- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo is mine

by Thierry Goubier

Le 24/11/2014 21:10, kilon alios a Ã©crit : > Well I would love to look at your code because I was imagining doing > something similar , no reason to reinvent the wheel, of course assuming > you dont mind sharing your code. Especially uniting the tools under one > roof and extending the shortcuts is a big win for me. Well, the code is on github (http://github.com/ThierryGoubier/AltBrowser.git) Some of the stuff I'm fairly proud of. It has a very simple command framework, where each command can set a shortcut / a menu entry / be active or non active, be selection dependent or not. It overrides the default shortcuts (including the text ones), so you can reroute the keyboard in almost any way you like. Adding a new command is, what, 5 one liners methods (and you have access to smart suggestions of course, since it's where it started). It also has all the code for tracking code changes, well, the necessary IDE stuff ;) It also has some fairly good drag and drop code. > Its kinda funny I have considered several times to quit Pharo to go back > to coding with python. More libraries , many great libraries, tons of > documentation, even real time tutorials like codeacademy etc etc . Then > I ask "sound great what IDE should I use that easy to modify on the fly > and has a big enough community to help out that are friendly to > newcomers..... you know... Pharo is not that bad :D " > > The truth is that for dynamic language the IDEs are around the same size > in term on people working on it as is Pharo , pyDev for example which is > the eclipse plugin for python support has 1 person and few other > commiters, emacs python is pretty much abandonware and some other IDEs > are again small teams, talking about open source. And I dont even go in > the subject how easy it is to modify those IDEs. Pharo is the first IDE > / enviroment that I find it enjoyable to hack. > > I totally agree that creating code that fits like a glove for your needs > is ideal. But then open source usually starts like this, someone needed > a tool, another tool existed but it did not get the job done the way the > author wanted , or the code was too hard to extend , so he sit downs and > makes some stuff and then says "lets open source it some people may find > it useful as much as I do. I agree with that. You offer as open source, sometimes all of it, sometimes pieces of it (or ideas, or a motivation), sometimes none... But when it also amount to making it cool for yourself, then its really great. > So yes I do complain for time to time about Pharo but only because I > really love Pharo , I think its awesome and I love to see what people do > with it because I find that many ideas I have about the ideal IDE are > not as special as I think and many people end up sharing the same ideas > with me. This only makes me happier even more when I find a new idea I > could have never figure out by myself : ) Then enjoy yourself :) Thierry > On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 9:44 PM, Thierry Goubier > <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Le 24/11/2014 19:51, kilon alios a Ã©crit : > > >> I'm certainly a good example of that. My Pharo is mine! > (and I have > an IDE I like which is truly > > mine :P) > > > And I can only encourage you to do the same ;) > > > what you mean ? you have customised pharo for your needs ? care > to share > , I am very interested :) > > > Well, yes, I did another system browser because I wanted to try a > few things. And it kind of grow on you when you do that, so now its > mine :) especially if, like me, you're not too successfull in > promoting it ;). > > It has grown to be a very significant part of what I use, because it > replace many parts of the Pharo GUI now: the finder, Nautilus, the > message/method list. And I've learned a lot doing so, like how to be > reasonable: I need a working system, not one which will be > extraordinary 10 years down the road. > > I need something a guy can maintain and keep in sync with Pharo > easily: done, it's only 4k lines (Nautilus is > 12k lines)... As it > is a just for me, it's a no compromise thing: just what suits me and > my workflow in Pharo and outside Pharo. > > I would like to have emacs-shortcuts for all functions? Easy mate, > could do! I want different menus? Check! I want a state of the art > keyboard selection in a tree? Check! I want that browsers windows > opens faster? Check! I want to have windows smaller to better fit my > small screen? Check! I want to keep the same UI when searching / > drilling down? Check! I want to be happy with the GUI I use? Check! > > All this of course is building on Pharo strengths: an easy, open > platform where building a new IDE is fairly simple (not that well > documented, however). But there is nowhere else you could imagine > doing that, apart from the Pharo and Smalltalk communities :) > > Thierry > > > > > > > >

