- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] how can I have a working roassal 3d ?

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 30 Apr 2014, at 23:48, Ronie Salgado <roniesalg(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Sven, > > About the configuration browser, I don't know why Roassal 3D it is there, because currently is highly unstable and it is going to keep being for a while. We are still missing lot of features and we need to fix lot of bugs. I suspected as much, it probably was copied in a bit too early. > As for the black boxes, that is a shader issue which I could reproduce in my machine using an Intel graphics card but I haven't have time to track where it is. OK. > As for something like the Roassal examples, that is definitely something that we need. > > If there is too much urgency on using Roassal 3D, please, let me know so I can focus on getting a stable release soon. No need to do anything special for me, just keep on doing things at your own schedule, and be sure to let us know when we mortals can start using it. > Greetings, > Ronie > > > 2014-04-30 15:25 GMT-04:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > Ronnie, > > The point of the Configuration Browser is to load #stable configurations, if those do not exist or cannot be produced, than the configuration should no be there I think. The goal of the Configuration Browser is to make it super easy for users to load something with just one click. > > I tried your Gofer script but I am not 100% sure everything really works. If I try some of the R3Examples, I see mostly black boxes. > > Is there not something like the Rossal Examples for 3D ? Because that one is cool and easy for a beginner like me ;-) > > But don't get me wrong, I like what you guys are doing ! > > Sven > > On 30 Apr 2014, at 20:32, Ronie Salgado <roniesalg(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi ClÃ©ment, > > > > There is not a stable version available, in fact Roassal3D requires the bleeding edge version of NBOpenGL to work, which is producing your error. Try loading Roassal3D using the following Gofer script, which is available in the Roassal3D smalltalk hub http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~ronsaldo/roassal3d : > > > > Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ronsaldo' project: 'roassal3d'; package: 'ConfigurationOfRoassal3d'; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfRoassal3d) loadDevelopment > > > > For 3D fractals, I haven't added support for them. That sounds like an interesting idea. > > > > Greetings, > > Ronie > > > > > > 2014-04-30 14:09 GMT-04:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > > The 2D stuff works for me, but there seems to be a problem with the 3D stuff. > > > > I hope the Rossal developers can fix this soon, since we're showing off Rossal with the 3.0 release.... > > > > On 30 Apr 2014, at 18:53, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > I wanted to show some 3D visualization with Pharo to some people (because you know, non IT people are only impressed by robots and 3d, so I cannot show them a compiler). > > > > > > On the Pharo 3 release, in the configuration browser, I clicked on Roassal3d then 'Install stable version'. > > > > > > Then I was not able to run a single example of R3Example, I always got: > > > > > > <Screen Shot 2014-04-30 at 9.51.42 AM.png> > > > > > > How can I have an image with Roassal3D working ? > > > > > > I would like to try to draw a 3D fractal too (I love fractals). > > > > > > Thanks ! > > > > > > > > >

April 30, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo renamed to "MuchTalk"

