- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] New Website online

by Ben Coman

April 30, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] a Pharo talk from a ruby conference

by Ben Coman

Jimmie Houchin wrote: > On 04/28/2014 11:12 AM, Marcus Denker wrote: >> â¦ more a Smalltalk one using Pharo: >> >> MountainWest RubyConf 2014 >> >> Noel Rappin: "But Really, You Should Learn Smalltalkâ >> >> Smalltalk has mystique. We talk about it more than we use it. It >> seems like it should be so similar to Ruby. It has similar >> Object-Oriented structures, it even has blocks. But everything is so >> slightly different, from the programming environment, to the 1-based >> arrays, to the simple syntax. Using Smalltalk will make you look at >> familiar constructs with new eyes. Weâll show you how to get started >> on Smalltalk, and walk through some sample code. Live coding may be >> involved. Youâll never look at objects the same way again. >> >> http://www.confreaks.com/videos/3284-mwrc-but-really-you-should-learn-small… >> > > In this thread and many others there is this debate as to whether > Pharo is a Smalltalk or is Smalltalk Inspired. > > I find the Smalltalk Inspired arguments to be unpersuasive. To be > Smalltalk Inspired is to say that you are not a Smalltalk. It is to > say that Pharo is not Smalltalk but inspired by it. > > I find that reasoning patently false. > > First of all everything in Pharo begins from a Smalltalk image. It > comes from Squeak Smalltalk which comes from Apple Smalltalk. etc. > > Pharo has an isA relationship with Smalltalk, not an isInspiredBy > relationship. It may change and add features, but as has been stated > before, Smalltalk isn't a static idea or artifact. It has always been > a dynamic live environment in which to change itself into something it > believed to be better. By removing features and by growing them. > > Smalltalk (an instance of SmalltalkImage), SmalltalkImage, > SmalltalkImageTest, SmalltalkEditingState are all part of the Pharo > Smalltalk image. > > The Pharo image is a Smalltalk image. It says so inside the image itself. > > Where are we hosting are source code? Would that be SmalltalkHub? > Lets see something. > http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo > > Okay, Pharo might be doing things that would break compatibility with > other Smalltalks. And that causes some people pain and grief. However > that does not make Pharo not a Smalltalk. Was Smalltalk 76 constrained > by backward compatibility with Smalltalk 72? Or Smalltalk 80 with > either Smalltalk 76 or 72? No! > > Is it a requirement of Pharo to be constrained by other Smalltalk > implementations in order to still be a Smalltalk. No! > > And then there is the argument of the outside worlds perception of > Smalltalk. Since when does the perception of the outside world change > whether or not Pharo is a Smalltalk? If the outside world changed > their mind and decided Smalltalk is wonderful, does Pharo then all of > the sudden become a Smalltalk? Ugh! > > We are who we are. Our roots are our roots. Pharo should be happy and > proud to be a Smalltalk. A Smalltalk that is continuing the heritage > of innovation. A Smalltalk that is continuing the heritage of > inventing the future. > > We have decided to be marketing driven. Marketing is important. But > marketing should determine who we are. And we should engage in > disingenuous marketing practice trying to hide our roots or who we are. > > Why do we things distancing ourselves from Smalltalk advantages us? > Just because there are lots of uneducated people who have the wrong > idea about Smalltalk. Clojure embraced its Lisp heritage and is > thriving. Lisp has every bit as much baggage. > > This talk which inspired this thread called Pharo as Smalltalk. He > said, Pharo Smalltalk throughout the presentation. So in the mind of > the presenter and now in the mind of the audience at the conference > and of the video, Pharo is a Smalltalk. So now are we to go about > re-educating all these people that Pharo is not a Smalltalk but is > rather Smalltalk Inspired? > > We don't require the outside world's permission. We don't need their > approval. We would like to have a reasonable and sufficient number of > them to catch the Pharo Smalltalk vision and become a part of the > family. Do we really desire everybody. No. Do we desire those people > who are so closed minded that the mention of Smalltalk closes their > mind because of their ignorance. I don't think so. > > Smalltalk is different. Pharo is Smalltalk and is different. There > will be those who don't like it because of the baggage they bring, not > the baggage we bring. And that is okay. All of us think different. > People need to embrace what empowers them and quit complaining about > what empowers somebody else. We need to embrace empowering people who > understand Smalltalk not the people who don't get it for whatever > reason. Let those people go and be empowered somewhere else. We and > they will both be better off. > > Feel free to shred and destroy my arguments. I am proud to use > Smalltalk. And currently Pharo is the Smalltalk I am choosing to use. > Currently I am studying C. A C library is required for my project and > in order to use Pharo and use this library, I need sufficient C skills. > > My opinion unapologetically. > > And if the powers that be who are in charge of Pharo decide that > Smalltalk (in name) is baggage and Pharo is not Smalltalk. And that > marketing Pharo as Smalltalk is bad. Then please be honest and change > all references in the image of Smalltalk to Pharo. Also change > SmalltalkHub to PharoHub or SmalltalkInspiredHub. > > If if not, be sincere and embrace Pharo Smalltalk. > > Long live Smalltalk. > > Jimmie > > Thanks for taking the time to write. You have some good points. Looking in from outside it seems that "Smalltalk inspired" is used as means to break the shackles of backward compatibility. At the time of the fork from Squeak backward compatibility was probably a big issue that felt important to plant that stake in the ground to define the new fork. We all see the world based on our experiences, and our frustrations mold our thinking. I think Pharo has successfully cultivated this aspect and maybe the "inspired" has served its purpose and is not needed so much. Personally I don't mind "Smalltalk inspired", but actually I whenever I talk of it I find I often naturally say "Pharo Smalltalk". Now if the crux of it is being unconstrained by Smalltalk-80, then perhaps a sufficient alternative could be: "More than Smalltalk-80" or maybe being an "Innovative Smalltalk" implies that well enough. cheers -ben

