- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[ann] gtspotter: a moldable interface for spotting objects

by Tudor Girba

Hi, Alex Syrel, Andrei Chis and I are happy to announce a new addition to the Glamorous Toolkit: GTSpotter, a novel interface for spotting objects. GTSpotter has two goals: - Provide a uniform yet moldable interface that can work on any object, and - Handle searching through arbitrary levels of object nesting. We think this will have a significant impact on the development workflow in Pharo. Here is a couple of screenshots: [image: Inline image 2] [image: Inline image 1] [image: Inline image 3] A trailer is available here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhSmjR3NOlU A detailed description is available here: http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/introducing-gtspotter It works already in Pharo 3.0 and can be played with by following the instructions from: http://gt.moosetechnology.org Please let us know what you think. Enjoy, The Glamorous Team

Dec. 7, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Monticello and Fuel

by Max Leske

> On 07 Dec 2014, at 04:19, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Max, Hi Eliot, > > On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 1:43 AM, Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com <mailto:maxleske@gmail.com>> wrote: > >> On 06 Dec 2014, at 04:37, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com <mailto:eliot.miranda@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 11:35 PM, Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com <mailto:maxleske@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> > On 05 Dec 2014, at 08:02, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name <mailto:norbert@hartl.name>> wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> Am 04.12.2014 um 23:31 schrieb Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.com>>: >> >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> I'm just wondering. >> >> >> >> Would it work to have a package format based on Fuel? >> >> >> > I doubt it would work cross platform. I don't know how fuel serializes WideString, LargePositiveInteger, BoxedFloat64. These differ between smalltalk platforms. The source as string solves that. Strings are written as unicode string and numbers as certain number format etc. >> >> True. Cross dialect loading isnât something we encourage to do with Fuel. >> >> @Thierry >> You said something about partial loading: that will never be possible with Fuel because of its pickle format. To select any partial graph you have to first read the entire file and rebuild the graph first (ok, you donât strictly have to build the graph but you still need to read the entire file). >> >> Hi Max, you misunderstand what partial loading means in this context. I designed and implemented partial loading for the Parcel system in VW, and Fuel is essentially a clean reimplementation of parcels. The idea is that one does indeed read the entire object graph, but then only the parts of the graph that mate with the current class hierarchy are installed, and the bits that don't fit are stored for later. Why? So that a component can define extensions on classes in components that may not be present. Why? So that one can maintain a single logical component in a single package instead of decomposing it into independently loadable fragments. > > Makes sense. Itâs just that I often get asked if it is possible to read / update only parts of a Fuel file, so I wanted to make it clear that that canât work. > > Right, good point. But is there a use case? For example, in effect is there a difference between being able to patch a part of a Fuel file and loading that file into an image (possibly automatically), patching the object graph and saving a new version? Yes, performance seems to be the main use case. Fuel files of hundreds of MB take a long time to load and save, even if you only change a single string. One instance where this is relevant is the Moose model. They currently use .mse files, which use a textual representation (if Iâm not mistaken). Usman asked me if Fuel were an option, especially for updating only parts of the model. > >> Lets take an example like Fuel itself. This may have specialised marshalling and unmarshalling extensions defined on may classes, some of which may be to do with the GUI. If we have partial loading we can load Fuel into a headless image. The extensions on the GUI classes will simply not be installed, *until* we load the GUI. Hence Fuel does not have to be decomposed every time we factor the system into subcomponents. Without partial loading Fuel must be decomposed into a series of fragments so that it can load that part that fits into the headless base, and we have to manage teh dependency to ensure the fragment that loads against the GUI is loaded when the GUI is loaded. Worse still, if we cut the GUI into two (e.g. development vs deployment tools) we have to visit the Fuel GUI component (and potentially many other component) and decompose it into two pieces. In practice this is extremely costly to maintain, verging on chaos. With partial loading things are simple. >> >> Perhaps I should have called it partial installation, but you get the idea. > > Thanks for the explanation. > >> >> >> > >> > Norbert >> > >> >> Would that make loading faster? >> >> >> >> Does it already exist? >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> Thierry >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> best, >> Eliot > > > > > -- > best, > Eliot

