- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] GTPlayground wrong cursor position

by Nicolai Hess

Am 03.10.2014 07:37 schrieb "Alain Plantec" <alain.plantec(a)yahoo.com>: > > a Rubric issue I guess. > I will have a look. > Cheers > Alain > Thank you. It looks like the cursor positioning and syntax highlighing happens in different processes, right? > On 3 oct. 2014, at 07:25, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > > I do not know :( > > > > Doru > > > > On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 11:46 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> wrote: > > Someone knows why this happens ? > > Sometimes the cursor is at the wrong textposition. At least > > it looks like that. Newly entered characters are on the right position. > > (see screenshot ) > > > > > > > > > > -- > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > > "Every thing has its own flow" > >

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Cmd-o is not opening a new pane?

by phil＠highoctane.be

Window plague maybe, but Ctrl-w is closing them quite fast too. As well as the Windows > Delete Unchanged windows menu entry. Tiling Windows Manager kind of helps too. It is important to have all of those windows when drilling down into a complicated feature with senders and implementors. That is a differentiating factor vs other IDEs. (Ok, Vim can :sp and :vsp a lot but this is not the same feeling). Phil On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 10:13 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On 03 Oct 2014, at 10:08, Christophe Demarey <Christophe.Demarey(a)inria.fr> > wrote: > > > > > Le 3 oct. 2014 Ã 08:26, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : > > > >> well, but thatâs something that *now* you cannot do. > >> what people will see now is âcmd+i does one thing in playground, and > other thing in other parts of the system". > > > > Maybe it is me but what I see is cmd+i => inspect. > > I will be more confused to use cmd+o in GT and cmd+i everywhere else. > > > > another argument: everyone agrees that we open too many windows (*far* too > many windows) and that we > need to change the IDE to do that less. > > Now if we declare âevery keystroke that used to open a window needs to > open a window forever and in all > contextsâ, then it will be hard to solve the window-plagueâ¦ > > Marcus > >

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Cmd-o is not opening a new pane?

by Marcus Denker

On 03 Oct 2014, at 10:08, Christophe Demarey <Christophe.Demarey(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > Le 3 oct. 2014 Ã 08:26, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : > >> well, but thatâs something that *now* you cannot do. >> what people will see now is âcmd+i does one thing in playground, and other thing in other parts of the system". > > Maybe it is me but what I see is cmd+i => inspect. > I will be more confused to use cmd+o in GT and cmd+i everywhere else. > another argument: everyone agrees that we open too many windows (*far* too many windows) and that we need to change the IDE to do that less. Now if we declare âevery keystroke that used to open a window needs to open a window forever and in all contextsâ, then it will be hard to solve the window-plagueâ¦ Marcus

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Cmd-o is not opening a new pane?

by Christophe Demarey

Le 3 oct. 2014 Ã 08:26, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : > well, but thatâs something that *now* you cannot do. > what people will see now is âcmd+i does one thing in playground, and other thing in other parts of the system". Maybe it is me but what I see is cmd+i => inspect. I will be more confused to use cmd+o in GT and cmd+i everywhere else. My 2 cents, Christophe.

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Cmd-o is not opening a new pane?