April 30, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 3.0 Released!

by Sean P. DeNigris

Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote > Today is a great day ! +1 to all! ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-3-0-Released-tp4757229p4757296.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

April 30, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] a Pharo talk from a ruby conference

by kilon alios

Let me put forward my personal opinion for what is worth. I am new to Smalltalk and I am new to Pharo , slowly learning a tiny bit every single day . I am no pro developer. Just a guy that uses Pharo as a way to exercise my brain cells. It has become by far my favorite tool. For me Pharo is Smalltalk, the reason being that I see Smalltalk as I see Lisp. A programming language to create a programming languages. On the other hand Smalltalk is also a hackable software environment. The way I see it nothing stops Smalltalk from evolving to something like Pharo, as a matter of fact thats the whole goal of Smalltalk in the first place, to evolve , change, improve , imposing no limitation to the users. This is why we have a live environment, this is why OOP is a essential part , this is why ease of use is so central in Smalltalk. The fact that Pharo brakes off from traditional concepts and ideas of Smalltalk is irrelevant. Pharo is not the first to do this. I am coming from cpython, when cpython 3 appeared it had broken compatibility in many ways with python 2 , it was essentially a new python, yet it was still python. I think ruby has gone a similar phase too. As a matter of fact burning down bridges is part of the process of improvement. Its not invention, its evolution. On the other hand its semantics, just words, and words are useless if you dont put detailed meanings. Detailed meanings are paragraphs, chapters and in some cases entire books. Because the world we live in is far from simple. On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 7:12 PM, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be>wrote: > Pharo := Smalltalk ++ > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 5:43 PM, Jimmie Houchin <jlhouchin(a)gmail.com>wrote: > >> On 04/28/2014 11:12 AM, Marcus Denker wrote: >> >>> â¦ more a Smalltalk one using Pharo: >>> >>> MountainWest RubyConf 2014 >>> >>> Noel Rappin: "But Really, You Should Learn Smalltalkâ >>> >>> Smalltalk has mystique. We talk about it more than we use it. It seems >>> like it should be so similar to Ruby. It has similar Object-Oriented >>> structures, it even has blocks. But everything is so slightly different, >>> from the programming environment, to the 1-based arrays, to the simple >>> syntax. Using Smalltalk will make you look at familiar constructs with new >>> eyes. Weâll show you how to get started on Smalltalk, and walk through some >>> sample code. Live coding may be involved. Youâll never look at objects the >>> same way again. >>> >>> http://www.confreaks.com/videos/3284-mwrc-but-really- >>> you-should-learn-smalltalk >>> >> >> In this thread and many others there is this debate as to whether Pharo >> is a Smalltalk or is Smalltalk Inspired. >> >> I find the Smalltalk Inspired arguments to be unpersuasive. To be >> Smalltalk Inspired is to say that you are not a Smalltalk. It is to say >> that Pharo is not Smalltalk but inspired by it. >> >> I find that reasoning patently false. >> >> First of all everything in Pharo begins from a Smalltalk image. It comes >> from Squeak Smalltalk which comes from Apple Smalltalk. etc. >> >> Pharo has an isA relationship with Smalltalk, not an isInspiredBy >> relationship. It may change and add features, but as has been stated >> before, Smalltalk isn't a static idea or artifact. It has always been a >> dynamic live environment in which to change itself into something it >> believed to be better. By removing features and by growing them. >> >> Smalltalk (an