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Re: [Pharo-dev] VistaCursors are killing my LinuxVM (beCursor primitive failing)

by Nicolai Hess

2014-03-29 18:08 GMT+01:00 Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com>: > > > > On 28 March 2014 22:18, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> wrote: > >> Yes we have this issue: >> >> 12960 <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?12960> >> Primitive 101 (Cursor beCursor) fails on Ubuntu >> >> we just need someone who can edit the pharo vm build config. >> >> >> "We just need to enable xrender support in the vm build config" > i haven't seen anything related to 'xrender support' in configs, despite i > was one > of those who made those configs originally.. :) > can you elaborate, what exactly you talking about? > > > >> >> >> >> 2014-03-28 18:52 GMT+01:00 phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be>: >> >> I moved a windows image with VistaCursors to Linux and the beCursor >>> primitive failed, leading to a white screen opening. >>> >>> Maybe this is because the cursors are bigger than the 16x16 form. >>> >>> I saw discussions of this being fixed in Squeak. Are we having this >>> issue in Pharo? >>> >>> Phil >>> >> >> > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. > Thats the problem, no -DHAVE_LIBXRENDER and no -lXrender (don't know exaclty how this gets enabled, some cmake rules?) Maybe I choosed the wrong words: Change the config, so that xrender support gets enabled. squnixX11.c: static sqInt display_ioSetCursorARGB(sqInt cursorBitsIndex, sqInt extentX, sqInt extentY, sqInt offsetX, sqInt offsetY) { #if defined(HAVE_LIBXRENDER) && (RENDER_MAJOR > 0 || RENDER_MINOR >= 5) ... return 1; #else return 0; #endif } Nicolai

March 29, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

by Igor Stasenko

Yes. It is harmful to throw away semantic in favor of high-level abstractions. As well as opposite.. You need to use (and master) both. IMO smalltalk environment, as such, is capable to demonstrate that is is possible to achieve this golden middle, where abstraction(s) meet low-level semantics, without competing each other. Hence, of course, my contribution to it - NativeBoost, because this is my vision. On 29 March 2014 19:02, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: > I was using Pharo today for a maths expo that my wife organized for her > school day. > > Feedback from the whiz kids: > > "That nice if one wants to control its environment. > > But I am learning C first because I want to understand how the machine > works and I got lost by using all kinds of languages and mastering none. > (He uses Python, C, C# and had a run on Pharo on his own)." > > So, Pharo + PharoVM + NB + Slang could be a good combo. > > Phil > Le 29 mars 2014 18:41, "Igor Stasenko" <siguctua(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit : > > >> >> >> On 29 March 2014 18:35, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Sure he is repeating things. And sure he is reinventing half of what we >>> already have. >>> >>> However, he is likely to get more traction because he reinvents the UI, >>> not the core concepts. You could say it is not an essential contribution. >>> But, it is. >>> >>> >> The general misconception is that visual manipulation with objects can >> fully replace the coding. It won't and never will. Except from very simple >> cases (like computing the average :) >> You can try to visually express things like branching, conditional loops, >> common programming patterns, but i doubt you will find it convenient to >> program it in "visual" way rather than coding. >> >> >>> Doru >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 6:28 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com>wrote: >>> >>>> Sure, guy just repeating almost same thesis as in the original Self >>>> demo dated back in '95, >>>> "direct manipulation with objects errr.. data".. >>>> except that now in crappy web-based environment.. and still missing the >>>> point.. >>>> because it is not about data, it is about objects. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 29 March 2014 18:20, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Beautiful demo. This should be our game, yet others are playing it :(. >>>>> >>>>> Doru >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 29 Mar 2014, at 10:38, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> > This is a nice write down: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://www.chris-granger.com/2014/03/27/toward-a-better-programming/ >>>>>> > >>>>>> > with a nice demo of a prototype: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6iUm_Cqx2s >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Luckily, the horrible C++ code computing standard deviation in the >>>>>> article can be written quite elegantly and directly in Pharo: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > | input | >>>>>> > input := #(2 4 4 4 5 5 7 9). >>>>>> > (((input - input average) raisedTo: 2) sum / (input size - 1)) sort. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Sven >>>>>> >>>>>> Damn spelling correction ;-) >>>>>> >>>>>> | input | >>>>>> input := #(2 4 4 4 5 5 7 9). >>>>>> (((input - input average) raisedTo: 2) sum / (input size - 1)) sqrt. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>> >>>>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Best regards, >>>> Igor Stasenko. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> >>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Igor Stasenko. >> > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