by Esteban Lorenzano

No, they are not "Pharo ready" in general. I'm working in a change proposal... > On 3 Oct 2014, at 09:30, "phil(a)highoctane.be" <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: > > Question about those icons, are they DarkTheme ready? I have had to invert them all by hand to have something looking nice (and do all kinds of changes to be able to read the contents). > > Also, as GT is using Rubric, the default black/dark text has to be turned into white as well as the cursor color in order to see something. > > Phil > >> On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:44 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >> On a separate note, I played with another variation of a go icon that would be more specific to Pharo. Would you like this better? >> >> <go-icon.png> >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> >>> On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:35 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >>> I understand. But, even now, you associated Cmd+i as a window action. Is it a stretch to see it as a logical action that materializes in different ways? >>> >>> Doru >>> >>>> On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> well, but thatâs something that *now* you cannot do. >>>> what people will see now is âcmd+i does one thing in playground, and other thing in other parts of the system". >>>> For me, thatâs not coherent, and introduces a level of pain. >>>> We are still trying to fix the annoying introduced by nautilus because commands are different on it than the rest of the systemâ¦ I would like to avoid that. >>>> >>>> Esteban >>>> >>>>> On 03 Oct 2014, at 08:17, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> What if you see it like this: Cmd+i inspects. If you can inspect in place, you do it, otherwise, you inspect in a new window. I know it would require a bit of getting used to, but imagine what will happen when the class browser will allow you to inspect in place ... oops, perhaps I should have not say it loud :) >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Doru >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:11 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> yes, because it will be "open panel" in playground and "popup an inspector" everyplace else. >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 7:47 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >>>>>>> Why do you think that the "Cmd+i" option introduces incoherence? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Doru >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 11:45 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> you have to pay attention to other lists other than moose, Alex :) >>>>>>>> nah, seriously: we have been discussing on a remap, because it is conflicting with other keybindings we have in pharo (cmd+o+[others]). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For now, we have three proposals: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> cmd+e âexecuteâ >>>>>>>> cmd+g âgoâ >>>>>>>> cmd+i, and remap gtinspector to cmd+I >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> personally I prefer the second one. >>>>>>>> the third one looks like a good idea, but it will introduce an incoherence in the system (unless we remap everything, everywhere), so I prefer to stick with âcmd+gâ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Esteban >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > On 02 Oct 2014, at 23:28, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > It does in the moose image. Pity, this is so useful... >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > Cheers, >>>>>>>> > Alexandre >>>>>>>> > -- >>>>>>>> > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>>>> > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>>>> > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>> >>>>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> >>> "Every thing has its own flow" >> >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" >

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Cmd-o is not opening a new pane?

by Marcus Denker

On 03 Oct 2014, at 09:30, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > Question about those icons, are they DarkTheme ready? I have had to invert them all by hand to have something looking nice (and do all kinds of changes to be able to read the contents). > > Also, as GT is using Rubric, the default black/dark text has to be turned into white as well as the cursor color in order to see something. > As far as I know: no, this is work on progress. Marcus

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Cmd-o is not opening a new pane?

by phil＠highoctane.be

Question about those icons, are they DarkTheme ready? I have had to invert them all by hand to have something looking nice (and do all kinds of changes to be able to read the contents). Also, as GT is using Rubric, the default black/dark text has to be turned into white as well as the cursor color in order to see something. Phil On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:44 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > On a separate note, I played with another variation of a go icon that > would be more specific to Pharo. Would you like this better? > > [image: Inline image 1] > > Cheers, > Doru > > > > On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:35 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > >> I understand. But, even now, you associated Cmd+i as a window action. Is >> it a stretch to see it as a logical action that materializes in different >> ways? >> >> Doru >> >> On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> well, but thatâs something that *now* you cannot do. >>> what people will see now is âcmd+i does one thing in playground, and >>> other thing in other parts of the system". >>> For me, thatâs not coherent, and introduces a level of pain. >>> We are still trying to fix the annoying introduced by nautilus because >>> commands are different on it than the rest of the systemâ¦ I would like to >>> avoid that. >>> >>> Esteban >>> >>> On 03 Oct 2014, at 08:17, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> What if you see it like this: Cmd+i inspects. If you can inspect in >>> place, you do it, otherwise, you inspect in a new window. I know it would >>> require a bit of getting used to, but imagine what will happen when the >>> class browser will allow you to inspect in place ... oops, perhaps I should >>> have not say it loud :) >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Doru >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:11 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> yes, because it will be "open panel" in playground and "popup an >>>> inspector" everyplace else. >>>> >>>> On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 7:47 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Why do you think that the "Cmd+i" option introduces incoherence? >>>>> >>>>> Doru >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 11:45 PM, Esteban Lorenzano < >>>>> estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> you have to pay attention to other lists other than moose, Alex :) >>>>>> nah, seriously: we have been discussing on a remap, because it is >>>>>> conflicting with other keybindings we have in pharo (cmd+o+[others]). >>>>>> >>>>>> For now, we have three proposals: >>>>>> >>>>>> cmd+e âexecuteâ >>>>>> cmd+g âgoâ >>>>>> cmd+i, and remap gtinspector to cmd+I >>>>>> >>>>>> personally I prefer the second one. >>>>>> the third one looks like a good idea, but it will introduce an >>>>>> incoherence in the system (unless we remap everything, everywhere), so I >>>>>> prefer to stick with âcmd+gâ >>>>>> >>>>>> Esteban >>>>>> >>>>>> > On 02 Oct 2014, at 23:28, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > It does in the moose image. Pity, this is so useful... >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Cheers, >>>>>> > Alexandre >>>>>> > -- >>>>>> > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>>> > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>>> > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>>> >>>>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> >>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" >> > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow" >

