- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo on Centos/RHEL/ 7.1

by phil＠highoctane.be

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:08 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > philippeback wrote > > centos 6.5 is fine for rhel6. those are clones. > > Do you know if that's true in general for the entire RedHat family (e.g. > Fedora)? Or for other families? E.g. Debian/Ubuntu/Mint? > I do not use Fedora, so I do not know. Usually Fedora is the leading edge while CentOS/RHEL are the stable things that are maintained for a long time. Debian/Ubuntu/Mint: They are all debian based but that doesn't mean that they are aligned. So, I do not know about those. Phil > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Pharo-on-Centos-RHEL-7-1-tp4821602p4821623.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > >

April 24, 2015

Issue 15394: (Launcher) Safer Image Deletion

by Sean P. DeNigris

https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?15394 Especially as we move to push the launcher as the default download for new users, this will be crucial. Right now, we are deleting via an `rm -fr` like approach, which is quite harsh for a GUI tool, especially when deleting an image, which is akin to an operating system. It would be better to remove the confirmation dialog and move the image to the trash, with an undo if possible. ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Issue-15394-Launcher-Safer-Image-Deletion-tp4821635.h… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

April 24, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Release with Dark Theme

by kilon alios

to find in the end that you get .... what you pay for ;) On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 4:43 PM Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > icon design and web design are two very different things. > I seriously doubt we can get the icon set we need as cheap as you might > think. > > butâ¦ we can always try :) > > Esteban > > On 24 Apr 2015, at 14:55, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > > > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 2:33 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > >> >> >> Le 24/4/15 11:06, phil(a)highoctane.be a Ã©crit : >> >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 9:45 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> >> wrote: >> >>> That's a bit harsh, the fonts are the same ;-) >>> And it is of course possible that you don't like it, it is a matter of >>> taste. >>> The contrast thing is also taste, but for some people it solve certain >>> vision problems. >>> >>> Exactly. >> When you have floaters all day long, the last thing you want is a f*cking >> white screen. >> >> Now, I am using 3.0 with DawnTheme, which is more like SublimeText (in a >> 3.0). >> >> I tried the 4.0 and it is nice. Now, icons should get a pass because the >> artefacts on the edges are not nice. >> >> If there is some little petty cash available, that's the kind of job that >> can be done supercheap on something like https://en.99designs.be/. That >> would be good use of consortium/association money for example. >> >> Why bother with graphics work when you can get things done professionaly >> for close to nil? >> >> >> do you know the people? >> Because I would really be in favor getting people doing this job. >> > > This is a large community. > > One can get a full website design done for around $500. > Got that done and was nice work. > > Alternatives (used too): https://www.freelancer.com/ > > Phil > >> >> >> Phil >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> > On 24 Apr 2015, at 09:27, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: >>> > >>> > That's funny because I tried it two days ago the first time and I >>> didn't like it. I had troubles to get anything but bitmap fonts. After >>> setting all things up I was a bit disappointed that contrast wise it >>> doesn't work for me. Can someone send a screenshot with one setup that >>> he/she considers good? >>> > >>> > thanks, >>> > >>> > Norbert >>> > >>> >> Am 24.04.2015 um 08:38 schrieb Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com >>> >: >>> >> >>> >> I disagreeâ¦ DarkTheme is just for certain tastes, while regular one, >>> while probably dated, is more âstandardâ. >>> >> Also, DarkTheme is not ready. yeah, yeahâ¦ it works and works fine >>> most of the timeâ¦ but not *all* the time (take for example find string >>> dialogâ¦ I never found the time to fix it, and nobody complained soâ¦ :P). >>> Finally. we need to adopt SVG icons (in my TODO list since a couple of >>> months, I will deliver soon, I hope), otherwise they do not look good (this >>> is a problem eclipse itself had itâ¦ we are just inheriting it :) ) >>> >> >>> >> But a good question would be: How can we push forward our UI, besides >>> using a darker or clearer theme? >>> >> I would like to hear some opinions here :) >>> >> >>> >> Esteban >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>> On 24 Apr 2015, at 08:33, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> comments about color is to be taken with care. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Le 24/4/15 02:48, Sean P. DeNigris a Ã©crit : >>> >>>> Why didn't/don't we make it the default for 4.0? Everyone seems to >>> love it, >>> >>>> and people are commenting that the UI looks dated. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> ----- >>> >>>> Cheers, >>> >>>> Sean >>> >>>> -- >>> >>>> View this message in context: >>> http://forum.world.st/Release-with-Dark-Theme-tp4821496.html >>> >>>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at >>> Nabble.com. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> >>> > >>> > >> >> >