March 29, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

by phil＠highoctane.be

I was using Pharo today for a maths expo that my wife organized for her school day. Feedback from the whiz kids: "That nice if one wants to control its environment. But I am learning C first because I want to understand how the machine works and I got lost by using all kinds of languages and mastering none. (He uses Python, C, C# and had a run on Pharo on his own)." So, Pharo + PharoVM + NB + Slang could be a good combo. Phil Le 29 mars 2014 18:41, "Igor Stasenko" <siguctua(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit : > > > > On 29 March 2014 18:35, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Sure he is repeating things. And sure he is reinventing half of what we >> already have. >> >> However, he is likely to get more traction because he reinvents the UI, >> not the core concepts. You could say it is not an essential contribution. >> But, it is. >> >> > The general misconception is that visual manipulation with objects can > fully replace the coding. It won't and never will. Except from very simple > cases (like computing the average :) > You can try to visually express things like branching, conditional loops, > common programming patterns, but i doubt you will find it convenient to > program it in "visual" way rather than coding. > > >> Doru >> >> >> On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 6:28 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com>wrote: >> >>> Sure, guy just repeating almost same thesis as in the original Self demo >>> dated back in '95, >>> "direct manipulation with objects errr.. data".. >>> except that now in crappy web-based environment.. and still missing the >>> point.. >>> because it is not about data, it is about objects. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 29 March 2014 18:20, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Beautiful demo. This should be our game, yet others are playing it :(. >>>> >>>> Doru >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 29 Mar 2014, at 10:38, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> > This is a nice write down: >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> http://www.chris-granger.com/2014/03/27/toward-a-better-programming/ >>>>> > >>>>> > with a nice demo of a prototype: >>>>> > >>>>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6iUm_Cqx2s >>>>> > >>>>> > Luckily, the horrible C++ code computing standard deviation in the >>>>> article can be written quite elegantly and directly in Pharo: >>>>> > >>>>> > | input | >>>>> > input := #(2 4 4 4 5 5 7 9). >>>>> > (((input - input average) raisedTo: 2) sum / (input size - 1)) sort. >>>>> > >>>>> > Sven >>>>> >>>>> Damn spelling correction ;-) >>>>> >>>>> | input | >>>>> input := #(2 4 4 4 5 5 7 9). >>>>> (((input - input average) raisedTo: 2) sum / (input size - 1)) sqrt. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>> >>>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Best regards, >>> Igor Stasenko. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. >

March 29, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

by Igor Stasenko

On 29 March 2014 18:35, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > Hi, > > Sure he is repeating things. And sure he is reinventing half of what we > already have. > > However, he is likely to get more traction because he reinvents the UI, > not the core concepts. You could say it is not an essential contribution. > But, it is. > > The general misconception is that visual manipulation with objects can fully replace the coding. It won't and never will. Except from very simple cases (like computing the average :) You can try to visually express things like branching, conditional loops, common programming patterns, but i doubt you will find it convenient to program it in "visual" way rather than coding. > Doru > > > On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 6:28 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Sure, guy just repeating almost same thesis as in the original Self demo >> dated back in '95, >> "direct manipulation with objects errr.. data".. >> except that now in crappy web-based environment.. and still missing the >> point.. >> because it is not about data, it is about objects. >> >> >> >> >> On 29 March 2014 18:20, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >> >>> Beautiful demo. This should be our game, yet others are playing it :(. >>> >>> Doru >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> On 29 Mar 2014, at 10:38, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >>>> >>>> > This is a nice write down: >>>> > >>>> > http://www.chris-granger.com/2014/03/27/toward-a-better-programming/ >>>> > >>>> > with a nice demo of a prototype: >>>> > >>>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6iUm_Cqx2s >>>> > >>>> > Luckily, the horrible C++ code computing standard deviation in the >>>> article can be written quite elegantly and directly in Pharo: >>>> > >>>> > | input | >>>> > input := #(2 4 4 4 5 5 7 9). >>>> > (((input - input average) raisedTo: 2) sum / (input size - 1)) sort. >>>> > >>>> > Sven >>>> >>>> Damn spelling correction ;-) >>>> >>>> | input | >>>> input := #(2 4 4 4 5 5 7 9). >>>> (((input - input average) raisedTo: 2) sum / (input size - 1)) sqrt. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> >>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Igor Stasenko. >> > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow" > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

March 29, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

by Tudor Girba

Hi, Sure he is repeating things. And sure he is reinventing half of what we already have. However, he is likely to get more traction because he reinvents the UI, not the core concepts. You could say it is not an essential contribution. But, it is. Doru On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 6:28 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Sure, guy just repeating almost same thesis as in the original Self demo > dated back in '95, > "direct manipulation with objects errr.. data".. > except that now in crappy web-based environment.. and still missing the > point.. > because it is not about data, it is about objects. > > > > > On 29 March 2014 18:20, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > >> Beautiful demo. This should be our game, yet others are playing it :(. >> >> Doru >> >> >> On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>wrote: >> >>> >>> On 29 Mar 2014, at 10:38, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >>> >>> > This is a nice write down: >>> > >>> > http://www.chris-granger.com/2014/03/27/toward-a-better-programming/ >>> > >>> > with a nice demo of a prototype: >>> > >>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6iUm_Cqx2s >>> > >>> > Luckily, the horrible C++ code computing standard deviation in the >>> article can be written quite elegantly and directly in Pharo: >>> > >>> > | input | >>> > input := #(2 4 4 4 5 5 7 9). >>> > (((input - input average) raisedTo: 2) sum / (input size - 1)) sort. >>> > >>> > Sven >>> >>> Damn spelling correction ;-) >>> >>> | input | >>> input := #(2 4 4 4 5 5 7 9). >>> (((input - input average) raisedTo: 2) sum / (input size - 1)) sqrt. >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