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground

by phil＠highoctane.be

Well, I am COMPLAINING LOUDLY about this lack of menu entries then. I hate this super shrunk list of entries in the playground and the GT toolset. I love GT, but I hate those damn menus that do not have what I do need (which is give me the full menu where I do use the same options Kilon mentioned). Also, on Cmd-o used to open about all tools, yes, Cmd-o Cmd-p --> Monticello Cmd-o Cmd-w --> Workspace Cmd-o Cmd-b --> Browser etc. Just GTInspect KMCategory allInstances and see the two global shortcuts categories (one for Spotlight, one for the global shortcuts - and yeah, they should have a name displayed other than nil). On my own little Pharo, I've set addtional shortcuts for the Finder, the File Browser etc as these are sorely missing. And GT as well. Cmd-o Cmd-g for opening a Play<g>round. So that I can keep Cmd-o Cmd-w for opening a Workspace and keeping all of its abilities intact (and not feel crippled by those replacements). I actually like Esteban's proposal for Cmd-g as what we do with the playground is "give it a go", which is different from a doIt, which can stay local and not have side effects on the right side. Phil On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:20 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On 02 Oct 2014, at 21:36, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > > > On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 5:19 PM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Is it just me or is the Playground a big step back in the usability of >> Pharo ? >> >> For me its Gui makes no sense. Gone is the right click menu which had >> tons of useful actions now you only get like a few options. The tab thing >> is weird to say the least with the navigation of the tabs being in the >> opposite side (bottom) of the navigation of the internal tabs(top). No more >> right arrow menu for shortcuts and many features that workspace had. >> > > I will concede that the contextual menu is incomplete. We will work on > that. In the meantime, the keybindings work as in the classic workspace. > > > And one needs to take into account that the âpullâ strategy for menu items > is much better than a âpushâ: Instead of adding just everything that was > there, wait till people > get *really* upset and implement it. This proves that they *really* need > it :-) > > In a way we used that strategy *a lot* for Pharoâ¦ we removed so many menu > entries everywhere. Or Settingsâ¦ the amount of settings that I removed, I > guess >100? > > And the fun thing is: nobody ever complained :-) > > But if I would have asked: you can be sure that someone reacts like âI > never used it but now that you tell me, I want to keep itâ. > (this is true for every unused feature. Just remove and wait. Never ask. > If you ask you will have to keep it. People react to removing unused > features as if you would > take something away from them that was just stored securely for bad times, > as if it would be deeply ingrained in our genes or something). > > Marcus >

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground

by Tudor Girba

It is precisely those points that are not so obvious that are important to discover. That is why your feedback is important. Please keep the questions and suggestions coming. Cheers, Doru On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 9:00 AM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks I will read those and try it in practise this way it will be easier > to me to connect the dots. I was not aware of them, maybe add them to a > chapter to Pharo for the Enterprise to make them more visible , they will > also need to be added to PBE for beginners because many things about this > tool are not obvious. Still a long way till Pharo 4 is release so you have > plenty of time to polish things up. > > â > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Oct. 3, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground

by kilon alios

Thanks I will read those and try it in practise this way it will be easier to me to connect the dots. I was not aware of them, maybe add them to a chapter to Pharo for the Enterprise to make them more visible , they will also need to be added to PBE for beginners because many things about this tool are not obvious. Still a long way till Pharo 4 is release so you have plenty of time to polish things up. â

Oct. 3, 2014