- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

by kilon alios

My only objection was the documentation but since we cleared this up you have 100% my support , my faith and my trust. Frankly I have voiced several concerns with GTPlayground because there was things I was missing from workspace and you were prompt to fix those issues and fast and efficiently , I see no reason to doubt that your work will have a massive impact on pharo and will drive Pharo forward. Personally I love your style, because you are not just a coder its clear to me you have also an eye for good design. We may not agree at some decisions but still I cannot doubt that you take care of your design and understand the practical benefits of a good design. Concerning the name itself you can change it, we cant have progress without change and if the name has to go, the name has to go. Even if you did want to change the name just to credit youself my point is that you well deserve it, you worked hard for this, its your baby why the hell you should not name it whatever you want. I dont care about names I care about features, documentation and good designs. On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 11:53 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > Hi everyone, > > My intention was to have a discussion based on arguments and to ask for > permission to change something I believe in. If I give the impression that > I want to name for the sake of naming, I am sorry. And I am sorry I had to > disturb so many people with my infatuation. > > At the same time, I am also quite abated by the fact that too many people > look only at what exists and not invest trust in the commitment behind the > effort. > > I will stop responding to this thread now. > > Thanks for the feedback. > > Cheers, > Doru > > > > On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 9:30 PM, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand < > hernan.morales(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hello Doru, >> >> I think you have a new different implementation of the classic Workspace, >> for better or worst. >> >> The problem is everybody wants their tool be named as the highest >> taxonomic rank. Compare it with naming your cat as "Cat" and not as Siamese >> Felis Catus which is a specific breed. >> >> On the other side, what prevents for anyone else doing a "better"/new >> implementation and reclaiming the Workspace name? And this could happen >> every year? I don't know you but I get bored of seeing "I want that name" >> discussions. >> >> Workspace is a type of tool, it happens that there is an implementation >> which owned such name. It should be renamed as OldWorkspace, >> DeveloperWorkspace, ClassicWorkspace, or whatever. >> >> For me, Workspace in the World menu should display a sub-menu with both >> implementations. And community gains a place to display/register more >> implementations discriminated by its type. >> >> HernÃ¡n >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 2014-12-08 3:18 GMT-03:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: >> >> Hi, >>> >>> As you might see, the GTPlayground is called playground not workspace. >>> The main reason for this is that workspace implies the place where work is >>> done, and work is typically associated with creating code. >>> >>> This is not the intention of the workspace. >>> >>> Workspace also comes with a history that is associated with actual >>> implementations. While the current GTPlayground might appear to be similar >>> to the workspace, I think the way you can use the latter produces a >>> significant shift. >>> >>> Furthermore, I think the term playground is more inline with the idea of >>> "playing with live objects". And, in the future, the implementation will >>> likely evolve towards even more liveliness. >>> >>> It is for this reason that I would prefer that the World menu item gets >>> renamed to Playground. >>> >>> What do you think? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Doru >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> >>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>> >> >> > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow" >

Dec. 9, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

by Luc Fabresse

2014-12-09 11:06 GMT+01:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > > > On 08 Dec 2014, at 22:53, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > My intention was to have a discussion based on arguments and to ask for > permission to change something I believe in. If I give the impression that > I want to name for the sake of naming, I am sorry. And I am sorry I had to > disturb so many people with my infatuation. > > > > At the same time, I am also quite abated by the fact that too many > people look only at what exists and not invest trust in the commitment > behind the effort. > > > > I will stop responding to this thread now. > > OK, fair enough, but please don't stop what you are doing ;-) > +1000 IMO, I do not care of the name. Playground is good enough to me and Alex is right, next doc will be up to date. GTTools are innovatives and we must push them for a better and nicer Pharo. Obviously, we should also take care of not loosing good stuff from the existing tools and it is not the case here between Workspace and Playground. So thx Doru, and please keep pushing ;-) Luc > > > Thanks for the feedback. > > > > Cheers, > > Doru > > > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 9:30 PM, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand < > hernan.morales(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hello Doru, > > > > I think you have a new different implementation of the classic > Workspace, for better or worst. > > > > The problem is everybody wants their tool be named as the highest > taxonomic rank. Compare it with naming your cat as "Cat" and not as Siamese > Felis Catus which is a specific breed. > > > > On the other side, what prevents for anyone else doing a "better"/new > implementation and reclaiming the Workspace name? And this could happen > every year? I don't know you but I get bored of seeing "I want that name" > discussions. > > > > Workspace is a type of tool, it happens that there is an implementation > which owned such name. It should be renamed as OldWorkspace, > DeveloperWorkspace, ClassicWorkspace, or whatever. > > > > For me, Workspace in the World menu should display a sub-menu with both > implementations. And community gains a place to display/register more > implementations discriminated by its type. > > > > HernÃ¡n > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2014-12-08 3:18 GMT-03:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: > > > > Hi, > > > > As you might see, the GTPlayground is called playground not workspace. > The main reason for this is that workspace implies the place where work is > done, and work is typically associated with creating code. > > > > This is not the intention of the workspace. > > > > Workspace also comes with a history that is associated with actual > implementations. While the current GTPlayground might appear to be similar > to the workspace, I think the way you can use the latter produces a > significant shift. > > > > Furthermore, I think the term playground is more inline with the idea of > "playing with live objects". And, in the future, the implementation will > likely evolve towards even more liveliness. > > > > It is for this reason that I would prefer that the World menu item gets > renamed to Playground. > > > > What do you think? > > > > Cheers, > > Doru > > > > -- > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > > "Every thing has its own flow" > > > > > > > > > > -- > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > > "Every thing has its own flow" > > >

