- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] SmalltalkHub bugs & hangs :-(

by kilon alios

"I prefer the Smalltalk environment." so do I "Sorry, if that would be true then Java or C# would be of extraordinary quality. Smalltalk has been there for more than 30 years and will probably another 30 years. Hypes come and go. Quantity for me seems more like the opposite of quality." True ? Smalltalk cannot even begin to compete with the tools and library support of these two behemoths programming languages. That does not mean Java is not ugly or that some of the complain people have with it are not valid and justified complains but still does not change the fact that because of the size of the community it has produced a lot more top quality libraries and tools than any programming language. The "quantity brings quality" is not just a computer world rule its pretty much the fabric of our cosmos that through failures and bad designs more elegant and beautiful , sophisticate designs emerge. Its something that has been happening for billions of years and I doubt will change any time soon. "Why shouldn't they be able to die? products that can be used by everybody. Alas for your work needs their operating systems get worse with every release. Windows XP and Snow Leopard are being seen as the best versions by some... Nothing lasts forever so you can be sure that Windows and Mac OSX will die some day." Win XP is the crappiest OS I ever used win 7 dances around it , its still old crappy windows but way way better. Yosemite has its share of issues but for me so far with the excepetion of problematic CUDAS drivers, had no issues at all with it. I use also UBUNTU 14.04 it offers better support for my system and works like a charm. I seriously dont see this "OS get worse thing". Will one day those OS die ? sure but I doubt I will be alive so there is no reason for me to worry about it. "That's also possible in capitalism: you can ask very high prices so most people and companies cannot (or will not) be able to affort it" I am not going to debate capitalism and its problems, of course I agree that huge companies care only about making money and not for the well being of the consumers. This is why I am here , this is why I support open source and this is why I support Pharo but I cant just turn zealot and refuse the usefulness and expertise of much commercial software out there. All I said is that if there is demand there is going to be supply. Everybody wants to make money and this is why when and if a software dies it gets replaced by something else often better alternative. "For me Smalltalk is a system and not a simple language with some arbitrary tools that can be replaced easily." Its not as hard as you may think to kinda emulate Smalltalk with other programming languages. Actually Pharo has some fierce competition out there as languages are more and more interested into live coding and creating an enviroment for the developer. Smalltalk still has the edge on this because it had an early start but if the example of Swift is any indication its definetly a lesson that languages have not any issue catching up with the Smalltalk world. The question is not if but when other languages come side by side with the abilities of Pharo how you keep pharo developers with pharo ? I think the only answer is by making sure Pharo remains fresh , modern and in sync with modern technology. Git is just a small part of the equation. On the other hand you need also , what Pharo already does to a great extend, innovation to bring new more developers. So I think the right balance is "give something new but also allow me to use my old familiar tools". I am very glad that people behind Pharo realise and materialse this balance. On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 9:46 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> My comment was not about discussing the pros and cons of closed versus >> open source software. My concerns are more about reliability. >> For me it's totally Ok to use git for versioning IF the tools are there. >> Squak and Pharo have decent versioning systems that suit their internal >> needs. There is room for improvements, that's for sure. >> For me Smalltalk is a system and not a simple language with some >> arbitrary tools that can be replaced easily. >> >> > The problem is whether the tools you choose for "commoditized" tasks (e.g. > SCM) limit the amount of manpower that could contribute to your open > source project. > > Forks and pull-requests are the way most open source projects fix bugs and > integrates enhancements. You can't do branching with current tooling (read: > Monticello) without suffering proportional to its complexity. > > No one said tools can be replaced easily, and that's the reason we still > use Monticello, some of us backed by old mcz files, others already using > some git behind it. > > Regards, > > > >

Dec. 2, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Fwd: [squeak-dev] IdentitySet>>collect:

by stepharo

What is the old behavior? In addition it would be good to have tests for such core library. Stef Le 1/12/14 11:44, Sven Van Caekenberghe a Ã©crit : > > >> Begin forwarded message: >> >> *From: *Bert Freudenberg <bert(a)freudenbergs.de >> <mailto:bert@freudenbergs.de>> >> *Subject: **Re: [squeak-dev] IdentitySet>>collect:* >> *Date: *1 Dec 2014 11:35:00 CET >> *To: *The general-purpose Squeak developers list >> <squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org >> <mailto:squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org>> >> *Reply-To: *The general-purpose Squeak developers list >> <squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org >> <mailto:squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org>> >> >> On 01.12.2014, at 07:35, Colin Putney <colin(a)wiresong.com >> <mailto:colin@wiresong.com>> wrote: >>> >>> On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 6:20 AM, Bert Freudenberg >>> <bert(a)freudenbergs.de <mailto:bert@freudenbergs.de>> wrote: >>> >>> How would you define âtypeâ here? Same class? >>> >>> >>> Yes, same class. It might be reasonable to answer instances of >>> analogous classes for weak collections, and expect the caller to use >>> #collect:as: if they want to retain weakness. >>> >>> Colin >> >> Thatâs certainly simple: >> >> âcollect: returns a collection of the same class as the receiver, >> except for weak collections, which answer non-weak equivalents. To >> return a collection of a different class, use collect:as:" >> >> - Bert - > > The above definition makes perfect sense to me. The default should be > simple and predictable, the more complex and special cases can be > handled by a more convoluted API. > > And we should change callers that depend on the old behaviour. > > Sven > > >