Nov. 24, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo is mine

by kilon alios

Well I would love to look at your code because I was imagining doing something similar , no reason to reinvent the wheel, of course assuming you dont mind sharing your code. Especially uniting the tools under one roof and extending the shortcuts is a big win for me. Its kinda funny I have considered several times to quit Pharo to go back to coding with python. More libraries , many great libraries, tons of documentation, even real time tutorials like codeacademy etc etc . Then I ask "sound great what IDE should I use that easy to modify on the fly and has a big enough community to help out that are friendly to newcomers..... you know... Pharo is not that bad :D " The truth is that for dynamic language the IDEs are around the same size in term on people working on it as is Pharo , pyDev for example which is the eclipse plugin for python support has 1 person and few other commiters, emacs python is pretty much abandonware and some other IDEs are again small teams, talking about open source. And I dont even go in the subject how easy it is to modify those IDEs. Pharo is the first IDE / enviroment that I find it enjoyable to hack. I totally agree that creating code that fits like a glove for your needs is ideal. But then open source usually starts like this, someone needed a tool, another tool existed but it did not get the job done the way the author wanted , or the code was too hard to extend , so he sit downs and makes some stuff and then says "lets open source it some people may find it useful as much as I do. So yes I do complain for time to time about Pharo but only because I really love Pharo , I think its awesome and I love to see what people do with it because I find that many ideas I have about the ideal IDE are not as special as I think and many people end up sharing the same ideas with me. This only makes me happier even more when I find a new idea I could have never figure out by myself : ) On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 9:44 PM, Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Le 24/11/2014 19:51, kilon alios a Ã©crit : > > >> I'm certainly a good example of that. My Pharo is mine! (and I have >> an IDE I like which is truly >> >>> mine :P) >>>> >>> >> And I can only encourage you to do the same ;) >>>> >>> >> what you mean ? you have customised pharo for your needs ? care to share >> , I am very interested :) >> > > Well, yes, I did another system browser because I wanted to try a few > things. And it kind of grow on you when you do that, so now its mine :) > especially if, like me, you're not too successfull in promoting it ;). > > It has grown to be a very significant part of what I use, because it > replace many parts of the Pharo GUI now: the finder, Nautilus, the > message/method list. And I've learned a lot doing so, like how to be > reasonable: I need a working system, not one which will be extraordinary 10 > years down the road. > > I need something a guy can maintain and keep in sync with Pharo easily: > done, it's only 4k lines (Nautilus is > 12k lines)... As it is a just for > me, it's a no compromise thing: just what suits me and my workflow in Pharo > and outside Pharo. > > I would like to have emacs-shortcuts for all functions? Easy mate, could > do! I want different menus? Check! I want a state of the art keyboard > selection in a tree? Check! I want that browsers windows opens faster? > Check! I want to have windows smaller to better fit my small screen? Check! > I want to keep the same UI when searching / drilling down? Check! I want to > be happy with the GUI I use? Check! > > All this of course is building on Pharo strengths: an easy, open platform > where building a new IDE is fairly simple (not that well documented, > however). But there is nowhere else you could imagine doing that, apart > from the Pharo and Smalltalk communities :) > > Thierry > > > > > > > >

Nov. 24, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo is mine

by Thierry Goubier

Le 24/11/2014 19:51, kilon alios a Ã©crit : > >> I'm certainly a good example of that. My Pharo is mine! (and I have > an IDE I like which is truly >>> mine :P) > >>> And I can only encourage you to do the same ;) > > what you mean ? you have customised pharo for your needs ? care to share > , I am very interested :) Well, yes, I did another system browser because I wanted to try a few things. And it kind of grow on you when you do that, so now its mine :) especially if, like me, you're not too successfull in promoting it ;). It has grown to be a very significant part of what I use, because it replace many parts of the Pharo GUI now: the finder, Nautilus, the message/method list. And I've learned a lot doing so, like how to be reasonable: I need a working system, not one which will be extraordinary 10 years down the road. I need something a guy can maintain and keep in sync with Pharo easily: done, it's only 4k lines (Nautilus is > 12k lines)... As it is a just for me, it's a no compromise thing: just what suits me and my workflow in Pharo and outside Pharo. I would like to have emacs-shortcuts for all functions? Easy mate, could do! I want different menus? Check! I want a state of the art keyboard selection in a tree? Check! I want that browsers windows opens faster? Check! I want to have windows smaller to better fit my small screen? Check! I want to keep the same UI when searching / drilling down? Check! I want to be happy with the GUI I use? Check! All this of course is building on Pharo strengths: an easy, open platform where building a new IDE is fairly simple (not that well documented, however). But there is nowhere else you could imagine doing that, apart from the Pharo and Smalltalk communities :) Thierry

Nov. 24, 2014

NativeBoost

by Torsten Bergmann

Hi, were is NB currently maintained? Only within the image as it is integrated or still with an external config and on STHub? The reason why I ask: when I load the latest NB-Core package from STHub it looks like this one is outdated and back from Pharo3 day (trying to load it gives problems from changes in Pharo 4). So it looks like NB was originally developed external using STHub, then integrated into standard image and now it is only internally in-image managed. OK. But the future goal is as far as I understood to manage more and more packages using external configs again. What is the status and future plan for NB? Will the repo get synchronized? Or will it stay internal only? Thx T.