March 29, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

by Igor Stasenko

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox5P7QyL774 On 29 March 2014 18:28, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Sure, guy just repeating almost same thesis as in the original Self demo > dated back in '95, > "direct manipulation with objects errr.. data".. > except that now in crappy web-based environment.. and still missing the > point.. > because it is not about data, it is about objects. > > > > > On 29 March 2014 18:20, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > >> Beautiful demo. This should be our game, yet others are playing it :(. >> >> Doru >> >> >> On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>wrote: >> >>> >>> On 29 Mar 2014, at 10:38, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >>> >>> > This is a nice write down: >>> > >>> > http://www.chris-granger.com/2014/03/27/toward-a-better-programming/ >>> > >>> > with a nice demo of a prototype: >>> > >>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6iUm_Cqx2s >>> > >>> > Luckily, the horrible C++ code computing standard deviation in the >>> article can be written quite elegantly and directly in Pharo: >>> > >>> > | input | >>> > input := #(2 4 4 4 5 5 7 9). >>> > (((input - input average) raisedTo: 2) sum / (input size - 1)) sort. >>> > >>> > Sven >>> >>> Damn spelling correction ;-) >>> >>> | input | >>> input := #(2 4 4 4 5 5 7 9). >>> (((input - input average) raisedTo: 2) sum / (input size - 1)) sqrt. >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

March 29, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

by Igor Stasenko

Sure, guy just repeating almost same thesis as in the original Self demo dated back in '95, "direct manipulation with objects errr.. data".. except that now in crappy web-based environment.. and still missing the point.. because it is not about data, it is about objects. On 29 March 2014 18:20, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > Beautiful demo. This should be our game, yet others are playing it :(. > > Doru > > > On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>wrote: > >> >> On 29 Mar 2014, at 10:38, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >> >> > This is a nice write down: >> > >> > http://www.chris-granger.com/2014/03/27/toward-a-better-programming/ >> > >> > with a nice demo of a prototype: >> > >> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6iUm_Cqx2s >> > >> > Luckily, the horrible C++ code computing standard deviation in the >> article can be written quite elegantly and directly in Pharo: >> > >> > | input | >> > input := #(2 4 4 4 5 5 7 9). >> > (((input - input average) raisedTo: 2) sum / (input size - 1)) sort. >> > >> > Sven >> >> Damn spelling correction ;-) >> >> | input | >> input := #(2 4 4 4 5 5 7 9). >> (((input - input average) raisedTo: 2) sum / (input size - 1)) sqrt. >> >> >> > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow" > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

March 29, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

by Tudor Girba

Beautiful demo. This should be our game, yet others are playing it :(. Doru On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>wrote: > > On 29 Mar 2014, at 10:38, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > > This is a nice write down: > > > > http://www.chris-granger.com/2014/03/27/toward-a-better-programming/ > > > > with a nice demo of a prototype: > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6iUm_Cqx2s > > > > Luckily, the horrible C++ code computing standard deviation in the > article can be written quite elegantly and directly in Pharo: > > > > | input | > > input := #(2 4 4 4 5 5 7 9). > > (((input - input average) raisedTo: 2) sum / (input size - 1)) sort. > > > > Sven > > Damn spelling correction ;-) > > | input | > input := #(2 4 4 4 5 5 7 9). > (((input - input average) raisedTo: 2) sum / (input size - 1)) sqrt. > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

March 29, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Font problem identified

by Igor Stasenko

On 28 March 2014 22:40, Pharo4Stef <pharo4Stef(a)free.fr> wrote: > Hi guys > > I found the problem now I will think about the solution. > > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?13149 > > Stef > i'd like to point out, that there is of course easy brute-force solution to this problem (simply put dirty patch to force re-loading fonts).. however, i think we should wisely consider, how to deal with it in graceful manner by providing a font-registration mechanism for any potential 3-rd party package(s). Like that, we will solve the problem for longer time period than just the single next day. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

March 29, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] VistaCursors are killing my LinuxVM (beCursor primitive failing)

by Igor Stasenko

On 28 March 2014 22:18, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> wrote: > Yes we have this issue: > > 12960 <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?12960> > Primitive 101 (Cursor beCursor) fails on Ubuntu > > we just need someone who can edit the pharo vm build config. > > > "We just need to enable xrender support in the vm build config" i haven't seen anything related to 'xrender support' in configs, despite i was one of those who made those configs originally.. :) can you elaborate, what exactly you talking about? > > > > 2014-03-28 18:52 GMT+01:00 phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be>: > > I moved a windows image with VistaCursors to Linux and the beCursor >> primitive failed, leading to a white screen opening. >> >> Maybe this is because the cursors are bigger than the 16x16 form. >> >> I saw discussions of this being fixed in Squeak. Are we having this issue >> in Pharo? >> >> Phil >> > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

March 29, 2014