- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] CompiledMethod>>hash can produce clashes

by Ben Coman

Richard Sargent wrote: > Eliot Miranda-2 wrote >> On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Richard Sargent < > >> richard.sargent@ > >>> wrote: >>> One of the best things about Smalltalk is how easily we can say what we >>> mean. I think you would be better off creating a method named something >>> like >>> #hasSameEffectAs: to answer what you are presently using #= to do, and >>> change #= to answer the, in my opinion, more sensible "is the same as" >>> that >>> we conventionally think of #= meaning. >>> >> But that's the point. #= has to mean something and having it mean #== >> isn't useful, so one has to choose some value-based semantic for >> CompiledMethod>>#= and the one that's there is useful. Defining what #= >> means for some value type is far easier than defining what it might mean >> for something as complex as a CompiledMethod. The definition in >> Squeak/Pharo has been useful to me in implementing a closure-based system, >> so I'm unapologetic about the current definition. It is a good one but it >> doesn't preclude defining others. > > An interesting response. You ignored the point that e.g. #hasSameEffectAs: > provides greater clarity and add an argument against something I didn't say. > > I also don't think defining equality for a CompiledMethod is particularly > difficult. If I were to recompile a method's source code, I would get a new > instance of a CompiledMethod that would, in my opinion, be equal to the one > already installed in the class (and perhaps cached in the VM's > optimizations). So one would be able to say that we would not replace an > existing CompiledMethod with an equal one. The current implementation of #= > has no such characteristic, since it proclaims a CompiledMethod named #a to > be equal to one named #z. > @Richard That doesn't seem to be a good example for what your trying to say. Given... [1] SomeClass>>a "original instance" ^1 [2] SomeClass>>a "recompiled instance" ^1 [3] SomeClass>>z ^1 ...you seem to be saying that its useful to know if [1]=[2], but imply that is invalidated by [2]=[3] ? But [1]=[2] remains true, and just as useful for your example. @Max I guess to call it a bug, you bumped into a different use case where [2]=[3] is problematic. Can you describe that? cheers -ben > The blue book say #= means "Answer whether the receiver and the argument > represent the same component." The current implementation does so only for > some, in my opinion, counter-intuitive definition of "same component". > > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/CompiledMethod-hash-can-produce-clashes-tp4784722p478… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >

Oct. 17, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground and its current usability in Pharo4.0 Latest update: #40307

by Ben Coman

Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > On 16 Oct 2014, at 22:34, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > >> On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 10:23 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> wrote: >> I too miss the old workspace sometimes. >> Mostly for "printIt". >> Playgrounds printIt-popup is good, but sometimes I want exactly that: "print it". >> On "Esc", the popup closes , but the code is still selected. Most of the time I >> want to go on typing, but first I have to unselect the code. >> >> Suggestions: >> on "Esc" close the popup and unselect the current selection >> >> Good point. > > +1 > >> on "Enter" insert the printIt-result. >> >> Indeed, this is something I thought of, too. However, I am not convinced that the frequency of needing to insert the result of "print it" warrants a shortcut I often have a few lines of snippets listed in a Workspace that I want to compare the results, or copy/paste the lot to some documentation. I was thinking of asking for a <pin> icon/button, but inserting as text is a better idea. >> that can be so easily use (i.e., Enter can be used also for adding a line). Right now, if you want to insert, you do Cmd+c, Esc, Cmd+v. I would go for <space> rather than <enter>, since intuitively that keeps you on the same line. > > I also don't think 'Print It' is not that common, and if you use it you want the output to be in a comment anyway so the syntax highlighting doesn't make everything red. When the result is inserted, surrounding it by comment quotes is a good idea. cheers -ben > I also wanted to add that the whole idea of GT-Tools is to do a lot and even more powerful things based on a few simple concepts. > > We are currently making lots of small usability changes, which is all good, but we have to guard the simplicity. > > >

Oct. 17, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground and its current usability in Pharo4.0 Latest update: #40307

