- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Tiny-social meeting in Buenos Aires

by Esteban A. Maringolo

I'll be there. Esteban A. Maringolo 2014-03-31 11:16 GMT-03:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: > Hi, > > As some of you know, I'm on vacations in Buenos Aires. Last days I was talking with the other Esteban of this list and with Hernan about doing a Pharo meeting to talk about the upcoming Pharo3 and well... to socialise a bit :) > It cannot be a true sprint or formal event because my times are complicated (also I'm on holidays!) but is good to meet anyway and exchange impressions and news. > Anyway, it will be friday 18hs to 20:30hs, in this place: http://www.cervelar.com.ar > (in the Belgrano location). > > If you are in Buenos Aires and want to come, please send a confirmation (we need to make a reservation). > > Cheers, > Esteban > >

March 31, 2014

Tiny-social meeting in Buenos Aires

by Esteban Lorenzano

Hi, As some of you know, Iâm on vacations in Buenos Aires. Last days I was talking with the other Esteban of this list and with Hernan about doing a Pharo meeting to talk about the upcoming Pharo3 and wellâ¦ to socialise a bit :) It cannot be a true sprint or formal event because my times are complicated (also Iâm on holidays!) but is good to meet anyway and exchange impressions and news. Anyway, it will be friday 18hs to 20:30hs, in this place: http://www.cervelar.com.ar (in the Belgrano location). If you are in Buenos Aires and want to come, please send a confirmation (we need to make a reservation). Cheers, Esteban

March 31, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

by Henrik Johansen

On 31 Mar 2014, at 10:51 , Sergi Reyner <sergi.reyner(a)gmail.com> wrote: > 2014-03-31 9:26 GMT+01:00 kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com>: > artist in both sides , music and 3d graphics prefer foremost node setups. > > Who? Sources? Hereâs a good example, from one of the premier game engines: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7xRc-iSLXg Unity & CryEngine are still in the âwrite your own/select a pre-made shaderâ territory though. Something to think about for Roassal3D, Ronie? ;) (Not necessarily as a visual tool, but as basic domain model for programming shaders using a Smalltalk DSL) Cheers, Henry

March 31, 2014

Fix waiting for a review

by Damien Cassou

Please spend a minute or two looking at the simple slice attached to the issue below and say something on the issue tracker: Issue 13008: ContextPart>>errorReportOn: sends unknown #position to NonInteractiveTranscript https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13008 -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without losing enthusiasm." Winston Churchill

March 31, 2014

[pharo-project/pharo-core] 4abcd7: 30805

by GitHub

Branch: refs/heads/3.0 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core Commit: 4abcd7c5923bcfe948fff763734dd97551dddead https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core/commit/4abcd7c5923bcfe948fff763… Author: Jenkins Build Server <board(a)pharo-project.org> Date: 2014-03-31 (Mon, 31 Mar 2014) Changed paths: M Collections-Abstract.package/Collection.class/instance/enumerating/difference_.st M Collections-Unordered.package/Set.class/instance/enumerating/difference_.st M Graphics-Primitives.package/Color.class/class/as yet unclassified/cachedColormapFrom_to_.st M Graphics-Primitives.package/Color.class/class/instance creation/colorFrom_.st M Graphics-Primitives.package/Color.class/class/instance creation/fromString_.st M Graphics-Primitives.package/Color.class/class/instance creation/h_s_v_.st M Graphics-Primitives.package/Color.class/class/other/shutDown.st M Graphics-Primitives.package/Color.class/instance/printing/printOn_.st M Kernel.package/Integer.class/instance/arithmetic/reciprocalModulo_.st M Kernel.package/Integer.class/instance/private/slidingLeftRightRaisedTo_modulo_.st A ScriptLoader30.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - scripts/script458.st A ScriptLoader30.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - updates/update30805.st M ScriptLoader30.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/public/commentForCurrentUpdate.st Log Message: ----------- 30805 13119 Color>>printOn: writes "NewColor" instead of Color https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13119 13084 Avoid using \\\ as modulo operator https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13084 13079 Adding better comment to difference: methods https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13079 http://files.pharo.org/image/30/30805.zip

March 31, 2014

[pharo-project/pharo-core]

by GitHub

Branch: refs/tags/30805 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core