Nov. 24, 2014

Pharo is mine

by kilon alios

>> I'm certainly a good example of that. My Pharo is mine! (and I have an IDE I like which is truly >> mine :P) >> And I can only encourage you to do the same ;) what you mean ? you have customised pharo for your needs ? care to share , I am very interested :)

Nov. 24, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing MC repository url display

by Thierry Goubier

Le 24/11/2014 17:24, kilon alios a Ã©crit : > >> yes you are right, but also you are digressing :) > >> my question is simple: do you think this small change can help or is > useless? > > is it not enough that I said " I think it makes sense to display only > the name of the repository instead of its web location " ? > > My philosophy on GUI design is to keep it as simple as possible (noob > friendly )and make as customisable as possible (experienced user friendly). > > So in this case a section displaying paths can be made hidden by default > and the user will be able to make it unhidden. This way none will > complain or have a good reason to complain about the change and should > not be difficult to implement. Honestly, I don't see the point (and I'm an expert). A shortened (but complete) description is both good for the novice and the expert, it makes the code simpler, it makes the GUI aesthetically pleasing, it fasten the workflow of both novice and expert alike, and it helps the novice to become an expert. > I don't like the approach of monticello of "let put everything in a > single GUI " , its near impossible to understand it without > documentation and frankly its not that complex to justify this difficulty. I'd say that the main problem of Monticello is on its left side, not on the right... > >> For laptops monitors (i.e. the 1366x768 and 1440x900 that are fairly > common), some are too large: Nautilus, >>> GTPlayground. > > >> (But for GTPlayground, it may be on purpose :)) > > I happen to have such a laptop the 2010 macbook air. Lets be sincere > most coders have normal sided monitors (20''+ for desktop , 15''+ > laptop) and a FULL HD resolution is the standard nowdays. I have an air > but my main work is with retina 27'' 2013 imac. I use air when I am in > the move or just in the bed before going to sleep hacking pharo. I use that kind of setup (11.6" and 24"), but, still, in most laptops you have to consider that they are stuck at 1366x768 (what is the market share of retina macbooks?). > > I know coders that also love working with 2 monitors. I do, but they are hard to carry in a plane or in a train :P > Its impossible to create a design that fits all unless the gui is highly > dynamic like what modern websites are doing nowdays. Well, we had the techno in GUI more than 20 years ago, but the web is only now reinventing that (and badly at that). > So there is definetly a lot of room for improvement on GUI design for > Pharo and small size monitors is not the main reason to change the > design. A good excuse would be as Stef puts it most of time "we dont > have the people or the money to do this in the near future". > But even for me with retina display and 27'' the gui design is a big > issues because I end up opening tons of pharo windows. And that's why I'd say if you make it ok to deal with multiple windows on a 11"6 screen, then going to a 27" becomes pure bliss. > I hope I do my small part to help the overall gui experience with pharo > and maybe others will join too to make "pharo is yours" reality. I'm certainly a good example of that. My Pharo is mine! (and I have an IDE I like which is truly mine :P) And I can only encourage you to do the same ;) Thierry

Nov. 24, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] How to import an icon inside Pharo

by Esteban Lorenzano

nononoâ¦. Iâm not the guy behind that code! I just made some adapts to make it work (probably in the time of FileSystem migration and Eclipse icon set) but I do not take responsibility of itâ¦ in the good and (specially) in the bad :) ahhâ¦ and I also move them to instance side (all logic of those classes were in class side, making the idea of âexchangeâ a bitâ¦ difficult) > On 24 Nov 2014, at 17:37, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > ok I see also you are the guy behind the code. So now I know who to blame. > > By looking at the code it looks like it requires the size of the icon to be 64x64 and createIconMethodsFromFile reads a png file containing the icon and uses base64ContentsofFileNamed to create the string that contains the contents of the png icon file. > > Looks easy enough, clean code too. Apart from base64ContentsOfFileNamed: comment " "Private - convenient method"" :D at least you bother to comment. > > I dont understand this comment "self exportAllIconsAsGif" in the same name method, are the comments automatically generated this comments looks strange. that might be a remaining of older methods :/ Esteban > > On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 4:11 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>> wrote: > look in > > ThemeIcons around âprivate - utilitiesâ protocol. > > Esteban > > > On 24 Nov 2014, at 14:55, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com <mailto:kilon.alios@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > Hey guys any idea how to import a icon inside pharo and how to use it ? I have seen that pharo uses a sort of string representation of the icon image . Anyone has experience with this ? > > >