April 24, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Small ScreenTheme [was: Release with Dark Theme]

by Thierry Goubier

Le 24/04/2015 15:44, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : > you are asking for a different kind of IDE, not a theme. > but yesâ¦ we need some way to allow that :) But we do. It is allways possible to write and adapt a new IDE better suited to this or that screen size, and replace the default tools :) Now, doing it is a bit of work ;) Thierry > > Esteban > >> On 24 Apr 2015, at 10:19, Nicolas Anquetil <Nicolas.Anquetil(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> >> >> In a related domain, I am launching a petition for a SmallScreenTheme >> >> People are working on 13" laptops, soon we will program pharo on tablets >> >> The default themes are a total waste of screen space with huge borders everywhere, large fonts, white spaces (or grey spaces) in the browser, ... >> >> I tried to work on one in the past, but did not go very far (only smaller fonts=8 and tighter scrollbars). >> Buttons need to be shrinked drastically, morphs in morphs in morphs all have borders 4 pixels wide, ... >> >> nicolas >> >> On 24/04/2015 01:48, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: >>> Why didn't/don't we make it the default for 4.0? Everyone seems to love it, >>> and people are commenting that the UI looks dated. >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- >>> Cheers, >>> Sean >>> -- >>> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Release-with-Dark-Theme-tp4821496.html >>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>> >> >> > > > >

April 24, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] GitHub CI organization

by Esteban Lorenzano

because they are not CI, they can be used outside too. and in a more âdeepâ answer: because they all born in different moments :) Esteban > On 24 Apr 2015, at 14:43, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > > I may be missing something, but why are pharo-build-scripts and > pharo-minimal-scripts not in the pharo-ci repository? > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/GitHub-CI-organization-tp4821620.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

April 24, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Small ScreenTheme [was: Release with Dark Theme]

by Esteban Lorenzano

you are asking for a different kind of IDE, not a theme. but yesâ¦ we need some way to allow that :) Esteban > On 24 Apr 2015, at 10:19, Nicolas Anquetil <Nicolas.Anquetil(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > > In a related domain, I am launching a petition for a SmallScreenTheme > > People are working on 13" laptops, soon we will program pharo on tablets > > The default themes are a total waste of screen space with huge borders everywhere, large fonts, white spaces (or grey spaces) in the browser, ... > > I tried to work on one in the past, but did not go very far (only smaller fonts=8 and tighter scrollbars). > Buttons need to be shrinked drastically, morphs in morphs in morphs all have borders 4 pixels wide, ... > > nicolas > > On 24/04/2015 01:48, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: >> Why didn't/don't we make it the default for 4.0? Everyone seems to love it, >> and people are commenting that the UI looks dated. >> >> >> >> ----- >> Cheers, >> Sean >> -- >> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Release-with-Dark-Theme-tp4821496.html >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> > >

April 24, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Release with Dark Theme

by Esteban Lorenzano

icon design and web design are two very different things. I seriously doubt we can get the icon set we need as cheap as you might think. butâ¦ we can always try :) Esteban > On 24 Apr 2015, at 14:55, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > > > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 2:33 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote: > > > Le 24/4/15 11:06, phil(a)highoctane.be <mailto:phil@highoctane.be> a Ã©crit : >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 9:45 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu <mailto:sven@stfx.eu>> wrote: >> That's a bit harsh, the fonts are the same ;-) >> And it is of course possible that you don't like it, it is a matter of taste. >> The contrast thing is also taste, but for some people it solve certain vision problems. >> >> Exactly. >> When you have floaters all day long, the last thing you want is a f*cking white screen. >> >> Now, I am using 3.0 with DawnTheme, which is more like SublimeText (in a 3.0). >> >> I tried the 4.0 and it is nice. Now, icons should get a pass because the artefacts on the edges are not nice. >> >> If there is some little petty cash available, that's the kind of job that can be done supercheap on something like https://en.99designs.be/ <https://en.99designs.be/>. That would be good use of consortium/association money for example. >> >> Why bother with graphics work when you can get things done professionaly for close to nil? > > do you know the people? > Because I would really be in favor getting people doing this job. > > This is a large community. > > One can get a full website design done for around $500. > Got that done and was nice work. > > Alternatives (used too): https://www.freelancer.com/ <https://www.freelancer.com/> > > Phil > >> >> Phil >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > On 24 Apr 2015, at 09:27, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name <mailto:norbert@hartl.name>> wrote: >> > >> > That's funny because I tried it two days ago the first time and I didn't like it. I had troubles to get anything but bitmap fonts. After setting all things up I was a bit disappointed that contrast wise it doesn't work for me. Can someone send a screenshot with one setup that he/she considers good? >> > >> > thanks, >> > >> > Norbert >> > >> >> Am 24.04.2015 um 08:38 schrieb Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>>: >> >> >> >> I disagreeâ¦ DarkTheme is just for certain tastes, while regular one, while probably dated, is more âstandardâ. >> >> Also, DarkTheme is not ready. yeah, yeahâ¦ it works and works fine most of the timeâ¦ but not *all* the time (take for example find string dialogâ¦ I never found the time to fix it, and nobody complained soâ¦ :P). Finally. we need to adopt SVG icons (in my TODO list since a couple of months, I will deliver soon, I hope), otherwise they do not look good (this is a problem eclipse itself had itâ¦ we are just inheriting it :) ) >> >> >> >> But a good question would be: How can we push forward our UI, besides using a darker or clearer theme? >> >> I would like to hear some opinions here :) >> >> >> >> Esteban >> >> >> >> >> >>> On 24 Apr 2015, at 08:33, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> comments about color is to be taken with care. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Le 24/4/15 02:48, Sean P. DeNigris a Ã©crit : >> >>>> Why didn't/don't we make it the default for 4.0? Everyone seems to love it, >> >>>> and people are commenting that the UI looks dated. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> ----- >> >>>> Cheers, >> >>>> Sean >> >>>> -- >> >>>> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Release-with-Dark-Theme-tp4821496.html <http://forum.world.st/Release-with-Dark-Theme-tp4821496.html> >> >>>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >

April 24, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] GitHub CI organization

by Sean P. DeNigris

EstebanLM wrote > because they are not CI, they can be used outside too. Ah, okay. Thanks for the clarification :) EstebanLM wrote > and in a more âdeepâ answer: because they all born in different moments :) Yes, that's more what I was getting at. Our GitHub organization is flourishing, but possibly getting a bit overwhelming and I was wondering if we could unify some of the related repos... ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/GitHub-CI-organization-tp4821620p4821630.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

April 24, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo on Centos/RHEL/ 7.1

by Sean P. DeNigris

nacho wrote > I noticed that in Pharo's homepage now there is a link to a Centos build. > However, the necessary 32bits libs are not mentioned. For now, I put a NB with a link to the 64-bit prep instructions on our GNU/Linux download page [1]. For the known cases, I wonder if the best course wouldn't be to bundle the VMs with a prep64bit.sh e.g. Philippe already has such a script and it seems we could just inject it into the CI build. nacho wrote > Or at least inside the README.txt that comes in the zip. Unless we can do that programmatically, I'm hesitant to put anything more than a link to [1], because it will be duplicated logic e.g. probably always out of date! In general, it seems there is already a good deal of duplication out there as many of use have rolled our own 32-bit solutions. We're in the process of bringing these under Pharo's GitHub organization, and I'm calling for anyone with a working solution to add it to https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-workingRoadmaps/blob/master/Download… . It's hard for me to manage all these great contributions via the mailing list :/ Here's what we've accomplished so far: - the method for different platforms leaves you with different products (e.g. Ubuntu -> Launcher, but Debian -> VM-only). [SOLVED]: The downloads were standardized and categorized - default is vm+image.zip for all platforms, other options (e.g. launcher or vm-only) were made explicit - the instructions at http://pharo.org/download are incomplete (e.g. Debian step 2.i.a below)[SOLVED]: We gave the website GNU/Linux instructions a massive overhaul. See http://pharo.org/gnu-linux-installation - Old Lib C downloads out of date: http://files.pharo.org/vm/pharo/linux/old-libc/ last pharovm-ubuntu804.tar.gz is from 8/28/2013, but most recent swing buld is from 9/2014.[SOLVED]: We now have our own libc < 2.15 CI build, with artifacts mirrored to files.pharo.org, and linked from the website - Can we pick up the debian artifact from the Debian build and create a launcher on our CI with it? [SOLVED]: We now have our own libc < 2.15 CI build, with artifacts mirrored to files.pharo.org, and linked - [SOLVED]: Link Launcher instructions to the Launcher tutorial. - [SOLVED]: Remove all GNU/Linux instructions from the main download page. Instead, when a user clicks on the Linux button, they should be taken to a whole different page that explains the intricacies of each platform. - [SOLVED]: put a clear heading for each GNU/Linux flavor (e.g. ###Debian instead of "Looking for a debian distribution?") - [SOLVED]: [OT]: Change all references to Linux -> GNU/Linux. See https://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html#why [1] http://pharo.org/gnu-linux-installation#64-bit-System-Setup ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-on-Centos-RHEL-7-1-tp4821602p4821628.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

April 24, 2015

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo on Centos/RHEL/ 7.1

by phil＠highoctane.be

centos 6.5 is fine for rhel6. those are clones. centos is built from the same sourcetree has rhel. the pictures are different but the code is the same. havent tested on 7. phil Le 24 avr. 2015 15:02, "Sean P. DeNigris" <sean(a)clipperadams.com> a Ã©crit : > nacho wrote > > I noticed that in Pharo's homepage now there is a link to a Centos build. > > However, the necessary 32bits libs are not mentioned. > > Thanks! I was holding off on this because there are several such lists out > there and I'm not sure which apply to which platforms. For example, > > https://github.com/philippeback/pharovm-centos65/blob/master/packages-to-in… > is a very different list for Centos65. IIRC now after some info from > Philippe, a list of libraries for CentOS should work for all RedHat-based > distributions, right? Except what about versions e.g. is the list the same > in CentOS 6.5 vs. 7.1? And if not how does one map that to versions of e.g. > RHEL? > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Pharo-on-Centos-RHEL-7-1-tp4821602p4821621.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > >

April 24, 2015