March 31, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

by kilon alios

The last part of my post is opinion yes. My opinion is that visual coding will slowly and steadily penetrate other markets as its has for music and Computer Graphics. Its not a fact, nor I have experience with other sectors to offer a solid opinion on them. Its more like a logical conclusion. I could be wrong but I seriously doubt it. The first part are facts that I have collected with over a decade of personal experience with these fields. Its not that hard to prove just go to youtube and search for coding articles for python or other script languages for 3d apps vs node setups on the same apps. Nodes are actually new to 3d apps, when I first starting using 3d studio max in 2000 there was no nodes back then but there was a C API and Maxscript. Nowdays nodes are heavily used. Reactor has been a dominant tool since 1996 for musicians. If you are musicians that wants to create highly modular audio setups then Reactor and MAX/MSP are 2 most popular choices. This is not a thing I created our of my head and you can ask around for confirmation to my claims. You can ask those people if they find text easier to handle than nodes. So yes I made an opinion with assumptions but I have based it on facts and personal experience. But then in the end it comes down to personal taste. On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Sergi Reyner <sergi.reyner(a)gmail.com>wrote: > 2014-03-31 9:26 GMT+01:00 kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com>: > > artist in both sides , music and 3d graphics prefer foremost node setups. >> > > Who? Sources? > > >> Text based coding has prevailed because early computer could not handle >> graphics well. >> > > IÂ´m sure that the fact that text is easily manipulable has had more to do > with it. But I have no sources right now to back up my assertion. > > There is definitely a recent shift to more visual coding and I doubt that >> text code is doing anything else than slowly shrinking in significance. >> > > Where? By who? Shrinking? Sources, please. > > Not that text coding cannot do this, but people associating with it, tend >> to not be designers and you need designers to improve workflow at least on >> the user level. >> > > Are there statistics? > > Languages also will play a less significant role seeing the appearance of >> more and more specialized tools like it has already happened in music and >> 3d industry. >> > > Two sectors out of who knows how many. > > Cheers, > Sergi > > PS: IÂ´m not yelling at you, I just think that you made a lot of > affirmations based on opinion rather than facts. >

March 31, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

by Sergi Reyner

2014-03-31 9:26 GMT+01:00 kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com>: > artist in both sides , music and 3d graphics prefer foremost node setups. > Who? Sources? > Text based coding has prevailed because early computer could not handle > graphics well. > IÂ´m sure that the fact that text is easily manipulable has had more to do with it. But I have no sources right now to back up my assertion. There is definitely a recent shift to more visual coding and I doubt that > text code is doing anything else than slowly shrinking in significance. > Where? By who? Shrinking? Sources, please. Not that text coding cannot do this, but people associating with it, tend > to not be designers and you need designers to improve workflow at least on > the user level. > Are there statistics? Languages also will play a less significant role seeing the appearance of > more and more specialized tools like it has already happened in music and > 3d industry. > Two sectors out of who knows how many. Cheers, Sergi PS: IÂ´m not yelling at you, I just think that you made a lot of affirmations based on opinion rather than facts.

March 31, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

by phil＠highoctane.be

This is mostly for given verticals. Same as sound, with Guitar Rig or Ableton https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMP8onefhoQ But yes, it is cooler to work with the blocks than with code. Now, you need the code to do the block. Phil On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 10:26 AM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > It has already happened , and there 2 rather huge commercial examples > > a) Native Instrument's Reaktor -> > http://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/synths-samplers/reak… > > b) Softimage ICE -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=do1kzR6gVYk > > And those are not your everyday examples. Reaktor is THE modular audio > synthesis environment , by far the most popular. With its close competitor > being MAX/MSP. > > Softimage on the other hand has been the dominant 3d app for 80s and 90s > movies,but even for other 3d apps node setups are a must have. Though all > 3d apps come with python APIs and python having a reputation of being very > much liked by people new to coding, artist in both sides , music and 3d > graphics prefer foremost node setups. For example Houdini a very popular 3d > app has full integration with nodes , anything the user can make can be > controlled by nodes. > > Generally speaking I am not a big fan of the infinite "cannot". There is > no way to predict something unless you seriously try it. But in the end any > problem can be overcome. Text based coding has prevailed because early > computer could not handle graphics well. There is definitely a recent shift > to more visual coding and I doubt that text code is doing anything else > than slowly shrinking in significance. The way I see it, text coding has > become less and less managable , visual coding offers really good > alternative managing very complex structures being closely tied to the GUI. > Not that text coding cannot do this, but people associating with it, tend > to not be designers and you need designers to improve workflow at least on > the user level. > > Languages also will play a less significant role seeing the appearance of > more and more specialized tools like it has already happened in music and > 3d industry. > > > > On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 7:40 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> >> On 29 March 2014 18:35, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Sure he is repeating things. And sure he is reinventing half of what we >>> already have. >>> >>> However, he is likely to get more traction because he reinvents the UI, >>> not the core concepts. You could say it is not an essential contribution. >>> But, it is. >>> >>> >> The general misconception is that visual manipulation with objects can >> fully replace the coding. It won't and never will. Except from very simple >> cases (like computing the average :) >> You can try to visually express things like branching, conditional loops, >> common programming patterns, but i doubt you will find it convenient to >> program it in "visual" way rather than coding. >> >> >>> Doru >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 6:28 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com>wrote: >>> >>>> Sure, guy just repeating almost same thesis as in the original Self >>>> demo dated back in '95, >>>> "direct manipulation with objects errr.. data".. >>>> except that now in crappy web-based environment.. and still missing the >>>> point.. >>>> because it is not about data, it is about objects. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 29 March 2014 18:20, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Beautiful demo. This should be our game, yet others are playing it :(. >>>>> >>>>> Doru >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 29 Mar 2014, at 10:38, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> > This is a nice write down: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://www.chris-granger.com/2014/03/27/toward-a-better-programming/ >>>>>> > >>>>>> > with a nice demo of a prototype: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6iUm_Cqx2s >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Luckily, the horrible C++ code computing standard deviation in the >>>>>> article can be written quite elegantly and directly in Pharo: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > | input | >>>>>> > input := #(2 4 4 4 5 5 7 9). >>>>>> > (((input - input average) raisedTo: 2) sum / (input size - 1)) sort. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Sven >>>>>> >>>>>> Damn spelling correction ;-) >>>>>> >>>>>> | input | >>>>>> input := #(2 4 4 4 5 5 7 9). >>>>>> (((input - input average) raisedTo: 2) sum / (input size - 1)) sqrt. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>> >>>>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Best regards, >>>> Igor Stasenko. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> >>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Igor Stasenko. >> > >