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

We have that list too: Page 3 of http://www.pharo-project.org/download/pictures/be/j32hajf3kjdbsebqo0a9zc5tk… Or this version: http://lists.pharo.org/pipermail/pharo-users_lists.pharo.org/2012-May/00405… Now that I see this list again, I feel that it should be part of the image. On 30 Apr 2014, at 23:33, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Personally I am very interested to see how developers see Pharo, because the way they see it is also the future of Pharo the directions it is going. So while some may find these type of discussion derailing its very important for the direction of Pharo. > > Even though its very important to add code to Pharo and enhance and bug fix, its also very important to have a clear vision that the community agrees on. > > The discussion also has raised some important issues of how Pharo is promoted, obviously Promotion of Pharo is a rather huge deal for Pharo future. I see these Emails as the start of a very long process in the future of Pharo where the community tries to feel in the dark its path and the values it represents. Its also important to get the message (Pharo is all about messages afterall) loud and clear to newcomers or people considering giving Pharo a try. > > Sean I am definitely interested in the discussion and your opinion, I have very little to contribute to it, but its great to hear the opinion of people that have very large experience of Smalltalk. > > Some say "opinions are like assholes everyone has one" (no intention to be rude) but my belief is opinions however wrong they may be, do matter because they reveal personal needs , desires and dreams. Pharo like every other product out there is made to please people and accommodate for these things. > > Also these discussions are far from exclusive to Pharo. I am coming from Python there there is the Zen of Pharo. > > " > â¢ Beautiful is better than ugly. > â¢ Explicit is better than implicit. > â¢ Simple is better than complex. > â¢ Complex is better than complicated. > â¢ Flat is better than nested. > â¢ Sparse is better than dense. > â¢ Readability counts. > â¢ Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules. > â¢ Although practicality beats purity. > â¢ Errors should never pass silently. > â¢ Unless explicitly silenced. > â¢ In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess. > â¢ There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it. > â¢ Although that way may not be obvious at first unless you're Dutch. > â¢ Now is better than never. > â¢ Although never is often better than right now. > â¢ If the implementation is hard to explain, it's a bad idea. > â¢ If the implementation is easy to explain, it may be a good idea. > â¢ NameSpaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those! > > â¢ " > This started as a joke from a single guy. Then it was included as a module in python standard library , the moment you import the module it executes a method that prints this text. The joke became something very serious, it is something that many python library authors take as a guide for designing their libraries. This piece of joke has become so serious that currently python libraries uses this set of principles and libraries that don't are labeled by python coders as "unpythonic" which is considered a bad thing. > > For me this indicates that a community has chosen a path and most importantly a path they have chosen to walk together as one unit. I don't think there is anything stronger than that. > > > On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 11:52 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > onierstrasz wrote > > 117 emails since I checked a few hours ago? > > 110 of those were mine, sorry :-P > Signing off for today... > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-renamed-to-MuchTalk-tp4757347p4757349.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >

April 30, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] how can I have a working roassal 3d ?

by Ronie Salgado

Hi Sven, About the configuration browser, I don't know why Roassal 3D it is there, because currently is highly unstable and it is going to keep being for a while. We are still missing lot of features and we need to fix lot of bugs. As for the black boxes, that is a shader issue which I could reproduce in my machine using an Intel graphics card but I haven't have time to track where it is. As for something like the Roassal examples, that is definitely something that we need. If there is too much urgency on using Roassal 3D, please, let me know so I can focus on getting a stable release soon. Greetings, Ronie 2014-04-30 15:25 GMT-04:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > Ronnie, > > The point of the Configuration Browser is to load #stable configurations, > if those do not exist or cannot be produced, than the configuration should > no be there I think. The goal of the Configuration Browser is to make it > super easy for users to load something with just one click. > > I tried your Gofer script but I am not 100% sure everything really works. > If I try some of the R3Examples, I see mostly black boxes. > > Is there not something like the Rossal Examples for 3D ? Because that one > is cool and easy for a beginner like me ;-) > > But don't get me wrong, I like what you guys are doing ! > > Sven > > On 30 Apr 2014, at 20:32, Ronie Salgado <roniesalg(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi ClÃ©ment, > > > > There is not a stable version available, in fact Roassal3D requires the > bleeding edge version of NBOpenGL to work, which is producing your error. > Try loading Roassal3D using the following Gofer script, which is available > in the Roassal3D smalltalk hub > http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~ronsaldo/roassal3d : > > > > Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ronsaldo' project: 'roassal3d'; package: > 'ConfigurationOfRoassal3d'; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfRoassal3d) > loadDevelopment > > > > For 3D fractals, I haven't added support for them. That sounds like an > interesting idea. > > > > Greetings, > > Ronie > > > > > > 2014-04-30 14:09 GMT-04:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > > The 2D stuff works for me, but there seems to be a problem with the 3D > stuff. > > > > I hope the Rossal developers can fix this soon, since we're showing off > Rossal with the 3.0 release.... > > > > On 30 Apr 2014, at 18:53, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > I wanted to show some 3D visualization with Pharo to some people > (because you know, non IT people are only impressed by robots and 3d, so I > cannot show them a compiler). > > > > > > On the Pharo 3 release, in the configuration browser, I clicked on > Roassal3d then 'Install stable version'. > > > > > > Then I was not able to run a single example of R3Example, I always got: > > > > > > <Screen Shot 2014-04-30 at 9.51.42 AM.png> > > > > > > How can I have an image with Roassal3D working ? > > > > > > I would like to try to draw a 3D fractal too (I love fractals). > > > > > > Thanks ! > > > > > > > > >

