- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] ProtoObject/Proxies

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 2:20 AM, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I've been hit by a few side effects of using proxies (GLORP ones), > because some tools like the Debugger and/or inspectors expect some > objects to respond to methods not defined in ProtoObject. > > I discovered this by accident because looking at the stack in the > xterm console I saw a recursion triggered by a halt in > UnitOfWork>>#register: > Such halt caused errors that needed to be printed, and because it was > trigger in the context of a Proxy, boom, infinite recursion. > > Why such methods are not implemented in ProtoObject, or at least with > a "basic" version of it. > Is this by design? Methods like #shouldBePrintedAsLiteral or > #isSelfEvaluating (don't know what it means), along others like > #printStringLimitedTo... etc. > > I remember Steph said a better support for Proxies was in the was > roadmap, how far is that? What can be done to speed this up? > Debugging a proxy object (even one that doesn't use #become:) is really > tricky. > > If you look at the implementation of Glorp's Proxy>>#class it seems it > should answer the class of the proxied object (if materialized), but > all that is commented out returning the receiver class, it is > returning Proxy. If you uncomment that weird things happen. I'll come > back to this later, once I have time to reproduce it. > > At some point, #class was optimized by compiler/vm...simply the source code sending #class would end up with a special bytecode that then the VM would execute. Therefore...the method is never executed...you can even delete ProtoObject implementation of #class and it will work hehehe. Anyway...at some point in Pharo, that was changed and #class was not a special bytecode anymore. THERE you could start interpceting #class. For my proxies....(I was using them before Pharo changed) I simply override the compiler to not optimize #class. Then my proxies would answer the class of the target. Cheers, > Please don't forget not everything inherits from Object :) > > Esteban A. Maringolo > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Oct. 22, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] ProtoObject/Proxies

by Esteban A. Maringolo

2014-10-22 10:33 GMT-03:00 Santiago Bragagnolo <santiagobragagnolo(a)gmail.com>: > We are using Ghost in TaskIT, and it was straight forward. I never had any > issue :) Is good to know. Maybe I could replace Glorp Proxies based on #doesNotUnderstand: by Ghost proxies based on interceptors and handlers. Regards! Esteban A. Maringolo

Oct. 22, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] ProtoObject/Proxies

by Santiago Bragagnolo

We are using Ghost in TaskIT, and it was straight forward. I never had any issue :) 2014-10-22 14:53 GMT+02:00 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com>: > Hi Esteban, > > You may want to check some proxy implementations I did. You can check > Ghost proxies in my PhD thesis: http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/archives/phd/ > PhD-2012-Martinez-Peck.pdf and here: > https://hal.inria.fr/hal-00877757/PDF/main.pdf > > One of the things I did was to be able to enable (could even be done > dynamically) debugging capabilities to proxies..that is...proxies would > understand theirself all necessary methods for > inspecting/debugging/printing/exploring them without actually intercepting > the message. You can read about that in the above links. As a quick > prototype.... you way want to create a subclass of ProtoObject or directly > add those messages to the Glorp proxy. > > Also...AFAIK, Camille Teruel was doing some stuff with Ghost Proxies, so > he might have the latest version available somewhere. In anycase, my > original code was in: http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Ghost but saw there is > also: http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~CAR/Ghost/ which may be newer. > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 2:20 AM, Esteban A. Maringolo < > emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> I've been hit by a few side effects of using proxies (GLORP ones), >> because some tools like the Debugger and/or inspectors expect some >> objects to respond to methods not defined in ProtoObject. >> >> I discovered this by accident because looking at the stack in the >> xterm console I saw a recursion triggered by a halt in >> UnitOfWork>>#register: >> Such halt caused errors that needed to be printed, and because it was >> trigger in the context of a Proxy, boom, infinite recursion. >> >> Why such methods are not implemented in ProtoObject, or at least with >> a "basic" version of it. >> Is this by design? Methods like #shouldBePrintedAsLiteral or >> #isSelfEvaluating (don't know what it means), along others like >> #printStringLimitedTo... etc. >> >> I remember Steph said a better support for Proxies was in the was >> roadmap, how far is that? What can be done to speed this up? >> Debugging a proxy object (even one that doesn't use #become:) is really >> tricky. >> >> If you look at the implementation of Glorp's Proxy>>#class it seems it >> should answer the class of the proxied object (if materialized), but >> all that is commented out returning the receiver class, it is >> returning Proxy. If you uncomment that weird things happen. I'll come >> back to this later, once I have time to reproduce it. >> >> Please don't forget not everything inherits from Object :) >> >> Esteban A. Maringolo >> >> > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >

Oct. 22, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] ProtoObject/Proxies

by Luc Fabresse

2014-10-22 15:18 GMT+02:00 Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com>: > Hi Mariano, > > 2014-10-22 9:53 GMT-03:00 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com>: > > Hi Esteban, > > > > You may want to check some proxy implementations I did. You can check > Ghost > > proxies in my PhD thesis: > > http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/archives/phd/PhD-2012-Martinez-Peck.pdf and > > here: https://hal.inria.fr/hal-00877757/PDF/main.pdf > > > I'll take a look into them, thank you. > > > > One of the things I did was to be able to enable (could even be done > > dynamically) debugging capabilities to proxies..that is...proxies would > > understand theirself all necessary methods for > > inspecting/debugging/printing/exploring them without actually > intercepting > > the message. You can read about that in the above links. As a quick > > prototype.... you way want to create a subclass of ProtoObject or > directly > > add those messages to the Glorp proxy. > > That's exactly what I did, and you can see added methods to > AbstractProxy (Glorp) in the latest commits of Glorp at SmalltalkHub. > > However, my mail had two intentions, one is a rant about why some > tools depend on methods defined only in Object but not in ProtoObject > (and hence, most Proxies). > The other intention was to learn about the newcoming Proxies > implementation, about which you helpfully provided two documents to > read about. > > > Also...AFAIK, Camille Teruel was doing some stuff with Ghost Proxies, so > he > > might have the latest version available somewhere. In anycase, my > original > > code was in: http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Ghost but saw there is also: > > http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~CAR/Ghost/ which may be newer. > > So this is the implementation of the previously described thesis? > yes and the journal paper too. Luc > > Thank you! > > > Esteban A. Maringolo > >

Oct. 22, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] ProtoObject/Proxies

by Esteban A. Maringolo

Hi Mariano, 2014-10-22 9:53 GMT-03:00 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com>: > Hi Esteban, > > You may want to check some proxy implementations I did. You can check Ghost > proxies in my PhD thesis: > http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/archives/phd/PhD-2012-Martinez-Peck.pdf and > here: https://hal.inria.fr/hal-00877757/PDF/main.pdf I'll take a look into them, thank you. > One of the things I did was to be able to enable (could even be done > dynamically) debugging capabilities to proxies..that is...proxies would > understand theirself all necessary methods for > inspecting/debugging/printing/exploring them without actually intercepting > the message. You can read about that in the above links. As a quick > prototype.... you way want to create a subclass of ProtoObject or directly > add those messages to the Glorp proxy. That's exactly what I did, and you can see added methods to AbstractProxy (Glorp) in the latest commits of Glorp at SmalltalkHub. However, my mail had two intentions, one is a rant about why some tools depend on methods defined only in Object but not in ProtoObject (and hence, most Proxies). The other intention was to learn about the newcoming Proxies implementation, about which you helpfully provided two documents to read about. > Also...AFAIK, Camille Teruel was doing some stuff with Ghost Proxies, so he > might have the latest version available somewhere. In anycase, my original > code was in: http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Ghost but saw there is also: > http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~CAR/Ghost/ which may be newer. So this is the implementation of the previously described thesis? Thank you! Esteban A. Maringolo