Dec. 7, 2014

Spur Re: Repeatable VM crash

by Ben Coman

Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > yes, tests now are finishing without crash! > > https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/view/4.0-VM-Spur/job/Pharo-spur32-tests > > now that we are ready yet, but almost there :) > > Esteban > Great to hear you are getting close. cheers -ben

Dec. 7, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Repeatable VM crash

by Esteban Lorenzano

yes, tests now are finishing without crash! https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/view/4.0-VM-Spur/job/Pharo-spur32-tests now that we are ready yet, but almost there :) Esteban > On 06 Dec 2014, at 22:57, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Esteban, > > plausibly the fix to the latest VM might fix your crash. You might test? Fingers crossed. > > On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 11:26 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>> wrote: > yes, but the first step is to be sure you have the latest vm version :) > > Esteban > > >> On 05 Dec 2014, at 22:37, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com <mailto:eliot.miranda@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Hi Hilaire, >> >> can you try and concoct an image that crashes from start-up without operator intervention? What I mean is that if the expression that crashes is the one you give then in a workspace evaluate >> >> Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: true. >> (CGDonator firstname: 'Eric' lastname: 'Dupont') = (CGParticipant firstname: 'Eric' lastname: 'Dupont') >> >> and then run the saved image. If it crashes then its really easy to debug because it will be repeatable. If one has to interact with the image debugging is much more difficult. >> >> On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 1:07 PM, Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu <mailto:hilaire@drgeo.eu>> wrote: >> Hi again, >> >> I must add it occurs from a test or when comparing something like this >> in the Workspace: >> >> (CGDonator firstname: 'Eric' lastname: 'Dupont') = (CGParticipant >> firstname: 'Eric' lastname: 'Dupont') >> >> I get a false returned value printed in the Workspace, then VM crash. >> >> Thanks >> >> Hilaire >> >> >> Le 05/12/2014 21:35, Hilaire a Ã©crit : >> > When playing with equality in a class hierarchy I have repeatable VM crash. >> > It is today Pharo VM 3.9-7 from Jenkins and Pharo3. >> > >> > Am I using an out of date VM? >> > >> > Crashdump enclosed >> > >> > Hilaire >> > >> > >> >> >> -- >> Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu <http://drgeo.eu/> >> iStoa - http://istoa.drgeo.eu <http://istoa.drgeo.eu/> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> best, >> Eliot > > > > > -- > best, > Eliot

Dec. 7, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Little feature for ConfigurationBrowser

by Torsten Bergmann

Hi Stef, what do you mean? A menu in the config browser to add the repos in MC Browser? I would rather see that each MetaRepoForPharoXX is be default listed as a repo in MC browser. Then you just need to use the "Copy" function of MC browsers to push your config. Thx T. > Gesendet: Samstag, 06. Dezember 2014 um 17:06 Uhr > Von: stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> > An: "Pharo Development List" <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> > Betreff: [Pharo-dev] Little feature for ConfigurationBrowser > > Hi T. > > would it be possible to get a menu that creates the repo in the MC > Browser from the ConfigurationBrowser > like that people will be able to push their configuration without having > to create all the repo manually? > > Stef > >

Dec. 7, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Repeatable VM crash

by Hilaire

I download this one http://www.mirandabanda.org/files/Cog/VM/VM.r3164/coglinux-14.48.3164.tgz and the crash is still there. Attached crash dump. Thanks Hilaire Le 06/12/2014 22:57, Eliot Miranda a Ã©crit : > Hi Esteban, > > plausibly the fix to the latest VM might fix your crash. You might > test? Fingers crossed. > > On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 11:26 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com > <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>> wrote: > > yes, but the first step is to be sure you have the latest vm version :) > > Esteban -- Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu iStoa - http://istoa.drgeo.eu

Dec. 7, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Duration year

by Hilaire

Hi, What is ChaltÃ©n please? Hilaire Le 02/12/2014 20:53, Maximiliano Taborda a Ã©crit : > Hi all. > > The same examples using ChaltÃ©n: > February twentyninth, 2012 next: 1 yearMeasure. "=> February > 28th, 2013" > March first, 2011 next: 1 yearMeasure. "=> March 1st, 2012" > March first, 2011 next: 12 monthsMeasure. "=> March 1st, 2012" > > Hilaire, In ChaltÃ©n a year is a year so you don't need to care about of > the number of days in it. > > Regards. > Maxi > -- Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu iStoa - http://istoa.drgeo.eu