April 30, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo RPi and FileSystem error

by Jean Baptiste Arnaud

On rasp there a re no native boost and no OSProcess for now but OSProcess seems work well on my own Jenkins job. After few test I will send a pull request. Here is a OSProcess added version of the rasp VM https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/ARM-Experimentation/job/Raspber… On 30 Apr 2014, at 19:43, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > I thought that we did that already: > > OSEnvironment class>>#isAvailable > NativeBoost class>>#isAvailable > PlatformIndependentEnvironment > > No ? > > Are you using the latest 3.0 ? > > On 30 Apr 2014, at 18:49, Jean Baptiste Arnaud <jbaptiste.arnaud(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> That the point I want to checks it, run test and if work integrated for raspbian. >> It is completely generated it shouldn't have any problem. But ... >> >> A really nice guy can just do the image side hack to avoid FileSystem error. >> >> On 30 Apr 2014, at 18:24, Douglas McPherson <djm1329(a)san.rr.com> wrote: >> >>> As a data point, OSProcess works "out-of-the-box" with the Squeak interpreter VM shipped with Raspbian. So should be ok in Pharo, but I haven't tried it. >>> >>> Doug >>> >>> On Apr 30, 2014, at 09:03 , David T. Lewis wrote: >>> >>>>> >>>>> There are no NativeBoost on Rpi, FFI or OSProcess. >>>>> Basically the fileSystem work, but some data are fetch via env variable >>>>> and then NativeBoost. >>>>> The solution is to bypass all the request of env variable. >>>>> You should use another way until, we finish to integrate a way to request >>>>> correctly the env variable (NB on arm). >>>>> >>>>> I will studies the possibility to reintegrate fast the OSProcess plugin to >>>>> offer "better" solution. >>>> >>>> >>>> I would expect OSProcess to work without problems on Rpi, although I do >>>> not have a way to test it. The plugin should be fine. Maybe some changes >>>> will be needed on the image side for detecting the platform, I'm not sure. >>>> >>>> Let me know if I can help, I will be glad to add any necessary patches to >>>> OSProcess. >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> Best Regards >> Jean Baptiste Arnaud >> jbaptiste.arnaud(a)gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > Best Regards Jean Baptiste Arnaud jbaptiste.arnaud(a)gmail.com

April 30, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo renamed to "MuchTalk"

