to do: use an image with the same "code" as the one that failed. > I recommend everyone interested in this topic to take a look to: > #serializeTestFailureContext:toFileNamed: > > That is what I am using because it does what I want to happen. It is only > the selector that doesn't fit that well :) > > thanks a lot for this information Mariano. This is highly appreciated to > get infos from someone that knows the stuff. > > No problem. Just be careful 4: do not trust 100% of the ability to debug a post morten. It should be considered "just as another extra tool to the PharoDebug.log". But debugging a stack with Fuel could even be different than the scenario that caused the error. Imagine class variables that changed value, files/socktets or something that depended on external resources, etc etc etc. What I mean is...the debug of a materialized fuel stack may not be the same as debugging the error at the exact time it was produced in the very same image it happened. But it is a great addition to PharoDebug.log for several use cases where it helps anyway. Best, > Norbert > > Cheers, > > > >> thanks, >> >> Norbert >> >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 10:28 AM, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name>wrote: >> >>> >>> Am 26.02.2014 um 14:19 schrieb Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com>: >>> >>> > Cool! :) >>> > >>> > Just be careful: if you're using a large model the stack can blow up >>> your image with a low space warning / make it inresponsive (because the >>> stack referenes your model and boom, pretty much all of your instances will >>> becom serialized). >>> > >>> Yes, I know. But that would be a problem anyway. I think I have time. In >>> the fuel files are 8 (!) contexts. :) >>> >>> Norbert >>> >>> > FYI we're actively working on pruning of the serialization graph to >>> solve this. >>> > >>> > Max >>> > >>> > >>> > On 26.02.2014, at 14:01, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: >>> > >>> >> The best smalltalk/pharo moments you get if you try things you want >>> to have just in order to see they are already there. >>> >> >>> >> Today FileBrowser. >>> >> I switched one of my servers to dump to stack with fuel to disk if an >>> exception occurs. Today I copied the files from the server to my local >>> machine and opened a workspace starting to write an expression to open >>> them. Then I thought it would be cool if I could use the file browser for >>> it. So I opened it and navigated to the directory with the fuel files...et >>> voilÃ ...as soon as I clicked on a fuel file a button "materialize" appeared >>> which showed the stack from the server right away. >>> >> >>> >> Just brilliant! Well done! >>> >> >>> >> Norbert >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Mariano >> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >> >> >> > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Feb. 26, 2014