Oct. 22, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] ProtoObject/Proxies

by Luc Fabresse

2014-10-22 14:53 GMT+02:00 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com>: > Hi Esteban, > > You may want to check some proxy implementations I did. You can check > Ghost proxies in my PhD thesis: http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/archives/phd/ > PhD-2012-Martinez-Peck.pdf and here: > https://hal.inria.fr/hal-00877757/PDF/main.pdf > > One of the things I did was to be able to enable (could even be done > dynamically) debugging capabilities to proxies..that is...proxies would > understand theirself all necessary methods for > inspecting/debugging/printing/exploring them without actually intercepting > the message. You can read about that in the above links. As a quick > prototype.... you way want to create a subclass of ProtoObject or directly > add those messages to the Glorp proxy. > > Also...AFAIK, Camille Teruel was doing some stuff with Ghost Proxies, so > he might have the latest version available somewhere. In anycase, my > original code was in: http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Ghost but saw there is > also: http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~CAR/Ghost/ which may be newer. > Yes I migrated the code to Sthub. Perhaps I added very few things. I do not remember now. In any case, please use that one. Thx Mariano for taking time to answer ;-) Cheers, Luc > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 2:20 AM, Esteban A. Maringolo < > emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> I've been hit by a few side effects of using proxies (GLORP ones), >> because some tools like the Debugger and/or inspectors expect some >> objects to respond to methods not defined in ProtoObject. >> >> I discovered this by accident because looking at the stack in the >> xterm console I saw a recursion triggered by a halt in >> UnitOfWork>>#register: >> Such halt caused errors that needed to be printed, and because it was >> trigger in the context of a Proxy, boom, infinite recursion. >> >> Why such methods are not implemented in ProtoObject, or at least with >> a "basic" version of it. >> Is this by design? Methods like #shouldBePrintedAsLiteral or >> #isSelfEvaluating (don't know what it means), along others like >> #printStringLimitedTo... etc. >> >> I remember Steph said a better support for Proxies was in the was >> roadmap, how far is that? What can be done to speed this up? >> Debugging a proxy object (even one that doesn't use #become:) is really >> tricky. >> >> If you look at the implementation of Glorp's Proxy>>#class it seems it >> should answer the class of the proxied object (if materialized), but >> all that is commented out returning the receiver class, it is >> returning Proxy. If you uncomment that weird things happen. I'll come >> back to this later, once I have time to reproduce it. >> >> Please don't forget not everything inherits from Object :) >> >> Esteban A. Maringolo >> >> > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >

Oct. 22, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] ProtoObject/Proxies

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Hi Esteban, You may want to check some proxy implementations I did. You can check Ghost proxies in my PhD thesis: http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/archives/phd/PhD -2012-Martinez-Peck.pdf and here: https://hal.inria.fr/hal-00877757/PDF/main.pdf One of the things I did was to be able to enable (could even be done dynamically) debugging capabilities to proxies..that is...proxies would understand theirself all necessary methods for inspecting/debugging/printing/exploring them without actually intercepting the message. You can read about that in the above links. As a quick prototype.... you way want to create a subclass of ProtoObject or directly add those messages to the Glorp proxy. Also...AFAIK, Camille Teruel was doing some stuff with Ghost Proxies, so he might have the latest version available somewhere. In anycase, my original code was in: http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Ghost but saw there is also: http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~CAR/Ghost/ which may be newer. Cheers, On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 2:20 AM, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I've been hit by a few side effects of using proxies (GLORP ones), > because some tools like the Debugger and/or inspectors expect some > objects to respond to methods not defined in ProtoObject. > > I discovered this by accident because looking at the stack in the > xterm console I saw a recursion triggered by a halt in > UnitOfWork>>#register: > Such halt caused errors that needed to be printed, and because it was > trigger in the context of a Proxy, boom, infinite recursion. > > Why such methods are not implemented in ProtoObject, or at least with > a "basic" version of it. > Is this by design? Methods like #shouldBePrintedAsLiteral or > #isSelfEvaluating (don't know what it means), along others like > #printStringLimitedTo... etc. > > I remember Steph said a better support for Proxies was in the was > roadmap, how far is that? What can be done to speed this up? > Debugging a proxy object (even one that doesn't use #become:) is really > tricky. > > If you look at the implementation of Glorp's Proxy>>#class it seems it > should answer the class of the proxied object (if materialized), but > all that is commented out returning the receiver class, it is > returning Proxy. If you uncomment that weird things happen. I'll come > back to this later, once I have time to reproduce it. > > Please don't forget not everything inherits from Object :) > > Esteban A. Maringolo > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Oct. 22, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Smalltalk running on Dart VM?