Dec. 7, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Vm-dev] [ANN] ARM Stack VMs available

by Ben Coman

J. Vuletich (mail lists) wrote: > > > Quoting Chris Muller <asqueaker(a)gmail.com>: > >> On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Eliot Miranda >> <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Juan, >>> >>> >>> On Dec 5, 2014, at 4:56 AM, "J. Vuletich (mail lists)" >>> <juanlists(a)jvuletich.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Folks, >>>> >>>> The Squeak process scheduler usually preempts a process only by >>>> another one of higher priority. And when the scheduler is ready to >>>> go back at the lower priority, it will always resume the same >>>> process that was last suspended. The only way for two or more >>>> processes of the same priority to share the processor is when the >>>> running process calls #wait or #yield. >>> >>> No. According to the blue book preempting sends the preempted process >>> to the back if its run queue so preempting forces a yield. Obviously >>> this is wrong, but that's the way it was defined. The ObjectWorks & >>> VisualWorks VMs changed this to work as you describe. >> >> Why is that wrong? By sending it to the back, one gets task-switching >> that acts like real "multitasking" as one would expect in a real >> multitasking system, without the developer having to put in explicit >> sends to #yield. Keeping it at the front "enables" multi-processing >> code to be developed incorrectly so that, one day, when it might ever >> get to a real multitasking environment, it won't work and it'll be >> harder to debug since by then its old and probably more complex. >> #yield is not a good synchronization tool.. > > Well, yes. But for that to work we'd need a highest priority process > that keeps sleeping for, lets say, 1 mSec, and does nothing. That way > all processes would be suspended and shuffled all the time. A few times I've seen the idea raised of moving process scheduling into the Image. This sounds interesting. For Pharo** I recently factored the delay scheduling event loop code out from Delay class side to its own DelayScheduler. Now actually I don't see any reason that new class needs to be tied only to Delays. It might also provide process scheduling. Where the VM currently decides which process to run, conceivably the /timingSemepahore/ could be signaled to wake up and decide which process to run next, then call back into the VM to dispatch the selected process. Having process scheduling in the VM would conceivably facilitate development of domain specific process scheduling - e.g. different for interactive UI, web servers, batch processing, robotics, control systems, real-time media. Also this would make a great environment for Computer Science courses to teach process scheduling algorithms. The following looks interesting, although I don't follow all of it... https://computeradventures.wordpress.com/tag/squeak-smalltalk-vm-scheduling/ > The way it is right now, this shuffling won't happen often, and ("bad") > code that assumes the behavior I described would work "most of the > time", breaking randomly, and more often on slower hardware (such as the > PI)... > > Is this worth doing? This "bad" code would fail all the time, and it > would be spotted and fixed. But we would break (a rather illusory) back > compatibility... Less of an issue for Pharo. Maybe this is something to consider for Pharo 5 ? cheers -ben > For instance, the code Ken is using for animating the > game cards (moving morphs around in a separate process) would break for > sure. But fixing it would also fix the issues he sees on the PI. It is > not hard to imagine that the same would happen to the sound problems Tim > found on Scratch on the PI...

Dec. 7, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Vm-dev] [ANN] ARM Stack VMs available

by J. Vuletich (mail lists)

