- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] About your contributions: Improve Pharo right now, right there.

by Tim Mackinnon

Benjamin - I feel your pain. I went through the same thing - and I did try to help things by updating some of the information on the FogBugz wiki (which I think you found - at least the video). I know I hit a bunch of 404 errors too - which I corrected, but I can see that you hit a few more - so I've tried to fix them too. The Fogbugz wiki now points to the contributions wiki page (as that's easier to edit) - and then I've also pointed that page onto the pharo.org contributions page. I'm sure there are more corrections that can be made - if you ask Marcus, he can give you wiki edit priv's so you can correct things as well. However - there is a bigger question for the community, where should the main documentation be? We have some on the Fogbugz wiki and some on Pharo.org - and they conflict with each other? I would suggest that more generic/simple info should be on pharo.org (e.g. stuff that doesn't change too much, and that we can polish and make it look slick) - and then we link things back to Fogbugz where the details can be edited and updated by the wider community? (which is what I have tried to do having hit the same stumbling block as Benjamin). Tim -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/About-your-contributions-Improve-Pharo-right-now-righ… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Aug. 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] About your contributions: Improve Pharo right now, right there.

by Benjamin Pollack

On Aug 4, 2014, at 3:51 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > Hi guys > > I'm sure that most of you did not realize it, but Pharo does not magically improve. It improves because some of us are looking > at the tracker issues and looking at the code and improving it. > > Since Pharo is yours I wonder why you do not take the time to improve. In fact, this is the key advantage of true open-source: being able to have > an impact. An example, I was fed up to have a stupid widget to move method between protocol and classes between packages. I fixed it. > It took my 20 min without knowing anything about Nautilus. > > And it improved Pharo Right now, Right there. > Of course if more people would be improving Pharo we could also focus on enabling technology and frameworks. But > apparently we have to choose either we improve Pharo now or we invent cool stuff that takes time. > I wonder why I do not go for the fame of writing a cool stuff instead of just improving systematically the system. > > I wrote some roadmaps for people willing also to help. > > https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-workingRoadmaps > Okay, so thatâs good, but you guys really need to improve the documentation on the mechanical walkthrough of how to actually claim and submit a bug fix. Today, I happened to have some spare time, so I figured, what the hell, why not see if I canât fix some bugs blocking the Pharo 4 release. Itâs a reach, granted, but I used to be good at Smalltalk, Iâm still a good programmer, and I figure at least one of the blockers is in the really-annoying-but-technically-easy bucket that no one was willing to touch yet, so chances are good. Armed with my old knowledge of how Squeak contrib used to work, I at least got as far as manually downloading a VM, manually downloading a .changes/.image, and manually downloading a .sources. Then I go to pharo.org andâ¦ Well, hmm. No instructions on the submission or development process? Well, no matter, I know you guys use FogBugz, so maybe on the FogBugz wiki? The landing page is unhelpful; clicking on the word âhereâ at âReporting or Fixing a Bug?â takes me to http://pharo.org/get-involved which is a 404. Heading back, I try âDocumentationâ, which contains a lot of documentation, but none how to submit fixes. Likewise, I can get great info on the workflow of a bug, but not on how to move code through that workflow. At this point, by luck, I realize that thereâs a link to âContributeâ in the TOC in FogBugz. Brilliant, exactly what I want! And it has a video walkthrough, no less, which takes me to http://vimeo.com/75183993 andâ¦nope, thatâs a 404 again. Thankfully, the link below it appears to let me download a nice MP4, which does walk me throughâ¦submitting a slice. I actually have no idea if this is the right way to do things anymore, but given that you guys seem to have a super-active GitHub repo, I kind of doubt it. And while thereâs some documentation scattered around about how to use Git and Pharo, itâs not centralized or obvious. Itâs up to the community to be involved with the tools they love and to submit patches, and youâre totally right to remind everyone that itâs up to us to improve Pharo if we want to keep it alive, but itâs up to the core team to make sure that itâs easy for us to do so, and I think that Pharoâs not doing terribly well on that front right now. âBenjamin

Aug. 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] About your contributions: Improve Pharo right now, right there.