by kilon alios

> > > Yes, people love new toys. Especially when they come from a company with > colors ;) > > "is climbing in popularity." is true for others as well - next question on > this list will be > if we should port and run on Swift from Apple, ... > I have that itch to disagree with you and point you to the flaws of your argument but unfortunately you are very much correct. My experience with programming languages is that people don't give up their comfort zone so easily. I have seen this happening with Jython , its basically python run on JVM , can directly use Java libraries out of the box and it can even use cpython libraries. Yet it seems its used more by people that work anyway on the JVM than cpython people. Actually I dont think it would be an exaggeration to say that jython is even more unpopular than pharo right now. Dart is even in worst position because its a new language and I dont think Google will replace Java on Android or Javascript on the browser with Dart any time soon. On the other hand I disagree that Swift is in a similar case because Apple has way more control over its market because it makes both the software and the hardware and , and this is a big factor, Swift IS a replacement to Objective C. Also Swift had a very positive reception from developers which another factor into this equation. I dont see Dart generating as much noise. Also Apple is 100% behind Swift, the moment Yosemite came out the first update to Swift (XCODE) was for iOS and now a new update came out for MacOSX as well. I dont think its a bad thing to port smalltalk to Dart , I do think it will be advantageous for both smalltalk and dart but dont expect that you will be getting thousands of users any time soon. I am in a similar boat of giving access to python libraries to pharo user with my latest project, again my expectations are very low on how many people will use this and I don't blame them. Sounds great in theory in practice you run into all sort of technical problems.

Oct. 22, 2014

[pharo-project/pharo-core] 66e5ed: 40319

by GitHub

Branch: refs/heads/4.0 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core Commit: 66e5edb2b85fb05122b7162a3e4648447325ee0d https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core/commit/66e5edb2b85fb05122b7162a… Author: Jenkins Build Server <board(a)pharo-project.org> Date: 2014-10-22 (Wed, 22 Oct 2014) Changed paths: A KernelTests.package/BlockClosureTest.class/instance/tests - astmapping/testSourceNodeOptimized.st A OpalCompiler-Core.package/IRSequence.class/instance/inspector/sourceNode.st M OpalCompiler-Core.package/extension/BlockClosure/instance/sourceNode.st A OpalTools.package/extension/IRInstruction/instance/gtInspectorTreeIn_.st A OpalTools.package/extension/IRSequence/instance/gtInspectorTreeIn_.st A OpalTools.package/extension/SymbolicBytecode/instance/gtInspectorTreeIn_.st A ScriptLoader40.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - scripts/script319.st A ScriptLoader40.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - updates/update40319.st M ScriptLoader40.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/public/commentForCurrentUpdate.st Log Message: ----------- 40319 14284 fix #sourceNode for Blocks https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14284 14282 add SourceNode tab for IRInstruction and SymbolicBytecode https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14282 http://files.pharo.org/image/40/40319.zip

Oct. 22, 2014

[pharo-project/pharo-core]

by GitHub

Branch: refs/tags/40319 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core

Oct. 22, 2014