March 31, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Inspiration] Toward a better programming

by kilon alios

It has already happened , and there 2 rather huge commercial examples a) Native Instrument's Reaktor -> http://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/synths-samplers/reak… b) Softimage ICE -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=do1kzR6gVYk And those are not your everyday examples. Reaktor is THE modular audio synthesis environment , by far the most popular. With its close competitor being MAX/MSP. Softimage on the other hand has been the dominant 3d app for 80s and 90s movies,but even for other 3d apps node setups are a must have. Though all 3d apps come with python APIs and python having a reputation of being very much liked by people new to coding, artist in both sides , music and 3d graphics prefer foremost node setups. For example Houdini a very popular 3d app has full integration with nodes , anything the user can make can be controlled by nodes. Generally speaking I am not a big fan of the infinite "cannot". There is no way to predict something unless you seriously try it. But in the end any problem can be overcome. Text based coding has prevailed because early computer could not handle graphics well. There is definitely a recent shift to more visual coding and I doubt that text code is doing anything else than slowly shrinking in significance. The way I see it, text coding has become less and less managable , visual coding offers really good alternative managing very complex structures being closely tied to the GUI. Not that text coding cannot do this, but people associating with it, tend to not be designers and you need designers to improve workflow at least on the user level. Languages also will play a less significant role seeing the appearance of more and more specialized tools like it has already happened in music and 3d industry. On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 7:40 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On 29 March 2014 18:35, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Sure he is repeating things. And sure he is reinventing half of what we >> already have. >> >> However, he is likely to get more traction because he reinvents the UI, >> not the core concepts. You could say it is not an essential contribution. >> But, it is. >> >> > The general misconception is that visual manipulation with objects can > fully replace the coding. It won't and never will. Except from very simple > cases (like computing the average :) > You can try to visually express things like branching, conditional loops, > common programming patterns, but i doubt you will find it convenient to > program it in "visual" way rather than coding. > > >> Doru >> >> >> On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 6:28 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com>wrote: >> >>> Sure, guy just repeating almost same thesis as in the original Self demo >>> dated back in '95, >>> "direct manipulation with objects errr.. data".. >>> except that now in crappy web-based environment.. and still missing the >>> point.. >>> because it is not about data, it is about objects. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 29 March 2014 18:20, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Beautiful demo. This should be our game, yet others are playing it :(. >>>> >>>> Doru >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 29 Mar 2014, at 10:38, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> > This is a nice write down: >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> http://www.chris-granger.com/2014/03/27/toward-a-better-programming/ >>>>> > >>>>> > with a nice demo of a prototype: >>>>> > >>>>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6iUm_Cqx2s >>>>> > >>>>> > Luckily, the horrible C++ code computing standard deviation in the >>>>> article can be written quite elegantly and directly in Pharo: >>>>> > >>>>> > | input | >>>>> > input := #(2 4 4 4 5 5 7 9). >>>>> > (((input - input average) raisedTo: 2) sum / (input size - 1)) sort. >>>>> > >>>>> > Sven >>>>> >>>>> Damn spelling correction ;-) >>>>> >>>>> | input | >>>>> input := #(2 4 4 4 5 5 7 9). >>>>> (((input - input average) raisedTo: 2) sum / (input size - 1)) sqrt. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>> >>>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Best regards, >>> Igor Stasenko. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. >

March 31, 2014