by Nicolai Hess

2014-08-04 22:37 GMT+02:00 kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com>: > I can tell you why. Because its rarely is simple for people not familiar > with Pharo like me. > > I once tried to help Damien with PharoLauncher. I added the progress bars > you get when you download a new image it was simple as pie. Then Damien > recommended for me to try to add support to PharoLauncher for CLI . I > understand how Pharo does CLI stuff but was not able to understand anything > about how PharoLauncher downloads and handles images. I literally spent > hours trying to understand the internal architecture and gave up after 2 > hours or so cause I had no clue how things worked. > > Also finding a bug to fix in Pharo is time consuming, you have to go > through one bug after another till you find that you can figure out whats > wrong and how to fix. Its not easy and its very annoying at times. > > Generally what kills me is lack of motivation, I don't like reading > other's people code, I don't even like reading my code. I prefer > documentation , If I am to fix a bug I want at least someone to show me how > it works because figuring it by myself takes a lot of time and I am simply > not willing to invest that time just because people find documentation > something that should write one day when their software reaches version 1 > meaning years later. > > So you want to motivate people to contribute to bug fixes ? Do not allow > any code to enter pharo main distribution without full class comments. I > really mean "full class comment" not 2 , or 3 lines. > > PBE has been left hanging years after the release of 1.4 , why ? you > expect people to contribute to bug fixes even when the most basic of > documentation is abandoned ? > > Sorry if I sound harsh but you wanted a honest answer . For me > undocumented code is far more annoying than a bug or a missing feature. > I find it a bit to harsh :) +1 for more source code documentation, but keep in mind that there are people that may not do proper documentation (even change code or fix bugs and don't document their code) but doing A LOT for pharo behind the scenes. > > > On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 10:51 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > >> Hi guys >> >> I'm sure that most of you did not realize it, but Pharo does not >> magically improve. It improves because some of us are looking >> at the tracker issues and looking at the code and improving it. >> >> Since Pharo is yours I wonder why you do not take the time to improve. In >> fact, this is the key advantage of true open-source: being able to have >> an impact. An example, I was fed up to have a stupid widget to move >> method between protocol and classes between packages. I fixed it. >> It took my 20 min without knowing anything about Nautilus. >> >> And it improved Pharo Right now, Right there. >> Of course if more people would be improving Pharo we could also focus on >> enabling technology and frameworks. But >> apparently we have to choose either we improve Pharo now or we invent >> cool stuff that takes time. >> I wonder why I do not go for the fame of writing a cool stuff instead of >> just improving systematically the system. >> >> I wrote some roadmaps for people willing also to help. >> >> https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-workingRoadmaps >> >> Stef >> >> >> >

Aug. 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] About your contributions: Improve Pharo right now, right there.

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Writing all kinds of documentation, inside and outside the image is a very important and much appreciated contribution. On 04 Aug 2014, at 22:37, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I can tell you why. Because its rarely is simple for people not familiar with Pharo like me. > > I once tried to help Damien with PharoLauncher. I added the progress bars you get when you download a new image it was simple as pie. Then Damien recommended for me to try to add support to PharoLauncher for CLI . I understand how Pharo does CLI stuff but was not able to understand anything about how PharoLauncher downloads and handles images. I literally spent hours trying to understand the internal architecture and gave up after 2 hours or so cause I had no clue how things worked. > > Also finding a bug to fix in Pharo is time consuming, you have to go through one bug after another till you find that you can figure out whats wrong and how to fix. Its not easy and its very annoying at times. > > Generally what kills me is lack of motivation, I don't like reading other's people code, I don't even like reading my code. I prefer documentation , If I am to fix a bug I want at least someone to show me how it works because figuring it by myself takes a lot of time and I am simply not willing to invest that time just because people find documentation something that should write one day when their software reaches version 1 meaning years later. > > So you want to motivate people to contribute to bug fixes ? Do not allow any code to enter pharo main distribution without full class comments. I really mean "full class comment" not 2 , or 3 lines. > > PBE has been left hanging years after the release of 1.4 , why ? you expect people to contribute to bug fixes even when the most basic of documentation is abandoned ? > > Sorry if I sound harsh but you wanted a honest answer . For me undocumented code is far more annoying than a bug or a missing feature. > > > On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 10:51 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > Hi guys > > I'm sure that most of you did not realize it, but Pharo does not magically improve. It improves because some of us are looking > at the tracker issues and looking at the code and improving it. > > Since Pharo is yours I wonder why you do not take the time to improve. In fact, this is the key advantage of true open-source: being able to have > an impact. An example, I was fed up to have a stupid widget to move method between protocol and classes between packages. I fixed it. > It took my 20 min without knowing anything about Nautilus. > > And it improved Pharo Right now, Right there. > Of course if more people would be improving Pharo we could also focus on enabling technology and frameworks. But > apparently we have to choose either we improve Pharo now or we invent cool stuff that takes time. > I wonder why I do not go for the fame of writing a cool stuff instead of just improving systematically the system. > > I wrote some roadmaps for people willing also to help. > > https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-workingRoadmaps > > Stef > > >