Dec. 9, 2014

Pillar latex generation

by Noury Bouraqadi

Hi, I'm experimenting with Pillar. I'm using a test.pillar file as input with the following content: !This is a title - item1 - item2 -item3 In a folder that contains only my test.pillar file, I generate latex version using the following command: pillar export --to=latex test.pier > test.tex The resulting test.tex is not conform to the template. In the template, there is some stuff including: \newcommand{\ct}[1]{{\sffamily\textup{#1}}} while in the generated test.tex file, I get \newcommand{\ct}[1]} Did I missed something? Noury

Dec. 9, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

> On 08 Dec 2014, at 22:53, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > My intention was to have a discussion based on arguments and to ask for permission to change something I believe in. If I give the impression that I want to name for the sake of naming, I am sorry. And I am sorry I had to disturb so many people with my infatuation. > > At the same time, I am also quite abated by the fact that too many people look only at what exists and not invest trust in the commitment behind the effort. > > I will stop responding to this thread now. OK, fair enough, but please don't stop what you are doing ;-) > Thanks for the feedback. > > Cheers, > Doru > > > > On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 9:30 PM, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand <hernan.morales(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hello Doru, > > I think you have a new different implementation of the classic Workspace, for better or worst. > > The problem is everybody wants their tool be named as the highest taxonomic rank. Compare it with naming your cat as "Cat" and not as Siamese Felis Catus which is a specific breed. > > On the other side, what prevents for anyone else doing a "better"/new implementation and reclaiming the Workspace name? And this could happen every year? I don't know you but I get bored of seeing "I want that name" discussions. > > Workspace is a type of tool, it happens that there is an implementation which owned such name. It should be renamed as OldWorkspace, DeveloperWorkspace, ClassicWorkspace, or whatever. > > For me, Workspace in the World menu should display a sub-menu with both implementations. And community gains a place to display/register more implementations discriminated by its type. > > HernÃ¡n > > > > > > > 2014-12-08 3:18 GMT-03:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: > > Hi, > > As you might see, the GTPlayground is called playground not workspace. The main reason for this is that workspace implies the place where work is done, and work is typically associated with creating code. > > This is not the intention of the workspace. > > Workspace also comes with a history that is associated with actual implementations. While the current GTPlayground might appear to be similar to the workspace, I think the way you can use the latter produces a significant shift. > > Furthermore, I think the term playground is more inline with the idea of "playing with live objects". And, in the future, the implementation will likely evolve towards even more liveliness. > > It is for this reason that I would prefer that the World menu item gets renamed to Playground. > > What do you think? > > Cheers, > Doru > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow" > > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow"

Dec. 9, 2014

Recognise Stack Exchange Sites by Their Icon

by Yuriy Tymchuk

Hi, Iâve found this code puzzle: http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/42242/recognise-stack-exchange-… <http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/42242/recognise-stack-exchange-…> Do you think it can be implemented in a nice way in Pharo? Because other implementations look hyper obfuscated. Uko

Dec. 9, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Duration year

by Chris Muller

> I was working on a GenericYear that was intended to be used for DateAndTime > calculus - to be able to add and subtract an arbitrary number of years. The > class by itself would not know the days - it is an arbitrary (generic) Year. > > It would only know the number of days when it is added (or subtracted) from > an actual date (or timespan). The idea was that it would have a very > specific and limited scope of responsibility. I liked it. Hopefully a few loose ends can be fixed up so it can be put into trunk.