instance of SmalltalkImage), SmalltalkImage, >> SmalltalkImageTest, SmalltalkEditingState are all part of the Pharo >> Smalltalk image. >> >> The Pharo image is a Smalltalk image. It says so inside the image itself. >> >> Where are we hosting are source code? Would that be SmalltalkHub? >> Lets see something. >> http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo >> >> Okay, Pharo might be doing things that would break compatibility with >> other Smalltalks. And that causes some people pain and grief. However that >> does not make Pharo not a Smalltalk. Was Smalltalk 76 constrained by >> backward compatibility with Smalltalk 72? Or Smalltalk 80 with either >> Smalltalk 76 or 72? No! >> >> Is it a requirement of Pharo to be constrained by other Smalltalk >> implementations in order to still be a Smalltalk. No! >> >> And then there is the argument of the outside worlds perception of >> Smalltalk. Since when does the perception of the outside world change >> whether or not Pharo is a Smalltalk? If the outside world changed their >> mind and decided Smalltalk is wonderful, does Pharo then all of the sudden >> become a Smalltalk? Ugh! >> >> We are who we are. Our roots are our roots. Pharo should be happy and >> proud to be a Smalltalk. A Smalltalk that is continuing the heritage of >> innovation. A Smalltalk that is continuing the heritage of inventing the >> future. >> >> We have decided to be marketing driven. Marketing is important. But >> marketing should determine who we are. And we should engage in disingenuous >> marketing practice trying to hide our roots or who we are. >> >> Why do we things distancing ourselves from Smalltalk advantages us? Just >> because there are lots of uneducated people who have the wrong idea about >> Smalltalk. Clojure embraced its Lisp heritage and is thriving. Lisp has >> every bit as much baggage. >> >> This talk which inspired this thread called Pharo as Smalltalk. He said, >> Pharo Smalltalk throughout the presentation. So in the mind of the >> presenter and now in the mind of the audience at the conference and of the >> video, Pharo is a Smalltalk. So now are we to go about re-educating all >> these people that Pharo is not a Smalltalk but is rather Smalltalk Inspired? >> >> We don't require the outside world's permission. We don't need their >> approval. We would like to have a reasonable and sufficient number of them >> to catch the Pharo Smalltalk vision and become a part of the family. Do we >> really desire everybody. No. Do we desire those people who are so closed >> minded that the mention of Smalltalk closes their mind because of their >> ignorance. I don't think so. >> >> Smalltalk is different. Pharo is Smalltalk and is different. There will >> be those who don't like it because of the baggage they bring, not the >> baggage we bring. And that is okay. All of us think different. People need >> to embrace what empowers them and quit complaining about what empowers >> somebody else. We need to embrace empowering people who understand >> Smalltalk not the people who don't get it for whatever reason. Let those >> people go and be empowered somewhere else. We and they will both be better >> off. >> >> Feel free to shred and destroy my arguments. I am proud to use Smalltalk. >> And currently Pharo is the Smalltalk I am choosing to use. Currently I am >> studying C. A C library is required for my project and in order to use >> Pharo and use this library, I need sufficient C skills. >> >> My opinion unapologetically. >> >> And if the powers that be who are in charge of Pharo decide that >> Smalltalk (in name) is baggage and Pharo is not Smalltalk. And that >> marketing Pharo as Smalltalk is bad. Then please be honest and change all >> references in the image of Smalltalk to Pharo. Also change SmalltalkHub to >> PharoHub or SmalltalkInspiredHub. >> >> If if not, be sincere and embrace Pharo Smalltalk. >> >> Long live Smalltalk. >> >> Jimmie >> >> >