by kilon alios

Personally I am very interested to see how developers see Pharo, because the way they see it is also the future of Pharo the directions it is going. So while some may find these type of discussion derailing its very important for the direction of Pharo. Even though its very important to add code to Pharo and enhance and bug fix, its also very important to have a clear vision that the community agrees on. The discussion also has raised some important issues of how Pharo is promoted, obviously Promotion of Pharo is a rather huge deal for Pharo future. I see these Emails as the start of a very long process in the future of Pharo where the community tries to feel in the dark its path and the values it represents. Its also important to get the message (Pharo is all about messages afterall) loud and clear to newcomers or people considering giving Pharo a try. Sean I am definitely interested in the discussion and your opinion, I have very little to contribute to it, but its great to hear the opinion of people that have very large experience of Smalltalk. Some say "opinions are like assholes everyone has one" (no intention to be rude) but my belief is opinions however wrong they may be, do matter because they reveal personal needs , desires and dreams. Pharo like every other product out there is made to please people and accommodate for these things. Also these discussions are far from exclusive to Pharo. I am coming from Python there there is the Zen of Pharo. " 1. Beautiful is better than ugly. 2. Explicit is better than implicit. 3. Simple is better than complex. 4. Complex is better than complicated. 5. Flat is better than nested. 6. Sparse is better than dense. 7. Readability counts. 8. Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules. 1. Although practicality beats purity. 9. Errors should never pass silently. 1. Unless explicitly silenced. 10. In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess. 11. There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it. 1. Although that way may not be obvious at first unless you're Dutch. 12. Now is better than never. 1. Although never is often better than *right* now. 13. If the implementation is hard to explain, it's a bad idea. 14. If the implementation is easy to explain, it may be a good idea. 15. NameSpace <http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?NameSpace>s are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those! 16. " This started as a joke from a single guy. Then it was included as a module in python standard library , the moment you import the module it executes a method that prints this text. The joke became something very serious, it is something that many python library authors take as a guide for designing their libraries. This piece of joke has become so serious that currently python libraries uses this set of principles and libraries that don't are labeled by python coders as "unpythonic" which is considered a bad thing. For me this indicates that a community has chosen a path and most importantly a path they have chosen to walk together as one unit. I don't think there is anything stronger than that. On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 11:52 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com>wrote: > onierstrasz wrote > > 117 emails since I checked a few hours ago? > > 110 of those were mine, sorry :-P > Signing off for today... > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Pharo-renamed-to-MuchTalk-tp4757347p4757349.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > >

April 30, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo is Smalltalkâ¦ and Not

by Andreas Wacknitz

Why not just 'Pharo is a Smalltalk for the 21st century. What we have now C#, Java and the like will try to âinvent" during the next thirty years! If you want the future now come and take a closer look...' Andreas

April 30, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Vm-dev] Pharo 3.0 Released!

by Tudor Girba

Every once in a while, many little pieces come together and reveal a great puzzle. This is one of those moments. Fantastic work, everyone! Doru On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 4:01 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>wrote: > > Dear World, > > Pharo 3.0 (http://www.pharo.org) is here. > > [image: pastedGraphic.png] > > The past year seemed short as we got busy building more than usual. Many > things have changed in Pharo. Here are the highlights: > - The new modular Opal compiler is now the default compiler used in the > system. > - The Athens vector graphics canvas is now integrated and it supports > Cairo rendering on all platforms. > - Many tools have been rewritten using Spec, a new framework for building > user interfaces. > - Versionner and Kommiter are two of the new development tools. > - RPackage, a new package mechanism got enhanced with tags and is fully > integrated in the system. > - The debugger model was rewritten to become modular, the inspector > received a bump to support multiple views, and the Nautilus code browser > supports tags, search and lot more improvements. > - Morphic has seen many cleanings and improvements and the visual theme > has been revamped. > > These are just the more prominent highlights, but the details are just as > important. We have closed 2364 issues in Pharo 3 (compared with 1727 issues > in Pharo 2). Take a moment to go through a more detailed recount of the > progress: > > > https://github.com/pharo-project/ChangeLogs/blob/master/Pharo30ChangeLogs.md > > Pharo is improving on many fronts. Just take a look at the code city of > Pharo (built with Pharo for Pharo). Every building is a class, and the red > bricks represent the modified methods in Pharo 3. > > [image: pastedGraphic_1.png] > > Many things are changing but the system gets more stable. Moving from > Pharo 2 to Pharo 3 is almost a matter of just loading the code. > > Remember that Pharo is your platform. We thank all the contributors of > this release: Jean-Baptiste Arnaud, Simon Allier, Philippe Back, ClÃ©ment > Bera, Alexandre Bergel, Torsten Bergmann, Usman Bhatti, Vincent Blondeau, > Noury Bouraqadi, Johan Brichau, Camillo Bruni, Sven Van Caekenberghe, > Damien Cassou, Nicolas Cellier, Guido Chari, Dimitris Chloupis, Bernardo > Contreras, Ben Coman, Gabriel Omar Cotelli, Jordi Delgado, Tommaso Del > Sasso, Gisela Decuzzi, Christophe Demarey, Sean DeNigris, Marcus Denker, > Martin Dias, Erwan Douaille, Stephane Ducasse, Stephan Eggermont, Pablo > Estefo, Luc Fabresse, Johan Fabry, Hilaire Fernandes, Nahuel Garbezza, Leo > Gassman, Lucas Giudice, Tudor Girba, Thierry Goubier, Norbert Hartl, Dale > Henrichs, Pablo Herrero, Nicolai Hess, Andre Hora, Alejandro Infante, > Ricardo Jacas, Henrik Sperre Johansen, Denis Kudryashov, Pavel Krivanek, > Juraj Kubelka, Laurent Laffont, Jannik Laval, Max Leske, David Lewis, Diego > Lont, Esteban Lorenzano, Stefan Marr, Mariano Martinez Peck, Roberto > Minelli, Hernan Morales Durand, Eliot Miranda, Fernando Olivero, Nicolas > Papagna Maldonado, Nick Papoylias, Nicolas Passerini, Vanessa PeÃ±a, Nicolas > Petton, Alain Plantec, Guillermo Polito, Damien Pollet, Jochen Rick, > Benjamin Van Ryseghem, Ronie Salgado, Camille Teruel, Juan Pablo Sandoval > Alcocer, Samir Saleh, Frank Shearar, Igor Stasenko, Aliaksei Syrel, > Sebastian Tleye, Yuriy Tymchuk, Andres Valloud, Martin Walk, Hernan > Wilkinson. > And many many more who contributed indirectly, by reporting bugs, > participating in discussion threads, providing feedback... > > Pharo 3.0 is the largest step we took since we started. Yet, itâs just a > step. Expect more. Much more. > > Enjoy! > The Pharo Team > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