Aug. 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [pharo-project/pharo-core] ea9df7: 40138

by stepharo

Thanks you could also provide code :) Stef On 4/8/14 23:04, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: > stepharo wrote >> add an entry and assign to camille. > Done https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?13770 > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/pharo-project-pharo-core-ea9df7-40138-tp4770903p47717… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > >

Aug. 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [pharo-project/pharo-core] ea9df7: 40138

by Sean P. DeNigris

stepharo wrote > add an entry and assign to camille. Done https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?13770 ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/pharo-project-pharo-core-ea9df7-40138-tp4770903p47717… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Aug. 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] About your contributions: Improve Pharo right now, right there.

by kilon alios

I can tell you why. Because its rarely is simple for people not familiar with Pharo like me. I once tried to help Damien with PharoLauncher. I added the progress bars you get when you download a new image it was simple as pie. Then Damien recommended for me to try to add support to PharoLauncher for CLI . I understand how Pharo does CLI stuff but was not able to understand anything about how PharoLauncher downloads and handles images. I literally spent hours trying to understand the internal architecture and gave up after 2 hours or so cause I had no clue how things worked. Also finding a bug to fix in Pharo is time consuming, you have to go through one bug after another till you find that you can figure out whats wrong and how to fix. Its not easy and its very annoying at times. Generally what kills me is lack of motivation, I don't like reading other's people code, I don't even like reading my code. I prefer documentation , If I am to fix a bug I want at least someone to show me how it works because figuring it by myself takes a lot of time and I am simply not willing to invest that time just because people find documentation something that should write one day when their software reaches version 1 meaning years later. So you want to motivate people to contribute to bug fixes ? Do not allow any code to enter pharo main distribution without full class comments. I really mean "full class comment" not 2 , or 3 lines. PBE has been left hanging years after the release of 1.4 , why ? you expect people to contribute to bug fixes even when the most basic of documentation is abandoned ? Sorry if I sound harsh but you wanted a honest answer . For me undocumented code is far more annoying than a bug or a missing feature. On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 10:51 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > Hi guys > > I'm sure that most of you did not realize it, but Pharo does not magically > improve. It improves because some of us are looking > at the tracker issues and looking at the code and improving it. > > Since Pharo is yours I wonder why you do not take the time to improve. In > fact, this is the key advantage of true open-source: being able to have > an impact. An example, I was fed up to have a stupid widget to move > method between protocol and classes between packages. I fixed it. > It took my 20 min without knowing anything about Nautilus. > > And it improved Pharo Right now, Right there. > Of course if more people would be improving Pharo we could also focus on > enabling technology and frameworks. But > apparently we have to choose either we improve Pharo now or we invent cool > stuff that takes time. > I wonder why I do not go for the fame of writing a cool stuff instead of > just improving systematically the system. > > I wrote some roadmaps for people willing also to help. > > https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-workingRoadmaps > > Stef > > >

Aug. 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Problem with creating a reference of OSProcess

by kilon alios

yes temp fixes this. Strange bug . I also see it works with class variables, so it not as a big problem as I feared, thanks Stef :) On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 10:33 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > you should add temp declaration. > > Apparently this is needed now. At least I got the same error and just > adding temps fixed it. > > Stef > > > On 4/8/14 21:13, kilon alios wrote: > > when I do this > > thiproc := OSProcess thisOSProcess . > > I get this > > Association(Object)>>doesNotUnderstand: #emitStore: > OCLiteralVariable>>emitStore: > OCASTTranslatorForValue(OCASTTranslator)>>visitAssignmentNode: > RBAssignmentNode>>acceptVisitor: > OCASTTranslatorForValue(RBProgramNodeVisitor)>>visitNode: > OCASTTranslatorForValue(OCASTTranslator)>>visitNode: > OCASTTranslatorForEffect(OCASTTranslator)>>visitReturnNode: > RBReturnNode>>acceptVisitor: > OCASTTranslatorForEffect(RBProgramNodeVisitor)>>visitNode: > OCASTTranslatorForEffect(OCASTTranslator)>>visitNode: > [ :each | self visitNode: each ] in > OCASTTranslatorForEffect>>visitSequenceNode: in Block: [ :each | self > visitNode: each ] > Array(SequenceableCollection)>>do: > OCASTTranslatorForEffect>>visitSequenceNode: > RBSequenceNode>>acceptVisitor: > OCASTTranslatorForEffect(RBProgramNodeVisitor)>>visitNode: > OCASTTranslatorForEffect(OCASTTranslator)>>visitNode: > OCASTTranslator>>visitMethodNode: > RBMethodNode>>acceptVisitor: > OCASTTranslator(RBProgramNodeVisitor)>>visitNode: > OCASTTranslator>>visitNode: > RBMethodNode>>generateIR > RBMethodNode>>generate: > [ > [ > ast := self parse. > self doSemanticAnalysis ] > on: OCSourceCodeChanged > do: [ :notification | > self source: notification newSourceCode. > notification retry ]. > cm := ast generate: self compilationContext compiledMethodTrailer ] in > OpalCompiler>>compile in Block: [ ... > BlockClosure>>on:do: > OpalCompiler>>compile > [ self compile ] in OpalCompiler>>translate in Block: [ self compile ] > BlockClosure>>on:do: > OpalCompiler>>translate > OpalCompiler>>evaluate > SmalltalkEditor>>evaluateSelectionAndDo: > > Do I do something wrong ? > > I can inspect the object just fine. > > >