Dec. 2, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] GetOpt

by stepharo

Can you just tell me a bit more :) Le 2/12/14 08:45, phil(a)highoctane.be a Ã©crit : > I have made Ian Piumarta's GST GetOpt work in Pharo 3.0 > > See: > > http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~philippeback/GetOpt > <http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#%21/%7Ephilippeback/GetOpt> > > Nice tool even if we have some other support in CommandLineHandlers. > But for a quick parameters setting in your own CommandLineHandler, it > is fast to use and easy to debug. > > Phil > > >

Dec. 2, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Scale in 3.0 (kind of ANN)

by Luc Fabresse

Nice but I would like to know the exact status of Coral because it would be bad to restart from scratch. #Luc 2014-12-02 8:38 GMT+01:00 phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be>: > I've put Guille's Scale thing ( > http://guillep.github.io/blog/2014/01/23/replacing-bash-with-pharo/) into > Pharo 3.0 > > Details on how to use here: > > http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~philippeback/Scale > > Enjoy, > Phil > > > >

Dec. 2, 2014

default fonts changed in Pharo 4.0

by Esteban Lorenzano

Hi, We changed the default fonts in Pharo for the ones that are used normally in Moose. They are: Source Sans Pro and Source Code Pro. We needed to do it for several reasons: 1) TxText (the new text model) is cairo based, and cairo just can work with real fonts, so we need them as default (now we will be able to integrate TxText and start the replace of old editors) 2) Current fonts takes too much space and do not scales fine (at least that Iâve been told) So, well, thatâ¦ you will see âsomething differentâ when you download latest image version :) cheers, Esteban

Dec. 2, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] GetOpt

by Luc Fabresse

2014-12-02 9:37 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: > is cool. > I would like to explore the possibility to replace our command line parser > with getopt. You knowâ¦ is more compatible at the end :) > +1 ! Thx Phil, Luc > > thanks phil. > > Esteban > > On 02 Dec 2014, at 08:45, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > > I have made Ian Piumarta's GST GetOpt work in Pharo 3.0 > > See: > > http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~philippeback/GetOpt > > Nice tool even if we have some other support in CommandLineHandlers. > But for a quick parameters setting in your own CommandLineHandler, it is > fast to use and easy to debug. > > Phil > > > > >

Dec. 2, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] GetOpt

by Esteban Lorenzano

is cool. I would like to explore the possibility to replace our command line parser with getopt. You knowâ¦ is more compatible at the end :) thanks phil. Esteban > On 02 Dec 2014, at 08:45, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > > I have made Ian Piumarta's GST GetOpt work in Pharo 3.0 > > See: > > http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~philippeback/GetOpt <http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~philippeback/GetOpt> > > Nice tool even if we have some other support in CommandLineHandlers. > But for a quick parameters setting in your own CommandLineHandler, it is fast to use and easy to debug. > > Phil > > >

Dec. 2, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo - [ANN] SimpleDDS v1.0 released.

by Luc Fabresse

This is great. Fo info, DDS is a standardized MOM middleware heavily used in industrial apps with multiple concrete implementations such as http://www.prismtech.com/opensplice. And one of these implementations will be the next backend of ROS and therefore needed in PhaROS. Thx Santiago! #Luc 2014-12-02 0:44 GMT+01:00 Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com>: > Santiago Bragagnolo wrote: > >> Hi guys, i am just releasing SimpleDDS. >> In order to connect into ROS world i had to implement a DDS support >> (Publisher/subscriber). >> For achieving this i did MetaDDS, a library that defines basic objects, >> announcements, event related mechanisms and data encoding formats, and on >> top of it SimpleDDS, which is ROS based. >> >> SimpleDDS Has a package of examples highly commented for learning how to >> use it. >> The comments are also in the Github wiki, as wiki pages: >> >> https://github.com/sbragagnolo/SimpleDDS/wiki >> >> Gofer it smalltalkhubUser: 'sbragagnolo' project: 'SimpleDDS'; >> configuration; loadVersion: #stable >> >> >> Here some links about >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publish%E2%80%93subscribe_pattern >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Distribution_Service >> >> >> Thats it. Enjoy. >> >> Santiago >> >> >> >> >> > I haven't heard of DDS, but this seems really significant! > > From wikipedia... "DDS addresses the needs of applications like financial > trading, air-traffic control, smart grid management, and other Big data > applications. The standard is used in applications such as smartphone > operating systems,[1] transportation systems and vehicles,[2] > software-defined radio, and by healthcare providers." > > This could be a nice lead into these application domains. > > If this got to a sufficient level of features, maybe Santiago could even > be sponsored to attend an interoperability meeting? "DDS vendors > participated in _Interoperability demonstrations_ at the Object Management > Group (OMG) Spring Technical Meeting.[7] During the demo, each vendor > publishes and subscribes to each other's topics using a test suite called > the Shapes Demo." Such might be a good place to network and demo general > use of Pharo. > > cheers -ben > >

Dec. 2, 2014

GetOpt

by phil＠highoctane.be

I have made Ian Piumarta's GST GetOpt work in Pharo 3.0 See: http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~philippeback/GetOpt Nice tool even if we have some other support in CommandLineHandlers. But for a quick parameters setting in your own CommandLineHandler, it is fast to use and easy to debug. Phil

Dec. 2, 2014

Scale in 3.0 (kind of ANN)

by phil＠highoctane.be

I've put Guille's Scale thing ( http://guillep.github.io/blog/2014/01/23/replacing-bash-with-pharo/) into Pharo 3.0 Details on how to use here: http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~philippeback/Scale Enjoy, Phil

Dec. 2, 2014