April 30, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo renamed to "MuchTalk"

by Sean P. DeNigris

onierstrasz wrote > 117 emails since I checked a few hours ago? 110 of those were mine, sorry :-P Signing off for today... ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-renamed-to-MuchTalk-tp4757347p4757349.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

April 30, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo is Smalltalkâ¦ and Not

by Sean P. DeNigris

Here's my musings about how we integrate the two motives - to acknowledge our heritage /and/ break out of our pigeon hole. My key point here is to gradually introduce the Smalltalk part after people are deep enough to have gotten excited about the ideas without dismissing them because of cultural baggage... Drilling down: 1. Sound bite: "Pharo - The immersive programming experience" 2. Why Pharo: (about a paragraph, like the one on the site now, "Pharo gives you immediate and total control over your programming experience..." 3. What is it. Here we can accurately paint the nuanced picture, distinguishing Smalltalk as an idea based on design principles vs. Smalltalk-80. If "Smalltalk" more exactly means an environment + libraries + a language (I think that order is important - the syntax was always the least interesting thing about Smalltalk). What we might really say if we had the time to go beyond an initial sound bite is: Pharo is: - a [pick 2 or 3 of: dynamic, open, immersive, live] environment (like an IDE and OS rolled into one) - beautifully designed core libraries including a web client/server, FFI, Y, Z... - a dialect of the Smalltalk programming language For #1, the inspiration is most accurately the Dynabook For #2, IMHO enough components have been rewritten to stand on it's own For #3, this is where we are most obviously a Smalltalk, and should be clear about it And in an FAQ answer any common objections people might have: Q: Is Pharo Smalltalk? A: When most people hear "Smalltalk", they think of Smalltalk-80, which Pharo is not. However, Smalltalk is really an idea... the lineage of which Pharo is a proud member Q: Can I talk to the world outside the environment? A: Yes! While the original Smalltalk was quite insulated, now you can [interact on the command line](link to unix command line examples e.g. the very Ruby-like pharo [image filename] -e "self inform: 'hello world'"), [talk to C libraries](link to native boost), etc. yada yada yada ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-is-Smalltalk-and-Not-tp4757342p4757348.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

April 30, 2014

Pharo renamed to "MuchTalk"

by oscar＠gmail

Holy smoley! 117 emails since I checked a few hours ago? Maybe we should rename Pharo âProlixâ? :-) on

April 30, 2014