April 30, 2014

how can I have a working roassal 3d ?

by ClÃ©ment Bera

Hello, I wanted to show some 3D visualization with Pharo to some people (because you know, non IT people are only impressed by robots and 3d, so I cannot show them a compiler). On the Pharo 3 release, in the configuration browser, I clicked on Roassal3d then 'Install stable version'. Then I was not able to run a single example of R3Example, I always got: [image: Images intÃ©grÃ©es 1] How can I have an image with Roassal3D working ? I would like to try to draw a 3D fractal too (I love fractals). Thanks !

April 30, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [pharo-project/pharo-core]

by Sean P. DeNigris

Sean P. DeNigris wrote > I've reached out and await their reply. >From github support: The pharo-project/pharo-core repository is using the Email Service Hook to provide notifications on push. The Email Service Hook doesn't currently allow you to configure which pushes should trigger notifications.Note that these are not regular GitHub Notifications [1], and that many open source projects do not use the Email Service Hook for notifications on push, because of the volume of email generated. ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/pharo-project-pharo-core-tp4756985p4757293.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

April 30, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo RPi and FileSystem error

by Jean Baptiste Arnaud

That the point I want to checks it, run test and if work integrated for raspbian. It is completely generated it shouldn't have any problem. But ... A really nice guy can just do the image side hack to avoid FileSystem error. On 30 Apr 2014, at 18:24, Douglas McPherson <djm1329(a)san.rr.com> wrote: > As a data point, OSProcess works "out-of-the-box" with the Squeak interpreter VM shipped with Raspbian. So should be ok in Pharo, but I haven't tried it. > > Doug > > On Apr 30, 2014, at 09:03 , David T. Lewis wrote: > >>> >>> There are no NativeBoost on Rpi, FFI or OSProcess. >>> Basically the fileSystem work, but some data are fetch via env variable >>> and then NativeBoost. >>> The solution is to bypass all the request of env variable. >>> You should use another way until, we finish to integrate a way to request >>> correctly the env variable (NB on arm). >>> >>> I will studies the possibility to reintegrate fast the OSProcess plugin to >>> offer "better" solution. >> >> >> I would expect OSProcess to work without problems on Rpi, although I do >> not have a way to test it. The plugin should be fine. Maybe some changes >> will be needed on the image side for detecting the platform, I'm not sure. >> >> Let me know if I can help, I will be glad to add any necessary patches to >> OSProcess. >> >> Dave >> >> > > Best Regards Jean Baptiste Arnaud jbaptiste.arnaud(a)gmail.com

April 30, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo on RPi

by Jean Baptiste Arnaud

un publishing mechanism has been settled for raps. The working artefact of the vm will be install under: http://files.pharo.org/vm/pharoS/raspbian/ Sound will not fix yet so for now I deactivate the sound plugin under Raspbian. The build should be green soon. On 30 Apr 2014, at 13:21, Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr> wrote: > Thanks JB! This is really great! > > Thierry > > Le 30/04/2014 13:18, Jean Baptiste Arnaud a Ã©crit : >> The status of Rpi. >> The VM work as a StackVM linux one, >> Except for: >> - Sound (recent bug will be fixed soon), >> - NativeBoost (arm), >> - FFI (recent change from Doug will be here soon) >> and OsProcess (I just don not try it yet but I didn't look at it). >> >> >> I think the VM is stable enough to be used. >> I will move the infrastructure to the file server today, the last >> raspberry pi VM should work. >> It will be fixed during the day. >> >> >> >> On 30 Apr 2014, at 12:31, Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr >> <mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr>> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Le 30/04/2014 11:58, jannik laval a Ã©crit : >>>> I have a Phratch that begin to work on RPi >>>> (https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Phratch/job/Phratch-OneClick-RP…) >>>> So, you can probably use Pharo 3 >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> I'll start moving the infrastructure there then. >>> >>> Thierry >>> >>>> Now I have problems with FileSystem, I will ask in another thread. >>> >>>> Jannik >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> ~~Jannik Laval~~ >>>> Ãcole des Mines de Douai >>>> Enseignant-chercheur >>>> http://www.jannik-laval.eu >>>> http://www.phratch.com >>>> http://car.mines-douai.fr/ >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Thierry Goubier >>> CEA list >>> Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s >>> 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex >>> France >>> Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 >>> >> >> >> >> Best Regards >> Jean Baptiste Arnaud >> jbaptiste.arnaud(a)gmail.com <mailto:jbaptiste.arnaud@gmail.com> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > -- > Thierry Goubier > CEA list > Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s > 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex > France > Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 > Best Regards Jean Baptiste Arnaud jbaptiste.arnaud(a)gmail.com

April 30, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] New Website online

by kilon alios

I love the new website definitely an improvement , don't like the new flatten logo , old one was a very beautiful design. R.I.P Thanks for including my video "Why Pharo" in the website I feel honoured and thank you for your hard work. On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 7:07 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com>wrote: > Yes, well done!! > > Alexandre > > > On Apr 30, 2014, at 12:48 PM, Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl> wrote: > > > > > Slick! Congrats on the site. > > > > On Apr 30, 2014, at 10:26 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> > wrote: > > > >> Hi, > >> > >> The new website is online! > >> > >> http://pharo.org > >> > >> For now, pharo-project.org still is the old website. > >> Next: pharo-project.org should forward to pharo.org, > >> it will still be available as old.pharo-project.org for some time. > >> > >> Thanks a lot to > >> Nico http://nicolas-petton.fr, > >> Esteban http://smallworks.eu, > >> Damien http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st > >> and Aurelia http://aurelia.saout.fr > >> > >> > >> Marcus > >> > >> > > > > > > > > ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- > > > > Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry > > PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile > > > > > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > >

April 30, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Mac - Identified Developers

by Esteban Lorenzano

As always... Time to actually do it. Is in my todo list since months, but I'm always run into other problems/urgencies :( Esteban > On 30 Apr 2014, at 18:16, Ben Coman <btc(a)openInWorld.com> wrote: > > From reddit... > > My mac complains: "Pharo3.0" can't be opened because it is from an unidentified developer. Your security prefernces allow installation of only apps from the Mac App Store and identified developers. Of course I just can turn off this. But still. > > What is the constraint to producing the Mac version as an identified developer? > > cheers -ben >

April 30, 2014