Dec. 9, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [squeak-dev] Does Monticello try to install shared pools before methods using them?

by Eliot Miranda

Hi All, Hi Bert, On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 12:02 PM, Chris Muller <asqueaker(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I'm pretty sure the responsibility falls to the loader. I'm not too > familiar with it but if I wanted to be I would probably start tracing > from McVersionLoader. > +1. Craig, I thought that Monticello had been modified to load additions first, then changes, then removals. But when I read the code I can't see this sorting in trunk. Bert, what's your recollection? And if you agree that Monticello does this, where's the code? I see that MCPatch>>applyTo: doesn't do anything special and when it appears to collect its definitions in MCPatch>>initializeWithBase:target: there is no sorting going on. What am I missing? > > Do your pool references end up being valid? That is the most > important but I agree it would be an annoyance to see those messages > in the Transcript. > Hi Craig, > > On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 7:24 AM, Craig Latta <craig(a)netjam.org> wrote: > > > > Hoi-- > > > > I'm attempting to create a Monticello package which provides a > > shared pool (as a subclass of SharedPool) and methods which use its > > variables. On installation, does Monticello try to ensure that a pool is > > installed before methods which use it? When I install the package in a > > fresh system, I get messages on the Transcript complaining that shared > > variables are undefined. > As I said above I thought Monticello implemented that sensible load order of add, change, remove, in which case poll definitions should be included in additions, and before any methods. But I can't see where in current trunk this is happening. AFAIC, not loading in this order is a bug. We need as predictable aand useful a general load order as possible, and it should be straight-forward to arrange that pools are added early. > > > Is there some way one fiddles with the writing process, or with the > > package after it is written, to avoid ordering problems? > > > > > > thanks! > > > > -C > > > > -- > > Craig Latta > > netjam.org > > +31 6 2757 7177 (SMS ok) > > + 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS) > > > > > > -- best, Eliot

Dec. 8, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Esug-list] [Pharo-users] [ann] gtspotter: a moldable interface for spotting objects

by Tudor Girba

Thanks for the suggestions, Johan. I will change the text and we will definitely look into making the shortcuts more apparent. Cheers, Doru On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 5:17 PM, Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl> wrote: > > OK now I get it â¦ thanks for clarifying! > I think my confusion stems from the use of âcategory' and then talking > about 'the collection objectâ, which made me think about collections and > source code and protocols and packages and I got lost. > > I think that the sentence of the blog would be clearer like this > (uppercase to show changes): > > To do this, GTSpotter offers an extra action: diving in a RESULTS > category. Pressing Cmd+Shift+ArrowRight dives in the collection OF RESULTS > OF that category. Thus, we can continue refining the search inside the > category. > > So then, my suggestion for a legend at the bottom of the results list > would be: > Cmd+Shift+ArrowUp/ArrowDown = Next/Prev category, Cmd+RightArrow = Dive > into Result, Cmd+Shift+RightArrow = Dive into Category > > > On Dec 8, 2014, at 12:48, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Ok. Let's take it step by step and see if we cannot find a better way of > explaining. > > > > Take a look at the first picture in the blog post. Entering GTSpo shows > results both for Classes and for Packages. These "Classes" and "Packages" > are what we call search categories, and they have associated a query > processor that can populate them with results (see the "Spotting your > objects" section from the bottom of the post). > > > > In our case, we get 39 classes (of which only 5 are shown) and 1 package > that match the query. If you want to look at all those 39 classes, you can > dive in the whole collection behind the category in a separate step. This > is achieved through Cmd+Shift+ArrowRight. Does it make more sense now? > > > > I did not consider the category to be confusing. Would you propose > another name? > > > > Cheers, > > Doru > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl> > wrote: > > Sorry, but no :-( > > > > I am always confused when people say âcategoryâ because the word has so > many overloaded meanings. The same happens in the blog post, it is not > clear to me what category means here, and what does it have to do with the > collection object? > > > > > On Dec 7, 2014, at 11:16, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > Yes, we will still evolve the UI. At the very least you will get the > shortkeys directly on the actions. > > > > > > The answer to your question is in the blog post: > > > GTSpotter offers an extra action: diving in a category. Pressing > Cmd+Shift+ArrowRight dives in the collection object containing only the > items from that category. Thus, we can continue refining the search inside > the category. > > > > > > So, you will open the collection of that sub-category and you will see > more items at once (not just 5). Is it clearer now? > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Doru > > > > > > > > ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- > > > > Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry > > PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile > > > > > > > > > > -- > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > > "Every thing has its own flow" > > > > ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- > > Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry > PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Dec. 8, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] Investigating MultiByteFileStream for adding tests