Quoting Chris Muller <asqueaker(a)gmail.com>: > On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Eliot Miranda > <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hi Juan, >> >> >> On Dec 5, 2014, at 4:56 AM, "J. Vuletich (mail lists)" >> <juanlists(a)jvuletich.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi Folks, >>> >>> The Squeak process scheduler usually preempts a process only by >>> another one of higher priority. And when the scheduler is ready to >>> go back at the lower priority, it will always resume the same >>> process that was last suspended. The only way for two or more >>> processes of the same priority to share the processor is when the >>> running process calls #wait or #yield. >> >> No. According to the blue book preempting sends the preempted process >> to the back if its run queue so preempting forces a yield. Obviously >> this is wrong, but that's the way it was defined. The ObjectWorks & >> VisualWorks VMs changed this to work as you describe. > > Why is that wrong? By sending it to the back, one gets task-switching > that acts like real "multitasking" as one would expect in a real > multitasking system, without the developer having to put in explicit > sends to #yield. Keeping it at the front "enables" multi-processing > code to be developed incorrectly so that, one day, when it might ever > get to a real multitasking environment, it won't work and it'll be > harder to debug since by then its old and probably more complex. > #yield is not a good synchronization tool.. Well, yes. But for that to work we'd need a highest priority process that keeps sleeping for, lets say, 1 mSec, and does nothing. That way all processes would be suspended and shuffled all the time. The way it is right now, this shuffling won't happen often, and ("bad") code that assumes the behavior I described would work "most of the time", breaking randomly, and more often on slower hardware (such as the PI)... Is this worth doing? This "bad" code would fail all the time, and it would be spotted and fixed. But we would break (a rather illusory) back compatibility... For instance, the code Ken is using for animating the game cards (moving morphs around in a separate process) would break for sure. But fixing it would also fix the issues he sees on the PI. It is not hard to imagine that the same would happen to the sound problems Tim found on Scratch on the PI... Cheers, Juan Vuletich

Dec. 7, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Monticello and Fuel

by Eliot Miranda

Hi Max, On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 1:43 AM, Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On 06 Dec 2014, at 04:37, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 11:35 PM, Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> > On 05 Dec 2014, at 08:02, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> Am 04.12.2014 um 23:31 schrieb Thierry Goubier < >> thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com>: >> >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> I'm just wondering. >> >> >> >> Would it work to have a package format based on Fuel? >> >> >> > I doubt it would work cross platform. I don't know how fuel serializes >> WideString, LargePositiveInteger, BoxedFloat64. These differ between >> smalltalk platforms. The source as string solves that. Strings are written >> as unicode string and numbers as certain number format etc. >> >> True. Cross dialect loading isnât something we encourage to do with Fuel. >> >> @Thierry >> You said something about partial loading: that will never be possible >> with Fuel because of its pickle format. To select any partial graph you >> have to first read the entire file and rebuild the graph first (ok, you >> donât strictly have to build the graph but you still need to read the >> entire file). >> > > Hi Max, you misunderstand what partial loading means in this context. I > designed and implemented partial loading for the Parcel system in VW, and > Fuel is essentially a clean reimplementation of parcels. The idea is that > one does indeed read the entire object graph, but then only the parts of > the graph that mate with the current class hierarchy are installed, and the > bits that don't fit are stored for later. Why? So that a component can > define extensions on classes in components that may not be present. Why? > So that one can maintain a single logical component in a single package > instead of decomposing it into independently loadable fragments. > > > Makes sense. Itâs just that I often get asked if it is possible to read / > update only parts of a Fuel file, so I wanted to make it clear that that > canât work. > Right, good point. But is there a use case? For example, in effect is there a difference between being able to patch a part of a Fuel file and loading that file into an image (possibly automatically), patching the object graph and saving a new version? Lets take an example like Fuel itself. This may have specialised > marshalling and unmarshalling extensions defined on may classes, some of > which may be to do with the GUI. If we have partial loading we can load > Fuel into a headless image. The extensions on the GUI classes will simply > not be installed, *until* we load the GUI. Hence Fuel does not have to be > decomposed every time we factor the system into subcomponents. Without > partial loading Fuel must be decomposed into a series of fragments so that > it can load that part that fits into the headless base, and we have to > manage teh dependency to ensure the fragment that loads against the GUI is > loaded when the GUI is loaded. Worse still, if we cut the GUI into two > (e.g. development vs deployment tools) we have to visit the Fuel GUI > component (and potentially many other component) and decompose it into two > pieces. In practice this is extremely costly to maintain, verging on > chaos. With partial loading things are simple. > > Perhaps I should have called it partial installation, but you get the > idea. > > > Thanks for the explanation. > > > >> > >> > Norbert >> > >> >> Would that make loading faster? >> >> >> >> Does it already exist? >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> Thierry >> > >> >> >> > > > -- > best, > Eliot > > > -- best, Eliot

Dec. 7, 2014