by Andrei Chis

On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 5:58 PM, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote: > Tudor wrote: > >Indeed. This was a discussion I wanted to spawn as well. I would prefer > to change the name from Workspace to Playground in the World Menu. The > reason is >that the Playground is such a distinct departure from the > Workspace that it deserves a different name. > > I do not think it is a departure from the Workspace concept. > > Therefore I would keep "Workspace" for the menu item name and the window > name. It would be enough if the initial > tab is called "Playground" because one can play in the code pane (or do > serious stuff). > > This way we would keep up with a known concept (also from other IDE's), it > meets what people would expect and > no books would have to be rewritten ;) > > BTW: Squeak had a goodie with something similar back in the days (cant > remember the name). It was neat as one > could assemble different objects and different object representations > in one navigateable window. > > > >>I would suggest to use the well known order "Cut","Copy","Paste". > >Thanks for noticing. This will be fixed. > > Thanks! > > >Indeed, we had a debate about the name. I proposed the solution 3b you > mention, but it was decided > >that it would be too confusing to change the Cmd+i action at this time, > and we chose "Go" to be > >the name of the action that is mapped on Cmd+g. > > Here we agree - I would have choosen 3b as well. Decided by whom? Did I > miss the discussion in the > list or was it offlist? > > >>...icons... > >This is a known issue and we will look at it soon. > > Sounds good. > > >At the moment, GT is an external project and the contributions should > happen directly in its repository. > > Then please add me to the repo. Still the process is unclear - will I > still provide a slice with > issue number or will I change the config. > I've added you to the moose team. If you want to fix something just commit it to the moose repo. If there is an issue, after you commit mark the issue as fix review needed and add a comment that there'a fix in the project's repo. Once or twice a week I make a new version of GTools with all the new packages that get's integrated into Pharo Cheers, Andrei > > It is not very lucky that this process was started (without > discussion/announcement/description first > and only for specific packages). > > Thx > T. > >

Oct. 16, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] OSProcess in 3.0

by phil＠highoctane.be

Le 16 oct. 2014 23:04, "Thierry Goubier" <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit : > > Le 16/10/2014 01:30, David T. Lewis a Ã©crit : > >> >> So in summary: The enhancement to PipeableOSProcess relies on an aio >> event driven reader, and if the AIO plugin is missing, the fallback code >> relies on polling, and is horribly inefficient. >> >> More to follow, and thank you again for identifying the problem. > > > Thanks! > > >> If you can convice your VM vendor to include AioPlugin in your VM, that >> would be helpful also ;-) > > > Well, now that 4.5.12/4.6.9 is the official OSProcess stable, people are starting to notice that the AioPlugin may be usefull :P For example, CommandShell! I'll have a shot on building a vm with that plugin. Phil > > Thierry > >

Oct. 16, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground and its current usability in Pharo4.0 Latest update: #40307

by Alexandre Bergel

I find that interesting that you do not have seen this. I made a small video. Here is a session: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/31543901/TMP/PrintingWithGTInspector.mov What the session does not show, is that I open the view usually to make sure the result is indeed correct. Let me know what you think. This is something very frequent in my programming style. Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. On Oct 16, 2014, at 5:37 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > I do not quite understand. Could you elaborate such a case? (I am not being thick headed, I just did not encounter this case, so I would like to know more about it) > > Doru > > On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 10:34 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: > Indeed, the print it can surely be improved. > Since I am using GTInspector, I often open a transcript and do "myObject logCrâ > I usually do this to have a string representation, useful to insert in source code. > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > On Oct 16, 2014, at 5:23 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> wrote: > >> I too miss the old workspace sometimes. >> Mostly for "printIt". >> Playgrounds printIt-popup is good, but sometimes I want exactly that: "print it". >> On "Esc", the popup closes , but the code is still selected. Most of the time I >> want to go on typing, but first I have to unselect the code. >> >> Suggestions: >> on "Esc" close the popup and unselect the current selection >> on "Enter" insert the printIt-result. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 2014-10-16 21:36 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: >> Hi, >> >> I do not quite understand this point of view. If you do not use "Go", there is no right side. >> >> What do you mean by CLI? >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 9:01 PM, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: >> I'd like to have the old workspace as it is for quick commands and as a kind of CLI where I do not need all the noise of the right part of the playground. >> >> And the playground for what it is meant to do. >> >> These two things are *not* for the same use case. >> >> >> âPhil >> >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" >> > > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow"

Oct. 16, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] OSProcess in 3.0

by Thierry Goubier

Le 16/10/2014 01:30, David T. Lewis a Ã©crit : > > So in summary: The enhancement to PipeableOSProcess relies on an aio > event driven reader, and if the AIO plugin is missing, the fallback code > relies on polling, and is horribly inefficient. > > More to follow, and thank you again for identifying the problem. Thanks! > If you can convice your VM vendor to include AioPlugin in your VM, that > would be helpful also ;-) Well, now that 4.5.12/4.6.9 is the official OSProcess stable, people are starting to notice that the AioPlugin may be usefull :P Thierry

Oct. 16, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground and its current usability in Pharo4.0 Latest update: #40307