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

> On 08 Dec 2014, at 22:27, sheridan(a)sheridan-mahoney.com wrote: > > Hi, > I've been looking into MultiByteFileStream for adding tests in this area, and have come up against what appears to me to be an anomaly. I ran the following 4 tests: > > > FileStream fileNamed: 'test.txt' > do: [ :str | str > nextPutAll: '123'; > crlf ]. > > MultiByteFileStream fileNamed: 'test2.txt' > do: [ :str | str > nextPutAll: '123'; > crlf ]. > > FileStream fileNamed: 'test3.txt' > do: [ :str | str > nextPutAll: 'Ã©lÃ¨ve en FranÃ§ais'; > crlf ]. > > MultiByteFileStream fileNamed: 'test4.txt' > do: [ :str | str > nextPutAll: 'Ã©lÃ¨ve en FranÃ§ais'; > crlf ]. > > > The results are: > > Input string Result Unix File > Class Class Type > --------------------------------------------------------------- > FileStream '123' MultiByte- ASCII text > FileStream > > MultiByte- '123' MultiByte- ASCII text > FileStream FileStream > > FileStream 'Ã©lÃ¨ve en MultiByte- UTF-8 Unicode > FranÃ§ais' FileStream > > MultiByte- 'Ã©lÃ¨ve en MultiByte- UTF-8 Unicode > FileStream FranÃ§ais' FileStream > > > Do operations involving FileStream as input always return a MultiByteFileStream? Yes. They also use UTF-8 by default (ASCII is a proper subset of UTF-8). > Thanks, > Sheridan >

Dec. 8, 2014

Re: [Pharo-dev] playground vs workspace

by Tudor Girba

Hi everyone, My intention was to have a discussion based on arguments and to ask for permission to change something I believe in. If I give the impression that I want to name for the sake of naming, I am sorry. And I am sorry I had to disturb so many people with my infatuation. At the same time, I am also quite abated by the fact that too many people look only at what exists and not invest trust in the commitment behind the effort. I will stop responding to this thread now. Thanks for the feedback. Cheers, Doru On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 9:30 PM, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand < hernan.morales(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hello Doru, > > I think you have a new different implementation of the classic Workspace, > for better or worst. > > The problem is everybody wants their tool be named as the highest > taxonomic rank. Compare it with naming your cat as "Cat" and not as Siamese > Felis Catus which is a specific breed. > > On the other side, what prevents for anyone else doing a "better"/new > implementation and reclaiming the Workspace name? And this could happen > every year? I don't know you but I get bored of seeing "I want that name" > discussions. > > Workspace is a type of tool, it happens that there is an implementation > which owned such name. It should be renamed as OldWorkspace, > DeveloperWorkspace, ClassicWorkspace, or whatever. > > For me, Workspace in the World menu should display a sub-menu with both > implementations. And community gains a place to display/register more > implementations discriminated by its type. > > HernÃ¡n > > > > > > > 2014-12-08 3:18 GMT-03:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: > > Hi, >> >> As you might see, the GTPlayground is called playground not workspace. >> The main reason for this is that workspace implies the place where work is >> done, and work is typically associated with creating code. >> >> This is not the intention of the workspace. >> >> Workspace also comes with a history that is associated with actual >> implementations. While the current GTPlayground might appear to be similar >> to the workspace, I think the way you can use the latter produces a >> significant shift. >> >> Furthermore, I think the term playground is more inline with the idea of >> "playing with live objects". And, in the future, the implementation will >> likely evolve towards even more liveliness. >> >> It is for this reason that I would prefer that the World menu item gets >> renamed to Playground. >> >> What do you think? >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" >> > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Dec. 8, 2014