Nov. 24, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] How to import an icon inside Pharo

by kilon alios

ok I see also you are the guy behind the code. So now I know who to blame. By looking at the code it looks like it requires the size of the icon to be 64x64 and createIconMethodsFromFile reads a png file containing the icon and uses base64ContentsofFileNamed to create the string that contains the contents of the png icon file. Looks easy enough, clean code too. Apart from base64ContentsOfFileNamed: comment " "Private - convenient method"" :D at least you bother to comment. I dont understand this comment "self exportAllIconsAsGif" in the same name method, are the comments automatically generated this comments looks strange. On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 4:11 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > look in > > ThemeIcons around âprivate - utilitiesâ protocol. > > Esteban > > > On 24 Nov 2014, at 14:55, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Hey guys any idea how to import a icon inside pharo and how to use it ? > I have seen that pharo uses a sort of string representation of the icon > image . Anyone has experience with this ? > > >

Nov. 24, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing MC repository url display

by kilon alios

>> yes you are right, but also you are digressing :) >> my question is simple: do you think this small change can help or is useless? is it not enough that I said " I think it makes sense to display only the name of the repository instead of its web location " ? My philosophy on GUI design is to keep it as simple as possible (noob friendly )and make as customisable as possible (experienced user friendly). So in this case a section displaying paths can be made hidden by default and the user will be able to make it unhidden. This way none will complain or have a good reason to complain about the change and should not be difficult to implement. I don't like the approach of monticello of "let put everything in a single GUI " , its near impossible to understand it without documentation and frankly its not that complex to justify this difficulty. >> For laptops monitors (i.e. the 1366x768 and 1440x900 that are fairly common), some are too large: Nautilus, >> GTPlayground. >> (But for GTPlayground, it may be on purpose :)) I happen to have such a laptop the 2010 macbook air. Lets be sincere most coders have normal sided monitors (20''+ for desktop , 15''+ laptop) and a FULL HD resolution is the standard nowdays. I have an air but my main work is with retina 27'' 2013 imac. I use air when I am in the move or just in the bed before going to sleep hacking pharo. I know coders that also love working with 2 monitors. Its impossible to create a design that fits all unless the gui is highly dynamic like what modern websites are doing nowdays. So there is definetly a lot of room for improvement on GUI design for Pharo and small size monitors is not the main reason to change the design. A good excuse would be as Stef puts it most of time "we dont have the people or the money to do this in the near future". But even for me with retina display and 27'' the gui design is a big issues because I end up opening tons of pharo windows. I hope I do my small part to help the overall gui experience with pharo and maybe others will join too to make "pharo is yours" reality.

Nov. 24, 2014

[pharo-project/pharo-core] 27151e: 40384

by GitHub

Branch: refs/heads/4.0 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core Commit: 27151ed904db256d72e83d85722db500969b23b9 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core/commit/27151ed904db256d72e83d85… Author: Jenkins Build Server <board(a)pharo-project.org> Date: 2014-11-24 (Mon, 24 Nov 2014) Changed paths: A Kernel.package/SmallInteger.class/class/class initialization/initialize.st A Kernel.package/SmallInteger.class/class/class initialization/startUp_.st M Kernel.package/SmallInteger.class/class/constants/maxVal.st M Kernel.package/SmallInteger.class/class/constants/minVal.st A ScriptLoader40.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - scripts/script384.st A ScriptLoader40.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - updates/update40384.st M ScriptLoader40.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/public/commentForCurrentUpdate.st M System-Support.package/SmalltalkImage.class/class/initialization/initializeStartUpList.st Log Message: ----------- 40384 14506 Add class inst vars to hold SmallInteger class>>minVal and maxVal. https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/14506 http://files.pharo.org/image/40/40384.zip

Nov. 24, 2014