Aug. 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Problem with creating a reference of OSProcess

by Guillermo Polito

Ha, the Workspace stores variables in a Dictionary, which contains Associations instead of the new global variable objects! Maybe we need to introduce a new kind of collection containing the new Global variables or something like that? (okok, a global variable is not exactly what you have in a workspace, so I don't like the name) On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 9:33 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > you should add temp declaration. > > Apparently this is needed now. At least I got the same error and just > adding temps fixed it. > > Stef > > > On 4/8/14 21:13, kilon alios wrote: > > when I do this > > thiproc := OSProcess thisOSProcess . > > I get this > > Association(Object)>>doesNotUnderstand: #emitStore: > OCLiteralVariable>>emitStore: > OCASTTranslatorForValue(OCASTTranslator)>>visitAssignmentNode: > RBAssignmentNode>>acceptVisitor: > OCASTTranslatorForValue(RBProgramNodeVisitor)>>visitNode: > OCASTTranslatorForValue(OCASTTranslator)>>visitNode: > OCASTTranslatorForEffect(OCASTTranslator)>>visitReturnNode: > RBReturnNode>>acceptVisitor: > OCASTTranslatorForEffect(RBProgramNodeVisitor)>>visitNode: > OCASTTranslatorForEffect(OCASTTranslator)>>visitNode: > [ :each | self visitNode: each ] in > OCASTTranslatorForEffect>>visitSequenceNode: in Block: [ :each | self > visitNode: each ] > Array(SequenceableCollection)>>do: > OCASTTranslatorForEffect>>visitSequenceNode: > RBSequenceNode>>acceptVisitor: > OCASTTranslatorForEffect(RBProgramNodeVisitor)>>visitNode: > OCASTTranslatorForEffect(OCASTTranslator)>>visitNode: > OCASTTranslator>>visitMethodNode: > RBMethodNode>>acceptVisitor: > OCASTTranslator(RBProgramNodeVisitor)>>visitNode: > OCASTTranslator>>visitNode: > RBMethodNode>>generateIR > RBMethodNode>>generate: > [ > [ > ast := self parse. > self doSemanticAnalysis ] > on: OCSourceCodeChanged > do: [ :notification | > self source: notification newSourceCode. > notification retry ]. > cm := ast generate: self compilationContext compiledMethodTrailer ] in > OpalCompiler>>compile in Block: [ ... > BlockClosure>>on:do: > OpalCompiler>>compile > [ self compile ] in OpalCompiler>>translate in Block: [ self compile ] > BlockClosure>>on:do: > OpalCompiler>>translate > OpalCompiler>>evaluate > SmalltalkEditor>>evaluateSelectionAndDo: > > Do I do something wrong ? > > I can inspect the object just fine. > > >

Aug. 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [pharo-project/pharo-core] ea9df7: 40138

by stepharo

sean add an entry and assign to camille. We got confused with igor and it took us a while to find. I think that the implementation in Analyse was not necessary. (so probably having 2 and 3 is ok) even if I never saw the difference. Stef On 4/8/14 15:08, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: > GitHub wrote >> 13729 3 menu item to generate inst var accessors >> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13729 > I left a comment in the issue, but maybe no one is checking there since it's > closed... > > >From the original comment: > There is currently 3 menu items to generate iv accessors: > Analyse > Create inst var accessors > Refactoring > Class Refactoring > Generate accessors > Refactoring > Inst Var Refactoring > Accessors > > Each one has it's own underlying logic. I keep the second that has a > shortcut associated and remove the two others. > > Please put back #3. It is a different use case. #2 is a batch operation > adding accessors for all inst vars. #3 adds accessors for one inst var. When > many inst vars are involved, it is tedious to deselect all the other > accessors... > > The main problem was not that there was multiple options, but that they were > poorly organized (see > http://forum.world.st/Nautilus-accessor-over-generation-td4679480.html) > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/pharo-project-pharo-core-ea9df7-40138-tp4770903p47717… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >

Aug. 4, 2014