by Torsten Bergmann

Tudor wrote: >Indeed. This was a discussion I wanted to spawn as well. I would prefer to change the name from Workspace to Playground in the World Menu. The reason is >that the Playground is such a distinct departure from the Workspace that it deserves a different name. I do not think it is a departure from the Workspace concept. Therefore I would keep "Workspace" for the menu item name and the window name. It would be enough if the initial tab is called "Playground" because one can play in the code pane (or do serious stuff). This way we would keep up with a known concept (also from other IDE's), it meets what people would expect and no books would have to be rewritten ;) BTW: Squeak had a goodie with something similar back in the days (cant remember the name). It was neat as one could assemble different objects and different object representations in one navigateable window. >>I would suggest to use the well known order "Cut","Copy","Paste". >Thanks for noticing. This will be fixed. Thanks! Â Â >Indeed, we had a debate about the name. I proposed the solution 3b you mention, but it was decided >that it would be too confusing to change the Cmd+i action at this time, and we chose "Go" to be >the name of the action that is mapped on Cmd+g. Here we agree - I would have choosen 3b as well. Decided by whom? Did I miss the discussion in the list or was it offlist? >>...icons...Â >This is a known issue and we will look at it soon. Â Sounds good. Â >At the moment, GT is an external project and the contributions should happen directly in its repository. Then please add me to the repo. Still the process is unclear - will I still provide a slice with issue number or will I change the config. It is not very lucky that this process was started (without discussion/announcement/description first and only for specific packages). Thx T.

Oct. 16, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground and its current usability in Pharo4.0 Latest update: #40307

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 16 Oct 2014, at 22:34, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 10:23 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> wrote: > I too miss the old workspace sometimes. > Mostly for "printIt". > Playgrounds printIt-popup is good, but sometimes I want exactly that: "print it". > On "Esc", the popup closes , but the code is still selected. Most of the time I > want to go on typing, but first I have to unselect the code. > > Suggestions: > on "Esc" close the popup and unselect the current selection > > Good point. +1 > on "Enter" insert the printIt-result. > > Indeed, this is something I thought of, too. However, I am not convinced that the frequency of needing to insert the result of "print it" warrants a shortcut that can be so easily use (i.e., Enter can be used also for adding a line). Right now, if you want to insert, you do Cmd+c, Esc, Cmd+v. +1 I also don't think 'Print It' is not that common, and if you use it you want the output to be in a comment anyway so the syntax highlighting doesn't make everything red. I also wanted to add that the whole idea of GT-Tools is to do a lot and even more powerful things based on a few simple concepts. We are currently making lots of small usability changes, which is all good, but we have to guard the simplicity.

Oct. 16, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Playground and its current usability in Pharo4.0 Latest update: #40307

by Tudor Girba

I do not quite understand. Could you elaborate such a case? (I am not being thick headed, I just did not encounter this case, so I would like to know more about it) Doru On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 10:34 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: > Indeed, the print it can surely be improved. > Since I am using GTInspector, I often open a transcript and do "myObject > logCrâ > I usually do this to have a string representation, useful to insert in > source code. > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > On Oct 16, 2014, at 5:23 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> wrote: > > I too miss the old workspace sometimes. > Mostly for "printIt". > Playgrounds printIt-popup is good, but sometimes I want exactly that: > "print it". > On "Esc", the popup closes , but the code is still selected. Most of the > time I > want to go on typing, but first I have to unselect the code. > > Suggestions: > on "Esc" close the popup and unselect the current selection > on "Enter" insert the printIt-result. > > > > > > > > 2014-10-16 21:36 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: > >> Hi, >> >> I do not quite understand this point of view. If you do not use "Go", >> there is no right side. >> >> What do you mean by CLI? >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 9:01 PM, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> >> wrote: >> >>> I'd like to have the old workspace as it is for quick commands and as a >>> kind of CLI where I do not need all the noise of the right part of the >>> playground. >>> >>> And the playground for what it is meant to do. >>> >>> These two things are *not* for the same use case. >>> >>> >>> âPhil >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" >> > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Oct. 16, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoNOS

by Torsten Bergmann

Yes, I tried in VirtualBox. Same issues here: used OSProcess to query for the DHCP given IP address and noticed that AioPlugin is not available. I like that it is a naked Pharo 3.0 image. So I would not preload the command shell - one can easily provide a config in the config browser for additional things or load an own config via script/network. So one could adopt to its own needs with a simple additional loading (like switching to themes, logo, ...). And yes: keyboard layout switching is required. Really nice! Can the ISO image building get automated so we can have a CI script that builds an ISO for Pharo 3.0, current 4.0 and others ... Â Thx T.Â Gesendet:Â Donnerstag, 16. Oktober 2014 um 22:07 Uhr Von:Â "phil(a)highoctane.be" <phil(a)highoctane.be> An:Â "Pharo Development List" <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> Betreff:Â Re: [Pharo-dev] PharoNOS Downloaded the iso and started a VM. Â Works well. Â What would be nice: Â - a PharoVM with AioPlugin so that CommandShell works nicer. - a preloaded CommandShell - a way to configure the keyboard to another layout Â and... a Dark/DawnTheme and a wicked cool logo for the background! Â Configurations are loading without trouble. Â Congratulations on that sweet idea and materialization. Â PhilÂ On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 9:30 PM, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote:Hi, I just found http://pillarhub.pharocloud.com/hub/mikefilonov/pharonos[http://pillarhub.p… Mike: can you comment a little bit on it here on the pharo lists? Thx T. Â

Oct. 16, 2014